Video games are powerful learning tools, according to research presented at the annual convention of the American Psychological Association in Boston.
As reported by the Associated Press, researchers presented findings that games can help kids solve problems and make surgeons better at stitching up their patients. From the AP:
"The single best predictor of [surgeon's] skills is how much they had played video games in the past and how much they played now," said Iowa State University psychologist Douglas Gentile. "Those were better predictors of surgical skills than years of training and number of surgeries performed," Gentile said. "So the first question you might ask your surgeon is how many of these [surgeries] have you done and the second question is, 'Are you a gamer?'"
One study even explored whether World of Warcraft improves scientific thinking.
Researchers looked at a random sample of [WoW] 2,000 discussion posts... The study found the game encouraged scientific thinking, like using systems and models for understanding situations and using math and testing to investigate a problem.
The vast majority of those participating in the discussion posts, 86 percent, shared knowledge to solve problems and more than half, 58 percent, used systematic and evaluative processes, researchers found.
The forums show that gamers are "creating an environment in which informal scientific reasoning practices are being learned" by playing the online games, said Sean Duncan, a researcher at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.
Not all was sweetness and light in regards to video game research, however, as the AP article points out:
Other studies confirmed earlier research that found students who played violent games tended to be more hostile, less forgiving and believed violence to be normal compared to those who played nonviolent games.
Comments
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
He's probably JT. I don't think he has a single supporter in the world other than those in Utah.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
more like "check and mate"
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
you're the shameful one, worshipping a false prophet.
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
6/10
I've seen better.
Nevermind the psychobable
Where can I get a poster of the article picture, now that is cool.
-ConstantNeophyte: always the newb, ALWAYS.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
I've often wondered how "gamers = braindead" manages to hold water. Let us look at the facts:
Game developers play games. They live games. They also make games. These moronic idiots who can't even scrape together two halves of a frontal lobe write physics simulators to model the effects of gravity and impact on hundreds of objects at once, develop risk/reward mechanics capable of maintaining the player's interest over months of gaming, construct realistic worlds from an infinite void, and then write render engines capable of showing the whole thing in near-realistic glory 70 times per second. They then manage to drum up marketing campaigns and sell millions.
Gamers play games. They sit in front of closed black-box systems and analyse how they work. They learn how much they can gamble on a particular strategy. They form complex mental databases to consider the cause and effect of every possible move in the game. They learn which sword to equip in order to create the best character for the party and can rapidly change tactics over the course of five seconds. On message boards, they group together and crunch numbers in order to farm the best drops and shave milliseconds off lap times. They can discern friend from foe in 0.2s and then thread a bullet through his head 0.1s later using two thumbsticks and a button.
No wonder Jack is so scared. Games are training us to be better strategists with faster reactions, lightning mental arithmetic and thumbs that could subdue a mountain lion from 30 paces.
Question gamers' morals all you want, Jack, but the ability to rationalise information is what gaming is all about.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
I really want to believe this post was steeped in sarcasm, aside from the JBT comment (if it was really him). Mind you I like my games. Am all but an addict to my games. But playing them would not make a better surgeon, mechanic (or lawyer, thanks for the proof jackie) etc. Online games/MMORPGs do tend to encourage (but not demand and rarely reward) teamwork and rational thought, bBut hey so does real life. Kind of punchs holes in the withdrawn from society, living the basement sterotype attached to gamers.
Want to get better at a thing? Practice that thing. Do it over and over, get it right, rinse and repeat. Simulating it just does not have the same impact or effect. Holding a controller and pushing "A" does not even teach you have to carry, care for, load, fire or stow a firearm. And firearm safety is pretty basic compared to trying to reduce trauma to the human body or even trying to reduce a fracture.
Sorry but I would not sooner risk my life at the hands of a virtually trained doctor than I would salute a closet gamer lawyer wannabe like jackie. Games are entertainment and there is a time for such but Real Life take priority. If nothing else to hold a job to bring in the money to pay for said games.
Mental note to never have surgery in Iowa.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Erm, I'm not quite sure that anyone's suggesting that we can train up a surgeon through virtual simulation training only. However, when a surgeon is trying to get better or is learning, a comprehensive training programme which includes actual practice, theoretical training and simulations would be far more effective than say, a programme which only has practice and theoretical training. The benefits are twofold.
Firstly, simulations provide a platform for "image training" where surgeons can go through the paces of the procedures in their heads while getting a better feel of using their hands in delicate movements. Secondly, simulations allow them to refine their movements without them relying on the resistance of flesh to guide their movements.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
If jack wanted to get rid of all violent media, then that would mean he'd have to turn his crusade against something he loves, the bible. the bible has encouraged violence 4 the past thousands of years, started wars, and has killed more ppl than World war 1 and world war 2 put together
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
while I do agree, I don't understand why you copied and pasted my sig. After all, the Kanji character happens to be the meaning of my birthname translated into Japanese.
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
sorry about that, i was doing the ace beat jack thing, not the insignia,
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
ah, that makes sense. I hate it when the text selection thingy jumps from space to space.
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
If he's going to do that he'd have to go after movies and TV which would have gotten him disbarred years ago given how he acts toward gamers.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Agreed your still going to be penniless and now a crippled bitch.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Oh go away Thompson, no one likes you and you fail at life!
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
To be scrupulously fair, we shouldn't use the "Correlation != Causation" when it comes to discussing violence in relation to video games, then gloss over it when more favorable effects are considered.
We should consider, for example, the possibility that the modeling and mathematical analysis threads related to online games tend to be started and participated in by people who are already inclined to be interested in math. The game provides an opportunity to exercise that interest, which is a good thing, but doesn't necessarily create that interest in the majority of participants. Some players who are only interested in the beneficial results to their characters will learn a little tangentially, and a few will learn a lot and possibly develop an interest in the methods used for their own sake. We should not blindly assume that the last group is in the majority, however.
Similarly, surgery requires substantial manual dexterity, and so do many games. It seems logical that dexterous individuals would be drawn to both, so overlap is not unlikely. That's not to say that playing video games doesn't exercise that dexterity in beneficial ways, just that some people can be expected to excel at both activities because they both draw on some of the same natural talents.
I agree that games are useful learning tools, and generally beneficial to most players. I just don't think we should stoop to the cherry-picking tactics our opposition uses all too often.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Jack, by your own logic you have no life, due to the excessive amount of time you waste on this site. You've commented, what...3 times already in this topic? And you say "gamers" (I hate that word) are pathetic.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Hey, Dennis, I'm receiving apologies today in light of what is in this same report:
"Video game skeptics, take note, the news wasn't all good. Other studies confirmed earlier research that found students who played violent games tended to be more hostile, less forgiving and believed violence to be normal compared to those who played nonviolent games."
Please send money to the Jack Thompson Is Always Right, Damn It Foundation, at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington DC. Thanks!
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Rather you should send your own appologies to the APA for, as they themselves have told you, once again misrepresenting one of their studies.
But lets look over your failure in basic logic:
Other studies confirmed earlier research that found students who played violent games [b]tended[/b] to be more hostile, less forgiving and believed violence to be normal compared to those who played nonviolent games."
You see there that they weren't drawing any sort of causative effect. They observed that the people who had violent tendencies played violent games. What you have there is a correlation. To dumb it down for you say you went to the beach with 99 other people. Now lets say that these people were told to dress in either blue or red swim suits. Then afterwards when you take a census of these people and it turns out that those wore red swim suits were much more likely to have a criminal record than those without it does not mean that red shorts cause people to commit crimes.
Now another point that you likely don't have the mental capacity to understand:
Now lets for instance take a person who is violent and has a criminal record but has never played a single video game. Now say that same person is going to buy their first game system and game. Do you think that this angry and violent person is going to play Grand Theft Auto, or Barbie Horse Adventures?
Have you ever, for a single moment, considered the fact that perhaps people play games based on their personality rather than the games actively altering their personality? In short, violent people like violent media.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
How many of ythose apologies are from yourself?
You have until I finish this post to give your answer
All of them? Alright then
As if you would accept apologies anyway...
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Um... why are you saying that as if he didn't report it, Jack? It's right at the end of the freaking PAGE.
Shouldn't you be trying avoid something like, oh, i don't know... Hurricane Fay that's hurdling straight towards your state?! It'd be step towards actually trying to save your own career.
That phrase you quoted doesn't prove a 'direct causal link.' Not court on the face of the earth will see it as such. Only a super-ego as big as yours will.
David "DavCube" Gagnon, Mature Human Being, and You're Not.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
doesn't help you any, since you're out to ban all games.
After all, there are gamers who play only nonviolent games, and you scorn them too.
oh, and that quote also applies to violent movies, television, and books including the bible
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
GO back to watching Teletubbies and stop annoying us. At least write something funny.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Doing some fund raising for that $43000 you'll end up paying the Bar eh?
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Dr. Gentile, by the way, is a Dr. David Walsh colleague at Media and the Family, so he benefits from Best Buy funding. Nice disclosure, Dennis. Jack Thompson
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Hey Thompson. No one cares. Stop spamming.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
The conspiracy! You see them everywhere, don't you?
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Of course they're powerful learning tools. I've been saying that on 230 national and international television programs for nine years now. That's what makes them so DANGEROUS, nitwits.
Apparently video game play can't increase one's IQ, however, as this site proves.
Jack Thompson
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
...too bad my IQ is 143 and I have been playing video games my whole life buddy...starting with the Atari 2600...
What is yours again? Oh yeah, somewhere around average, plus you have a psychological problem, and while being disbarred you should be required to go through psychological examination.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
I'm not surprised that Jack Thompson once again puts a negative twist to a positive or neutral conclusion to a video game study. To Jack Thompson, video games that teach means they only teach people destructive activities.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
I have no idea how to ride a motocross bike, much less do stunts on one.
Try again
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Jack, everything can be learned from. But you can't force someone to actually do the learning. See every highschool ever. You can learn from those classes but that doesn't mean people aren't going to refuse to do so. Learning from something does not mean you are going to use the information you've obtained. That's where those pesky things called morals come into play. I say pesky because they keep getting in your way. (Not that you seem to have any trouble steamrolling right over them.)
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
"I've been saying that on 230 national and international television programs for nine years now."
You've been keeping count? Real humble, Mr. Thompson. Very not-self-absorbed.
That was sarcasm, by the way, Mr. Thompson. UH-OH, GUESS YOU GOTTA SUE ME, CUZ I SAID ILL ABOUT YOU OVER THE INTERNET. WHAT EVER SHALL I DO??
Oh wait. You're lying. AGAIN.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
by your logic, schools and educational television and books are dangerous for the very same reasons
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Too bad they don't make games about how to practice law then, eh Jacky?
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
My friend's planning to get into the medical field. Looks like video games are gonna help him a lot.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
"Other studies confirmed earlier research that found students who played violent games tended to be more hostile, less forgiving and believed violence to be normal compared to those who played nonviolent games."
By the Gods I hate comments like that.
Really, studies have proven this? What studies? By whom? Why is it that they never so much as cite the titles of these so-called "confirmed" reports?
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Well, newspaper don't really have all the space to cite the studies and I guess those who are interested, like you, would probably do their own research. A good start would be your local university library.
By the way, the APA also released their own press release , it has a bit more detail, but nothing too technical.
http://vgresearcher.wordpress.com/
http://vgresearcher.wordpress.com/
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Even further, where is the cause and effect? Statistically, how many more kids are likely to show this behavior, then with another group of kids that never play violent video game but watch violent TV and movies like many kids do, and a group of kids that do get nothing with violence. (lets include how socially apt these kids are too, because I bet the kids with no violence seen at all will be a little awkward.)
Lets start with the first question for anything that comes out of the mouths of people talking about research like this though, who funded your research? Or who funded the people who funded your research?
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Here's the problem with your question, the kids who never played violent video games or even video games and those that watch only violent TV would potentially be not a representative picture of people. They could potentially be different from an average kid.
http://vgresearcher.wordpress.com/
http://vgresearcher.wordpress.com/
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Exactly, just like how these kids committing the crimes could potentially be different from the average kid, and have other issues causing the problems.
Re: American Psychological Assn: Games Are Powerful Learning
Vague, poorly contexted statements by the APA, what else is new?
Also, did they try to suggest in the first statement that video games make better surgeons as opposed to actual training in the field? I'm all for self improved in my vidyas, but thats sounds like quite the stretch...
"Other studies confirmed
"Other studies confirmed earlier research that found students who played violent games tended to be more hostile, less forgiving and believed violence to be normal compared to those who played nonviolent games."
Sounds like a lot of sports fans I know...
This is the problem with the labels they use. Just like the "increased aggression" study. "Increased aggression" sounds threatening, but then when it was explained that it meant a blast of noise was on average a tiny bit longer, it loses some of it's impact. We have no idea what the context of these descriptors are.
What exactly do they mean by "more hostile"? Do the students who played violent games actually become physically violent? Do they simply use more forthright and forceful language? Do they become argumentative or animated in discussion? Maybe it's as simple as them being more likely to take up a contrary position in a discussion.
"Believed violence to be normal"
This is another confusing one. Are they talking about in context in the game? (ie. in Doom trying to shoot a switch before trying to interact with the use button). Do they mean that these people do not react to violence as much? (could be from watching Fox or CNN for all they know!) Or do they mean that these people use physical violence as part of their day to day activities!
Seriously, these announcements should carry a disclaimer of some sort, explaining "These statements may not mean what you think they mean as the context is not apparent". Maybe it might have helped Jack Thompson before he went misrepresenting all these studies...
Re: "Other studies confirmed
I agree that some things probably could be done differently and to greater effect
_____________________
Psychology Dissertation
Re: "Other studies confirmed
You know, that is exactly what I was thinking when I read that. "Believed violence to be normal" While in most countries, I would say that violence is normal, as well as in the slums of bigger cities, and even in the boon docks. I am sorry, but violence is pretty normal in our society. In the city I live in, there has been an average of 1 killing per day for 2 months now. (Last summer it was 1 killing for every 3 days...) I highly doubt video games are twisting my perception with statistics like that.
I also thought, how stupid at these people, of course video games are great learning tools. You actually had to do research to figure that out? If you are interactive with what you are learning, you are going to retain that information more than if you just watch some idiot stand in the front of a room writing on a chalkboard while you fall asleep. How about some information on how much time playing a well designed game in relation to learning from a teacher? I want to see how many hours of each equal out to the same amount of knowledge on the subject matter. Now that is useful information.