UK Court Levies $30K Fine Against Unemployed Mom In File-Sharing Case
UK Court Levies $30K Fine Against Unemployed Mom In File-Sharing Case
August 19, 2008
A British woman who uploaded a PC pinball game to a file-sharing network has been ordered to pay publisher Topware Interactive £16,086 (roughly $30,000).
As reported by the BBC, Isabella Barwinska's troubles began when the London woman uploaded a copy of Dream Pinball 3D (retail value about $30). The case was heard at London's Patents County Court. Victorious Topware lawyer David Gore said:
The damages and costs ordered by the Court are significant and should act as a deterrent. This shows that taking direct steps against infringers is an important and effective weapon in the battle against online piracy. This is the first of many. It was always intended that there would be a lot more.
IP lawyer David Harris, who has no stake in the Topware case, told the BBC:
This is a proper Intellectual Property (IP) court that has made this judgement. The previous ones were default judgements where defendants never turned up. It's a much more interesting case in that respect.
Becky Hogge, director of the UK's Open Rights Group commented on the ruling:
An open court process with a full report is certainly preferable to justice of the type being mooted by the government on P2P, where activity takes place behind closed doors through industry action... In relation to the orders for release of personal data, it is important that court processes do not become rubberstamps for industry action but retain judicial safeguards and independence.
Meanwhile, the Daily Mail reports that the defendant is an unemployed Polish immigrant and mother of two from London's downscale East End. As GamePolitics reported last month, four alleged file sharers made lesser settlements with Topware.
A PUBLICATION OF THE ECA
SUBSCRIBE
LOGIN / REGISTER
Crispy Gamer
GamePolitics ShoutBox
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:32pm
Aliasalpha: Ding dong the witch is dead eh? Maybe we'll finally be treated as adults here and women can have small tits again!
Aliasalpha: Ding dong the witch is dead eh? Maybe we'll finally be treated as adults here and women can have small tits again!
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:28pm
JDKJ: Survey says no opinion either way. But approval is high among wombats.
JDKJ: Survey says no opinion either way. But approval is high among wombats.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:25pm
BearDogg-X: JDKJ: What does the wallabies and crocodiles think of Skippy?
BearDogg-X: JDKJ: What does the wallabies and crocodiles think of Skippy?
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:24pm
Andrew Eisen: Beardogg-X - Not staunchly, no. However, only one AG has gone on record as supporting an R18+ rating. The rest either stated no position or declined to comment.
Andrew Eisen: Beardogg-X - Not staunchly, no. However, only one AG has gone on record as supporting an R18+ rating. The rest either stated no position or declined to comment.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:23pm
JDKJ: Of 437 koala bears surveyed, 420 disagree with choice of Skippy for interim AG.
JDKJ: Of 437 koala bears surveyed, 420 disagree with choice of Skippy for interim AG.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:21pm
BearDogg-X: With Atkinson stepping down, the question now becomes was there any other AG besides him that was against R18+? His stepping down does make R18+ more likely to be approved.
BearDogg-X: With Atkinson stepping down, the question now becomes was there any other AG besides him that was against R18+? His stepping down does make R18+ more likely to be approved.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:18pm
Andrew Eisen: Well, Adelaide readers seem pleased with Atkinson's decision. 420 out of 437.
Andrew Eisen: Well, Adelaide readers seem pleased with Atkinson's decision. 420 out of 437.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:15pm
JDKJ: BREAKING: Vacant Aussie AG post to be filled by Skippy, the Bush Kangaroo.
JDKJ: BREAKING: Vacant Aussie AG post to be filled by Skippy, the Bush Kangaroo.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:12pm
Andrew Eisen: Flamespeak - Gamecube and Xbox came out in late 2001 with contollers pretty similar to the Dual Shock. You never know thoug. This Fall may be when the standard controller changes from the Dual Shock to a motion wand. *shudder*
Andrew Eisen: Flamespeak - Gamecube and Xbox came out in late 2001 with contollers pretty similar to the Dual Shock. You never know thoug. This Fall may be when the standard controller changes from the Dual Shock to a motion wand. *shudder*
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:09pm
Flamespeak: at a quicker rate these days.
Flamespeak: at a quicker rate these days.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:09pm
Flamespeak: I believe that was launched in the first part of 1998. 2 years seems kind of fast too, but then again the world seems to move
Flamespeak: I believe that was launched in the first part of 1998. 2 years seems kind of fast too, but then again the world seems to move
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:05pm
Andrew Eisen: Flamespeak - Not when you consider Sony's been using the same controller since the PS1.
Andrew Eisen: Flamespeak - Not when you consider Sony's been using the same controller since the PS1.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:03pm
BearDogg-X: Andrew Eisen: I meant that it won't take as many people to change their votes next election. Besides that, it's become a moot point now that he's stepping down as AG as soon as the election's over.
BearDogg-X: Andrew Eisen: I meant that it won't take as many people to change their votes next election. Besides that, it's become a moot point now that he's stepping down as AG as soon as the election's over.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:02pm
Flamespeak: Seems kind of early considering the PS2 didn't launch until well into 2000.
Flamespeak: Seems kind of early considering the PS2 didn't launch until well into 2000.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:01pm
Andrew Eisen: Fleamespeak - I'd say since around the turn of the century.
Andrew Eisen: Fleamespeak - I'd say since around the turn of the century.
Posted 03/20/10 at 10:01pm
BearDogg-X: BREAKING NEWS: Atkinson will step down as South Australia Attorney-General; will remain in Parliament
BearDogg-X: BREAKING NEWS: Atkinson will step down as South Australia Attorney-General; will remain in Parliament
Posted 03/20/10 at 09:59pm
Andrew Eisen: BearDogg-X - Not sure what your point about Atkinson having only 8500 votes is, seeing as that's around 65% (of the total votes counted at the time).
Andrew Eisen: BearDogg-X - Not sure what your point about Atkinson having only 8500 votes is, seeing as that's around 65% (of the total votes counted at the time).
Posted 03/20/10 at 09:57pm
Flamespeak: I remember when the NES controller held that honor and the stand alone one button joystick before that.
Flamespeak: I remember when the NES controller held that honor and the stand alone one button joystick before that.
Posted 03/20/10 at 09:56pm
Flamespeak: artistic rendering of things associated with gaming? Even GP has a rough version of one in their logo.
Flamespeak: artistic rendering of things associated with gaming? Even GP has a rough version of one in their logo.
Posted 03/20/10 at 09:56pm
Flamespeak: Just out of curiosity, when did the PS2 controller become the 'standard' for video game controller representation in most
Flamespeak: Just out of curiosity, when did the PS2 controller become the 'standard' for video game controller representation in most
Copyright © 2007 ECA. All rights reserved.
Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Comments
I thought these fines were meant specifically as reperations for damages, not intended as a 'You are bad, we're going to suck up your finances now.'
Meh, even still, the inflated fines involving this kind of thing is pure bull****.
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com
What is being missed by a lot of the blogs picking up this story is that she was offered a £300 out of court settlement in the original letter. She refused, was taken to court and lost the £16,000.
I don't think she deserved the £16k fine but she certainly wasn't smart in refusing to settle for the £300 initial fine.
The thing is, the RIAA uses this tactic all the time. They sue you, then offer to settle for an outrageous amount less than what the potential legal fees might amount for. Most people would -- as you say -- take the easier route and just settle out of court, essentially admitting guilt, because it would be too much of a hassle otherwise. Thus, they can get away with suing most anybody randomly. It's disgusting and a perversion of the legal system as well as the spirit in which IP laws were written.
This ruling is absurd. This woman is not a pirate, and 'Dream Pinball 3D' can barely be called a 'game'. The real crime is that this 'game' is priced at $30. If Topware didn't sell their shitty game for such a ridiculous price, maybe they'd see a better return and wouldn't have to sue people. Hell, I'm surprised that anyone bothered to download the damn thing at all.
Unbelievable.
No, no.. I believe that she should have been found guilty if (according to UK law) that uploading a game to a sharing network is illegal. What I do NOT agree with is Topware's profiteering from this ruling.
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com
This is probably the only profit the bastards made from this game. Nice approach to make money, make a shitty game that won't sell and then sue people who pirate it and profit from it.
It's not as if anybody would buy it anyway.
It would be more fair to fine for the number of illegal downloads that resulted from her uploading the game. 300 pounds seems right, if there were 20 downloads of the game. But AFAIK, if no one even downloaded this pile of a game, there would be no damage. It would be like leaving a burned copy of a DVD movie on the street, but without anyone taking it.
But saying that would be assuming that the downloaders would've bought the game had they not downloaded it. If I download music off of limewire, or if the music isn't on limewire, either way I'm not spending money on the songs, so what's it matter? If I get it for free, that's cool, but if I have to pay for it I'm just not going to take it. The makers aren't losing or gaining any money either way, so what is the damage?
er...sorry if my post doesn't make much sense, I'm having trouble expressing this in words.
Yup, picking on Polish Immigrants without any money is pretty much typical for Industry 'defence' groups these days.
With the assumption that she is unemployed not for the reason of being a lazy bum, I feel sorry for the lady.
I understand companies not wanting their stuff uploaded on the internet for free but at the same time this is a great PR stunt for your company.
Haven't we learned from earlier stories not to trust the Daily Mail?
You can tell from the Mail's headline they didn't bother to read the story either. She wasn't fined for downloading it, she was fined for seeding it.
Greedy Bastards! A 30K fine for just that? using that logic Ryan Brant should pay a billion dollars. But no, white collar criminals that steal millions are gonna be treated differently then unemployed mothers.
so were going to collect 30k from an unemployed woman . . . how?
what about her kids? ARe they gonna be put for adoption or sold to a sweathouse in China by Topware to pay the fine?
lol!
Ship 'em off to Australia I say!
You mean Canada? because with their more laxed rules, I could see how that would work out.
$30k is prob what it cost to make the damn pinball game...I mean it's not like they're re-inventing the wheel here....IT'S PINBALL FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!!!
If they do collect - it will likely double their profits on the game. Perhaps even more than double....
They are going to get $30K from an unemployed woman for a pinball game nobody has ever heard about...
To me this is just one big advertisement for the game, and they still get money off of it.
That's my whole problem with it. Topware most definately did not LOSE that much money from her 'making available'. So why are they getting paid more than the amount 'lost'?
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com
If you read the article you'd see that £6k was awarded for actual damages and the remaining £10k was for costs incured by the law suite.
Okay, even still.. six-thousand for the actual damages... I doubt she allowed others to copy the game 375 times (at the listed value converted back to GBP), or more accurately 750 times at it's current 8 GBP value. The fine is disproportionate.
My car gets broken into, or something stolen from me, I don't get to claim that my window on my car is replaced, plus some to 'punish' the person responsible. It is replaced at their cost and done with. Even still, if Topware were to go after the uploader (in this case, they did), and the downloader, they'd get the damages twice in the first place.
Does anyone else see where I'm going with this? Topware should not be profitting off of the 6,000 GBP fine at all.
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com
No, but they will likely loose that much money on bad publicity on this whole thing.
Topware, EA - the list of companies I refuse to buy from now is ever growing. I do IN FACT pay for the games I play. Long ago, I found that the hassles of downloading 'cracked' games was something I just didn't have time for.
I was really tempted to check out Warhammer - but with it being an EA game... ummm, ehhh.. probably not.
Thank god for used games and Ebay although for those to work somebody had to buy the game new.
Fuck that, go Pirate Bay!
Activision are far worse than EA these days. You gonna pick up Guitar Hero: Nickleback or Call of Duty 12?
Here is the company site just if you want to leave some comments.
http://southpeakgames.com/index.php
ups forgot the link
Clearly the 30 k can be made via selling her into some sort of slavery or sexual servant position at 3$ an hour for 10 000 hours. If she's unattractive they could also trying selling her children for physical labour/food
I'd love to be in the room when that company finds out it won the suit... "Hey guys, our game is finally going to turn a profit!"
---
The Mammon Industry
Not that I agree with how much she has to pay but perhaps if you're unemployed and broke, you shouldn't go posting illegal copies of software online. Just a thought.
I agree, but 16K is too big of a fine.
As I posted in response to the first comment, she had a choice, pay an 'on the spot' settlement of £300 or go to court and probably lose a hell of a lot more. She chose the latter.
She prob didn't have the 300 pounds to pay, so they took her to court and won 16,000...and she still can't pay.....imagine that one...
That's pure speculation at best. Even if you're really broke, it's not hard to find a way to put together a few hundred dollars quickly if you have to. Trust me, I've been in such a position before. Like I said, I don't necessarily agree with the treatment she got from the UK courts of TopWare but we're talking about someone who illegally posted software online for people to download. Sorry but you don't get to do that. That there are better uses for the court's time doesn't excuse the fact that she broke the law.
Even though I disagree with her losing the case (and I seriously wonder if she actually fought it, or just couldn't afford a decent lawyer), if the piece of software cost $30 and she was illegally seeding it for any decent amount of time I think it's fair to say 1000 were downloaded. It's still a crap ruling, but the punishments makes sense.
Well, I know who not to buy games from now. This is pathetic in my opinion, she was umemployed, not only that but the fact that she is a Mum implies that she has kids. What are they going to do when their Mum can't pay? Get adopted. Damn, Topware Interactive is pure evil.
OFF.WITH.HER.HEAD!!!
"Stop! Stop! Executioner, hold your axe!"
"Now you tell your men to let go of my buddy or I've just found myself a new pincushion.."
"Let go of my budd-- I mean.. Let go of the prisoner!"
(I like that movie.. >>)
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com
Virtual Pinball is such a huge market isn't it? I mean to be able to win a case and claim (approx) $8500 USD in damages for lost business. Was the lady wrong? Probably to defiantly. But to slap her with a fine that she cannot pay in 10 years (disregarding her children and thier care) does not seem... practical or realistic. Oh well I am the sure there are some having orgasms over this bull. And they wonder what happened to common scene.
"This shows that taking direct steps against infringers is an important and effective weapon in the battle against online piracy. "
How? This doesn't prove ANYTHING. This isn't results or data this is just you suing for a ludicrous amount of money. Oh and the deterrence thing probably won't work either.
Looks like a case of going for a soft target really.
But seriously, who exactly are this company, what other games have they done?
And finally, 6k fine and 10k costs? Damn, their lawyers are making more through this one case than the game is likely to at all!
I understand industries and companies need to protect their properties too, but they always seem to nail the "wrong" people. It's not like she was the head of a large software pirating ring in Hong Kong or something.
Also how many people would have downloaded it? Like TWO? Just charge her 60 bucks.
I am sorry but until the industry comprehends that they can get at most retail price for each file these high fines are laughable and show how out of touch they are.
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)
Wow. $30,000 huh?
All that money, all this hassle, all this off-point arguing about how much piracy really does to the industry...
Kind of makes paying thirty stupid dollars for your entertainment seem like a good idea, doesn't it?
Buy your games, people. It's not hard.
This on toast. Can't afford £40 for a new game? Rent it, wait a few weeks for it to come down in price, or look for it second hand.
I wonder how many pro-piracy people get shirty when someone steals their LiveJournal icons.
How bizarre to see people defending her.
If she didn't want to pay the fine, nobody was forcing her at gunpoint to illegally upload this game - crappy or not - to a torrent site.
If you want a game, buy it. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If you want it but don't want to pay for it, tough.
to be honest im not defending her per se im questioning the judgement of the courts for putting a fine on someone who obviously cannot pay it (they could treated like any other theft and charged her appropiately to her crime)
Don't want piracy, don't sell this stuff for so much money. Simple as that. Volume of sales could probably more than make up for lost revenue.
I suspect there is no price point at which some pirates will change their minds.
I used to be in the trade with my own high street store back in the 8-bit days. At the time I was selling Spectrum and C64 games for £1.99-£9.99 (Amiga and ST games were just beginning to appear at £24.99) - having pirated copies being handed around the local school playground didn't do much to help put dinner on the table.
If she didn't want to pay the fine, nobody was forcing her at gunpoint to illegally upload this game - crappy or not - to a torrent site.
It's more of a case of disproportionate fines. I see a bigger problem with the fact that the courts decided to act as a punishment for a civil case, rather than a criminal case. Quite simply, she should be fined, no problem with that, but what is the actual DAMAGE to having had that game uploaded? Certainly not 6,000 GBP.
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com
When software and movie companies start targeting the pirate industries in China and SE Asia, I'll take them seriously on their 'hard line stance against piracy'.
Until then, they're just potting small game.
Here's a question nobody has asked yet... Did the woman even KNOW that she was breaking the law?
Cuz... if you use "videogames" and "law" in a single sentence, most people go "buh!?"
Here's a question nobody has asked yet... Did the woman even KNOW that she was breaking the law?
Cuz... if you use "videogames" and "law" in a single sentence, most people go "buh!?"
Ignorance is not a valid reason to break the law regardless.
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.comWell actually, under UK Copyright law if you didn't know that you were breaking the law then you don't get punished for it.
SetoChaos
Citation?
And I'm not denying that it's an excuse for breaking the law... I'm just thinking why so harsh over something that 99% of the populous doesn't even know about?
It's a pinball game, you can get thousands of these things online if you had some fetish for them.
Not worth the time and money of the courts to drag this case through them, much less is anything in that game likely worth $30.000. Not the code, not the graphical work, not the packaging...nothing.
IP is IP...but sometimes this shit goes too far.
I've never downloaded a pirated game in my life, but from now on, if I see a game by Topware (and assuming I want it, which is doubtful), I think I might look into getting it for free.
To be fair, Topware did do Xpand Rally, didn't they..? That was actually a really good rally title, so the games aren't horrible, just. this one.
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com
I'm all for freedom of ttnet vitamin speech and allowing rent a car game makers to put whatever they want in games, but there's one thing about this app that has me scratching my head. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from araç kiralama the previous article araba kiralama on this I gathered that players can use Google maps in-game to find the other (real-life?) dealers in their area. If this is the case, has travesti anyone considered what's stopping someone from using this app to actually move drugs between hands for reals?