Germany's Complex Game Rating System Explained
Germany's Complex Game Rating System Explained
August 25, 2008
Video game content rating in Germany is not for the faint of heart (or the easily confused), according to a report in DW-World:
Legislation recently passed in Germany in July, for example, makes it easier to put [violent] games on the banned list following the introduction of a rating index... Games on Germany's banned list cannot be sold publicly. That includes any advertising and sales through mail order. The decision to flag a game is made by the Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons (BPjM)...
But the labeling system for content rating is run by yet another organization in Berlin, under the sponsorship of two game industry groups:
The labeling system is organized by the so-called Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle (USK) in Berlin... Two industrial associations assumed sponsorship from June 1: the German Association of Computer Game Developers (G.A.M.E.) and the German Association of Interactive Entertainment Software (BIU), both of which are headquartered in Berlin.
...but, despite the industry's involvement, the government has an additional layer of control here, as well:
The decision-making power lies with the federal states. The Protection of Minors Act calls for the Supreme Youth Agencies of the state to undertake the labelling, he said.
"And they employ the USK," [BIU spokesman Olaf] Wolters added.
The USK functions as a service provider, commissioning a circle of independent experts. These observers first play the game, present their results to a five-person committee consisting of at least four of roughly 60 expert appraisers from the USK, including teachers and employees of the youth agencies. The committee is then completed by a permanent representative of the Supreme Youth Agencies of the states.
GP: It would seem that quite a few bureaucrats are involved in Germany's content rating process...
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Posted 12/01/08 at 10:50pm
d.vel.oper: @sql: Messaged. Though I do so enjoy geeking up the shoutbox.
d.vel.oper: @sql: Messaged. Though I do so enjoy geeking up the shoutbox.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:49pm
PHX Corp: No, not at all
PHX Corp: No, not at all
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:49pm
sqlrob: @PHX: Is that one of the signs of the apocalypse?
sqlrob: @PHX: Is that one of the signs of the apocalypse?
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:44pm
PHX Corp: Bill o'reilly finally advocated commonsense concerning violent Video Games (He said that parents need to watch out what their children play)
PHX Corp: Bill o'reilly finally advocated commonsense concerning violent Video Games (He said that parents need to watch out what their children play)
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:43pm
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: Do you have any networking experience? Private message me, this nick on LiveJournal so we can talk in more detail
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: Do you have any networking experience? Private message me, this nick on LiveJournal so we can talk in more detail
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:42pm
d.vel.oper: Might have to wait until the New Year, finances, etc.
d.vel.oper: Might have to wait until the New Year, finances, etc.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:42pm
d.vel.oper: I'm in Central Florida, but since the job sounds fun, I wouldn't be against relocation.
d.vel.oper: I'm in Central Florida, but since the job sounds fun, I wouldn't be against relocation.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:39pm
sqlrob: @@d.vel.oper: Where are you? We're in Austin
sqlrob: @@d.vel.oper: Where are you? We're in Austin
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:37pm
d.vel.oper: @sqlrob: Always looking, always hooking :P I didn't finish college, and haven't worked on any big projects. But I love hooking.
d.vel.oper: @sqlrob: Always looking, always hooking :P I didn't finish college, and haven't worked on any big projects. But I love hooking.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:35pm
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: You looking for a job? Where I work thef first thought for fixing something is hooking.
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: You looking for a job? Where I work thef first thought for fixing something is hooking.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:35pm
d.vel.oper: So you can write JS scripts that use the Steam API, kinda like plugins and such.
d.vel.oper: So you can write JS scripts that use the Steam API, kinda like plugins and such.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:34pm
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: I don't trust squat at ring 0. If it can't install as non-privileged user, I don't want it (games)
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: I don't trust squat at ring 0. If it can't install as non-privileged user, I don't want it (games)
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:34pm
d.vel.oper: ...basically, a Steam extender.
d.vel.oper: ...basically, a Steam extender.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:34pm
d.vel.oper: I'm working on mucking about with Steam right now. Writing a multi-hook with a JavaScript (Google V8) scripting engine...
d.vel.oper: I'm working on mucking about with Steam right now. Writing a multi-hook with a JavaScript (Google V8) scripting engine...
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:33pm
d.vel.oper: Usually via my own C++ code, and ASM stubs.
d.vel.oper: Usually via my own C++ code, and ASM stubs.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:32pm
d.vel.oper: So I do alot of RE, and run-time code modification.
d.vel.oper: So I do alot of RE, and run-time code modification.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:32pm
d.vel.oper: @sqlrob: I mainly subvert game cheat protections, which are basically rootkits themselves.
d.vel.oper: @sqlrob: I mainly subvert game cheat protections, which are basically rootkits themselves.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:14pm
sqlrob: I've written POC malware that AV wouldn't have a chance against, never mind the deals copy protection have made with them.
sqlrob: I've written POC malware that AV wouldn't have a chance against, never mind the deals copy protection have made with them.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:09pm
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: Most of what I did was user space, a little kernel.. Lots of RE, both of Windows and malware
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: Most of what I did was user space, a little kernel.. Lots of RE, both of Windows and malware
Posted 12/01/08 at 09:51pm
Michael Chandra: @sqlrob: Except for that many of the old and new games I like will be spread around so much that 6 consoles is more expensive.
Michael Chandra: @sqlrob: Except for that many of the old and new games I like will be spread around so much that 6 consoles is more expensive.
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Comments
Glad I don't live in Germany...
German gamers also don't mind that thanks to being in the EU border inspections pretty much don't exist, and that any number of dutch and belgian online game stores will deliver whatever they order to their doorstep for a couple of euros more.
That´s a good thing. I just hope Geman politicians don´t penalize property of violent games in the future.
The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/
Property of something will never be punished over here. In the German legal tradition even the property of things that cannot be sold or bought legally (like drugs or confisctated media - Dead Rising or Manhunt for example) isn't punishable.
And as mentioned, you can just order them online from a neighboring country, from Austria if you want a German version.
Actually, posession of drugs is a crime in Germany, punishable with jailtime up to 5 years.
Not if you can believably tell the judge that its for personal use (we have vague reference values, like for example 6 grams of marihuana in the state of Hesse, but a judge might also decide that 20 grams are a "small amount", if you can convince him that it was not supposed to be sold and that it was only for personal use).
Gotta say though that pricipally your right, posession is still illegal, but it won't get persecuted (according to the outlined restrictions).
But still, posession of media is never illegal (only in very very few (very very very few!) exceptions related to the Third Reich).
Sounds to me that almost every government hates videogames...
USA, UK, Australia, Brazil, Gernmany, China, Thiland,
Ummm.... any word on the Japanese front????
I am sure that they (Japanese Gov) don't like the Hentai games that their country makes...
If only a few politicians were gamers... We would have a bit more voice to defend ourselves.
If a few gamers were politicians, they would still sell us out for votes.
The decision to flag a game is made by the Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons (BPjM)...
So, they ban a game based on whether or not a toddler should play it? Excellent. Once again, entertainment is only for kids. Adults have more important things to think about, such as what to buy and how to make money. There's no time for "fun" in an adult's life--unless you really enjoy your job.
Wow, that's a whole lot of bureacracy. I got far too little sleep to try and make any real sense out of it.
I find the titles of some of those departments rather disturbing. "Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons" in particular sends shivers down my spine.
Of course I was born in America, not Germany, so I can only comment based on the "titned lens" set by my own culture and government. Having not been born or raised there, I can really only understand so much.
I am curious about how Germans, in particular German gamers, feel about departments such as the ones described above and their role within the system. They seem rather Big Brother-esque to me, but as I have stated this is probably due to my own cultural biases. Any German gamers up to giving their own perspective?
Of course opinions on those control institutions vary from person to person. As a german gamer who enjoys playing adult themed games which include violent acts, sexual acts, or pose questions and situations that don't easily allow for simple Good or Bad, yes or no, right or wrong, I would say that these institutions haven't affected my gaming experience that much.
Only very few times did I have to resolve to buy import games, or apply "blood" patches to games to regain control over the violence that would be censored out of games sold in Germany.
There has only been one major issue in all these years, and that I have with Fallout one.
In Fallout the player comes across a region called "The Glow" which is a nuked city, I believe it was Los Angeles. Deep in the Underground of that city is a vault. In the lowest levels of the vault is an intelligent computer that will basically explain to the player what the game is all about. It's a hard to reach place, but for the players who want to know what happened to the planet - for players who want to know the true story - you have to get down there. You need to find a red keycard to get there, because the elevator requires it. The card was hidden on a dead body. Unfortunately, in the German version of the game, many many dead bodies are censored out. So - in the german version - you never learn the truth.
Legislation recently passed in Germany in July, for example, makes it easier to put [violent] games on the banned list following the introduction of a rating index...
I already said that last time, this topic came up - this is just plain wrong. This index has existed for as long as I can remember. Putting games on it was actually a lot easier a few years ago, because at least USK-rated games are safe from it now. (The original C&C was censored pretty bad for fear of it. On the other hand, the international version of C&C Generals is on the index.) The recent legislation only introduced two new criteria - showing violence for its own sake and in great detail (which got the game banned under the old rules anyway), and portraiting vigilantism as the only means of achieving justice. (As no one seems to be complaining about Batman, I have yet to discover, what that's supposed to mean.) Well, that and the ridiculous giant signs on game boxes.
I am curious about how Germans, in particular German gamers, feel about departments such as the ones described above and their role within the system. They seem rather Big Brother-esque to me, but as I have stated this is probably due to my own cultural biases. Any German gamers up to giving their own perspective?
German gamers feel pretty much the same. Unfortunately, non-gamers act on the information they get from the media - and reporting on gaming in German media is simply ridiculous. Almost all reports are extremly biased and so sloppily researched, that it's gets really hard to not think of them as deliberate lies.
Lets also not forget that the size of the USK logo on a game box has jumped in size as well now. On a DS cover it actually takes up a good 1/4 of the space used for the cover image.
Yeah, especially on handheld-games the new size of the thing is ridiculus. Look at that:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NE%2BRaHiJL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
you know this is the kind of rating system JT would sell his soul for and nut in his pants for... uch-thung baby!
Jesus Jack Jones Thompson told me to do it!
I feel sorry for the German gamers who are getting screwed out of a lot of great games cause there rating system is so fucked.
As said over over and over again, we're not getting screwed out of any games.
We can order them from any other EU country.
Even the twelve (yes, twelve - you've heard right, an indefinitly huge amount) games that have been confisctated in the history of Germany. As I said, possession is legal.
You can have a look at all the confiscated games here:
http://www.blood-is-red.de/wiki/wikka.php?wakka=Beschlagnahmt
You might notice that for example the SNES -versions of MK1 & MK3 aren't on the list, only versions on other consoles.
That was me ;)
And for three of the games on the list there's even a special German version, so that even Joe Average (who doesn't buy games online) can buy them. In a cut state, granted.
Yeah, you can do that. But you know what? It's illegal. You can buy it personally, you can bring it in yourself, but you can't have it shipped to you. If your game somehow by some stroke of incredibly bad luck gets caught by customs, it'll just be seized, and there's nothing you can do about it. "You can order it from abroad, it's illegal, but you probably won't get caught." - yeah, that sounds really good.
Its not clear if it is illegal.
And if it is, it is illegal for the seller, not you as a buyer.
So you may loose 50 euros, but you won't have to fear any kind of persecution.
http://www.medienzensur.de/seite/beschlagnahmung.shtml
IIRC games are still censored from blood and gore and still given an 18+ rating.
Ze Germans have a love of government,you see.Much like the rest of the Axis of Weasles.
I find the titles of some of those departments rather disturbing. "Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons" in particular sends shivers down my spine.
This particular dapartment has definitely some kind of fasicst aftertaste, that's why it has been criticized as an unofficial censorshiptool by many pretty much since the 50s.
What most Nongermans don't understand however is the fact that all those "blacklisting", banning etc. is not done in order to keep the GERMAN market "clean". Nobody really cares about people importing banned games/films as long as it's for your own consumption.
What most Nongermans don't understand however is the fact that all those "blacklisting", banning etc. is not done in order to keep the GERMAN market "clean". Nobody really cares about people importing banned games/films as long as it's for your own consumption.
I am German, and if you can name any other purpose, I'd like to hear it.
I meant of course:
What most Nongermans don't understand however is the fact that all those "blacklisting", banning etc. is done in order to keep the GERMAN market "clean".
Sorry
Personally, this can only be a good thing. If those German kids don't have the actual game, then they can't scream and rant when I own them.
So the Germans have a bureacracy that is staffed with German stuffy bureacrats?
It's like an anarchist's worse nightmare.
Whoa.
Is it just me, or is that WAY too many departments and officials to pay for just to have someone tell you what video games you can and can't buy?
Government inefficiency at it's worst.
Germany: If you're a gamer...what the hell are you doing here?
One of the thigns that stands out is if a game is "banned" its not blocked, its jsut harder to sell the German version of it.
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
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