Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of Death

Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of Death

September 8, 2008

Last summer, when Microsoft finally admitted to consumers that it had a major problem with the Xbox 360 and its infamous Red Rings of Death, I recall thinking that if anyone could get to the bottom of the situation it would be Dean Takahashi, then of the San Jose Mercury-News.

Dean had already proven his ability to uncover MS dirt as the author of a pair of excellent books detailing the inside story of the creation of both the original Xbox and the 360 (Opening the Xbox, 2002 & The Xbox 360 Uncloaked, 2006).

Since the RROD story broke, Dean has moved on to VentureBeat, where he has penned the definitive story to date on the Xbox 360 fiasco. It's a must-read, as he details how a rushed and very flawed manufacturing process left consumers with a machine dealing with an incredibly high failure rate (GPPersonally, I've had three go RROD on me). Here's a brief excerpt:

The problem for Microsoft was that it sacrificed something to rush into the market and establish the Xbox 360 as the premiere platform of the living room. What it sacrificed was the good will of consumers, who are actually critical in terms of establishing a lasting platform...

 

One thing is clear. Microsoft has to move beyond its mentality of being a software company that can launch fast and fix later. With global markets and global launches, the consequences of such a cavalier approach to hardware quality can start to pile up. The company clearly has the cash and the size to compete among the best hardware companies out there. It cannot afford to tarnish its brand when competitors on various fronts — such as Google on the web side and Apple, Sony, and Nintendo on the hardware side — are there to exploit its stumbles.

GP: Dean's findings on the 360's manufacturing woes clears up a lot of misinformation, including the silly notion that surge protectors were causing the RROD.

Comments

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I'm glad I don't have a 360 yet.  Hopefully this silliness will be over by the time I pick one up.

Sony got the PS2 to market ahead of Nintendo and MS and I don't recall that console having a glaring technical failing.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

There was a recall on the AC adaptors with the first batch of slim models, as well as the drive issue. But they did handle those a HELL of a lot better than Microsoft did. As well, they didn't rush out the product to be first.

It was funny though. When I was in game retail, during a christmas period, I saw a minimum 10% failure on the 360s (we got in 300 of them, 30 returns in the first 2 weeks). Over the course of the year since the PS3 launched, there was a hanful of returns (with a couple hundred units sold) and I never saw a Wii returned. A little delay works wonders.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I have a PS2 from 2003. Never had a problem with it. I use it as my primary dvd player and game machine. It gets a work out almost everyday. Never had a problem with it.

E. Zachary Knight
http://www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I can't remember but the DRE issues on the PS2 plagued 3 revisions out of the current 15 revisions of the PS2,  it was a revision before 4 revision 9(or around it) and 12(or around it) I think...anyway they tried to cut cost on the lens units.

Other wise the PS2 was made a solid, the Xbox had heating issues but for the most part worked. the 360 has had 3-5X of a fail rate compared to them.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

 yes, but the xbox blew the PS2 away in hardware and graphics whereas xbox 360 and PS3 are in the same league

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Yes, that's true except, just because you have the most "tricked out graphics," does not mean "Innovation!" as you well know i'm talking Wiimote! Analog sticks can be fun, but these days, i'm looking to add a little more spice in my games if you know what I mean? I'm not dissing the PS3, just the 360 for craptastic hardware and dumb moves like push out now, then fix later... look at Vista: EPIC FAIL!!! (thats what they say in WoW, right?)

Jesus Jack Jones Thompson told me to do it!

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Sorry, but your comment is a fail.  The 360 is not in the same league as the ps3.  The 360 is limited to 3 cpu's and a crappy gpu with shity ram.  The ps3 has a cell processor that is based of of stream processing that is able to run a lot more than what it's doing now.  The main reason the games look simular in terms of graphics is that developers are not going to take the time to optimize the graphics for the ps3. 

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Are you kidding?

I had "Disk Read Error" on two of my PS2s.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Only time i've had that happen to me was with a gameshark disc. And that's probably just because its... well... a gameshark.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I'm guessing the RRODs are more bound to happen on certain SKUs and release batches. I got an Arcade 360 for Christmas and haven't encountered any hardware problems so far.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Not really. It seems to happen randomly. People with the same SKU and batch have such widely varying results, it is almost scary.

E. Zachary Knight
http://www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

You shouldn't have any problem with the arcade version, actually.  I believe they pretty well had that fixed by the time that SKU was available.

 

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I guess it's a reasonable explanation. Plus, the Premium has always been much more popular than the Core/Arcade system, so you don't hear much from those owners.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I guess I'd rather have the reputation of being the console prone to break but repaired for free than the console that has no games.  MS made the right choice shipping the faulty console.  They got the userbase which means they became the more attractive option for exclusive developer deals.  So much so that Sony couldn't even keep Final Fantasy exclusive.

And as far as sacrificing customer good will, I redringed once, got it fixed in a week for free.  No hard feelings.  My Wii broke (drive went bad and quit reading disks) within it's first year too.

Every console I've had since they started including wear items (disc drives) has broken.  It's gonna happen.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

"My Wii broke (drive went bad and quit reading disks) within it's first year too."

I had that happen to my GameCube. I could put a game disc in and it would read for a while but then quit and say "NO DISC." I was fuggin' pissed. I'm glad the Wii is backwards-compatible, since I got to do some runs through Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2: Echoes on it.

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I AM DOOMED TO HAUNT JACK THOMPSON'S DREAMS UNTIL HIS CRUSADE AGAINST VIDEO GAMES ENDS.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I just got mine back 3 weeks ago. Is it better to have the system on its side or laying flat, or does it matter?

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I've had one go RROD on me, earlier this year. It was a first wave con, too. The performance varies from box to box.

Hindsight is always 20-20. You can complain about it all you want, but it's not going to fix your console.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I got the RROD earlier this year after having 0 problems since launch.

It took about 2 weeks to get a machine back, and I've had no RROD problems since.

However, the machine they sent me back continually gives me a "Disc is dirty.  Please clean disc and reinsert." freeze up message.  I take the disc out, and THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.  No dirt.  No smudges.  No scratches.  Nothing.  Additionally, the machine sounds like it's loaded with Tic Tacs.  Needless to say, I'm not happy.  I went out of the way to take care of my console, I get a supplier problem, and I got a piece of shit returned to me.

 

 

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Have you tried one of those cleaner disks, with the brushes on bottom? I've heard that that helps.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I'm on my 3rd 360, 2nd PS3, and 3rd PS2.  They don't make 'em like they used to.

Not only did Microsoft rush the 360 to market, but they also took a risk with Perfect Dark Zero.  Story has it the game went gold and was manufactured without any final testing- just to get it out at launch.

Last time a console had its launch delayed until it was ready with games was the US Dreamcast launch.  And we all know how that one turned out :(  (BTW, the 9th anniversary of the Dreamcast is tomorrow- play some DC)

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I've got to agree with you.  PDZ was a piece

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

honest to God I knew in my heart that all microsoft wanted to get their system out there as fast a possible. Eventhough they may stumble they still have hundreds of loyal fans who all they do is suck Microsofts D!#K all day.

I cant stand my 360... Im allergic to second hand ignorance

Cheers

Frank_Sinatra_

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

RROD doesn't necessairly mean the console's damaged, if you turn off the console quickly after getting RROD there's a 75% chance that when you turn it on again it will be fine, I've personally partial of this, and other unorthodox stuff like the towel method.

Anyways, I'm a huge MS fan, and I'd much rather have a console that could be defectuous and repaired for free than one that's perfectly fine, but costs a crapload of money to fix

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I waited until the Elite version came out with the Falcon chipset. So far, so good.

Played Crackdown all weekend long with only one hickup (bad slowdown with that many dead criminals on the screen at once).  Wanted to play Warcraft Online, but my internet was wonky all weekend :*(

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Glad I still don't have one, though the extended warranty will have my feeling safer,.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Oh look... a buncha stuff we were already told years ago :p

Ooooh xbox... how many times must you break on me?

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I picked up an RRODed 360 on purpose, as they are cheap and plentiful, and you can easily repair them yourself. I used a kit with instructions I got for £3.40 on Ebay. If you want a 360 and you're on a budget, you might want to try that yourself. :)

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I would do the same if I had the money. I am sure that the return on the investment would more than make up for initial costs, but it is taking that first step. I would also like to do the same with blinking NESs.

E. Zachary Knight
http://www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Oh great, GP. Now you've done it. Everyone knows that 360s are more likely to fail within two weeks of posting a "you must be doing it wrong, I look after mine and it works great" comment in a RROD topic. I hope you can live with the guilt.

I'm on my third one and I'm pretty certain it's doomed too, so hopefully I can avoid the fates.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

lucky my xbox has not gotten the RROD but their is always a chance that why i dont try to play it all the time even tho it hard. It still a pain when it make louds noises and makes me wonder if it gonna go boom in the next 30 sec.

Thanks

Zaruka

 

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Thankfully, Microsoft did release those defective consoles when they did or else they would probably not be in the position they are. They had two options, and they took the one that gave them a larger installed base by the time PS3/Wii came out.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I'm was up to three 360's. I got all three of mine before microsoft admitting they had done anything wrong. I bought a service contract on each one from E B games and had to pay each time the machine was replaced for a new service contract. Looking back I should have known I was doomed the first time mine stopped working. Then like an idiot I loaned my last one to someone I had been friends with for almost a dozen years and they refused to return it to me. However, while I will say that the 360 is unreliable, the idiocy that put me in these situations was entirely my own.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I picked up a 360 at the start of the year, right after Christmas. It RROD'd on me less then a week later... I had it standing upright, on a table, in a large nearly empty room that was definitly ventilated (screen door leading out into a normally cold conservatory was right next to my 360). I got it fixed, free of charge and all that, but it still annoyed me that my shiny new $650 toy broke so easily and quickly. I'm in New Zealand btw, that was the price for a pro version.

A mate of mine modded his 360 though, and would fix his console himself when it died. He fixed it at least 3 times, and while the fixes obviously werent permanent, I can easily see how shops can make a nice extra profit fixing them and selling them on.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I've never had a RRoD, but my PS2 had to be refurbished twice for drive problems.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

Timing is also a factor.

A few days before they acknowledged that there was a problem to the public, extending the warranty to 3 years, there was a Guitar Hero II patch that came out.  If you checked online in that timeframe, you found that people were complaining that that particular patch had killed their 360... and since it was over a year since launch, many were SOL.  My buddy was one of those.  Sure enough, when he called MS, they didn't acknowledge any wrongdoing and he would have had to pay for repairs.  He traded it in with all his games and got a PS3.

I'm not saying all PS3s are error free, but the failure rate is much lower than the 360... there are some that have gone through a few PS3s... many who have not.  I know my first PS2 bit the big one late last year... I bought a new one, which was good since i didn't have the HDD for it and I had a remote I couldn't use with my first one (first PS2s didn't have an IR receiver for remotes).  That PS2 did give me 7 years of reliable service, though.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I keep all my previous generation consoles. I have [disc based units] a 3DO, Sega CD, Turbo Duo, Saturn, Playstation, Dreamcast, Gamecube and xbox that still work perfectly. A few of them are very old, the Duo was made in Jan 1993, but they all outlived the PS2 and current generation consoles.. Even my NES still works.

Maybe it has to do with going too cheap (Like MS did) or trying to shove too much crap we don't need into a system (Like Sony did). But don't forget that this is the first generation that the launch SKUs are made in China.

Previous generations were made in Japan first, then later on, newer simpler revisions came from China. Since we all know that China only makes CRAP, it could have something to do with the high failure rate of the 360, PS3 and Wii.

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of

I'm all for freedom of ttnet vitamin speech and allowing rent a car game makers to put whatever they want in games, but there's one thing about this app that has me scratching my head.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but from araç kiralama the previous article araba kiralama on this I gathered that players can use Google maps in-game to find the other (real-life?) dealers in their area.  If this is the case, has travesti anyone considered what's stopping someone from using this app to actually move drugs between hands for reals?

But majority araba kiralama of their outrage araç kiralama stems from what it could DO TO children, not the content itself.  Talk to one of these people and you'll find they don't think any books kiralık araba should be banned from children.  Mention American Psycho and they talk about kiralık araç the redeeming value of using imagination to construct a story.  Reading, no matter what the content, is largely viewed as a consequenceless activity for people of any age.  The reason why I mention American Psycho is because of the content itself.  Gaming never has and likely never will have any scenes where someone has sex with a severed head.  Not gonna happen.  Yet despite this, they'll fight tooth and nail to protect their children from two boys kissing in Bully but whatever they read is harmless... yeah.

The entire arguement is kiralık oto based upon a social normality inflicted by luddites who can't figure out the controls for Halo so it's frightening and terrifying and obviously the cause of youth violence on the rise even though, in reality, it's in decline (which is actually a HUGE suprise given minibüs kiralama the economies status).  In  a perfect world, we would have parents that actually parent.  The idea of sales restrictions on media on oto kiralama any form to accomidate parental unwillingness to get involved with their child's life is the real problem to me.  Here I am, 32 years old, and being held up at a self-scan rent a car needing to show ID before I can buy a $10 M rated game all because Soccer Momthra can't be bothered to look at the crap Billy Genericallystupidson does in his free time.  It's too hard for her, so I have to suffer?

Re: Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings ...

Thanks good job;

Btw, I think Atari and Midway will drop out too, but mostly travesti because  these guys have done nothing travesti or little and need to start saving costs. and dizi izle

YES.

Now I don't have to get off my ass for the important shit anymore!

Whats next, ordering pizza from Xbox live?

Wait... I think that sounds like a good idea.

But I think voting should MAKE you get off your ass, and see outside or a second while you go vote. I mean, your picking the president of the United States of America for God's Sake... least you can do is drive down there and punch out a card.

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 11/07/09 at 04:27pm
ZippyDSMlee: man I got alot of junk and dup files too >< god I need orginization...and no not the knee capping media mafia kind :P
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:26pm
ZippyDSMlee: replaced :P
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:23pm
ZippyDSMlee: beemoh:hey its like 60GB porn,400GB anime 100GB games and crap I have took from all my DVDs, I hate waiting on dvds to install stuff..... oh and 40GB of my porn was in the found.000 folder...mostly corrupted.... least I got names of wut needs to be repa
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:18pm
beemoh: @Zip: ...and you'd have to spend all that time re-downloading that porn?
Posted 11/07/09 at 03:34pm
ZippyDSMlee: ggrrrrr......vista lost one of my hard drives and I had a heart attack thinking I lost 1TB of data....
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:58am
JDKJ: Which could be explained by both (a) and (b).
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:56am
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: You forgot C) the fact that, for some reason, every time he did something that would suggest he shouldn't be in the military, let alone an officer, higher ups ignored it or let it slide.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:51am
JDKJ: Part of the problem is, I believe, that (a) the Army had a lot of time and money already invested in him and which they were unwilling to simply write-off and (b) an increasing need for the type of skills and services he provided.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:48am
JDKJ: And that even if he was begging not to get cut loose, he was apparently a real good candidate for being cut loose, anyway.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:11am
JDKJ: @chada: And while Kennedy once noted that there's usually more than enough blame for everyone to get a slice, the possibility that the Army was unwilling to cut loose someone who was asking to get cut loose could be a factor.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:07am
ZippyDSMlee: *noms on his feet*..nomnomnomnom*droooll* ...wuuutttttt uuu looking at?
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:05am
JDKJ: I'm no psychologist, but I'm told that crazy people have a tendency to do crazy things.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:03am
chadachada321: Whoops, was out of the convo for awhile. I do wonder what type of ammo he used etc, but the real issue is WHY he did it, not HOW
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:56am
JDKJ: But if it turns out that they actually did, they'll have Hell to pay.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:45am
JDKJ: And I'd tend to rule out the possibilty of FN Herstal supplying restricted ammunition to someone merely because they're ordering it from a military base.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:37am
JDKJ: I know you don't leave your gated community and get around much in dark alleys, so you may be surprised to learn that there's this thing called "the black market" where, if you've got enough money, ain't too much of anything which can't be bought.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:36am
Austin_Lewis: Or, maybe he or someone else at the base ordered the SS190 from FN Herstal.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:32am
Austin_Lewis: the hands of private owners. They run about 300 dollars minimum for a box of 50, and boxes of AP 5.7 are extremely scarce, mainly residing in the hands of Class III stores or individuals who for one reason or another got a demo box of it.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:30am
Austin_Lewis: There are other firearms that fire the 5.7. However, I too would like to know where he got the ammo and what kind was used. Maybe Hasan, planning not to live through this, went out and bought one the boxes of SS190 that are floating around in
Posted 11/07/09 at 08:44am
JDKJ: And it isn't yet clear what type of ammunition Hasan used. It's strange that he purchased a gun but didn't purchase ammunition for it at the same place and time. Especially because the calibre required is peculiar to the actual gun.
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