Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of Death
Dean Takahashi's Investigative Report on the Red Rings of Death
September 8, 2008
Last summer, when Microsoft finally admitted to consumers that it had a major problem with the Xbox 360 and its infamous Red Rings of Death, I recall thinking that if anyone could get to the bottom of the situation it would be Dean Takahashi, then of the San Jose Mercury-News.
Dean had already proven his ability to uncover MS dirt as the author of a pair of excellent books detailing the inside story of the creation of both the original Xbox and the 360 (Opening the Xbox, 2002 & The Xbox 360 Uncloaked, 2006).
Since the RROD story broke, Dean has moved on to VentureBeat, where he has penned the definitive story to date on the Xbox 360 fiasco. It's a must-read, as he details how a rushed and very flawed manufacturing process left consumers with a machine dealing with an incredibly high failure rate (GP: Personally, I've had three go RROD on me). Here's a brief excerpt:
The problem for Microsoft was that it sacrificed something to rush into the market and establish the Xbox 360 as the premiere platform of the living room. What it sacrificed was the good will of consumers, who are actually critical in terms of establishing a lasting platform...
One thing is clear. Microsoft has to move beyond its mentality of being a software company that can launch fast and fix later. With global markets and global launches, the consequences of such a cavalier approach to hardware quality can start to pile up. The company clearly has the cash and the size to compete among the best hardware companies out there. It cannot afford to tarnish its brand when competitors on various fronts — such as Google on the web side and Apple, Sony, and Nintendo on the hardware side — are there to exploit its stumbles.
GP: Dean's findings on the 360's manufacturing woes clears up a lot of misinformation, including the silly notion that surge protectors were causing the RROD.
A PUBLICATION OF THE ECA
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LOGINGamePolitics ShoutBox
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:50pm
d.vel.oper: @sql: Messaged. Though I do so enjoy geeking up the shoutbox.
d.vel.oper: @sql: Messaged. Though I do so enjoy geeking up the shoutbox.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:49pm
PHX Corp: No, not at all
PHX Corp: No, not at all
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:49pm
sqlrob: @PHX: Is that one of the signs of the apocalypse?
sqlrob: @PHX: Is that one of the signs of the apocalypse?
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:44pm
PHX Corp: Bill o'reilly finally advocated commonsense concerning violent Video Games (He said that parents need to watch out what their children play)
PHX Corp: Bill o'reilly finally advocated commonsense concerning violent Video Games (He said that parents need to watch out what their children play)
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:43pm
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: Do you have any networking experience? Private message me, this nick on LiveJournal so we can talk in more detail
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: Do you have any networking experience? Private message me, this nick on LiveJournal so we can talk in more detail
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:42pm
d.vel.oper: Might have to wait until the New Year, finances, etc.
d.vel.oper: Might have to wait until the New Year, finances, etc.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:42pm
d.vel.oper: I'm in Central Florida, but since the job sounds fun, I wouldn't be against relocation.
d.vel.oper: I'm in Central Florida, but since the job sounds fun, I wouldn't be against relocation.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:39pm
sqlrob: @@d.vel.oper: Where are you? We're in Austin
sqlrob: @@d.vel.oper: Where are you? We're in Austin
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:37pm
d.vel.oper: @sqlrob: Always looking, always hooking :P I didn't finish college, and haven't worked on any big projects. But I love hooking.
d.vel.oper: @sqlrob: Always looking, always hooking :P I didn't finish college, and haven't worked on any big projects. But I love hooking.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:35pm
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: You looking for a job? Where I work thef first thought for fixing something is hooking.
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: You looking for a job? Where I work thef first thought for fixing something is hooking.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:35pm
d.vel.oper: So you can write JS scripts that use the Steam API, kinda like plugins and such.
d.vel.oper: So you can write JS scripts that use the Steam API, kinda like plugins and such.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:34pm
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: I don't trust squat at ring 0. If it can't install as non-privileged user, I don't want it (games)
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: I don't trust squat at ring 0. If it can't install as non-privileged user, I don't want it (games)
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:34pm
d.vel.oper: ...basically, a Steam extender.
d.vel.oper: ...basically, a Steam extender.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:34pm
d.vel.oper: I'm working on mucking about with Steam right now. Writing a multi-hook with a JavaScript (Google V8) scripting engine...
d.vel.oper: I'm working on mucking about with Steam right now. Writing a multi-hook with a JavaScript (Google V8) scripting engine...
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:33pm
d.vel.oper: Usually via my own C++ code, and ASM stubs.
d.vel.oper: Usually via my own C++ code, and ASM stubs.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:32pm
d.vel.oper: So I do alot of RE, and run-time code modification.
d.vel.oper: So I do alot of RE, and run-time code modification.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:32pm
d.vel.oper: @sqlrob: I mainly subvert game cheat protections, which are basically rootkits themselves.
d.vel.oper: @sqlrob: I mainly subvert game cheat protections, which are basically rootkits themselves.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:14pm
sqlrob: I've written POC malware that AV wouldn't have a chance against, never mind the deals copy protection have made with them.
sqlrob: I've written POC malware that AV wouldn't have a chance against, never mind the deals copy protection have made with them.
Posted 12/01/08 at 10:09pm
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: Most of what I did was user space, a little kernel.. Lots of RE, both of Windows and malware
sqlrob: @d.vel.oper: Most of what I did was user space, a little kernel.. Lots of RE, both of Windows and malware
Posted 12/01/08 at 09:51pm
Michael Chandra: @sqlrob: Except for that many of the old and new games I like will be spread around so much that 6 consoles is more expensive.
Michael Chandra: @sqlrob: Except for that many of the old and new games I like will be spread around so much that 6 consoles is more expensive.
Copyright © 2007 ECA. All rights reserved.
Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Comments
I'm glad I don't have a 360 yet. Hopefully this silliness will be over by the time I pick one up.
Sony got the PS2 to market ahead of Nintendo and MS and I don't recall that console having a glaring technical failing.
There was a recall on the AC adaptors with the first batch of slim models, as well as the drive issue. But they did handle those a HELL of a lot better than Microsoft did. As well, they didn't rush out the product to be first.
It was funny though. When I was in game retail, during a christmas period, I saw a minimum 10% failure on the 360s (we got in 300 of them, 30 returns in the first 2 weeks). Over the course of the year since the PS3 launched, there was a hanful of returns (with a couple hundred units sold) and I never saw a Wii returned. A little delay works wonders.
I have a PS2 from 2003. Never had a problem with it. I use it as my primary dvd player and game machine. It gets a work out almost everyday. Never had a problem with it.
E. Zachary Knight
http://www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
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I can't remember but the DRE issues on the PS2 plagued 3 revisions out of the current 15 revisions of the PS2, it was a revision before 4 revision 9(or around it) and 12(or around it) I think...anyway they tried to cut cost on the lens units.
Other wise the PS2 was made a solid, the Xbox had heating issues but for the most part worked. the 360 has had 3-5X of a fail rate compared to them.
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)
yes, but the xbox blew the PS2 away in hardware and graphics whereas xbox 360 and PS3 are in the same league
Yes, that's true except, just because you have the most "tricked out graphics," does not mean "Innovation!" as you well know i'm talking Wiimote! Analog sticks can be fun, but these days, i'm looking to add a little more spice in my games if you know what I mean? I'm not dissing the PS3, just the 360 for craptastic hardware and dumb moves like push out now, then fix later... look at Vista: EPIC FAIL!!! (thats what they say in WoW, right?)
Jesus Jack Jones Thompson told me to do it!
Sorry, but your comment is a fail. The 360 is not in the same league as the ps3. The 360 is limited to 3 cpu's and a crappy gpu with shity ram. The ps3 has a cell processor that is based of of stream processing that is able to run a lot more than what it's doing now. The main reason the games look simular in terms of graphics is that developers are not going to take the time to optimize the graphics for the ps3.
Are you kidding?
I had "Disk Read Error" on two of my PS2s.
Only time i've had that happen to me was with a gameshark disc. And that's probably just because its... well... a gameshark.
I'm guessing the RRODs are more bound to happen on certain SKUs and release batches. I got an Arcade 360 for Christmas and haven't encountered any hardware problems so far.
Not really. It seems to happen randomly. People with the same SKU and batch have such widely varying results, it is almost scary.
E. Zachary Knight
http://www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091
You shouldn't have any problem with the arcade version, actually. I believe they pretty well had that fixed by the time that SKU was available.
I guess it's a reasonable explanation. Plus, the Premium has always been much more popular than the Core/Arcade system, so you don't hear much from those owners.
I guess I'd rather have the reputation of being the console prone to break but repaired for free than the console that has no games. MS made the right choice shipping the faulty console. They got the userbase which means they became the more attractive option for exclusive developer deals. So much so that Sony couldn't even keep Final Fantasy exclusive.
And as far as sacrificing customer good will, I redringed once, got it fixed in a week for free. No hard feelings. My Wii broke (drive went bad and quit reading disks) within it's first year too.
Every console I've had since they started including wear items (disc drives) has broken. It's gonna happen.
"My Wii broke (drive went bad and quit reading disks) within it's first year too."
I had that happen to my GameCube. I could put a game disc in and it would read for a while but then quit and say "NO DISC." I was fuggin' pissed. I'm glad the Wii is backwards-compatible, since I got to do some runs through Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2: Echoes on it.
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I AM DOOMED TO HAUNT JACK THOMPSON'S DREAMS UNTIL HIS CRUSADE AGAINST VIDEO GAMES ENDS.
I just got mine back 3 weeks ago. Is it better to have the system on its side or laying flat, or does it matter?
I've had one go RROD on me, earlier this year. It was a first wave con, too. The performance varies from box to box.
Hindsight is always 20-20. You can complain about it all you want, but it's not going to fix your console.
I got the RROD earlier this year after having 0 problems since launch.
It took about 2 weeks to get a machine back, and I've had no RROD problems since.
However, the machine they sent me back continually gives me a "Disc is dirty. Please clean disc and reinsert." freeze up message. I take the disc out, and THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. No dirt. No smudges. No scratches. Nothing. Additionally, the machine sounds like it's loaded with Tic Tacs. Needless to say, I'm not happy. I went out of the way to take care of my console, I get a supplier problem, and I got a piece of shit returned to me.
Have you tried one of those cleaner disks, with the brushes on bottom? I've heard that that helps.
I'm on my 3rd 360, 2nd PS3, and 3rd PS2. They don't make 'em like they used to.
Not only did Microsoft rush the 360 to market, but they also took a risk with Perfect Dark Zero. Story has it the game went gold and was manufactured without any final testing- just to get it out at launch.
Last time a console had its launch delayed until it was ready with games was the US Dreamcast launch. And we all know how that one turned out :( (BTW, the 9th anniversary of the Dreamcast is tomorrow- play some DC)
I've got to agree with you. PDZ was a piece
honest to God I knew in my heart that all microsoft wanted to get their system out there as fast a possible. Eventhough they may stumble they still have hundreds of loyal fans who all they do is suck Microsofts D!#K all day.
I cant stand my 360... Im allergic to second hand ignorance
Cheers
Frank_Sinatra_
RROD doesn't necessairly mean the console's damaged, if you turn off the console quickly after getting RROD there's a 75% chance that when you turn it on again it will be fine, I've personally partial of this, and other unorthodox stuff like the towel method.
Anyways, I'm a huge MS fan, and I'd much rather have a console that could be defectuous and repaired for free than one that's perfectly fine, but costs a crapload of money to fix
I waited until the Elite version came out with the Falcon chipset. So far, so good.
Played Crackdown all weekend long with only one hickup (bad slowdown with that many dead criminals on the screen at once). Wanted to play Warcraft Online, but my internet was wonky all weekend :*(
Glad I still don't have one, though the extended warranty will have my feeling safer,.
Oh look... a buncha stuff we were already told years ago :p
Ooooh xbox... how many times must you break on me?
I picked up an RRODed 360 on purpose, as they are cheap and plentiful, and you can easily repair them yourself. I used a kit with instructions I got for £3.40 on Ebay. If you want a 360 and you're on a budget, you might want to try that yourself. :)
I would do the same if I had the money. I am sure that the return on the investment would more than make up for initial costs, but it is taking that first step. I would also like to do the same with blinking NESs.
E. Zachary Knight
http://www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091
Oh great, GP. Now you've done it. Everyone knows that 360s are more likely to fail within two weeks of posting a "you must be doing it wrong, I look after mine and it works great" comment in a RROD topic. I hope you can live with the guilt.
I'm on my third one and I'm pretty certain it's doomed too, so hopefully I can avoid the fates.
lucky my xbox has not gotten the RROD but their is always a chance that why i dont try to play it all the time even tho it hard. It still a pain when it make louds noises and makes me wonder if it gonna go boom in the next 30 sec.
Thanks
Zaruka
Thankfully, Microsoft did release those defective consoles when they did or else they would probably not be in the position they are. They had two options, and they took the one that gave them a larger installed base by the time PS3/Wii came out.
I'm was up to three 360's. I got all three of mine before microsoft admitting they had done anything wrong. I bought a service contract on each one from E B games and had to pay each time the machine was replaced for a new service contract. Looking back I should have known I was doomed the first time mine stopped working. Then like an idiot I loaned my last one to someone I had been friends with for almost a dozen years and they refused to return it to me. However, while I will say that the 360 is unreliable, the idiocy that put me in these situations was entirely my own.
I picked up a 360 at the start of the year, right after Christmas. It RROD'd on me less then a week later... I had it standing upright, on a table, in a large nearly empty room that was definitly ventilated (screen door leading out into a normally cold conservatory was right next to my 360). I got it fixed, free of charge and all that, but it still annoyed me that my shiny new $650 toy broke so easily and quickly. I'm in New Zealand btw, that was the price for a pro version.
A mate of mine modded his 360 though, and would fix his console himself when it died. He fixed it at least 3 times, and while the fixes obviously werent permanent, I can easily see how shops can make a nice extra profit fixing them and selling them on.
I've never had a RRoD, but my PS2 had to be refurbished twice for drive problems.
Timing is also a factor.
A few days before they acknowledged that there was a problem to the public, extending the warranty to 3 years, there was a Guitar Hero II patch that came out. If you checked online in that timeframe, you found that people were complaining that that particular patch had killed their 360... and since it was over a year since launch, many were SOL. My buddy was one of those. Sure enough, when he called MS, they didn't acknowledge any wrongdoing and he would have had to pay for repairs. He traded it in with all his games and got a PS3.
I'm not saying all PS3s are error free, but the failure rate is much lower than the 360... there are some that have gone through a few PS3s... many who have not. I know my first PS2 bit the big one late last year... I bought a new one, which was good since i didn't have the HDD for it and I had a remote I couldn't use with my first one (first PS2s didn't have an IR receiver for remotes). That PS2 did give me 7 years of reliable service, though.
I keep all my previous generation consoles. I have [disc based units] a 3DO, Sega CD, Turbo Duo, Saturn, Playstation, Dreamcast, Gamecube and xbox that still work perfectly. A few of them are very old, the Duo was made in Jan 1993, but they all outlived the PS2 and current generation consoles.. Even my NES still works.
Maybe it has to do with going too cheap (Like MS did) or trying to shove too much crap we don't need into a system (Like Sony did). But don't forget that this is the first generation that the launch SKUs are made in China.
Previous generations were made in Japan first, then later on, newer simpler revisions came from China. Since we all know that China only makes CRAP, it could have something to do with the high failure rate of the 360, PS3 and Wii.