Creationist Site Targets Spore

September 10, 2008 -

Who knew that Spore would be so controversial?

First there was the DRM madness that has enraged so many gamers. Now an apparent creationist site refers to Will Wright's long-awaited game an "attack on Christian values."

Anti-Spore (there is some speculation that the site is a hoax) went live just a day after Spore's September 7th release. The site's opening post sums up its focus:

Yesterday I found out about a new game called Spore when my son asked me to buy it for him.  It looked innocent enough at first and has “E for Everyone” ESRB rating.  But don’t be mislead, apparently “everyone” means everyone they want to teach evolution to.

 

This entire game is propaganda aimed directly at our children to teach them evolution instead of creationism, or “intelligent design” ...

 

I decided that Electronic Arts needs to hear from concerned people such as myself that this sort of game is not acceptable, and created this blog to find support and share information and progress with anyone who feels the same as I do.

Indeed, the domain name, which is private, was registered on September 8th. The anonymous author claims to be a wife and mother and writes that she has received hate mail and death threats over her Spore views.

The site also tosses in this small bit of politics:

I got a message from the supposed mayor of McCamish, KS [a suburb of Kansas City]. Claiming that he will make sure the game is kept out of their store. I have no way to verify the info, though.

Via: bit-tech.net


Comments

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

I personally believe that it's possible to have both the theory of elevlution, and creation.

But anyway, not every damn thing in the world has to be Christian. I hate the loud Christian (take note that I said loud Christian) They believe that everyone have to believe in them, and they are the only right ones. It's like OMG! God of War only values Greek's believes! It's Anti-Christian, so we must stop it.

Even thought that didn't happen, I feel that it's the same thing.

And one more thing. Spore has nothing to do with Man kind, or Earth in general. Maybe there are creatures that God lets free, and allow them to change.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Mmm, smells like poe.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

 To quote a friend of mine that happens to be both a scientist and a devout Christian: "I don't get why other Christians think if evolution is true then God can't exist. If anything, having something like evolution goes to prove that God can do some pretty amazing things."

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

It doesn't disprove God, but it does disprove the story of Genisis. For some christians, the text of the Bible has become more important than the message it contains.

I once asked a friend of mine who was a devout, "If science proved, without a doubt, that the Bible was a work of fiction would you stop living your life by it?"

He said "Yes. If the Bible was a lie than it cannot be the work of God."

And I said, "Even a work of fiction can have good solid truths to live your life by. The ten commandments are good commandments. You should put your faith in the message instead of the table of contents."

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

It may not neccessarily disprove Genesis, I mean, the stuff in the Bible is not meant to be taken in literally word-for-word, like the part about Jesus "rebuilding the temple in 3 days", he wasn't going to tear the place down and rebuild it, he was giving a metaphor.

But then you're right about how some modern Christians go about with the Bible nowadays, and your opinion about the Bible's messages work, even though I'm not going to say it to my teacher's face or she'll fail me.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Everything about the site screams hoax, it has a very tounge in  cheek writing style to it that doesn't sound like it's coming from an actual fundamentalist. The WHOIS info favors a hoax as well, what religious freak job would use a registrar wroght with criminality? (What does Jesus say about hiding your WHOIS info behind a proxy?) I personally am 95% sure someone is trying to get Will Wright's (and your) goat.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

For some reason, these fundamentalist types make me think of "A Hand Maiden's Tale". Someone prove me wrong about this, please!

 

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Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

You mean the "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood? Yeah, religious fundamentalism and patriarchal control over female reproductive rights were themes in that story. But I wouldn't see that specifically having to do with the whole creationism/evolution argument specifically.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Eh, I don't think so. A Handmaiden's Tale would be closer to Children of Men (to bring it to a more modern setting here.) In that something, be it a biological agent or otherwise caused men (or people in the case of children of men.) to go sterile.

 

That being said, now that you've reminded me of it I'm really creeped out. I'm going to go around calling all the women I know "Offred"

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

I know that the whole evolution thing is more about how life as we know it came to be and so is creationism. Both just have two views of how life as we know it came to be.

Why can't we just drop both from education courses? One is based on faith and the other is based on theory. Why can't we just focus on the biology of life as it is today? what does it matter how it came about? What really matters is how it currently works. That is what we really need to understand.

Sure it makes for great conversation and debate when we try to figure out how it came to be, but that is not what is important.

E. Zachary Knight
http://www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

/Puts professional hat on.

"One is based on faith and the other is based on theory."

Others have dealt with this already, but I'll reiterate. "Theory" in scientific terms, is a predictive framework supported by evidence cf. a hypothesis which is an untested idea.

"Why can't we just focus on the biology of life as it is today?"

Not without addressing evolution, even the most basic research is dependent on the theory. For example, why do you think we test drugs on animals if it isn't because we're evolutionarily related? How do you think we know what our genes do? Much of the functional data is derived from studies in flies and other vertebrates. How something (i.e. a gene) currently works in humans is quite dependent on where it evolved from and what other organisms possess it now. Hell without comparative genomics we'd not have the first clue what swathes of human genes did, and without mice to compare ourselves to your immune system would be a mystery! Do you seriously think biology could be taught to an acceptable level while ignoring  the evolutionary elephant in the room?

Gift.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Ah.  I knew there was some reason I came here.  Actually rational comments to posts.
 

To build on Gift's comments.

Yeah, in science, a "theory" must both both be supported by and take into account all evidence and experiments performed so far.  A "Theory" is as true as a "Law", the primary difference being a "law" is more of a simple underlying concept that can be explained in 1 or 2 sentences, while a "Theory" is a conclusion and "model" that encompasses or accounts for all scientific "Laws".  Each is changable and fluid if evidence disagrees with current theories (Take for instance, in Physics, The law of Conservation of Mass, as initially described, was proven to be innacurrate, it is now "The Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy".)  It should also be noted, that Biology by it's nature is focused only on the material.  The "Why" is irrelevent, except in speculation, in fact the only times Biology contradicts with the "God did it" view, is in statements that it possibly (not that it did) occured spontaneously (ultimately most ID "reasonable" claims against Evolution argue with points of mere probability than anything else).

As for evolution, weither a person thinks it is true or not, it is the model for life that all Biology and Medicine for the past hundred years has been based upon.  If it wasn't relevent, we would never have to develop new flu vaccines, or antibacterial products to keep people alive.

Evolution needs to be taught with Biology, because... it is modern biology.  They are no longer seperable.  And besides, if it didn't occur, at least on the small scale, some of my experiments would work a lot better.  (Darned cells developing resistances to my modifications.)

 

 

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Exactly.  People are so quick to just label evolution as 'history'.  I thought it rather hilarious when a fundamentalist Catholic I knew would argue against evolution until he was blue in the face, yet the day before he'd more or less been describing the exact same process to me in regards to pests developing resistance to pesticides.  At some point evolution needs to be taught in biology - if you prefer to ignore it on the grounds of your religion, there's absolutely no point in pursuing any further study or research in that field. 

Even if that site is a hoax, there will be people out there who will cry foul of Spore for it.  And that's a real shame - I think Spore could even count as a form of edutainment.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Sadly, it's taught already. It isn't taught to nearly the extent that it should be, which is why you have people walking around with no idea what the theory says.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

"One is based on faith and the other is based on theory."

Actually, evolution is based on fact. Contrary to what IDers would like you to believe, there is absolutely no controversy about evolution in scientific circles. You get a few scientists like Behe promoting the notion of intelligent design, but these people's views on ID have almost no support among scientists.

Evolution is science, ID is not. Evolution belongs in science class, ID does not.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

I hate it when people say "just a theory" or "is theory" like it's someone just guessing with no real proof or evidence.

Evolution has evidence all over the place. people dig them up all the time, and there are links from one species to another. hell, our DNA even shows we are related to everything on this planet. someone once thought "hey... that monkey looks like us... maybe we are from apes... somehow" that, isn't a theory, that is a guess. then someone found caveman skeletons and all those other types in caves and in africa. they looked at their age, put them side by side and said "hmmm, this evidence seems to show progression... this may show why we resemble apes and where, us as a species (not as life) came from. but we can't observe this happening... so we can't call it fact. we can't watch it happen.... so what should we call it?" THEORY! theory is something that has evidence, that has things backing it up, but just can't be observed or 100% proven BECAUSE you can't observe it. the awesome thing about theory is that it can change, that new evidence can pop up and make things clearer.

The difference between the evolution theory and Creationism, is that creationism has no room to change. they don't want change, infact, they fear it. no new evidence can pop up, and if new evidence does, it is selected to try to convince people that its part of this idea. in theory you find evidence, make a connection, and make your best education hypothosis based on it. creationism is you come up with the hypothosis and find evidence to prove it. that isn't science.

Science is not a religion. it changes, and molds to new evidence and new discoveries every day. if a theory is proven wrong, a good scientist doesn't get mad, they are happy! because they have an answer, even if that answer is "no". Creationism doesn't want a "no" they already believe it is a "yes" and they will selectivly choose what evidence they want, to make it seem that way.

I belive both. i believe in god, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in evolution. how come we have to look at it as the "this is" as oppose to "why it is". faith isn't easy, it isn't suppose to be. so why would god, if he exsists, make it easy?

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Creationism is actually more like starting with the conclusion and trying to find evidence to support it,

Science is: observation, hypothesis, prediction, experiment(which is where the evidence is discovered), and analizing the data.

 

United we Stand, Divided we fall.

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Evolution is how it works. Modern biology doesn't make much sense without it. Evolution describes how the variations that we see in todays life came to be: through competition between differing individuals in specific environments. It doesn't actually cover the origins of life; it covers the origins of diversity in life.

The study of how life got started is abiogenesis, which isn't taught in middle or high schools. Abiogenesis lies outside the scope of evolution.

Theories, in science, are a heavily tested set of hypotheses. They are as close to facts as any metatheory can be.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Actually, evolution just explains the developing of new species, but not the origin of life.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Sorry, that is how I was trying to word it. didn't come out right.

E. Zachary Knight
http://www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Intelligent design being in quotes makes me think it's a hoax... or as much as the "ilovebees.com," or whatever the Halo 2 one was...

If true, though, it proves that there are parents who DON'T try to find out what the game is.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Whiny religious morons = EPIC FAIL

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Incorrect. The correct answer is "ULTIMATE Fail."

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Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

This entire game is propaganda aimed directly at our children to teach them evolution instead of creationism, or “intelligent design” ...

That right there smacks of a hoax. I have never, ever, heard any of the IDers talk like this. They don't put quotes around "intelligent design" and they rarely refer to what they believe as "creationism". They rail against how evolution is unscientific and false, and how the literal translation fo the Bible is the truth. They do not say "teach evolution instead of creationism.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

I think the best "religious" comment about Spore was by Stephen Colbert when Wil Wright was on The Colbert Report.

"So, basically this is a game about sex?"

I almost did a spit-take when I saw that show...

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

When was this? I don't recall this episode.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

I've always found the "evolution"/"intelligent design" argument to be frustratingly silly.  I mean, why can't they both be true?  This game certainly seems to find them compatible.  I suppose people just like to argue.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Ya'know, I've always asked the same thing.  There's a quote from South Park that sums it up; "Why can't evolution be the how instead of the why?"  I'd say with the majority of people this concept is perfectly acceptable or at the very least any reasonable person could agree to disagree.

However the hardcore crowd in both of the two camps (Christians and athiests) hate the idea of compromise.

For the fundie Christian, the Bible is 100% literal and the Truth.  Period.  Anything that may question or go aganist it is wrong.  For these fanatical sects (I know not all of ya'll Christians are this insane, chill out. :) ) there is no compromise.  Many of them would like to see America become a theocracy.

As for the hardcore athiests the idea of mixing religion into a scientific theory is something akin to blasphemy.  To them to do so is trying to insert religion into a field where they feel it has no place since it isn't "rational" or because it can't be proven.

Basically you're dealing with two groups who "know" that they are "right" and everyone else is "wrong".  To compromise would be to admit that, at least in part, the group in question doesn't actually know that they are 100% right and that's something neither one can deal with.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

"Why can't evolution be the how instead of the why?"

Well as a scientist let me say evolution (and science in general) is most definitely about the how, not why. "Why" is the realm of philosophy and religion, not science.

Plenty of people seem quite comfortable with the distinction in my experience, sometimes I just think the internet makes the argument look like there's no seeing eye to eye. Which is daft really as even the devout needn't have trouble with the science, take Ken Miller for example.

Gift.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

It's not just aetheists, but those who don't share the christian dogmatic view of the creation.

If you look at the facts, Creationism and Intelligent design do not belong in a Science class. Science is about proof supporting conclusions. God exists on faith, not proof. There is no proof for the supposition for intelligent design.

There is room for these creationism and ID in a philosophy or theology course. Unfortunately, christians and IDers don't want to share the spotlight with other religious idealogies. Besides, if they can smuggle their viewpoint into a science class, it perpetuates an assumption that these concepts are fact.

BTW, why aren't churches teaching evolution? Oh, that's right, because education and religion are separate entities.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

What would you know about what goes on in churches? Your opening sentence indicates your ignorance of Christianity.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

I was raised as a christian. I know what goes on in church. I've even attended Lutheran, Baptist, and Protestant services.

And my opening sentence says nothing about my ignorance of chrisitanity. It says I know more than you on the subject matter.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Are arguing that religion and science mixed should be tought in school? 

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

 The atheists are just opposed to teaching this BS in public school system, which the fundies are trying to do. Atheists honestly couldn't care less what fundamentalists believe as long as they keep it to themselves.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

The way these fundies talk about God, it's like he's selling out.

If their God wasn't such a sell-out we wouldn't have much of a problem with shoving beliefs into other people. I mean, they take the promise of heaven as part of a religious conversion quota. You're talking about faith, not about how you can make crazy money selling term life insurance.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

The "intelligent design" movement is spearheaded by the Discovery Insitute. This organization considers evolution to be a false dotrine meant to spread atheism and persecute the true believers. They subscribe to the "world in six literal Earth days" interpretation of the Bible and reject any other suggestion as heresy.

Most Christians regard evolution as true, and many believe that God shaped evolution.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Wouldn't be surprised if it's real.  Some of the things actual fundies believe, like the secret One World Order, that Wicca is Satanism-lite, rock music has subliminal beats ment to turn kids into savages, etc. etc. are more far-out than this site. 

It could be a hoax, but who would actually spend the money and the time to create a site like this?

If it's a hoax, well, it's not all that funny.  If it's real...meh, fundies aren't happy unless they can make someone else unhappy.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

I know that rock music lead me down the path to the devil.  Then I was saved by Alice Cooper. (SARCASM)

After thinking it through, I decided to add the sarcasm tag in case people thought I was serious.  If you're so weak minded that you get your views from a musician, a movie star, or a movie or video game, you should probably not be allowed to vote, drive, reproduce, or own firearms.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

The problem is that Spore, while not an "Ultra-Violent" (I still dont know what that means) game apparently steps into the realms of religious beliefs.   Be the Anti-Spore site a hoax of not would not matter if you can make people beleive their religious views (or lack thereof) are being tramped on.  

There have been several attempts to force the public school system to change how history and biology are taught because they teach evolution and religion claims creationism,  could someone do less to a game? Slippy slope at best and prone to violence. 

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Dude all these religious guys aren't going to accomplish much of anything. Why would EA or any company for that matter change their game to appease a small group of people who probably have no interest in buying the game anyway.

Fun fact: After the whole church of england resistance fiasco, someone at Insomniac has promised to include more churches in Resistance 2.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

If public schools are not allowed to force public prayer onto their students, they cannot require the teaching of religious tenets either. For parents that are dissatisfied about the lack of religious teachings there's, well, parochial schools. Yeah, it's too bad those don't exist >_>

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

This is why i don't like religion, most of the people take the bible way to seriously and want to make sure that no one has fun. Now you have aetheists who are pissed off just because you play as god. ITS A GAME PEOPLE, STFU AND HAVE SOME FUN WITH IT!!! I rather have the DRM Bawwers than the bible humpers crying about everything.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

i looked at the site. The person running it is too thick headed to be a hoax. when she found out that the sporn was being removed (in july) she reported that it was because of "her efforts" even though they had done so... two months before...

and many commenters note that the game actually promotes intelligent design, since the "evolution" is chosen by the player.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

This wouldn't be a problem if all Christian games except for Halo weren't all shit.  I'm sure she was fine with Left Behind which is still the best Christian game ever made, which speaks to the genre as a whole.

 

I have no problem with them, really I don't.  But I don't like them censoring stuff they don't agree with.  Like I don't particularly enjoy a Noah's Ark inspired racing game... but I'm not going to buy it.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

"This wouldn't be a problem if all Christian games except for Halo weren't all shit" -sheppy

Halo is not a christian game.  Halo uses christian imagry, but the plot about how humans are genetically engineered by aliens and.. well.. the way it illustrates the aliens as being horrificaly evil religious zealots...

 

so no.. not very christian

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

You know, my post is right above yours.  You don't have to quote me directly under the post you quoted.. seems redundant.

Also, depends on how you look at it.  Sure, the aliens appear to be overly religious zealots, but so is the group that protests during soldiers funerals with their signs sayign that's God's punishment for allowing "fags."  Creepy little alien dude or creepy little preacher dude, both are idiots.

You can't just claim a section of your sect, mang.  Some christians ARE like the aliens in Halo.  Hell, my aunt is one of them.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

I have an aunt that's kind of like that too. Is yours a member of Jehova's Witnesses?

Let me take this chance to bring up an anecdote. 10 years ago our family went shopping at Toys-R-Us and for my younger brother, our mom put a red Power Rangers action figure in the shopping cart. My aunt told her to put it back saying she doesn't like the Power Ranger for its...color. Yes, the Red Ranger is evil because he wears the colors of satan!

(no clue if actual red clothing is bad for you. She wears red clothes sometimes)

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Is yours a member of Jehova's Witnesses?

My uncle is one, but he aint as bad as my pentecostal aunt.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Oh, I haven't ran across any Pentecostals. May not be too common in my area since I rarely see a church by them.

Re: Creationist Site Targets Spore

Agreed. The Pentacostals in my family are far worse pests than the Jehova's Witnesses or Mormans... haven't dealt with any Scientologists yet, thankfully. I have no patience for people who resfuse to respect my spiritual decisions for myself.

 
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