Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into DRM Protest

September 15, 2008 -

Frustrated by Spore's egregious DRM scheme? 

Evolve a protest creature.

GameCulture reports that Spore owners are using the game's extensive content creation tools to speak out against the DRM and offers a half-dozen screenshots to prove it.


Comments

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Nobody is attacking "your game",

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

 If someone has the hardware to run Spore, that means they've probably switched computers or re-installed windows at least 4 times in the last 6 years. I know I've installed games like Half-Life 7 times in the past 10 years, games like Sim-Ant and Sim-Farm countless times.

 

At the end of the day I suspect much of the outrage over the install limit comes from the fact that it's a Will Wright game and will be enjoyable in 20 years as much as it is today. People still play Sim City for God's sake! If it were Assasin's Creed I don't think as many people would care as much since nobody will remember that game in 2 years, much less a decade.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

At the end of the day I suspect much of the outrage over the install limit comes from the fact that it's a Will Wright game and will be enjoyable in 20 years as much as it is today.

From what little I hear about the actual gameplay, "will be enjoyable in 20 years as much as it is today" doesn't mean very much.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

It isn't my cup of tea for sure, and that is as a Sims/SimCity fan and a fan of Wright.  So yeah...  I think there is a lot of hype about it, and some people think it is a good game because of the hype and that they can't think for themselves.  (Sounds like something else I heard of before...  oh, we will keep religion out of this, not all religions, but weird ones...)

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Why do EA say such UTTERLY STUPID THINGS?

only 1% of user need to install more than 3 times? well how do they know that... how long a time period was that study done? I mean come on, if they mean only 1 % of SPORE users (from release till now) have needed to install more than 3 times i just DONT get their point, the problem ppl have isnt with being allowed 3 installs at ONE TIME.

Its installing it in the years to come.

 

i can 100% GUARUNTEE that ALL users WILL need to install more than 3 times eventually if they continue to be a gamer, and play that game.

 

its FACT. Pc hardware will change. to continue to game, eventually you MUST upgrade. And you lose an install. i mean.. it is just plain fact. so eventually all people who want to game on pc will upgrade and require a reinstall.

 

The argument that 1% of ppl have needed to is totally blind and ignorant to the facts.

 

 

 

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Maybe they just expect everyone to just put their old PCs away like an old game console, and just pull it out when they want to play a particular game.  Why go through all of that TROUBLE to reload a game you paid for when you can haul out so much outdated hardware that takes up a room or two in your house just to play a game that's probably on a cell phone as an enhanced edition by that point. 

This is utter bullshit as well.  Just making sure you saw that one lol.

Zen aka Jeremy Powers
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Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Lol your totally right.

 

Ill have to box up my pc and buy an entirely new one in future, and jham all my old pcs into my 'console cupboard' (yes i have one filled with many old and mystical consoles' lol.

Its mad isnt it!. I mean PCs simply are NOT consoles, but mayeb EA doesnt understand that. A pc gets upgraded piece by piece (more often than not at least).

 

Lol i laughed at the idea of the ebnhanced version being out on the phone at that point. totally true!

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

The prirates they have stopped, which is why i will be the most illegally downloaded game in the world for years to come.  It really showed those pirates...  Man, they really got what they deserved by the super secuROM stuff that prevented them from getting the game online before the release date, haha.

EA's amazing logic, just like how they say they make great games.  If their games are great on average, I must be a millionaire in real life just because I want to believe that I am. 

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Hmmm, a creative approach.  Not sure how much it'll do in the long run, but I respect the idea.

 

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

The problem is to do this you've got to give EA money.. which justifies their position.

The best move is still to not buy it, or any other game infected with this trash.

 

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

I have no problem admiting that i played this game before launch (why not get a preview?), and have no intention of paying for it. It's not about the DRM, it's not about the 3 install limit, it's just that EA is not a company i support. I"m glad i didn't, because after playing the game for 2 days i was done. I'm glad i didn't waste my money on it, and i'm glad i dont have to fight to get that fricken software off of my computer.

Blizzard, Squaresoft, these are companies i respect, and for good reason. EA has given me too many reasons to NOT respect the products that carry thier brands.

Enough said.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

EA though I loath they brought to the US and translated one of the greatest games EVER! Xenogears, it's because they persisted to bring it here we were graced with such a great game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenogears

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

That's perfect :) I wish I could contribute.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Watch EA still continue to put SuckuRom on PC games in the future, despite the Amazon Review, Spore Protest Creatures and everything else, they just don't listen like that.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

GamesIndustry.biz has a new interview up, in which it's stated that they haven't changed their minds about the DRM issue. It's a good indication that EA is clueless about the issue. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ea-responds-to-spore-drm-complaints

I keep seeing this issue brought up on multiple gaming news sites, and they only ever mentions the installation limit. I have yet to see any of these sites mention that the DRM can hose your system (I'm currently experiencing this one), take away your administrative rights, cause problems within the game itself (such as excessive crashing, or, in the case of Ubisoft's latest Rainbow Six, even prevent you from playing the game), and that it takes an IT guru to remove the DRM when you uninstall the game. This goes far beyond how many times you can install the game.

<angry_rant>
And speaking of installations, EA is freaking hilarious in the above interview. 

Three installations is more than enough for EA's customers who mostly only ever install their games once, according to the publisher's research, while combating piracy. (Excerpted from the linked interview.)

1: I still own games that I bought 15 years ago, and that I've played within the past few years. I've installed and uninstalled Diablo 2 more times than I've installed Windows (and I reformat at least twice per year). After Spore has been out for 15 years, let me know if 77% of the customers still haven't reinstalled it to give it another go.

2: You can't combat piracy while promoting piracy in the same turn. The game was cracked before it even hit the shelves, so the DRM is obivously only implemented to drive customers towards The Pirate Bay. Maybe EA is in cahoots with The Pirate Bay? I smell a conspiracy.

3: Finally, we aren't "EA's customers." When I buy Warhammer Online on Thursday, I'm supporting Mythic. Screw EA. If I had any intention of buying Spore, I'd be supporting Maxis--not EA. If I cared for Red Alert 3, it definitely wouldn't be EA that I'd support.
</angry_rant>

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Ya i homed in on this part of that article... 

"Sughayer claimed that during the activations of the Spore Creature Creator, 77 per cent only ever activated it on one machine and 23 per cent activated it on more than one, of which only 1 per cent attempted to activate it on more than three computers."

Problem is, this only seems to talk about the initial installation over the course of a couple of months (at most)... this does NOT take into account how many times the game gets reinstalled since then... you take into account people who upgrade their computers, those that reformat their computers, those that end up getting a new machine and those that get tired of the game but later go on to play it again and you will see a shift in those percentages. You're right, it is much more accurate to ask how many times did users install over a period of several years...

This is not about putting spore on multiple computers, it's about re-installations that many gamers go though

 

Though that's just part of the DRM issues... the other issue that no one seems to talk about is SecuRom which many have claimed can be hazardous to your computer... I actually do wonder, how many spore owners even know what SecuROM is?

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

You forgot to mention that unlike the actual game, the creature creator let people play the same copy with different accounts.

So multiple people could use it without installing several times on the same computer... That is not the case for the actual game...

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

also note they used Spore as the example, when 2/3 of its owners are running pirated copies.

so spore obviously only has 1 install on most peoples systems for crying out loud.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Calm, The, Frack, Down!

I don't understand all this hissy fitting over Spore DRM and securerom in general.

1. OMG I ONLY GET 3 INSTALLZZ!

Answer: You only get 3 installs but the trade off to that is you don't have to authenticate the disk every time (I.E putting the disk in to play the game) and what some people dont realize is that if you uninstall the game you get your install back. So if you wan't to reformat your computer, just uninstall the game.

2. WAT IF MY COMP CRAPS OUT DEN WHAT?

Answer: thats why you have 3 installs

3. WAT IF MY COMP CRAPS 3 TIMES?

Answer: thats why you can call up EA to restart your installs. In anycase your Computer crashing out 3 times would be really rare.

4. I HATE EA! WHEN I BUY WARHAMMER I SUPPORT MYTHIC NOT EA

Answer: Thats great, but guess what? No matter what your intention is, the 60$ get split in the same way that someone supports EA.

5. I WANT NO DRM ON ANYTHING!

Answer: At that point like Jeff Gerstmann said, you don't go to some torrent site to pirate a game, you go to your freinds house, borrow it and then install it on your computer and give it back to him.

6. BUH BUH BUH TEH STARDOCK!

Answer: The Stardock Route is only viable to them and a few other specific game studios, becuase they can always rely on their loyal core audience that cares about their series to always buy them and not pirate them because they support the company and what they do.

If any of you have any solution for the current use of DRM reply, and maybe we can have a breakthrough in the game industry, because right now, no options are completly perfect or even acceptable by both parties.

Quit getting your panties in a wad about DRM because thats how it has been and almost always has been for PC gaming, your freedom of the games you play and what you can do with them have a price, if you don't like that go out and buy consoles!

At least SecureRom is not Starforce!

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

"You only get 3 installs but the trade off to that is you don't have to authenticate the disk every time (I.E putting the disk in to play the game)"

Wah, wah! I've become a fat lazy **** from playing too much WoW, now I can't bend down far enough to reach the disk drive and put the game in.

BIG DEAL! Sticking a disk in a drive=no real effort. Threatening EA tech support whilst uninstalling their virus-esque software=effort. I don't think anybody cared that much about having to put the disk in the drive, it's no different from a games console, and as your type have said before, nobody complains about the DRM on consoles, becuase it's not intrusive!

God, I hate these EA trolls.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

5. I WANT NO DRM ON ANYTHING! Answer: At that point like Jeff Gerstmann said, you don't go to some torrent site to pirate a game, you go to your freinds house, borrow it and then install it on your computer and give it back to him.

 

 

um can you please xplain how the hell that works considering you only get 3 installs and you dont get them back on an uninstall? you HONESTLY think your friend will give you an install (of his / her measly initial 3). Your living incloud cuckoo land my friend.

And as ive said spore DOESNT give you an install back on uninstall.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

"1. OMG I ONLY GET 3 INSTALLZZ!

Answer: You only get 3 installs but the trade off to that is you don't have to authenticate the disk every time (I.E putting the disk in to play the game) and what some people dont realize is that if you uninstall the game you get your install back. So if you wan't to reformat your computer, just uninstall the game."

Not true. In fact, you don't get an install back.

On top of that, I can attest that it's entirely possible to go through more then three installs fairly quickly. One example being when I worked on a machine a few years back that had an issue with gameplay; the video card ended up being unstable to the point that even something like Fallout 2 made it crap out. I installed Windows and that game five times that day.

On top of that, an upside of DRM is not "You don't need to authenticate the disk". Disk checks are an artificial restriction, but one of the weakest. People willing to pirate are more then capable of bypassing both.

"2. WAT IF MY COMP CRAPS OUT DEN WHAT?

Answer: thats why you have 3 installs

3. WAT IF MY COMP CRAPS 3 TIMES?

Answer: thats why you can call up EA to restart your installs. In anycase your Computer crashing out 3 times would be really rare."

No, thanks. First off, EA isn't always going to be around; if I decide to play Spore in ten years, is EA still going to have the authentication servers? The desire to let me renew the three installs?

A mechanic doesn't need to call up to Ford if he wants to change the engine in a car more then three times.

"4. I HATE EA! WHEN I BUY WARHAMMER I SUPPORT MYTHIC NOT EA

Answer: Thats great, but guess what? No matter what your intention is, the 60$ get split in the same way that someone supports EA."

I think we can all agree with this. It's the thing that really chaps my ass; the fact that I'm incapable of handing over money for games with a note saying "Nice game; ditch the DRM".

"5. I WANT NO DRM ON ANYTHING!

Answer: At that point like Jeff Gerstmann said, you don't go to some torrent site to pirate a game, you go to your freinds house, borrow it and then install it on your computer and give it back to him."

At this point, I feel the need to ask this question. It will likely be construed as an attack, but Points 5 and 6 compel, nay, force me to ask this.

Do you have any clue what you're talking about?

I mean, seriously? Do you honestly not realize that what you described is, not even considering the implausibility, piracy? Piracy is not "getting the game over the internet without paying when you normally have to". Piracy is "getting the game without paying when you normally have to".

On top of that, you couldn't do that with Spore because you need a key. So you'd need to walk the grey side. And it's still, using a word here that I hate to use when talking about this, "illegal".

"6. BUH BUH BUH TEH STARDOCK!

Answer: The Stardock Route is only viable to them and a few other specific game studios, becuase they can always rely on their loyal core audience that cares about their series to always buy them and not pirate them because they support the company and what they do."

No. Just, no. If you honestly think you can disseminate the entire success of Stardock without DRM to that singular point, then you've done it wrong.

Let's take me for example. I want Galactic Civilizations 2, a Stardock game, and Spore. I went out and bought Galactic Civilizations 2. I did not buy Spore.

(And before it gets suggested, I haven't pirated it either. I'm not for playing games without paying for them. I'm also not for putting DRM on my computer. And I'm also not for blindly handing a publisher money unless I can tell them "This is for the game, not that bullshit you've packaged with it".)

I am not a "loyal Stardock fan". I bought Galactic Civilizations 2 because I liked the game, and I liked what Stardock had to say about not wanting to use DRM. I got home, installed, played it a while, and only had to put a key in when I went to update it. No big fuss, and the only game I've ever set up that made me feel like the publisher cares about me as a customer and not merely a revenue stream.

Stardock has not found critical and financial success with GalCiv2 and Sins of a Solar Empire just because they have some small, loyal audience. They've found it because A) They have a loyal audience(As many games and game companies do), B) People outside of that audience liked the games. and C) They found success with the technical crowd because they said to us "We don't want pirates to have a better experience with our product then you do."

Do you think GalCiv2 and Sins of a Solar Empire aren't pirated? Go, look around. You'll find them, plain as day, sitting next to the Spore torrents.

Because that's what happens. Do you think pirates honestly, truly give a shit about no Sporepedia in Spore? There're entire torrents out there with thousands and thousands of creatures that you can drop directly into the game. The game itself requires no activation, and key generators are abundant.

In ten years, pirates will still be able to play Spore, guaranteed. You cannot guarantee that with EA, period, because our ability to play it hinges on their whim.

"If any of you have any solution for the current use of DRM reply, and maybe we can have a breakthrough in the game industry, because right now, no options are completly perfect or even acceptable by both parties."

This's like arguing that the conditions of the death sentence aren't acceptable to the Justice System and the inmate being sentenced to death.

This isn't a "debate". This isn't something in which we have two equal but different sides. We have the folks that want no DRM and the folks that do. The latter are greedy liars who claim that DRM stops piracy despite pirates playing games earlier then honest folk and with less hassles; the former want to play games.

If you want to look at the state of the entire audience playing a game, then you're right; there's no perfect solution. But if you look at the audience willing to buy, the audience that is telling a company "We like your stuff, and wanna pay you money for it", then DRM is a horrendously stupid choice. Pirates aren't having a single issue with Spore; it's the legitimate users who're getting shafted.

DRM isn't even about piracy anymore.

"Quit getting your panties in a wad about DRM because thats how it has been and almost always has been for PC gaming, your freedom of the games you play and what you can do with them have a price, if you don't like that go out and buy consoles!"

You're confusing anti-piracy measures, like CD-checks and keys, with DRM. So, no, it hasn't "always been this way".

"At least SecureRom is not Starforce!"

'At least he got killed quickly instead of slowly!'

It's not somehow "better", it's just not as bad as it could be.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

*takes deap breath*

Okay...

1. If you don't get the install back that's Highway robbery. However I assumed that because Red Alert 3 will have 5 installs and if you uninstall it will give you back that install. Either that Spore does not have that, or people are simply experiencing issues not by design that the uninstall does not register. If it Spore by design is not giving you your installs back, then I belive that you have reason to complain.

2.  The DRM will most likely be temperary over a course of 10 years per say, and a company like EA is most likely not going to be going down under anytime soon. Even if it did, in order to avoid about 10 million lawsuits on the way, they would most likely release a patch that would release the Securerom DRM install count. Either that or they give another company the responsibility of the support for those games.

3. Let me connect the dots for you. If you do not have DRM on your game it can be installed on 1 million computers running simutaniously on one copy of the game. For instance, I can take Alpha Centari and Galactic Civilizations and install it on every computer on the face of the earth because there is no CD check, CD key (nessesary), and the disk does not phone home (the company or servers). At that point it is not sustainable to sell copies of that game. Say Spore did not have DRM at all, that would not be good because people then just go "Dude! You got Spore? Give it to me for about 15 minutes and I'll give it back to you" Installs it on his computer gives it back and two people enjoy Spore at the cost of the developers one copy. Keep doing that and then you can have a potential ratio of 15:1. And that is not good.

4. Yes Stardock's sucess is also based on the fact their games are very, very good, However they get massive profits because they rely on the enthusest 4X crowd to buy their game. If you haven't noticed, Stardock doesn't really pay for shelf space on their games, If it is, it's most likely because of Microsofts Games for Window's program or it's just placed on the ambigous PC shelf because of the retailer. By minimalizing external superfulus expendetures, relying on the loyal 4X audience, relying on the hardcore informed gamer, and treating them well by saying "Hey we got not DRM come with us" Yea thats why they gain sucess. Is that really nice and awesome for us and them? Yes. Is it still being pirated yes. However are those numbers very devestating to them? No. Does it apply to everyone?

Tell that to Crytek who made Crysis, which if I remembered did not have an arcane, draconian DRM system, yet their game was pirated thousands and hundreds of thousands of times even before and after that game came out. So much as to drive the developers to say "PC is no longer a sustainable system for us, we have to go multi-platform." and even call it a very emotional issue for them because they want their due's paid while not punishing the end user, and for that, there is no solution that fufills both ends.

The DRM in the game is not exactly suppose to target the hard core hacker pirate, but more for the casual pirate who would pass their game around in a circle to some nearby freinds and relatives. Hence why there was CD checks, but CD checks don't exactly work anymore because almost everybody has a DVD burner today. CD key's? If the game never goes online, you can install it to every single computer that doesn't connect to the internet. Internet Checks? If your on an airplane with a laptop you can't play those games, not easily anyways. Draconian Starforce? You get the idea. There is no good solution for all of this, because if you have no DRM, the casual person is eventually going to figure out you can get the game for free and the chances of the FBI knocking down your door is about 1/1000 000 000 000. So this eventually becomes free vs. not free and if the people don't exactly care about the philosophical or moral aspect of actually paying money for your games, what do you think they will choose?

 

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

1;

Frankly, I believe people have a right to complain eitherway, merely because there're too many Ifs. In a perfect world, that'd be fine; sadly, it ain't perfect.

2;

You've said it best yourself with all of the Ifs. "Most likely" is not an absolute by any stretch. On top of that, no, there wouldn't be any lawsuits that weren't dismissed; assuming the DRM was in the general EULA, then people agreed to it in a legally-binding manner. You don't get to go back later and say "I just found this out! Sue-hammer, go!". Now assume all of those aren't happening; EA does go away, Spore DRM isn't temporary, there isn't another company, et cetera.

Sorry, but I'd rather not take that chance. It's the same reason I don't play the lottery.

3;

Wow, really? Connect the dots? For me? Gee. I'm glad you could for a guy that's written and researched this stuff since people were complaining about paper wheels being a validation method.

And yet, here's the funny thing; GalCiv was more then sustainable, even with Zero Protection. Same with GalCiv2. GalCiv2 has patches on torrent sites to install on pirated games, and yet it's still a roaring success and still selling.

I wish I could have a game that had unsustainable sales like that.

4;

The issue with Crytek and Crysis were legion. This's why I said you can't compress Stardock's success down to any single point.

I think Crysis sucked, and it's a reaction I've heard echoed many times. I played it over at a friends' house, close to when it came out, on a machine that I envied him for having. Ran like shit, and the game was bleh. I think that has a lot to do with it, both the quality and the system requirements. He loved Far Cry, which I also found to be bleh, and basically told me later on "It doesn't get any better from what you played".

On top of that, there's a hardcore FPS crowd; it isn't like RTS has its' own little posse and everyone else is left out in the cold.

The reasons I believe Crysis failed to meet expectations for the studio, which it did for EA by the way, is due to cost. Crysis was a huge, expensive game. GalCiv2 wasn't. Therefore, GalCiv2 could still sell less then Crysis and still be wildly more profitable.

It's like this; say that, to recoup development costs, GalCiv 2 had to sell 5,000 copies of the game, and Crysis had to sell 50,000. After that, it's the gravy-train for both games, in that additional sales are solely profit.

If both games sold 100,000, then GalCiv2 has made back 2000% of what they put into it. Crysis has made 200%.

That isn't accurate, but the idea remains; GalCiv2 was made on a smaller budget that Crysis, and thus, it was easier to recoup costs.

In reality, GalCiv2 has sold around 300,000 copies altogether and made over Ten million bucks for StarDock, on a game that took less then a million to make. Crysis has sold around 1.5 Million, and they're crying about profits.

If a company wants a game to automatically be more profitable, then they need to spend less. The less spent during development, the easier it'll be to recoup costs. That's why so many movies bomb so heavily anymore; studios spend millions and millions, and act surprised if a movie can't realistically recoup it.

But here's the thing; I doubt DRM or the lack thereof really had anything to do with it. Games that bomb have DRM; games that are successes have DRM. Games that bomb don't have DRM; games that are successes don't have DRM. You can't say "Crysis failed, and it didn't have DRM!", as if somehow No-DRM is a magical success button. I bought GalCiv2 because it was good and didn't have DRM; it wasn't one or the other. Crysis didn't do jack for me; hence why I didn't buy it.

That's why I said that putting the success of GalCiv2 down to one or two points is doing it wrong; there were reasons beyond No-DRM or a loyal crowd that caused it to be a roaring success.

Everything else;

First, there's no chance, even now, of the FBI knocking on anyones' door. Piracy isn't a federal crime; it's a violation of copyright, but that's a civil case, not a federal one. Commercial copyright violation, on the other hand, is a federal crime. But you cannot be arrested for going onto a torrent site and downloading a game. It's why they can't have you arrested for downloading music, just sue you into oblivion.

Second, CD-checks stopped working the moment No-CD cracks came about; disk-burners came about afterwards.

As for the entire "People automatically take the cheapest option", look at Microsoft. Microsoft made billions on OSes which had no protection whatsoever, and yet nowadays, now that Windows XP and Windows Vista have "Windows Genuine Advantage", piracy of it is more rampant then ever. Microsoft is a company which not only thrived in an environment in which neighborly piracy was common, but then continues to thrive even when that neighbor becomes the entire internet.

I'm not going to get into the entire "Piracy doesn't diminish sales as much as claimed" thing right now, because this's long enough as-is. But DRM does nothing to stop piracy. Nothing. Nowadays, hardcore pirates can easily give their work to casual pirates, making everyone have copies which work flawlessly.

You're essentially trying to championship something which is not only worthless, but detrimental to paying customers.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Do you have any clue what you're talking about?

$ure he doe$.He know$ exactly what he'$ $aying.

You're confusing anti-piracy measures, like CD-checks and keys, with DRM.

Here though, he's exactly right. Are the bits any different if only the honor system was used and nothing else? If yes, there's DRM, if no, there's not DRM. CD-checks and keys = DRM, just less intrusive to the end user.

 

 

 

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

No, things like CD-checks aren't DRM. At least, in the most literal sense.

I believe you're confusing anti-piracy measures and DRM, which are seperate things, even if they're often lumped into the same category.

Anti-piracy measures are things like CD-checks, keys for offline games, and those old-time grids where it'd ask for something from a certain location and you had to cross-reference. Good times, those.

DRM is more involved. DRM, by its' nature, requires a third entity to manage rights apart from the User and the Game; that's why DRM uses things like SecuROM and validation servers. The program can't police itself, hence the need of a third entity.

The major difference is this; DRM is frequently an ongoing affair of some sort, whereas anti-piracy measures aren't. SecuROM is always running on your machine; CD-checks only matter when you play the game, and the hit in performance is based on the executable checking the drive, not another process having to monitor everything. While both cause a loss of performance, the former is less of one then the latter in most cases.

And you could make an argument that, frankly, CD-checks are more intrusive; after all, what's going to be noticed by an ignorant user more? Having to put a disk in the drive, or having some unintended software installed and running perpetually?

The question really becomes, I think, how much the feature restricts the ability of people to install a game now, in a year, in five years, and in ten. Things like CD-checks and other Anti-Piracy measures are still about and working fine; I can install something like Uplink, which used a grid, flawlessly, whether the company exists, I'm connected to the internet, et cetera.

On the other hand, DRM is intrinsically tied to the company which issues it. If the company shuts down the servers, or refuses to authenticate, then what you've bought is suddenly rendered worthless.

It's the difference between your "rights being managed", and you having to go through some good will hoop-jumping to get something installed. In the former, the company can either purposely or through simple happenstance shut down your ability to install or play a game; in the latter, the company can never take the hoops away from you to jump through.

...I hope that all made sense. I just got home from work and I've been up over 18 hours. ~_~

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

You've got it backwards. CD Checks are DRM in the literal sense. Are the DIGITAL bits changed to protect the publisher's RIGHTS?

There is no qualitative difference between CD-Checks and SecuRom/Starforce, it is only a matter of degree. And even CD checks break things. I have games with checks that run fine on 9X but don't on XP;crack them and they run fine on XP. So these restrict just as much as the online checks.

All anti-copying is DRM, not all DRM is anti-copying.

 

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

CD-checks do not, however, protect the publishers' rights in the same manner as DRM. DRM is not anti-piracy measures.

It's like a door. Anti-piracy measures are a key; you own the door and key, and can use them however you please, but you need the key to open the door.

DRM would be a networked door which requires you to have a key, and then can deny you if it feels that you've opened the door too often today, requiring you to call the door company and request additional openings.

There's a huge difference between CD-checks and SecuROM/StarForce, that being control. CD-checks allow no control because the publisher has handed both the door and the key over to you. CD-checks are also an anti-piracy measures because they were intended to prevent casual piracy, before the internet became so damn wide-spread.

DRM is fundamentally about the publisher retaining control. Once a CD and the key is bought, it's completely out of their hands. But DRM allows them to continue having a hand in it, allowing them to say "Alright, you can buy this game, install it X times, and not have Y applications running while you do. Also, you can't sell it to anyone else."

And I'm sorry, but the example given of a CD-check not working on XP isn't a prime example by any means of the similarities. It's like me saying "I wanna play the version of Rogue I've had since DOS was new, and it doesn't run on Windows Vista! They're restricting my right to play it!"

Technical issues due to changing software are not the same as deliberate attempts to have a strangehold on customers and having it go to hell when the company decides to abandon it/downsizes/shuts down. In the former, the company has essentially created a product that can be played at any point in the future, even if you might need to take some steps to get it working correctly(Virtual machine, et cetera).

In the latter case, if in ten years EA has shut down and not done jack with Spore, you could make a machine dedicated to Windows XP, with everything needed to play it now, and it still wouldn't be able to play.

Can you get around both issues with No-CD cracks? Absolutely. But saying that both issues being solved in the same manner make them the same is like saying that taking a detour for sight-seeing and taking a detour due to road work are both taking detours just for road work.

You could most certainly make an issue that both are, in the metaphorical sense, artificial means of control*. And I'd agree with you; I think even CD-checks are more intrusive then just being able to install and go.

But I don't make the fallacy of believing, for a moment, that CD-checks and DRM are somehow on the same page of anything in the most literal sense. Many of the core factors of DRM, such as preventing copying and maintaining control over licensing, are starkly missing from schemes such as CD-checks and keys.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

"if you don't like that go out and buy consoles!"

We can still complain about them and bash EA because of it. If DRM does absoultely nothing to prevent piracy why should we have to put up with it?

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

1. no-cd crack works just as good
2-3. There are a good number of people that flush their computer every 6 months, plus people that get new computers every 2 years, and:
-- Install 1: orignal computer (day 1)
-- Install 2: new computer that can run game with graphics on high (day 14)
-- Install 3: new computer needed to be flushed after a year.
-- Call EA talk to some idiot that can't find the power button on their computer and has their thumbs up their ass, while their head is up EA's, 45 minutes later, you get a response that they can't do it.  You ask to speak to their boss, they say some remark in the grounds of, he wont be able to help you either, you are on hold for another hour, then you get the boss, and he acts like he isnt suppose to do that, and that he is doing you a special favor even though he isnt.  (It is the same with everyone...  EA, Microsoft, Go Daddy, Dell, Comcast, Bright House, who else has done this to me... Cingular/AT&T, college registration office, college financial office, 2 apartment complexes, and Walmart [the boss from Walmart was actaully pissed off like hell for the reason I called...])
4. If I supported Mythic, I would find another way to get them the money.  Like order them a few pizzas for lunch, while I get the game for free online.
5. Either way it is against the law in EA's eyes, torrenting has a record of how many people do it though, and I want to see how EA swollows those numbers, because 90% of those are lost sales due to them treating customers like shit.
6. Don't get me started on that crap...  That is when the whole industry will fail, and users will backlash like hell.

You want the solution to this whole mess?  I have the solution right here buddy.

Just like people who work for you, you treat them good and with respect, then they will preform how you want them too.  Same with consumers you treat them well, then they  will respond well.  If you give them a bonus, or a free expansion pack because of so many people getting the game legally, then they wont buy it illegally.

All you have to say is, if we can get 99% legally obtained copies out there, torrent downloads to 50% of what this game had, or if we get # sales, then we will release the next expansion pack for free. (and make a real expansion pack that some lame ass stuff pack that Sims 2 has where content online made by users is better)

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

6 is based off of starforce not stardock btw

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

I bought SPORE the game

I also downloaded SPORE from a torrent site

I have only installed and played the downloaded version.

I have no inention of even opening the box.

Stardock is not doing well because they have stardock fans.  Stardock does well because they treat gamers well AND they release good games.  I'm one of their many paying customers.  When I buy from them, they take care of me.  I have played 1 or 2 pirate versions of their games.  Usually I have bought them afterwards.  They also offer real benefits to people who buy the game by having extra content which is available to paid up and verified customers.

What do I get for going though the problems of SPORE's DRM?  Nothing.  Congratulations you can play the game, THIS TIME.  DRM does not protect EA's IP/work. DRM punishes paying customers.  If EA releases anymore DRM BS games I will not play or buy them. I don't care how good it is.  No game is worth the ammount of BS attached to DRM software

I honestly regret buying SPORE, yet I have no regrets about downloading it.  What does this say about what DRM is doing to paying customers?

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Well, Speak of the Devil

See my comment below.

E. Zachary Knight
http://www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

and what some people dont realize is that if you uninstall the game you get your install back.

Absolutely untrue.  There have been games that allowed this but Spore is not one of then.  Your EA masters should give you better information.

You also lose an install if you upgrade your graphics card, motherboard or CPU.

Any *why* should I have to call a PREMIUM RATE phone line to install a game I legitimately paid for?  That's just plain extortion.

You failed to mention that SecureROM is a complete bitch to remove from the PC, causes some software to cease running (and even some hardware).

And what when the next game comes out with a different version of SecureROM?  Congratulations, you get games that are physically incompatible with each other.

 

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

"while combating piracy."

To this date, no DRM has been sucessful and in spore's case, it was cracked before the game even got released.

So as usual, only the paying customers get shafted with DRM: the one group of people you don't want to annoy as a publisher.

You'd think they'd notice the DRM is doing the exact opposite of what it was designed for, but nooooo....

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

I love how D2 is always the example used for games installed many many times over the course of owning the game. Hell, my friends and I have all collectively done group installs of our copies more times than I can count, let alone any of us individually playing.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Very nice post, point check and mate.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

I've done the same thing with Diablo 2, SO many installs since I was like 8 (now 17). Then I'll stop playing for awhile, uninstall, want to play it again, etc etc. Plus, we've had 2 other computers with it, that alone is 3 installs.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

then i will illegally download all of their SuckROM games on my crappy machine, and never play them, haha.  I just want to play with the statistics to prove my opinion, my crappy computer cant even handle Sims 2.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Spore will either be known as the game that changed EA's ways, or the game that proved EA wasn't worth a turd.  Between the piracy, spore creature protest, reviews, and other actions...  This is what EA has needed as a bitch slap all along.

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

Epic

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

man i wish i was not at school so i can go to the site and see it i have to wait for 30 min but what a a great idea use their game well will game to bite ea a new one hahaha

Re: Spore Owners Turn Game's Own Content Creation Tools into

 Clever. Hopefully it gets to them, if not throughj to them.

 
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Sora-ChanI realize that they have ways getting around it, but one reason might be due to earthquakes.04/17/2014 - 4:42am
Matthew WilsonSF is a tech/ economic/ trade center it should be mostly tail building. this whole problem is because of the lack of tail buildings. How would having tail apartment buildings destroy SF? having tail buildings has not runed other cities around the US/world04/16/2014 - 10:51pm
Matthew WilsonAgain the issue is you can not build upwards anywhere in SF at the moment, and no you would not. You would bring prices to where they should have been before the market distortion. those prices are not economic or socially healthy.04/16/2014 - 10:46pm
ZippyDSMleeYou still wind up pushing people out of the non high rise aeras but tis least damage you can do all things considered.04/16/2014 - 10:26pm
ZippyDSMleeANd by mindlessly building upward you make it like every place else hurting property prices,ect,ect. You'll have to slowly segment the region into aeras where you will never build upward then alow some aeras to build upward.04/16/2014 - 10:25pm
Matthew WilsonSF have to build upwards they have natural growth limits. they can not grow outwards. ps growing outwards is terable just look at Orlando or Austin for that.04/16/2014 - 4:15pm
ZippyDSMleeIf they built upward then it would becoem like every other place making it worthless, if they don't build upward they will price people out making it worthless, what they need to do is a mix of things not just one exstreme or another.04/16/2014 - 4:00pm
Matthew Wilsonyou know the problem in SF was not the free market going wrong right? it was government distortion. by not allowing tall buildings to be build they limited supply. that is not free market.04/16/2014 - 3:48pm
ZippyDSMleeOh gaaa the free market is a lie as its currently leading them to no one living there becuse they can not afford it makign it worthless.04/16/2014 - 3:24pm
Matthew WilsonIf you have not read http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/introducing-steam-gauge-ars-reveals-steams-most-popular-games/ you should. It is a bit stats heavy, but worth the read.04/16/2014 - 2:04pm
Matthew Wilsonthe issue is when is doesn't work it can screw over millions in new york city's case. more often than not it is better to let the free market run its course without market distortion.04/16/2014 - 9:36am
NeenekoTrue, and overdone stagnation is a problem. It is a tricky balance. It does not help that when it does work, no one notices. Most people here have benifited from rent controls and not even realized it.04/16/2014 - 9:23am
ZippyDSMleehttp://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/04/15/riaa_files_civil_suit_against_megaupload04/16/2014 - 8:48am
ZippyDSMleeEither way you get stagnation as people can not afford the prices they set.04/16/2014 - 8:47am
Neenekowell, specifically it helps people already living there and hurts people who want to live there instead. As for 'way more hurt', majorities generally need less legal protection. yes it hurt more people then it helped, it was written for a minority04/16/2014 - 8:30am
MaskedPixelantehttp://torrentfreak.com/square-enix-drm-boosts-profits-and-its-here-to-stay-140415/ Square proves how incredibly out of touch they are by saying that DRM is the way of the future, and is here to stay.04/16/2014 - 8:29am
james_fudgeUnwinnable Weekly Telethon playing Metal Gear http://www.twitch.tv/rainydayletsplay04/16/2014 - 8:06am
ConsterTo be fair, there's so little left of the middle class that those numbers are skewing.04/16/2014 - 7:42am
Matthew Wilsonyes it help a sub section of the poor, but hurt both the middle and upper class. in the end way more people were hurt than helped. also, it hurt most poor people as well.04/16/2014 - 12:13am
SeanBJust goes to show what I have said for years. Your ability to have sex does not qualify you for parenthood.04/15/2014 - 9:21pm
 

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