ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

October 1, 2008 -

ELSPA, which represents U.K. game publishers, has vowed to fight on in its bid to have content rating chores assigned to PEGI rather than the British Board of Film Classification, gamesindustry.biz reports.

The PEGI-BBFC debate has become rather a long-running sideshow in the U.K., where government officials seem to prefer the BBFC, the industry wants PEGI and no one seems in the mood to compromise. ELSPA boss Paul Jackson spoke to gi.biz of his organization's determination:

Nobody is saying for a second that if government brings in a regulation for a videogames act of parliament that our members won't fight it. Of course they will. At the end of the day we're a very law-abiding industry and we'll fight our corner right the way through. If there's a legislative process we'll fight that as well.

 

I think [government officials are] listening now. I have a real sense that the arguments we're making are so well-founded in fact that they're impossible to not listen to...

 

Fifteen years ago when we set up our own age ratings without anybody asking us to, we did it entirely off our own backs to make sure there was child protection. I don't think there is the slightest doubt that this industry isn't serious, coherent and of one mind of where we're going.

 


Comments

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Perhaps the BBFC should have just said that they were refusing to rate Manhunt 2 because it's shit and it would have prevented this whole mess.

That's a power I'd like to see a ratings board actually have. "What do you want us to rate? Barbie Horse riding adventure part 5? Fuck off!"

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

There does seem to be a lack of knowledge over the reasons for censorship, for instance terrorist material is illegal (such as instructional videos) because it can help aid terrorists, child pornography is illegal for many good reasons (for instance it is harmful and brutal for the children forced into such). These are areas where censorship is needed and has an overwhelmingly good reason for existing, I would like to know why Erik thinks censorship shouldn't exist by taking the previous examples into account.

Regardless games companies would not put that sort of content into games (only the sick perverted few would want to do such a thing). The argument against censorship is misplaced because this is about who should classify games. Every country has such a system, even believe it or not the US. The ridiculous attacks on people saying that they are like Jack Thompson are just that, in fact the ERSB routinely equates games with pornography, one sex scene in GTA: San Andreas means the pornographic rating AO, two sex scenes in Fahrenheit: AO. The BBFC has seen that sex has a valid part to play in games just as it has with films and rates them accordingly. GTA: SA uncut: 18, Fahrenheit uncut: 15. The ERSB has pretty much banned such games by awarding them the restrictive AO rating.

I can't believe people fall for the PR from Sega. When have they ever said that the content is being cut because of the BBFC? When have they ever said that they are self-censoring? When there have been cuts imposed on a game most of them come from the ERSB, and let's not forget that the ERSB gave Manhunt 2 an AO rating essentially enforcing cuts onto the game.

The argument that people should play a game so that they can decide on whether they will play that game is ridiculous. A classification exists so that we can know what sort of content is in the product before we watch/play it, we use it as a guide. It is hardly being a sheep by looking for guidance and again (and has been stated many times before) classification agencies have to abide by that particular country's laws on censorship.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

"I can't believe people fall for the PR from Sega."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't PR people supposed to make people want to buy the game?  Sega has admitted that they are castrating their game if the BBFC deems it necessary.  Meaning that many people won't buy it.  Why would their PR department do anything so idiotic?

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Because, Erik, it permanently associates the game with ultra-violent content, therebv making the game seem almost "too hot to handle", generating interest in and publicity for the title. It makes the actual game (and its developer) seem edgy and cool whilst simultaneously showing Sega to be a responsible publisher.

People are attracted to content that is seen to push the boundaries of what is acceptable - Sega are trying to expolit that to promote their game whilst trying to maintain a family friendly image at the same time.

Just because it didn't have that effect on you, doesn't mean to say that's not what the PRs involved intended.

-- teh moominz --

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

By pandering to the censors there is no way the game could have "ultra-violent content" or be "too hot to handle".

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

I was trying not to get sucked into the madness but, as you said:

Wait, that's my line.  Why don't you think for yourself, IE decide what media is appropriate for you, and say fuck PEGI and the BBFC.

You will of course be ingoring the fact what anyone else said and be taking a decision for yourself. Or will you be basing your decision on a perceived slight because a PR agency released a press release that suggested that one group of people you like are talking to another group you don't?

 

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

You know thinking I think that I should be willing to see things from the other side.  So I invite Chuma or whoever to show me the benefits of censorship and not thinking for one's self.

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Under what circumstances would you allow a four or five year old child to play, say, Condemned 2 or Jericho? Or watch Saw or Hostel? Do you think the creators of these titles intended for children to experience them? Would you allow the child to make the decision themself?

I realise this is an extreme case, but your query was hardly subtle.

For the record, I am not pro-censorship, but that's not to say I am anti-regulation. I simply prefer pragmatism over idealism.

 

-- teh moominz --

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Under what circumstances?  I would say that the circumstance would be that if the paren't of said four year old allowed it either through direct support or parental neglect.  So I have no problem with a four year old playing Condemed 2, Jehrico, watching Saw or Hostel. 

Next.

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Hang on, let me get this straight. Are you saying that parantal neglect is preferable to having age guidelines printed on the box? If so, then I'm at a bit of a loss, Erik.

Also, as you didn't make a direct reference, am I to take it that you don't think a four year old should be able to choose for himself, by dint of saying a parent "allowed it"? Is that not some form of censorship?

Lastly, you've repeatedly said what you don't want - what is it that you do want? Anything more constructive or practical than simply re-stating "think for yourselves"?

I am really making the effort to understand your position, I hope you can extend the same courtesy.

-- teh moominz --

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

"Hang on, let me get this straight. Are you saying that parantal neglect is preferable to having age guidelines printed on the box? If so, then I'm at a bit of a loss, Erik."

What I am saying is that if the child's parents don't put an effort to protect their child from such content then there is frankly nothing anyone else can do about it.

"Also, as you didn't make a direct reference, am I to take it that you don't think a four year old should be able to choose for himself, by dint of saying a parent "allowed it"? Is that not some form of censorship?"

Sure the child can choose for himself.  But the catch is a parent's choices trump the child's choices.  That is in no way censorship.

"Lastly, you've repeatedly said what you don't want - what is it that you do want? Anything more constructive or practical than simply re-stating "think for yourselves"?"

Not to have organizatios such as the BBFC treat adults like four year olds.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

DING! DING! DING! DING! We have a winnah!  Tell him what he's won Johnny! 

A lifetime's supply of common sense!

Except yiu comment didn't make much sense and was akin to saying, that someone should buy a product to see if they would want to buy the product. You're saying that people should play the game to see if they want to play the game.

Sega has stated that they are working with the BBFC to keep the game within whatever rigid pansy structure that the BBFC will dictate to them.  To put it in perspective it is like Galileo working with the Catholic Church to come to a "compromise".  That compromise being a geocentric universe.

The comments coming from Sega are pure hyperbole, and they are trying to make it seem like the game is too hot to handle. They are trying to say that the game will be banned because it is so extreme, but it's just pure PR, and they know full well that the BBFC is very liberal in games classification and are highly unlikely to ban the game. Many publishers have claimed that their next game is likely to get banned by the BBFC but then the BBFC rate the game which usually gets a 15 or 18, they are simply trying to whip up fear.

 

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

"You're saying that people should play the game to see if they want to play the game."

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.  Who should know what a person would/wouldn't like to watch rather than that person themselves.  That is unless you are a sheep who needs to be told what to watch or not watch.

 

"The comments coming from Sega are pure hyperbole, and they are trying to make it seem like the game is too hot to handle"

Then I have news for Sega.  In a stunning turn of irony it has had the exact opposite effect.  They have shown themselves to be gutless cowards and by pandering to the censors I expect their game to be as "too hot to handle" as Babie Horse Adventures.

 

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Ugh, I'd prefer PEGI but ELSPA really need to move on. For good or ill the government are going to implement the advice they were given, they won't commission another report or ignore the one they have just because ELSPA don't like it. Seriously, things could have been a lot worse it's time the industry changed tack to capitalise on the positive things Byron said.

Gift.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

I actually feel that the BBFC rates games more fairly, with ratings being roughly the same as the target  audience's age. PEGI ratings are plain stupid, 16+ for a game aimed at 12 year olds? Useless.  

The BBFC may ban more games, but in all honesty no one would have ever played manhunt if there hadn't been a huge controvercy, because it's just plain bad. Not fun, not exiting. BAD. And the BBFC gives fairer ratings on the whole. 

BBFC: 19,467 

PEGI: 2

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

I support Dr Byron's report - a hybrid system is the best solution given the current situation and the solutions on offer. However, please find below a quick and easy guide to the way things should work in video game ratings:

1) A ratings body should never be allowed to ban a game through refusing to classify it. All games should receive ratings, even if that rating is 'X' or '21' or 'AO' or whatever. It's then up to retailers to decide whether to stock it or not. Interference from platform holders should also be disallowed.

2) Ratings should carry clear symbols denoting the age for whom the ratings body has judged the game game to be best suited. These should be backed up by written content identifiers - pictures of spiders and fists can be misinterprested if not accompanied by text labels and could lead to confusion.

3) All classifications should have an even spread of age ratings - that means having something for 18/19 year olds (looks at OLFC), and something for 15/16 year olds (looks at ESRB).

4) The ratings body must make some effort to play the games they rate. There are many arguments about how to go about this, whether the game should be played all the way through or just the important bits, etc etc. To my mind, a check-box system complemented by a developer/publisher submitted showreel plus some extended hands-on time would seem to please all parties. Not having any hands-on time, though, seems a bit daft.

5) People under the age rating should NOT be allowed to purachse the game by themselves - either by law or by store policy, depending on territory. If a parent chooses to buy it for their kid, so be it; but staff should be allowed to refuse the sale if they think the parent is purchasing the game out of ignorance. 

6) The ratings body must be free from interference by the industry or other corporations, special interest groups, government interference and media pressure. That includes not accepting donations.

7) The ratings body must be publically accountable. Otherwise, how could ratings be challenged?

8) The ratings body must mount a thorough and detailed PR campaign informing the general public of what it does, what its symbols mean and that whilst their ratings aren't manditorily enforced, they are guidelines that ought to be adhered to.

9) Ratings bodies around the world must communicate with each other and recognise that whilst their ratings only apply locallly, the product will be played by a global market, often with or against each other. If cross-border communication is taking place between gamers, then so too should it take place between ratings agencies.

10) Erik is a cock.

-- teh moominz --

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

I agree with the majority of your 'commandments' but you hit a problem with #1. There will always be a line which State's will find it difficult for media to cross. Each State may have a different line but it will exist.

Germany will have a problem with the imagery associated with national socialism. The current UK climate would certainly draw a line with the sexual exploitation of children.  Even the Dutch probably draw a line somewhere.

No State will simply be happy to have that material badged '21' or 'AO' or whatever and allowed on the market, even with marketing restrictions. Once you accept that we are in a line drawing exercise we have to address the more difficult, but unavoidable, question of where to draw the lines. There is no easy option.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Well I'd defo defer to your judgement pal, you proved your authority on this subject aaages ago :)

-- teh moominz --

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

"a hybrid system is the best solution given the current situation and the solutions on offer."

I don't see why a hybrid system is really best, why not hand the whole thing over to the BBFC? I think Byron was just paying lipservice to the games industry by keeping PEGI for some ratings (maybe she felt it would soften the blow).

Regarding point 6, what funding would you propose?

The rest I more or less agree with, except for 10, who the hell is Erik anyway? Oh and 9, I don't really see why other nation's rating bodies need to communitcate, it sounds over complicated and I'm not sure what the benefits would be. I certainly don't want the BBFC talking to the Saudi religious police or Chinese censors, what would we gain from such interaction?

Gift.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Writh reagrds to funding, I don't think it's unreasonable for games publishers to have to pay the various classification agencies for a rating on a per-title basis. If stores then refused to stock unrated games, which seems likely, we could then ensure a rating for all games as paid for by the publishers without unneccessarry interference from social or economic sectors.

With regards to nations classification bodies talking to each other, this is only to ensure games with significant online components have some parity in their ratings, or at least an understanding that these demographics are not wholly seperate. It becomes less important for countries outside of North America, Europe or Oceania as gamers there typically donlt speak English and therefore will encouter each other less frequently online.

It always serves as a way for more liberal ratings agencies (ESRB, PEGI, BBFC) to encourage stricter ones (OLFC, FSK) to improve and better reflect modern times.

Lastly, Erik is a cock because he never listens to what others say, takes their differences of opinion on board or come up with constructive solutions. He's just dogmatic; ergo he's a cock.

-- teh moominz --

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Ok I see where you're coming from now. I'm still not sure more liberal ratings agencies will help take the edge off of the more authoritarian variety though; that's a big ask.

As for Erik, I'll sit that dispute out thanks ;)

Gift.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Tbh, I'd just welcome a debate between ratings agencies. So far, it's only the liberal ones that have had to defend their positions - the FSK and OLFC have never been brought to account. Say what you like about PEGI/BBFC/ESRB, but when it's been perceived that they have made mistakes, they have all had to respond and make alterations (appropriate or otherwise), or at least defend their respective methodolgies.

What I want to hear is why the OLFC and FSK behave as they do. I mean, how can you justify not giving Australian adults a representative age rating? It's ridiculous, and obviously so. This problems of British, Canadian and USAian gamers pale into insignificance when compared to the hardships Australian and German gamers face every release.

I know "it's only videogames", but still...

-- teh moominz --

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Thats is becausd the UK-Thompsonites on the board do not have an oppinion, their oppinion was given to them.  Now my biggest failing is wasting my time communicating with these puppets.

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Thanks for proving my point, Erik.


-- teh moominz --

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

In an ideal world, these points would be spot on.  The issue arises from the Daily Mail readership who complain about games like GTA existing at all and subsequently there are "moral standards" imposed upon the BBFC.  They basically boil down to what is acceptable in the current climate, as shown by films that got an X(Now 18) rating back in 1950 getting a U(Universal - Everyone) rating now.  As this is a moral judgment you get the occasional problem like with Manhunt 2, which is why the VAC was set up as an appeals process.

If you could convince the government to agree to drop the laws that mean a game/film/dvd has to be unrated if it exceed 18 and instead give it an X rating for over 21s sold only in specific shops like with porn, I would be all for it.  I just don't actually see that happening is all.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

*placed under correct comment*

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

I'll say it till I'am blue in the face the BBFC needs to slot media and not block it it doesn't matter what it is slot it to its correct slot and only ban the illegal stuff.
If you want a level of adult material thats not porn but treated like porn the make that slot ope to publishers to publish to and not ban it out of being a complete wank!

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

And similarly we have been telling you that the BBFC is following legal guidelines set up for it and if you replaced it with PEGI then they would have to do the same BY LAW.  Complain about the law if you want, but pinning it on the BBFC is "complete wank!".

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

The adult 18 rating is not an anything goes rating, this is a common misinterpretation. The BBFC regularly bans films too and the ERSB forces games to be cut to get an M rating. The comments from the BBFC time after time go on about gaming being a legitimate artform and one that has an adult audience. PEGI constantly talks about protecting "the children" from these games and its rhetoric comes out sounding like something from the Daily Mail.

The fact that games get lower ratings from the BBFC than PEGI shows that they are more in tune with games than PEGI themselves are. BBFC ratings for games and films closely match, PEGI ratings on the otherhand are over the top in many cases, and as has been pointed out Mass Effect is an example of this.

The latest comments from PEGI go further to show that they are not up to the job of not only rating all games for the UK but any games at all. The latest comments talk about how labels need to be recognised across Europe, but they forget that the British government is looking at games classification in the UK only.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

The ESRB M rating argument is flawed though, since they DO have an AO rating, and games are quite welcome to aim for that rating if they want. It's just that none of the main console companies allow AO games to be released on their system.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

2 Problems with the ESRB argument 1 AO is baned by console makers because of the  politcail vibe in the US and 2 they don't have to because generally games are not BANNED or have the threat to be banned if released under the guise of Mature, yes it would be great if they allowed AO but the console makers will have to let it be a usable level first..

The BBFC is a body that directly handles most if not all physical media rating in the UK it badly needs to stop banning media and get down to just slotting it.
The BBFF might rant things within the levels it rates more matruly than most but like Australia it gets dumb when things leave its supposed comfort zones.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

The BBFC cannot just decide to 'slot' media.* The BBFC operates within a legally mandated role which requires them to refuse classification under certain circumstances. The only way that can be changed is for the UK Parliament to amend the VRA 1984. Abusing the messanger doesn't solve the problem.

 

* I'm still not sure what you mean by 'slot', it's not a phrase used by anyone else. I take it you man classify.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

The ESRB forces no one to edit their games.

Like I said, games have to be cut to get an M rating, I was very specific over that point.

since they DO have an AO rating, and games are quite welcome to aim for that rating if they want. It's just that none of the main console companies allow AO games to be released on their system.

Again the uncut Manhunt 2 was essentially banned as it was rated AO and no one wanted to carry it. As well as Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, many shops do not carry the AO rating. The AO rating was created for pornography (the reasoning behind why so many companies wanting nothing to do with the rating), but the usage has expanded. The ERSB knows full well the consequences that the AO rating has and so uses it (in a heavy handed manner) on many decisions.

PEGI has used the argument that they have the power to ban a games company from ever getting a game rated again (although as it is an internal body this would never happen), so I find the complaints over the BBFC refusing to classify Manhunt 2 pedantic when considering that PEGI could possibly ban all games from a particular company.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Here's the difference: The BBFC HAVE banned games (both Manhunt 2 and Carmageddon waaaay back), PEGI hasn't. The BBFC were forced to change their decision, PEGI wasn't.

You shouldn't judge based on a hypothetical situation PEGI has said COULD happen in the future, you can only go off past evidence, and on the matter of banning games for very poor vague reasons it's BBFC 2 - PEGI 0

 

-------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

First off, comparing the amount of games the BBFC have banned to the amount that PEGI have banned is unbalanced. The BBFC have been rating games for twelve years whereas PEGI have been rating games for five.

The BBFC is actually more liberal than PEGI over game classification, as PEGI give just about any game containing a smattering of sex an 18+. How are the British public able to decide on the content in games if an organisation routinely rates games too highly meaning that the ratings end up losing their effect?

You don't want to talk about hypotheticial situations, yet you base your arguments on the hypothesis that the BBFC will ban games in the future.

What is worrying about PEGI (apart from the fact that it isn't independent and not publicly accountable) is the fact that a rating has to cover the whole of Europe. Germany is very strict with violent games, and no doubt game certificates have had to be increased to accommodate some countries. The makers of Fallout 3 alluded to this fact that each country has a different perspective over game content. Another area that needs to be mentioned is that of censorship laws in every country (all countries have these laws including the US), Britain for example has laws over instrutional drug use, violent pornography, terrorist material etc. Games would have to be reviewed by a censorship board other than PEGI if they were found to contain such censored content, the BBFC handles the certification process and the censorship process, it would seem that PEGI would have to pass such content onto an external party for review. So it would seem that then PEGI would be looking at the certification on a country by country basis and we would then have defeated the point of the system. The Pan-European system does seem to be flawed and in many cases unworkable.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

I can deal with most of your points but need to point out one thing:

The ESRB forces no one to edit their games. No one. The people forcing game companies to edit their games in the US are Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and the retailers. They are the problem. They are the ones saying we will not have AO rated games. ESRB is fine with AO rated games.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
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@Darksabre

I'm curious, what would be your ideal outcome? If you had control and could implement and repeal at your leisure, what would you do?

Re: @Darksabre

Go insane with power probably.

Seriously though, I don't know. I'd probably give the job to PEGI just to annoy the die-hard BBFC fans. I'm like that.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: @Darksabre

First off, things have been too hostile between us and i'm the one at fault. So i'm sorry for that.

But I am genuinely curious about your take on classification in the UK.

I'll state where I stand, I think media classification is correct. I agree with the enforcement of BBFC ratings for films and games. But then again, I also think anyone who talks at the cinema should be shot and their corpses should be paraded thru the streets as a warning to others.

EDIT: also forget about the pros and cons of PEGI and BBFC for this. Imagine it in the context of a hypothetical regulator.

Re: @Darksabre

I have no problem with a ratings body that says 'This is suitable for kids, so it gets a Universal rating' 'This is not suitable for anyone inder the age of 18 so it gets an 18 rating'.

My problem comes when they start saying 'Adults aren't responsible enough to play this adult-themed game, so we wont let it be released.'

But like you said, that problem is part the larger one in that I think the Video Recordings Act is out-dated and in need of over-hauling.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: @Darksabre

I think this is more of a culture issue between the US and the UK than anything else.  Those that say "I don't like the idea of banning games" I can understand, but probably cannot see it from the UK perspective as most people are okay with things as they are now and have been for 100 years.  Those that say "I like PEGI because PEGI doesn't ban games and BBFC does" is just either not listening (Erik) or doesnt realise that if you put PEGI in charge, they would HAVE to change the way they do things because there are laws in the UK that govern this; it's not the ratings board that dictates some games shouldn't be rated but the laws that govern them.  Sure ultimately they get the say in what the ratings are and could decide that all games deserve a rating, but that would lead to the media finding examples of "unacceptable content" and the government would have to intervene and appoint a new ratings body.

I hope that makes sense.

Re: @Darksabre

When have I EVER stated that I like PEGI?  So those who haven't  been paying attention: FUCK THE BBFC AND PEGI.  Think for yourselves, rate your own damn media you lazy slobs.

Re: @Darksabre

And if I were talking to you then it might be relevent.

You are getting increasingly thoughtless in your rants.  Now you are suggesting that critics and raters should not exist and everyone should "think for themselves".  Well excuse me, mr no-job-money-bags, but some of us have busy lives and limited funds and would like NOT to buy and play every game in existance to find out if we want to play it in the first place, or if it is suitable for our nephews and nieces.

Do you even hear yourself talk anymore or do you just type whatever comes to mind as an when?  I think there should be a rating on your comments ranging from 12 (IQ rating) to M (Massively stupid)

Re: @Darksabre

It doesn't matter if you were directly speaking to me or not.  You misrepresented me as actually supporting PEGI.

Furthermore, if these groups existed soley for giving their opinion on the content I could grudgingly ignore their existence.  But when they start wielding the power of bannings, or the industry apporaches them for self-censorship THAT is when your reliance on these people to do your thinking for you becomes caustic to the industry as a whole.

Now go wait for the BBFC to tell you what you can watch/play.  I really shouldn't waste my time on puppets such as yourself.

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: @Darksabre

You're right.  I unfairly misrepresented you as not listening.  I SHOULD have suggested you were a moron.

Re: @Darksabre

No, you really did try to imply that I was a PEGI supporter. 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: @Darksabre

I rest my case.

Re: @Darksabre

You have no "case".  You've defered that to the BBFC LONG ago.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Which box would you tick if you wanted to play an untouched version of Madworld, or if you were a Brit who wanted to buy Manhunt 2 during the time it was banned?  Try as you might you just can't sweep these things under your blind faith in the BBFC.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

hmm hard to say since i dont know much of two but i would rather have them regulated them sefts, but like i said it could be something total differnt then the ESRB here in the states. either way you have one of the two telling you the rating.

Thanks Zaruka

 

oh and lets try to be mature with someone choise, dont want this to turn into gt fourm

Thanks Zaruka
 
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quiknkoldMarvel just made my nips hard10/22/2014 - 9:50pm
Andrew EisenMarvel also shows it understands that once it leaks, it's out there and went ahead and officially released the trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmeOjFno6Do10/22/2014 - 9:36pm
E. Zachary KnightMarvel's response is the best.10/22/2014 - 9:31pm
Andrew EisenI'll be streaming some games tonight at 8p PST in preparation for Saturday's marathon. twitch.tv/andreweisen10/22/2014 - 9:30pm
Adam802http://www.cbsnews.com/news/3d-video-games-surprising-concern/10/22/2014 - 9:16pm
MaskedPixelanteI'm not sure how to feel about Ultron's mouth. I'm sure he has one in the comics, but this is getting dangerously close to Transformers "Optimus has a defined mouth and it looks super weird" territory for me.10/22/2014 - 8:49pm
Andrew EisenMarvel on the leaked Avengers 2 trailer: https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/52507165630662656010/22/2014 - 8:09pm
E. Zachary KnightI squeed like a little girl when I watched the leaked Avengers Age of Ultron trailer. So much awesome.10/22/2014 - 6:47pm
quiknkoldI have a problem with games that use a digit for sequals when clearly they can be called something else. Five Nights at Freddy's 2? Nonono. Its "Another Five Nights at Freddy's" or "Five Nights Week 2"10/22/2014 - 5:30pm
E. Zachary KnightExtra Credits has come out against GamerGate. https://www.facebook.com/ExtraCredits/posts/86104175727438610/22/2014 - 5:28pm
E. Zachary Knightis it really that hard to answer a question, that to me seems fairly straight forward? I ask, because I have asked a specific question now 3 times without an actual answer in the wastebook thread.10/22/2014 - 5:20pm
Andrew EisenFive Nights at Freddy's 2! Yay! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVPONdZBh6s10/22/2014 - 5:07pm
Matthew Wilsonyou guys know he doesnt work for ea anymore?10/22/2014 - 5:02pm
WymorenceYou forgot having to open Unity through Origin too. :p10/22/2014 - 4:37pm
MaskedPixelanteUnity will now be licensed out half finished, with remaining tools to be sold back to you for 10-15 dollars a piece.10/22/2014 - 3:23pm
E. Zachary KnightNot a big fan of this news, but Unity3D's CEO is stepping down and John Riccitiello steps up. http://gamasutra.com/view/news/228384/Helgason_steps_down_as_Unity_CEO_and_John_Riccitiello_steps_up.php10/22/2014 - 3:06pm
MaskedPixelanteIt's probably extremism.10/22/2014 - 12:07pm
Matthew Wilsonthat being said, they are more likely to blame religious extremists than games.10/22/2014 - 12:01pm
Matthew Wilsonlets just hope they dont try to blame video games.10/22/2014 - 12:00pm
MaskedPixelanteOh joy, Ottawa's on lockdown, this is going to be a fun couple of days...10/22/2014 - 11:56am
 

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