Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

October 2, 2008 -

PC gamers can rejoice.

Bethesda spokesman Pete Hines has told Shacknews  that the PC flavor of the hotly anticipated Fallout 3 will use a simple DVD check for verification:

[Fallout 3 will be] pretty similar to what we did for Oblivion, which was--we basically don't do any [DRM]--we do the mildest form possible. I actually don't know if I even want to get into what it is that we exactly do, but we try to be really noninvasive when it comes to that stuff.

 

And it is a pain in the ass--it is a pain in the ass that we have to do it at all in the first place. But when you spend tens of millions of dollars, we don't think it's right to just put something out there and let everybody do whatever they want and pass it around...

 

But no, we're pretty mild about how we do it, and we try to do it in a way that prevents folks from exploiting and distributing our games that we worked very hard on... It's very important for us not to ruin the experience for the person who did buy a copy, so we try to be very careful... We want to remove anything that is a hindrance or an annoyance to the player, we're trying to just get to the game and have fun...

Shacknews also notes that Fallout 3 will have no install limit. You listening, EA?

Via: Big Download


Comments

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Pre-ordering now. Thank you bethesda.

 

I actually wasn't going to buy this game, what I'd seen of it before I just stopped paying attention was way too graphic for me, the zombies in oblivion were too much for me too.

But if bethesda listens to its customers like this, I'll encourage it, even to the tune of 50 bucks for a game I'll never play in hopes they continue it for TES V.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Hurrey!

Now we just need to get it on Steam, and 99% of all gamers would be happy. And im sure it would mean more sales. I guess Fallout 3 will have some great multiplayer, so with a solid CDkey check everything should be fine for all of us, with the execption of the pirates who must sit in the cold since they cannot join the online adventure.

I guess everyone can agree that SecuROM failed, with the fact that the initial purpose of the system does not linter the piracy, its as easy to crack as a CD check and that CD check does not need to install "hidden processes" that does not leave the computer with a succesfully uninstallation of the game.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

It's not like SecureROM will defeat real pirates, Spore was cracked within a day or so of it's release.  What was the point?  It didn't stop pirates, it only pissed off customers.  The CD-Key check along with whatever copy protection the disk probably has will hindrence average PC users trying to make a copy to give to their friends or whatever, which it's assumably effective at

 

 

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

No different thanthe copy of Oddworld I got at a thrift store.

As I had said befor,e this DRM crap hsould have stopped at either having the disc in the drive or CD keys.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

As soon as I heard the news, I immediately went out and preordered the ultimate edition from Amazon. This announcement cemented my choice of ordering it for the PC rather than a console as I'd really like for companies to get the message that DRM hinders sales rather than helps it.

If they ever bother to strip out SecureROM from Spore, I'll probably pick that up as well. I'm not too keen on paying money for a game only to have it install shit (and SecureROM is nothing less) on my computer.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

"If they ever bother to strip out SecureROM from Spore, I'll probably pick that up as well."

Meh, don't bother, it's not that good. Unless it's on budget and even then I'm not sure it's worth having.

Gift.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Disk-checking is fine by me. I'll probably be getting the console version of Fallout 3 though. My PC sucks too much atm, and I don't have the money for upgrades... Though, my 360 is also broken and I don't have the money to fix it.... ...Life sucks... T-T

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

First off farther down the interview Hines is asked specifically about install limits and replies with "I don't know." Considering Bethesda's history though I kind of doubt we'll see any. Secondly if those out there who can't stand Disc-Checks are willing to spend a little money and roll the dice you can pick up a program called Game Jackal. It basically reads your disc once and creates a no-cd patch for your game. I've found it doesn't work on everything, namely SecuROM 7 protection, but it's still pretty handy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hookers and Ice Cream aren't free. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5137-...

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Well done Bethedsa. You get rewarded with a purchase of Fallout 3 on the PC from me.

EA / Spore... you'll get nothing and like it.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

I was already planning on buying Fallout 1 and 2 as well as the tactics game from GoG.com This has solidified my desire to buy Fallout 3.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

 Yay! It'll be out just in time for me to finish exams and i can buy it without feeling like I'm supporting something stupid at all...

You know, unless the game is really bad but i have every impression that they *tried* on this one so they can have some points anyway.

*nuzzles his multiple legal copies of fallout 1+2* (one of them is an impromptu gift for a friend who needs to understand what love is)

 

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

To me, I don't mind having to insert a disk in the drive to play a game. It is like that on consoles.

But  Ido understand people who don't. They expect their PC games to function the same as their other software. Can you imagine if Microsoft required you to insert the Office disk every time. Or Adobe did when you wanted to use Photoshop. They want their PC using experience to be seemless an consistant.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

A good DRM setup allows full off line installation and play, then offers less disc protections if you use the online authentication you may play it without the disc, hell if you register the game you could install it without a passcode but it links that game to an account in a way as you need the email address of the account or number off it to play the game, think of it as a 2ndary backup code that allows you to install the game without the manuals code but tis linked to an account.
Of corse if there is a flood of 10+ installs a day there might be something bad going on. Pubs need to remember DRM should be for flood control not install limits.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

On a somewhat random note, I love what Blizzard's been doing. As far as I know they've only ever used a common CD key plan with their games, and now they're even loosening up on that. An official patch was released for Starcraft and Warcraft 3 that made them not require you to have the CDs in the drive anymore, and if you make an account on Blizzard's web site you can register your CD keys for Starcraft, Warcraft 3, and Diablo 2. Doing that stores the CD keys in your Blizzard account for easy recovery, and also lets you re-download any game you've registered at any time.

 

Totally optional process, but a pretty cool way of doing things, IMO. I wish I'd found out about it before I lost my Diablo 2 discs. (>_<) I guess Blizzard doesn't have as much to worry about, though, with pretty much all of their games having online multiplayer (which is the only place having more than one person using the same CD key actually matters) as a huge draw.
---
I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.


---
I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Now if only they would do that with Warcraft 2 Battle.Net That thing still requires a cd.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

I would be cool with a primary install where I dont need a disc for my main computer that always has online, and a disc requirement for the rest of my computers.  That is just me though.  I only have 4 computers I have games on that I use in a given month, and one of them is about to die for good (laptop that cost more than it is worth to fix). 

Yeah, I could live with that...  I want at least one install that doesnt need a disc as long as I have an online connection though.  It would be okay if I couldnt have more than one computer using the game at the same time with an online connection as well...  I donno, this is a whole mess. 

So many different people have different needs.  A family could buy a game, and have a father and son that both want to play it.  In all honesty, these games cost too fucking (sorry for the language, but it is that insane) much for them to require you to buy 2 games to be able to both play.  I can buy a new movie for $15 and how many ever people are over can play it, but Spore cost $50, and in all honesty, this game doesnt have that long of a lifespan of entertainment.  I would say it has 20 hours for one person. 

A movie is at least 2 hours for a group of 4, so 8 hours total at $15.  Times 3 for $45 and 24 hours total.  So less money/entertainment hour.  I have to say the replay value isnt as great as it should be either for Spore.  While a movie you can hand off to a friend and their family or whoever to watch, it isnt locked to your DVD player, and that isn't illegal.  Yet handing off a game somehow is?  Wait a second am I missing something?

So yes, protection is fine, but DRM went overboard.

I have no good answer, and Zip has a decent one, I give up.

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

"

I would be cool with a primary install where I dont need a disc for my main computer that always has online, and a disc requirement for the rest of my computers.  That is just me though.  I only have 4 computers I have games on that I use in a given month, and one of them is about to die for good (laptop that cost more than it is worth to fix). 

Yeah, I could live with that...  I want at least one install that doesnt need a disc as long as I have an online connection though.  It would be okay if I couldnt have more than one computer using the game at the same time with an online connection as well...  I donno, this is a whole mess. 

So many different people have different needs.  A family could buy a game, and have a father and son that both want to play it.  In all honesty, these games cost too fucking (sorry for the language, but it is that insane) much for them to require you to buy 2 games to be able to both play.  I can buy a new movie for $15 and how many ever people are over can play it, but Spore cost $50, and in all honesty, this game doesnt have that long of a lifespan of entertainment.  I would say it has 20 hours for one person. 

A movie is at least 2 hours for a group of 4, so 8 hours total at $15.  Times 3 for $45 and 24 hours total.  So less money/entertainment hour.  I have to say the replay value isnt as great as it should be either for Spore.  While a movie you can hand off to a friend and their family or whoever to watch, it isnt locked to your DVD player, and that isn't illegal.  Yet handing off a game somehow is?  Wait a second am I missing something?

So yes, protection is fine, but DRM went overboard.

I have no good answer, and Zip has a decent one, I give up.

"

So you are saying I haz brains there for the world ends so why bother thinking about it anymore? :P
EZK putout a good one but frankly it dose not deal with mass installs andinfermation over your..er.."installs" I'll go into more detail  under EZKs post..

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

One of the coolest features of any game I ever played is the Blizzard Spawn install. This allows you to install a spawn of your instal onto another computer and the two computers can play with each other as long as the full install has the cd. This is perfect for multiplayer PC games. This would so help out on Co-op mode for many PC games.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

"""""""""""""""'One of the coolest features of any game I ever played is the Blizzard Spawn install. This allows you to install a spawn of your instal onto another computer and the two computers can play with each other as long as the full install has the cd. This is perfect for multiplayer PC games. This would so help out on Co-op mode for many PC games."""""""""""


Well spwan setup dose not sound bad as an added layer to "friendly" DRM.

But frankly I would like to  try and have more control over the process from a pub stand point, even so much giving out spawn keys from a registered account, this process can be simplified with a easily gotten file and/or email+5 digit code with this they could l even let users mail links for the spawn install, or let users distro it off the disc or file and letting friends puts their "spawn code" in and you are linked to everyone under the main install.



I would like to see a simple but feature rich setup that only hassles consumers if a bad key is found other wise you have full off line play with a minuim of disc protection.



I go over even more things in the forms.
http://forums.theeca.com/showthread.php?p=87255#post87255

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Good, I was already planning on buying this - with no DRM, you can GUARANTEE I will get it.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Hopefully this, with the outcry over Spore and the impending class-action lawsuit, will cause EA to ditch SecuROM entirely for the release of C&C: Red Alert 3, as both games are being released around the same time.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Not to mention that given the history of the Red Alert series, it will be freakin' awesome and it'd be a terrible shame to have people not buy an awesome game because of a very valid reason.

"That's not ironic. That's justice."

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

luckly this bethesda guy is listen to folks out there... but it's hard for EA to listen when it has their heads up their arses

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

omg, finally someone is listening

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Well that's just stupid.

DVD checks are annoying as hell and will bother legit users, while pirated versions will come with a no-DVD crack and the pirates will be rewarded, yet again.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Perhaps a little, but most people really don't mind.

I'm sure many people don't even consider it odd that you need the media in to play. After all, the same applies to CD players, DVD players, consoles, video recorders, record players, and old computers that ran off floppy disk or tape.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

No DVD check?

Game companys have to protect their work somehow, and Bethesda is doing it painlessly.  If you can't get the disc and put it in the drive then you are just lazy.

--- Official Protector of Videoland!

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Is EA hiring people to do pro-DRM PR on this site or something?

DVD checks aren't all that different from just running straight off the disc.  It's a little annoying to some I guess but I find it much better than installing a root file, without my consent, onto my computer that cannot be deleted.

As for the piracy comment you're just wasting your breath.  Piracy will never go away no matter what the companies do.  Much like other illegal activities it will always be around.  Companies may have a right to protect their IPs but legit customers have a right to not be affected by the collatoral damage in an effort to stop the pirates.  To think that a DVD check "rewards" pirates is, quite frankly, a stupid thing to say.  No defense is fool proof.

 

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

 Yes, yes they are.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

I take it you hate console gaming just for that fact?

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Sorry?

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

I'd imagine the logic is that console games require you to have the game in the drive. Ergo, if he hates being forced to have a disc in the DVD drive, he must not be found of console games either.

-Gray17

-Gray17

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

That is exactly my point.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

I think a key difference is that a console needs the disc in the drive because it needs it there to constantly read things from it. PCs have big enough hard drives to hold the contents of the disc many times over, so there's no technological reason for the disc check.

That said, I don't like the disc check either, but it's something I can live with. As long as it's not insane like the old Morrowind disc checking, anyway; I had to crack that because it was dragging my performance into the toilet.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

But the point is that, despite the reason for it, having to put the disk in isn't as much of an inconvenience as some people claim it to be, and in the days of dangerous and invasive DRM, disk checks are NOT what we should be complaining about. I think people need to pick their battles. In the end, disk checks are uninvasive, a very minor inconvenience, and about as effective as any other form of DRM. Right now, with monsters such as SecuROM and the like, that's the kind of copy protection we should be striving for, not fighting against.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

True. Consoles don't allow you to install everything on the harddrive. Some not at all.

Id make my point on this a little further down, but for clarification, I don't mind CD checks. It makes gaming consistent accross platforms.

But I do understand why people hate it, because it make you PC experience inconstistent.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

"I don't mind CD checks. It makes gaming consistent accross platforms."

Except, as you allude to below, from a PC gamer's perspective consistent means inconvenient. PC's have larger hardisks, there's no need to run a game off of a disk or even look at said disk once installed.

Gift.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

And DVD checks are also far more acceptable in that as long as you've got your disk, you can play. No malware installing itself in your kernel to check online authentication servers that might not be there in a few years, or refuse to let you play after a couple of installs or hardware upgrades.

-Gray17

-Gray17

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

"DVD checks are also far more acceptable in that as long as you've got your disk"

That's the problem though isnt it? As you can't make a back up if that disk gets damaged you've got to get another or a crack. Just as irritating as any other form of DRM IMO, and it still treats the consumer like a criminal. It's unfortunate that we've got to the point that people think Bethesda are doing us all a favour by using a disk check on Fallout 3.

Gift.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Just imagine. If Bethesda, which I think is some kind of subsidiary of 2K Games, which is a subsidiary of Take Two, got bought by EA, then we probably WOULD have a one install limit on this game.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Umm no......Bethesda is its own publisher and its own dev, from time to time they will join with other publishers to get a game out or re release it but for the msot part they are their own dev/pub house.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
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Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Ahh... well then, never mind. It seems that these people get it. Getting the game out to as many people as possible is much more important than risking $300,000 of sales just to keep from losing $300.

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

I really wonder if thre isn't some way to do digital distribution via a virtual drive tool.  I don't know if it would be possible but it seems to me like you should be able to DL an .iso file you can mount into a virtual drive and that would satisfy the disc check.

I know there would be some technological difficulties, maybe a way to prevent the file from being copied?  Like you can transfer the the single copy you can DL (or maybe can copy it 2 or 3 times).

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

The thing is, making a piece of digital information uncopyable is the whole point of DRM. That's what it's trying to DO. Everything from SecuROM to Safedisk to Tages to Star-Force, it's all an attempt at stopping people from illegally copying and distributing software.

Due to the very nature of digital information, however, you can't prevent someone from copying it without installing an invasive program that monitors the computer and attempts to stop you if it decides you are trying to do something it doesn't want you to do. That's exactly what most DRM is, a program that tries to recognize if you are pirating software, and to put a stop to it if it decides that you are.

Writing software that can't be copied is kind of like writing a song that only you would physically be able to sing, or a school essay that nobody would be able to plagiarize.

The whole point of a physical disk check is that you can't copy it. It's imperfect since people DO have ways of copying it, but in the end that's still its purpose. Converting the disk into a digital equivalent, an ISO file, would be taking away the only strength it has. The ISO would become just another computer file, and checking it would do no more good than checking to make sure the game's own .exe file is still there.

I wish copy protection could be that simple, but without invasive and potentially harmful programs monitoring your computer usage, it's not. =/

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

They have the technology and the ability o make reasonably consumer friendly DRM.
You install it with a key it has disc protection you may have the option of online authentication and remove the disc protection from your copy.
The trouble comes the industry is only interested in PR and hyperbole...Consumer friendly? only if forced....

IMO it should a 3 way setup.
1.Key for install and personalization, disc protection + key ensures the consumer may play the mostly whole game offline, online only is a taboo.
2.Online authent removes disc protection.
3.Register for an account and you can manage your DRM driven games.


If they use this setup the hard install limits before flood indicators instead of limiting the game to 3-5 tokens which might be doubled for the real hard limit in a set period of time you use this system as away to prevent flooding installs.

You can backup Key check with a key check server that is passize and works in the back ground to check the key each time you play but it dose not force anything unless it finds your key is bad.


This process is meant to slow illegitimate installs and not rape the consumer in the arse.

With the top new PC games being DRM riddled I have stop buying new ones the added hassle has made them worth-less to me as I don't feel comfortable buying it for more than 15$ wif shipping..

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

I can not praise them for doing what they should automatically doing in the first place, but I can speak badly about the people who do what they shouldnt be doing.

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

So what?  I'd take DRM that requires hourly blood tests if it meant I could play the noncensorphip version of the game.

 

EA > Bethesda   At least in the testicles department.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

That's a pretty retarded thing to say. Ooh, they changed "morphine" into "med-x"! Oh noes! You really shouldn't get your panties in a bunch over something so insignificant.

Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

Fallout 3 was censored because gamers don't have "the testicles" to fight for uncensored games.

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Re: Bethesda: No Nasty DRM for Fallout 3

By "censorship" do you mean just "changing the word 'morphine' to something better fitting the rest of the game"? Because if so, dude.

 
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Andrew EisenSleaker - I'd say that's likely. From my experience, most who have a problem with Sarkeesian's videos either want to hate them in the first place (for whatever reason) or honestly misunderstand what they're about and what they're saying.08/29/2014 - 3:16pm
james_fudgeWe appreciate your support :)08/29/2014 - 2:55pm
TechnogeekIt gives me hope that maybe, just maybe, the gaming community is not statistically indistinguishable from consisting entirely of people that your average Xbox Live caricature would look at and go "maybe you should tone it down a little bit".08/29/2014 - 2:49pm
TechnogeekI just want to say that while I've disagreed with the staff of this site on several occasions, it's still good to see that they're not automatically dismissing Anita's videos as a "misandrist scam" or whatever the preferred dismissive term is these days.08/29/2014 - 2:49pm
E. Zachary KnightZippy, So you can't find even one?08/29/2014 - 1:04pm
ZippyDSMleeAndrew Eisen:Right because shes prefect and never exaggerates... *rolls eyes*08/29/2014 - 12:53pm
SleakerAnd honestly, nearly all of the games she references, or images she depicts I've always cringed at and wondered why they were included in games to begin with, from pinups through explicit sexual depictions or direct abuse. I think it's cheap storytelling.08/29/2014 - 12:35pm
Sleaker@AE - aren't most people fundamentally misunderstanding her at this point? haha.. On a related note I think a lot of the backlash is coming from males that think she is telling them their 'Generic Male Fantasy' is bad and wrong.08/29/2014 - 12:33pm
Andrew EisenAnd no, I don't think the female community would be upset over the performance of a case study in and of itself. Possibly the mostivations behind such a study, the methodology or conclusions but not the mere idea of a case study.08/29/2014 - 12:29pm
 

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