New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

November 10, 2008 -

Despite those well-publicized Barack Obama ads on Xbox Live, some gamers remain leery of the President-elect's views on video games, according to the New York Times.

The NYT's Brian Stelter writes:

Some players say they are concerned about other interruptions to their games that they consider more serious. Blog posts scoring Mr. Obama’s positions on video games have received hundreds of comments, with some readers worrying that his admonitions during the campaign to “put the video games away” signaled new regulations or restrictions on the industry...

A Web site called GamePolitics, established by a pro-gaming consumer advocacy group, pointed out in February that Mr. Obama had given campaign speeches in which games were used as a metaphor for underachievement.

Mr. Obama’s answers to a questionnaire by the nonprofit group Common Sense Media last year echoed the theme. He indicated that he supported parental controls for both television and video games and called on the video game industry to “give parents better information” and improve the voluntary ratings system. “If the industry fails to act, then my administration would,” he wrote.

GP: Seeing GamePolitics cited in the NYT is sweet, even if they did forget to include a link.

UPDATE: The fiery Obama image at left is part of DLC released for Mercenaries 2 by Pandemic Studios.


Comments

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Dems like gun control on the mistaken impression that it reduces crime, not because they think they can protect you better. And I think it's been well established that every breed of politician likes to bash games when it suits them.

And the Fairness Doctrine like most of the FCC, is an unacceptable breach of the first amendment, but Obama said he doesn't support the fairness doctrine.

----------------------------------------------------

"What for you bury me in the cold cold ground?" - Tasmanian devil

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Were it not for the 2nd amendment I would be for gun control.  Often people who claim to be "responsible gun owners" are often just scary ass, gun-nut, psychotic, redneck assholes.  I have more issue with them than the "illegal gun owners" who buy guns on the street for petty crime.  But alas, 2nd Amendment.

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Wow...overgeneralize much?  From what I've seen, the stereotypes you try and play off of tend to be in the grand minority.  The majority of people who own gun licenses don't even get parking tickets.  They almost never use their weapons for crimes, and are for the most part ideal citizens.  Why you fear law abiding citizens more than people who buy and use guns illegally is beyond me.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

I feel I need to repeat myself.  I have no problems with criminals owning guns.  The people I have issue with are the Charelton Hestonphille, NRA gun-nuts.  Those guys are scary as fuck.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Actually, their argument is usually a bit of both on the gun control issue.  When asked "why not just defend yourself" they usually say that it's the job of the police to do so.  I think that is the major flaw in their argument, so that's the part that I usually stick to.

Also, I never mentioned Obama with the fairness doctrine in my last post.  I simply said that the Democratic party as a whole supports it. 

Also of note worth mentioning, seeing how it was brought up by Father Time:  The FCC was put in place by the Democratic Party.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Those bastards, well I guess in their defense (don't know why I feel so obliged to defend them) it's mostly conservative groups that go crying to the FCC whenever there's something on TV they don't like.

I've never heard the argument 'it's the police's job to defend you' it seems such a stupid argument.

----------------------------------------------------

"What for you bury me in the cold cold ground?" - Tasmanian devil

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

I used to argue with gun regulators for fun a few months ago or so.  The argument is dumb, but it does come up fairly often.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Erik please stop talking or at least stop using ad hominem attacks. It makes all of us who lean slightly left look bad.

----------------------------------------------------

"What for you bury me in the cold cold ground?" - Tasmanian devil

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

How about instead I distance myself from you by saying I do more than just slightly "lean" left.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

There is always importing from Europe if our government decides to protect the people.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Europe is hardly a bastion of media freedom.  I'd say Canada is still a safe place.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

You wish. Non-PC published speech gets you trotted in front of a "human rights tribunal".

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

btw we sometimes sell to kids underage, but only if we know that the parents bought an m rated game before, and if the kid is like 16. But we know some of our customers preety well

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

I work at Gamestop. And We let all parents know. The problem are the parents. Some dude came in with a 4 year old once and asked the kid what he wanted and he said God of War 2. We read what was on the back, and I thought he was (surely) gonna say no...but he told me alright just put it in the bag. This is an extreme (I hope) but still shows that parents dont care...My mom buys M rated games for my 8 year old brother, ok with him watching R games...She lets him gets away with a let

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 Some people just don't put any stock into ratings.  I don't, and my parents never did when I was growing up.  I saw Terminator 2 and RoboCop 2 in the theaters when I wasn't even in grade school yet.  They never cared about the ratings of games as I was growing up (granted, the ESRB wasn't really around for a good portion of it).  Now a days, I find it difficult to kill a spider if it's not necessary, let alone going on horrible murderous rampages (which is something most people like JT, Joe Lieberman, and all other sorts of people predict I'd do).

Ratings are entirely subjective.  If a parent decides not to care about them, it doesn't make them a bad parent.  If the parents let the little snot become an overly violent prick (torturing animals, bullying, etc), then that becomes bad parenting.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

I'm not the least bit worried.  I get the impression that the President Elect simply doesn't know much about the issue.  Like the article said, gaming was mostly used by Obama as a "metaphor for underachevement" (a bit unfair, but understandable from a driven guy like him).  If he really does think the ratings system is broken in any way, then he probably got that information from anti-gaming lobbyists squaking scary and ridiculous claims in his ear.  If he sat down to actually look at the issue, then he'd probably see that there isn't much to worry about.

The ESRB is fine.  The only things that need improved is parent awareness, and maybe stores being taken to task for selling M rated games to people under 17 without an adult present (not through legal enforcement, of course, but maybe an embarrassing public statement to get the store to pay more attention).

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Would you rather Obama, or Palin, who's got an actual track record of supporting goverment censorship.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

You mean banning the books that didn't exisit?

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

She did propose banning books but I don't think anyone other than the people involved know which books. There are some false lists of banned books floating around though.

----------------------------------------------------

 "What for you bury me in the cold cold ground?" - Tasmanian devil

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 Neither, but you're comparing a presidential candidate (now elect) and a VP candidate.  The constitution gives no power to the VP.  They're only legally bound to be the leader of the Senate.  They get no vote unless to break a tie.  Back when the office was first enacted, it was viewed by the people holding the position to be the most worthless and degrading position to be in.  Now compare this to the office of the president.  You're basically comparing apples and raisins (more different than an orange, and much more insignificant than an apple).

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 Well we can always look towards the future... first off there is the chance of McCain passing away in office and giving the reigns to Palin; how high or low this chance is is rather unknown (though i vaguely recall some report saying it was like 20% chance or something like that)...

Another thing to take into account is that Palin would have been riding McCain's coattails... Now if McCain did a good job as president, that would indeed be a good thing for the next 4 years. The problem is that even if Palin didn't do anything for those 4 years, she would be using McCain's success to help her in her own campaign... with the charisma she shares with republicans despite making herself look like an idiot around the nation and her popularity numbers hade been dropping since september, getting the republican nomination seems like it would be a no brainer for her (pun not intended)... Give her Carl Rove's playbook to help her make the democrat running look like the greater of two evils and we could be looking at Palin in 2012

Really, as it stands, i am really hoping a competent republican will be stepping up in 2012 to steal the republican spotlight away from palin and dashing any hope she might have of ever getting even remotely close to the whitehouse... really, just about anyone would be a better choice than her

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Okay, but that's completely ignoring the fact that if McCain was elected, Palin would become President in the event of his death, and he's not a young man. So, yes, I'd very much prefer Obama over a President who would be a heart attack away from putting Sarah Palin in charge.
---
I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.


---
I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

I don't think it is much to worry about. I'd like to think that they would at least look at the rating before they would take any steps, and anyone looking at any retail game box would QUICKLY be able to see just how accurate and comprehensive the ESRB ratings are.

Compare them to the MPAA ratings which only give a general idea of what age should be able to see something without detailing why.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

IF you can even find the MPAA ratings on the box that is.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 better bring a microscope.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

I'm guessing an electron microscope?

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Nah, that calls for an atomic force microscope

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_force_microscope

And even then, it may not be enough.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

  President Elect Obama, like McCain, is a senator. Their minds are geared towards lawmaking.  Laws are restrictions against unfettered freedom (I'm not against good laws I just think there are too many bullshit laws).

  So when someone with that mindset sees a problem, restrictions are usually their answer.  Personally I distrust all politicians and will not be surprised if Obama supports restrictions down the road.  Will gamers then defend his actions? Probably.  Shitheads.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

So who are you calling shitheads again, politicians or gamers who will eventually support them if they support restrictions in the future?

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Hell, I think both deserve that title.

If you are a politician, unless proven otherwise, I consider you a shit head.

If you support a politician that is doing things that are utterly wrong because of their party affiliation, then I also consider you a shit head. (I also vote that you get hit with a brick at some point in your life, because you contribute to the US remaining a two party system)

"

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Obama is not Clinton. I think he's pretty pro-free speech. His views on games IMHO extend to moderation and making sure kids are not playing them all day long. He's not saying kids should not play games whatsoever, all he's saying is that they shouldn't be couped up inside all day playing games and watching T.V. and their parents should make them go outside and do other things. Seems like common sense to me.

 

"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment

"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

hence the fairness doctrine.


Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Which he has said he does not support.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Gee, I've never seen a politician pander before, this is so confusing.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

“If the industry fails to act, then my administration would,”

That is messed up right there. The ESRB is one of the most comprehensive rating systems on the planet and he is critizing them. It really does show that he is either

A) Ignorant of how the system works and how thorugh it is.

or

B) Is giving consideration to imposing federal guidelines for video game creation and distrubtion like in many European nations.

While I do view it as more than likely scenario A, I will also be the first to tell you that Liberals and Democrats are the first people to promote censorship of anything that they think might be offesive to a small percentage.

"

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 " improve the voluntary ratings system. "

Is someone able to explain this statement?  Does that mean stores that sell video games have to ask for ID like they do for cigarettes? (or is that only in Canada?)

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 Legally, no.  However, shops usually do in order to get good press.  It's supposed to be "voluntary," yet if they don't do it the government threatens action.  So basically, video games are coerced into rating their games, for better or worse, which is a bit hypocritical for a supposedly free society.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 I agree with ratings because that helps parents determine what's in the game having not seen it just like movies.  When I was young I knew I would never get to see a restricted movie until I was old enough.  That was ok with me.  My mother put limits on what television shows I could watch because of the graphic, horrific nature of them. I had a bedtime until I was 16.  I wasn't allowed to date until then.  Most rules I followed, some I didn't and I accepted the consequences if I knew I was going to deliberately break them.

When a child is a minor, it's the parent's responsibility to protect them because they are the individuals who set limits that children need and want even if they are not consciously aware.  Most parents should know their child's limits unless they are totally clued out and not paying attention to their development.  I will agree with you that some kids are more mature than others when it comes to the graphic scenes and violence in video games, but you can't assume that for everyone.

As for the 'free society' notion, if that's the case then bootleg copies of video games would readily be available at a lower cost or free without punishment, just so to be inclusive of everyone and companies developing them wouldn't care about loosing money.

Your using 'free' in the Libertarian sense... a functioning society has to have limits in order to continue to call itself a 'free society' and that's meant mostly in the marketplace.  

For example, I'm going to use the current economic and banking system as a simile to parenting v. immature wants that usually comes with childhood as a result of excellent marketing.  

Because of a lack of regulations in the 'free economy' the American mortgage companies started loaning out to whomever they wanted despite of their knowing their clients couldn't afford those loans (they encouraged the gimme gimme, instant gratification of 'want', I can handle this).  As a result their clients couldn't make payments and defaulted on the loans in a catastrophic way.  The banks loaning the mortgage co.s the money couldn't get their money back and like dominos other banks fell across the world and shut down because there was no money to pay the bills.  Once there is no money to loan, then new businesses can't start nor can exisiting companies call upon a bank for a loan to run their business, make upgrades to their business or pay their employees.  Once the company can't function they close down, causing a lose of jobs.  Once people don't have jobs, if they are parents they don't money to buy video games...

Do you see how this 'free society' in the 'free economy' that wasn't properly regulated in the first place caused so much chaos because of a few irresponsible mortgage lenders and banks?  It doesn't mean all banks are irresponsible but look at what those that were did to the worlds economy!

Now think about it in terms of gaming.  There are irresponsible parents out there that don't give shite about what their kids get themselves into and give in to whining and begging to satisfy childish wants instead of setting limits that ends up causing society harm or themselves & their kids harm in some way.  Call those limits regulations if you will.  

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

All that is really needed is education of parents. We have the same problem here in the UK - ratings are given and are by-and-large appropriate, it's just that certain retailers don't enforce them and parents consider them to be mere guidelines.

The point really needs to be hammered home that an 18-rated game is just as graphic as an 18-rated movie, and just as inappropriate for children. (if not more so, due to the immersive nature of the medium). If a child watches a marathon of 18-rated movies and goes on a killing spree, I have no doubt that the studios wouldn't get nearly as much blame as is heaped on video games. I think it basically comes down to parents still being of the mindset that video games are for children, and so they don't really consider that some games may be aimed at adults.

With regards to Obama's equating of videogames to underachievement, I think that he's probably just pandering to the crowds - nobody who has used technology as extensively and successfully as Obama (including the use of in-game ads) could possibly be stupid enough to tar all gamers with the same brush.

I don't think anyone can argue that providing parents with more information is a bad thing, the problem comes when parents don't pay attention to the information they've already been provided.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

"The point really needs to be hammered home that an 18-rated game is just as graphic as an 18-rated movie, and just as inappropriate for children. (if not more so, due to the immersive nature of the medium). If a child watches a marathon of 18-rated movies and goes on a killing spree, I have no doubt that the studios wouldn't get nearly as much blame as is heaped on video games."

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

 

as far as childrens intake of materials, I think its the parents decision, so therefore enforcing the sale of items rated higher only to people who are above that means that any of this "it was the video games fault my kid done gone killed 15 other then shot hisself with the assault rifle I bought him for his 13th birthday" cannot be used to absolve parents of the guilt.

I think parents need educating that a game rated 18 or "M" contains stuff which would be in a similarly rated film, which they wouldn't let their dear spawn seeing. In the end if Mummy or Daddy buys little johnny a violent video game because johnny wasn't old enough to buy it himself, then no-one in the industry can be blamed for this.

Anyone else think that anyone who lets their young have uncontrolled access to assault weapons, needs to be charged as an accessory to any crimes said young commit with those weapons.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

it's just that certain retailers don't enforce them and parents consider them to be mere guidelines.

I find this statement of yours ironic from the standpoint that here in the US, the ratings are mere guidelines.

-Gray17

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 Exactly.  Who's to say that something is only suitable for an 18 year old.  It's a subjective, personal opinion.  Sure, they try to standardize it to make it less subjective, but still, the ones who really know whether or not something is suitable for their kids are the parents.  

It's for this reason that the ratings should be guidelines.  Saying that no one under 13 should ever see a movie or play a game that has been given a minimum age rating of 13 years is just dumb, as different people view and experience things differently.  Same thing with R ratings.  However, this doesn't mean you should let some 12 year old go in to buy something rated for an adult, but you shouldn't force this practice as a law.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 I couldn't disagree with you more Thomas

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

 Fair enough, but I'm just curious about what exactly you disagree with.

A) ratings being subjective

B) ratings being guidelines

C) a child's media input should be decided by the parent, and that if they choose something rated for a higher age then that child should be able to play/view this higher rated media

D) That different people in the same age group respond differently to the same kind of media.

E) That there shouldn't be laws put in place to stop minors from buying higher age rated media.

F) some or all of the above.

I'm set in my viewpoint, seeing how I grew up with no restrictions as to the movies I watched or the games I played, I knew many people who grew up the same way, and we're all fully functional adults with minor mental deficiencies (and fully functional senses of humor).  I'm simply curious about your point of view.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

C) if they are minors

and E) 

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

Ah, well then we disagree at the most fundamental level.  Fair enough.  If you search my name in this thread, I think I put forward my case well enough on those points.  If you're still not swayed in the least bit then we can at least agree to disagree.

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

I agree with you 100%. IMHO age limits on entertainment media are extremely arbitrary. That's not to say i think young children should be exposed to this stuff, but once it comes to older minors and teenagers, i don't see the harm or problem.

Actually i believe Free speech restrictions on older minors and teenagers are dangerous and an indirect form of state sponsored thought and mind control as they are restricting the dissemination of ideas, information, messages, opinions and viewpoints based on the belief that is is unsuitable or inappropriate. Free Speech cannot be curtailed because the nanny-state finds it offensive. That is sole responsibility of the parents and could extend to speech like the Holy Bible, Harry Potter novels, Charles Darwin's Origin of the Species which could be found offensive in the eyes of many people/parents.

 

"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment

"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

So long as hsi views remain his own and no policies are enacted on them, I don't give a flying fuck what his views on gaming are.

Still, that doesn't sound good.

 

And why do I get the feeling Mr Obama might need a new fax machine thanks to a certain never-has-been ex-attorney?

Re: New York Times: Some Gamers Leery of Obama

He's a democrat, while he may try to reflect the views of the majority, democrats are at the very least just as bad as republicans about pushing their beliefs on others.

He seems fairly moderate though, so it's a wait and see thing. The first generation of 3D video gamers is coming out of high school, and the first generation of geeks is entering old age.

We'll see what happens, hopefully he'll focus on our movie/television media, which is MUCH MUCH more violent and realistic than our digital media.


 
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TechnogeekIf the developer were male there wouldn't have been a "conversation" in the first place.10/19/2014 - 2:27am
Montetrolls are just at their absolute worst when it comes to women and feminist. You could bet good money that if the developer were male the trolls would be silent and the conversation would actually focus on the journalism.10/18/2014 - 9:18pm
MontePapa: Not the first time we've had a journalism scandals before, but the harassment never got close to this level; the difference with this scandal is that feminists are involved. Without the feminist angle, their would be A LOT less harrassment10/18/2014 - 9:15pm
Papa MidnightMonte: That's honestly rather short-sighted. As has been proven with other persons who have been targeted, if it wasn't Quinn, it would be someone else.10/18/2014 - 6:26pm
AvalongodI think that's part of what gives an esoteric news story like this real life...it taps into a larger narrative about misogyny in society outside of games.10/18/2014 - 3:29pm
Avalongod@Monte, well the trolls made death threats that came to police (and media attention). I think this is tapping into a larger issue outside of games about how women are treated in society (like all the "real rape" stuff during the last election)10/18/2014 - 3:28pm
WonderkarpZippy : Havent tried the PS4 controller. might later.10/18/2014 - 2:37pm
MonteSeirously, If Quinn was not involved and GG was instead about something like the Mordor Marketing contracts, the trolling would have never grown so vile and disgusting. There have been plenty of movements in the past that never sufferred from behavior..10/18/2014 - 1:57pm
MonteWe have seen scandel's before but the trolling has never been as vile as what we see with GG. Trolls usually have such a tiny voice you can barely notice them, but its like moths to a flame whenever femistist are involved.10/18/2014 - 1:53pm
ZippyDSMleeWonderkarp: You might be able to if you had a PS4 controller.10/18/2014 - 1:00pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://store.steampowered.com/app/327940/ Night Dive starts charging for freeware.10/18/2014 - 12:21pm
Matthew Wilsonthe sad thing is there are trolls on both sides of this. people need to stop acting like their side is so pure.10/18/2014 - 12:19pm
MechaTama31So, only speak out on a scandal that hasn't attracted trolls? I wouldn't hold my breath...10/18/2014 - 10:49am
MonteI feel like GG just needs to die. The movement is FAR to tainted by hatred and BS for it to be useful for any conversation. Let GG die, and then rally behind the NEXT gaming journalism scandal, and start the conversation fresh.10/18/2014 - 10:33am
quiknkoldand we dont have a Dovakin to call a cease fire10/17/2014 - 7:37pm
quiknkoldThe whole thing is Futile. Both sides are so buried deep in their trenchs that there isnt a conversation. Its just Finger Pointing, Name Calling, Doxxing, Threats. there needs to be a serious conversation, and GG isnt it.10/17/2014 - 7:37pm
quiknkoldI thought it was a good article. Jeff is right. I feel like GamerGate did destroy its message. I am for Ethics in game journalism, but man. so much hate. and its on both sides. I've seen some awful stuff spewed on twitter. Its a big reason why I exited..10/17/2014 - 7:34pm
Matthew Wilsonwhile he focused on gg, he did call out both sides crap.10/17/2014 - 7:18pm
Papa MidnightThat was a damn good read offered by Jeff Gertsmann.10/17/2014 - 7:17pm
Matthew Wilsonhttp://www.giantbomb.com/articles/letter-from-the-editor-10-17-2014/1100-5049/ deferentially a nice write up.10/17/2014 - 6:44pm
 

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