Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

November 19, 2008 -

If comments by the head of the Copyright Alliance are any indication of things to come, it's going to be difficult, indeed, for video game consumers to have an intelligent and productive dialogue on IP issues with the video game industry. The ESA, which represents U.S. video game publishers, is a member of the copyright lobbying group.

A portion of a recent blog entry by Copyright Alliance executive director Patrick Ross seeks to marginalize those who would question or criticize the current state of IP law. Ross displays a discouraging mentality reminiscent of the Bush administration's efforts to paint Iraq War critics as soft on national defense.

With elected officials, consumer interest groups and gamers asking legitimate questions about issues like SecuROM DRM, the DMCA, ACTA, PRO-IP, and ownership of user-created content, we were disheartened to read these words from Ross:

Copyright truly is a consensus issue, with people and policymakers of all stripes recognizing its value. A few vocal blogs and a few sympathetic media outlets tend to create this notion of a war between creative industries and, well, I suppose consumers, but such a war doesn’t really exist.

The Copyright Alliance head implies that if one does not get behind IP protection as the content industry sees it, then one is either on the fringe, supportive of piracy, or both. In other words, If you're not with us, you're against us.

That's nonsense.

Honest people don't support piracy. But neither do honest people wish - or deserve - to live in an IP police state where tech-challenged elected officials accept IP industry campaign donations and proceed to pass laws that are heavily, if not completely, slanted toward big business.

Get a clue, Mr. Ross.

Comments

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

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Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

This is not the IP you are looking for. This is not the IP we are looking for. Move along.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

"Honest people don't support piracy." How'd ya figure?

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

You know, I've written to EA (and now these dudes) thanking them for treating me like a criminal, despite having a clean record. I've never pirated anything in my life. But it sure makes me want to. Either way, if everyone writes these guys... would it do anything? Or would they still treat the masses (the innocent ones, at that) as common thieves?

******************** "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedom

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

 People like you make me lulz as I dl my torrentz.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Heh, well, that comment right there shows exactly how worried they are about the fact that consumers are catching on to their tricks. Fortunately, Jedi Mind-Tricks don't work so well on an entire consumer base.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

 In my opinion, IP content security is driving at breakneck speed down a deadend road. The future of IP control will be with applications like Steam where you don't have a physical copy of your software on you, but its accessible anywhere in the world once you purchase the right to use it. 

 For all of the (technical) problems that Steam may have, I believe the above is its greatest strength.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Well don't forget, Steam games are piratable. Multi-player is a bit of a problem, though it does have its work arounds, but while I like Steam I don't think it is going to be enough for the IP police.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Well that’s half right although Steam likes to be online to much for my tastes what IP control needs to learn is not to restrict the “SP” side of things let people install a limited install of a product and be able to play it without ever going online, the instant you go online you have to jump through a couple of simple hurdles but get more content instantly, the trouble is the industry sees anything with “offline compatibility” as a liability and just refuses to take their head out of their ass and see what profit that can be made vrs the profits they are trying to force. I do not like steam myself as it’s to restrictive and the instant I got the orange box used I downloaded a steamless version I simply refuse to put up with any restrictive DRM regardless of who’s it from.

Once you link a game or install to an online server its over IMO you can not limit a game in such away unless its a MMO but for everything else online only is fail…

 

Well I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

When I buy a game I want it in a box that I can carry with me.  If games go down a road where the consumer has to purchase 'rights' to play games - rights that we have to trust software developers to keep safe for us, I won't be going down that road with them.

When I buy something, I should get to keep it and resell it if I want to.  Anything less is a rental, and rentals are for chumps.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

 Unscrew your harddisk after installing Steam and downloading your game; you can carry that bad boy whereever you want chief.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Only until my hard drive dies.  With a game disc, as long as I keep it unscratched I can carry that thing forever.  Even if I do scratch it, I should be able to fix it.  I just don't see why I should have any limits on my purchases and I'm not going to trust game companies who trust me so little that they force me to install annoying (even Steam is annoying) anti-piracy measures that I don't want.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

"Only until my hard drive dies."

At which point, since you're using Steam, you log in and download it again once you buy a new hard drive. In fact, you can install your games on a billion hard drives. You just can't be logged in to your account in more than one location at once.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

 Which is why I <3 Steam.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

I'm not a blogger, nor am I posting on behalf of a media outlet.  I'm just a consumer and I'm on the consumer side of a war that was started by software companies who want me to rent products that I ought to be able to buy.  I've never once pirated a game yet I'm called a pirate by these DRM advocates.  Why is it that the folks who are on the attack always insist they aren't engaged in warfare?

Personally, I've cut back my game-buying to a virtual standstill (I used to buy two games per month, but now I'm buying about two games per year - and I'm usually careful to make sure that the products I buy are from an honest source like Stardock) because I don't feel I can trust game companies anymore.  As things stand I really don't see why I should give money to folks who are fighting against my interests.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

"...but such a war doesn’t really exist."

Actually, such a war does exist, and you are fighting us. I am one of the ones that would like to play some of the new games, but refuse due to some of the extreme DRM issues. The people you are getting your information from are lying to you. Gamers are some of the most connected people in the world, we all talk to eachother, across many websites, and the outrage is only growing. Online activation is onerous enough, but some of the more draconian practices will need to go, or the games that have them will begin to see less and less sales.

If you are only renting us the game and keep the right to take it away from us at any time, then I expect to pay a lot less for what is essentially, not mine anymore. I shouldn't need to check with you every time I want to play my game again. In addition, selling partial games, then making people pay to unlock stuff that already exists on the disc and that they already purchased with the disc should be illegal. Most EULA terms should be illegal.

You and your kind have been running roughshod over your consumers for too long. Shortly, more and more of the population will be people who grew up gaming, and your lobbying will not be able to keep these ugly truths under wraps any longer.

The gamers will rise, and we wil take over this country the way that the founding fathers intended, and there isn't anything you can do to stop us.

We WILL be elected.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Never mind the new ones, what about the old ones?

I have games that run on 98, but not on XP. Crack them and they work on XP. There's nothing inherent about the game itself that's stopping it from running on XP, it's perfectly compatible.

I don't see this trend stopping with the protection worming further and further into the OS.

 

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

"Most EULA terms should be illegal."

Actually, I think technically a lot of EULA terms are already illegal, we've just yet to see them challenged in court on a large enough scale to cause changes in the way they're worded and set up. If the company can bully you into complying with their terms by forcing you to agree to an unenforceable TOU, why should they bother making an enforceable one?

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

The EULA is BS.

for a start, in the UK if i buy a pc game, i cant return it after its opened.

Im only made aware of the  EULA at the install screen. So at that point, I cant return the game.

In uk contract law, you have to present terms to the consumer BEFORE they agree to purchase said item, else those terms do not form part of the contract.

 

 

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

So when's Jack gonna be here praising these people for "seeing the light" and other random BS?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

-----------------------------



"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Honestly I don't think I've ever seen Jack comment on stories involving copyright, piracy, or IP protection.

----------------------------------------------------

"What for you bury me in the cold cold ground?" - Tasmanian devil

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model


Yeah, I would be surprised if he did.  It has nothing to do with game violence or how it makes people do bad things and so on.

---
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How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

True.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

-----------------------------



"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

So if I try to have a rational discussion with him he will shoot me in the face and make me apologize? Then make me pay a fee for allegedly ripping off someone else's apology?

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Least hes not drinkign what Rush is... "Commie fassict leftiest koocks".... nd on this side of the koolaid kiddies we ahve the pot calling the kettle "forcefull".........

 

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Can someone give me this guys email address?

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Uh, yah, me too please. I'd kind of like to send him my comment and see what the response is... if any. Chances are, now that I think about it, there won't be a response, he likely doesn't give a shit.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model


Nevermind, anyone can find it easily....

http://www.copyrightalliance.org/

Go to about us, then Our Staff, be as civil as possible though.  We want to fight this thing, not make them thing we are insane.

---
Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

The irony is that honest consumers like myself are now being tempted to turn to piracy to avoid these issues. I'd rather deal with the crap that comes with a pirated game than DRM because, at the very least, I know the bugs that I might get from those illegal games are bugs that I can handle and deal with.

Why should I bother? If the industry that builds the games that are my life-long passion is going to treat me like a thieving criminal and mess with my system and if there's going to be two sets of rules then why shouldn't I just go ahead and grab some pirated games?

It's not like they're going to go after me, the single, lone user who grabs the odd game, especially if I'm destroying the copy when I'm finished with it and not stock-piling them. Not only will I get to play the game, but I don't have to worry about EA or Activision or Atari or whoever putting what basically amounts to a trojan on sector zero of my HDD (an act, by the way, that is ILLEGAL for anyone else... but somehow when couched in terms of IP protection is perfectly allowable for big, multi-billion dollar, multi-national corporations).

And given that I'm perfectly willing to pay for the games that I want, when I want them... instead of paying the company that made them, I'll just download them pirated and donate the money to charity.

This seems like a really easy choice for me...

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

While primarily speaking about audio files, I think this xkcd comic pretty much hits the nail on the head and echoes those statements in sentiment.

http://xkcd.com/488/

 

"The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom."

"The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom."

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

As sad as it is I have to agree with this ... if you treat your consumer as the thief then why should they keep raging aginst your expectations instead they should take the mantle you have thrusted upon them and become the villian you so desire. (the you here of course being the DRM loving companies such as EA).

I have given up a lot of good games that I would have loved to show my support for by purchasing whose DRM alone made me go screw it never mind (Spore, DeadSpace, Mass Effect, and BioShock)

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

IF qauilty was not being droped to buy more DRM I might would still be putting up with modern gaming alot more than I am now...

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model


Copyright is an antiquated term past its prime you can no longer bully the populace over what they “hear” or what they “say” the only thing you can do is limit illicit profit by going after real criminals and sell cheaper at higher volumes to the world as a whole region to do anything more than these 2 things is to prove your incompetence, welcome to the 22th century!

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model


Aw, thank you.  I am happy to be in the 22nd century.  Here, let me bend over and pull down my pants, now tell him to do his thing.  You know, I am not gay, but since the corporate world said that taking it up the ass nice and hard was what was right for the consumer...  I figured I should do what is right.  My friend Mr. Slave loves this type of stuff.  I think he does it daily by these corporate guys even.  Ow baby... ouch... whoa...  Oh my God no more...  No make it stop!  God please...  Oh no, no, no, nooooooooooooooooooooooooo....

---
Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

If you want Tactics you can also get a hard copy compilation at gogamer.com.

Hasen't been optimized though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hookers and Ice Cream aren't free. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5137-...

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

 Thats not right! Nobody should be molested by a donkey!

 Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Another day, another jackass. 

 

Insanity has its toll. Please have exact change.

PMBD http://paysites.mustbedestroyed.org/ The truth about T$R http://tsr.mustbedestroyed.org/ EA + T$R = We're all screwed

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Only the sith deal in absolutes.

I think it is messed up how far companies are going with their malicious protection software that sometimes the consumer is not even aware of. I haven't played a PC game in years, and frankly I am glad because I for one don't want to spend a weekend fragging my harddrive and reinstalling everything just to get my computer to work properly again.

 

"I don't know many things but I know if you press up up down down left right left right a b start you get infinite lives in contra"

"I don't know many things but I know if you press up up down down left right left right a b start you get infinite lives in contra"

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

About your sig...didn't that code give you 30 lives?

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Yeah, it's the Konami Code.

Worked on a lot of other Konami games of the day, too.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Got close. It was B A start, unless your talking Gyrus with was D,D,U,U,R,L,R,L,A,B,START. Ahh yes the Konami Code. Even mentioned in MGS3. You have to love a company that remember's it's past, and some of it's newer Contra games still use it for extra continues.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model


I think the funny thing is that these guys are doing all of this crap to drop resale of games at places like EB and GameStop, but I can't find a God damn copy of Fallout or Fallout 2 anywhere, as well as other games.  So I have to blame the developers for fucking themselves over on their long term profit, because they could be making a shit load more.

---
Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

www.gog.com

Fallout 1 and 2 for a couple bucks each, sans any DRM and they're XP/Vista ready.

Enjoy.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Such a great site and good deal.  Got both Fallouts since I'd never played them before.  Both are amazing.

They're also slowly gathering more steam, getting more and more companies signed on.  I really like the fact that they go through the trouble of optimizing each game to work on XP/Vista, taking out all the hassle and headache of having to figure it out yourself.  Only had to just download, install, and Robert's your father's brother.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model


Vista ready... thank god... thank you

---
Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

fallout and fallout 2 are both on gametap

 

 

 

Trust is the sound of death.

Trust is the sound of death.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Gametap supports just about zero on 64bit vista. I'm done with them.

They also don't advertise this on their sign up screen so you've already paid your subscription fee and cursed out their tech support before they bother to tell you about their own technical limitations. This, in my opinion, is not okay. I will not be giving them any more of my money... despite their amazing collection of sierra and infocom games *sniff*

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

That sucks. Gametap = love for me. With my short attention span, and that number of games... Yum.

 

 

 

 

Trust is the sound of death.

Trust is the sound of death.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

Copy protection, publish then patch, and the upgrade treadmill are why I gave up PC gaming going on 8 years now.

Systems are getting powerful enough that I can run some of my old games in emulation, without touching the real box (emulation, not virtualization, my only curent computers are PPC ), I'll probably be getting around to finishing them finally.

Re: Copyright Lobby Group Adopts Dick Cheney Dialogue Model

You couldn't have said it better.  I have not bought a PC game in about 10 years. 

I also avoid anything with an EA on it.

I do miss proper flight sims though

 
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MechaTama31AE: Probably snarky commentary on this: http://www.gamepolitics.com/2014/08/29/principle-player-leland-yee-arms-trading-case-dies08/30/2014 - 8:43pm
Andrew EisenConster - Don't know. Got a link to whatever you're referring to?08/30/2014 - 7:04pm
ConsterWait, what's this about Leland Yee eliminating witnesses?08/30/2014 - 5:50pm
IanCBroke my EA boycott to pick up Plants vs Zombies Garden Warfare. Loving it. Still hate EA though. But i like Popcap. Gah.08/30/2014 - 6:01am
MaskedPixelantehttp://m.tickld.com/x/something-you-never-realized-about-guardians-of-the-galaxy Right in the feels.08/29/2014 - 6:56pm
AvalongodAgain I think we're conflating the issue of whether Sarkeesian's claims are beyond critique (no they're not) and whether its ever appropriate to use sexist language, let alone physical threats on a woman to intimidate her (no it isn't)08/29/2014 - 5:04pm
prh99Trolling her or trying to assail her integrity just draws more attention (Streisand effect?). Which is really not what the trolls want, so the only way to win (if there is a win to be had) is not to play/troll.08/29/2014 - 5:02pm
prh99Who cares, just don't watch the damn videos if you don't like her. Personally, I don't care as far as she is concerned as long there are interesting games to be played.08/29/2014 - 4:34pm
Andrew EisenZip - And yet, you can't cite a single, solitary example. (And no one said you hated anyone. Along those lines, no one claimed Sarkeesian was perfect either.)08/29/2014 - 3:51pm
Andrew EisenSaint's Row: Gat Out of Hell was just announced for PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360 and Xbox One making it the 150th game For Everything But Wii U! Congratulations Deep Silver!08/29/2014 - 3:49pm
ZippyDSMleeI do not hate them jsut think its mostly hyperlobe.08/29/2014 - 3:40pm
Andrew EisenSleaker - I'd say that's likely. From my experience, most who have a problem with Sarkeesian's videos either want to hate them in the first place (for whatever reason) or honestly misunderstand what they're about and what they're saying.08/29/2014 - 3:16pm
james_fudgeWe appreciate your support :)08/29/2014 - 2:55pm
TechnogeekIt gives me hope that maybe, just maybe, the gaming community is not statistically indistinguishable from consisting entirely of people that your average Xbox Live caricature would look at and go "maybe you should tone it down a little bit".08/29/2014 - 2:49pm
TechnogeekI just want to say that while I've disagreed with the staff of this site on several occasions, it's still good to see that they're not automatically dismissing Anita's videos as a "misandrist scam" or whatever the preferred dismissive term is these days.08/29/2014 - 2:49pm
E. Zachary KnightZippy, So you can't find even one?08/29/2014 - 1:04pm
ZippyDSMleeAndrew Eisen:Right because shes prefect and never exaggerates... *rolls eyes*08/29/2014 - 12:53pm
SleakerAnd honestly, nearly all of the games she references, or images she depicts I've always cringed at and wondered why they were included in games to begin with, from pinups through explicit sexual depictions or direct abuse. I think it's cheap storytelling.08/29/2014 - 12:35pm
Sleaker@AE - aren't most people fundamentally misunderstanding her at this point? haha.. On a related note I think a lot of the backlash is coming from males that think she is telling them their 'Generic Male Fantasy' is bad and wrong.08/29/2014 - 12:33pm
Andrew EisenAnd no, I don't think the female community would be upset over the performance of a case study in and of itself. Possibly the mostivations behind such a study, the methodology or conclusions but not the mere idea of a case study.08/29/2014 - 12:29pm
 

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