And the used game trade debate rages on...
As reported by gamesindustry.biz, Phil Harrison (left), speaking at a London event yesterday, took a moderate approach to the argument over used game trading. Of the issue, the Atari president remarked:
There's no doubt that second hand games sales has a macro-economic impact on the industry and a lot of people get miserable about it.
But it's no coincidence that the most valuable games, the ones that have the most lifetime as a game experience, are the ones that don't get resold, that don't get traded.
The games that have the embedded community, the embedded commerce, the extended, expandable experiences, are the one's that you would never want to trade, the one's you want to keep hold of. And that's perfectly in line with our future strategy so we're not that concerned about it.
Atari CEO David Gardner made similar remarks at the gathering:
Second hand game sales represent consumer choice and desire. Obviously, it has economically been extremely painful for the industry... the publishers don't benefit.
But as games change and they become more and more network centric, the disc in the box becomes only one part of the experience. As that experience grows then it becomes not such a problem.
GP: Although the used game issue brings out the militant consumer advocate in me, I must give these guys a little credit for moderating their comments (unlike Epic's whiny Michael Capps). Both Gardner and Harrison seem to be saying that digital distribution is the wave of the future, so let's not get too frothed up about used game sales now. And they're probably right.
Still, I've ginned up enough working-class frustration while writing this to be annoyed by Gardner's complaint that "the publishers don't benefit" [from used game trades].
Why is that a problem?
Gardner's comment is typical of the greedy mindset of some game publishers, who already got paid when they sold the game to the retailer. The retailer then made its money when the consumer purchased the game. And when the consumer disposes of the game, the publisher wants another bite of the apple? What is this, the Mafia? Everyone in the food chain has to kick back up to the Don?
Fughetaboudit...
Comments
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Actually they place orders and divide the games thru the stores by demand, not by greed. If a particular area shows more interest either in a type of game, or has large pre-orders for a game, they tend to send more. Gamestop is one of the LARGEST buyers of games directly from developers and publishers...you know...where they get paid for there games. How would Gamestop, or any other store that is a specialty store like a music shop, toy store, etc, be able to afford buying a large amount of every game, just to lose money on unsold copies, or eventual price cuts to make room for more games/items?
Zen aka Jeremy Powers
Editor and Host of the Zenspath Podcast (now on iTunes)
www.ZensPath.com
XBL: "PsychoticZen" PSN: "Zenspath"
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Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Eliminate them as buyers of new games and people who actually buy new copies will shop somewhere else. You act like the sales would never happen if GS didn't exist. there ARE other stores.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
I've worked in Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, and currently as a part time manager for a Gamestop (aside from my "real" job working for a Naval contractor) and all 3 of them placed orders for items in the same manner. One of my friends works security for Best Buy, and my old roommate worked at Circuit City...both of them did it too. It's called the law of "Supply and Demand". Wanna know why freezers don't sell well in the arctic? They aren't needed. Wanna know why ketchup flavored chips don't sell well outside of China? They aren't demanded here. We range from getting HUGE amounts of stuff like Gears and WoW because they are in high demand with a large amount of people, down to some of the small Atlus (or other small developer) games that we only get a few copies of, and those are usually bought by employees (they pre-ordered them so that's why we even got that little bit in) that collect the games and may not even open them. Just like how different parts of a single state can differ with food, clothes, cars, etc...different areas will differ with games. It's not my fault if you live in an area that is mostly FSU fans so you have a hard time getting an Auburn shirt. If they won't sell there...they won't ship there. They will just test the waters with a small release first at most.
Zen aka Jeremy Powers
Panama City, Fl.
Zen@Zenspath.com
Zen aka Jeremy Powers
Editor and Host of the Zenspath Podcast (now on iTunes)
www.ZensPath.com
XBL: "PsychoticZen" PSN: "Zenspath"
Nintendo Network: "Psychoticzen", 3DS: "0860-3238-7260
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
But with less stores competing for sales, individual stores would need to carry more stock to meet the demand of the area. Or does demand just disappear because GS isn't in the area?
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Demand will stay the same, but supply will go down. Best Buy, Wal-Mart, and other stores won't just up and purchase more games just like that. Our Circuit City near here is being closed, but neither Gamestop, Best Buy, or Wal-Mart are inclreasing their supplies for games, or anything electronic. They are waiting to see if demand goes up, THEN they see about increasing it. But with less options in any given area (think EA here with the NFL, Nascar, and other sports) they get to set what mark ups or other factors weigh in on a purchase now. Less competition means that they can do less but people are forced to purchase from them. Not everyone has internet access or the ability to have a credit card. Some people have to go to a store.
Zen aka Jeremy Powers
Editor and Host of the Zenspath Podcast (now on iTunes)
www.ZensPath.com
XBL: "PsychoticZen" PSN: "Zenspath"
Nintendo Network: "Psychoticzen", 3DS: "0860-3238-7260
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
2nd hand media is a pillaer of indutry so much encricls it you take it away it leaves a vacume effect in play the resulting damage would close more devs than would give profit to.
One can not focus soley on one aspect of precived losses and think its the reason for all losses no publisher mismanigamnt and how the market works are the 2 core reasons for perceived loss, used games make and downlaoding make up such a small scale between them you cannot factor in any tangible damage, the sell of bootlegs however dose have a tangible ripple effect as it takes money off the streets. Downlaoding/sharing dilutes profits, the used game market has so many good effects that come with it any diluting effects are rendered null.
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Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
questionmark1987
And compeltely miss the point....they pay a price for the discount scratches,broken manuals cases,ect. You gloss over the benefit as when the people that sale the games in part buy new thus stimulateing the industry ,those that buy mainly used titles will buy new once every now and then thus stimulateing the industry you are throwing the baby out with the bath water, used game sales push new games sales as well as hardware and peripherals its all connected.
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Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
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Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
I'll give you the hardware and peripherals, but you are seriously insane if you think buying new 1 out of 10 times evens out.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
You're glossing over the profit made for the precived loss.... you can not get blood from a stone, IE you can not sell a game to a person that dose not want to spend that much money on it thus why used games are favored and from it comes some new game sales were there would be none.
Besides have you looked at the price of a new used title its 1-7$ off and thats generally not enough to really effect a new purchase unless you eat,sleep breath games and even then you support the retailer thats buying in volume from the industry there is no profit loss from used sales here they grease the gears of the industry as a whole take away half of all sales no remove EB/GS altogether, then remove all other outlets that deal in used games you have heavily damaged the industry as huge retailers no longer by games in volume thus profits are down, sure on a 1 to 1 basis you are making more money but you've damaged your market.
=================================
Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
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Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
I don't want blood from the stone. I also don't want the stone playing. Once again as I said before, playing games is a luxury, if you don't or can't pay the people that make them, you shouldn't get to play.
If you remove EB and GS, people would buy from major retailors like Walmart and Best Buy. Would overall game sales (IE including both second and first hand sales) go down, yes. Would first hand sales and profits to the developer and publisher increase, arguably yes.
Let's assume 50% of sales are used. Let's say that of that 50%, 10% could afford buying new but just choose not to.
Eliminate second hand sales and yes 45% of the people playing games won't get to, but 5% will be buying new and paying the devs for it.
Honestly I don't buy in to the whole games for everyone thing. I see it as a luxury. I spend my money on it because I like it more then other luxuries. I would be happier seeing less people games and seeing the industry thrive then seeing everyone playing but the industry barely making it.
Used game sales don't support the industry at all. They generate news stories maybe because you get a lot broader range of people playing, but overall the only part of the industry that benefits from them is EB and GS.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
But..thats not how it works what you will do is slow sales and create a monopolistic system that actively sends gamers to other hobbies because they can get anyway with anything, you refuse to see the immense collateral damage you will do to multiple markets by making games a special media that can not be resold...you also are breaking the constitution and setting a president that all media should be taxed as so the content owner may gain a higher profit..for merely making something....its lunacy.
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Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
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Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
So people who can't afford to pay for new copies will have to find another hobby. I can live with that. People who can afford new copies will continue to game. I can live with that. As far as all media being taxed so the content owner can profit... you have heard of copyright and patent law right?
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Ah yes, let's bring copyright law into this.
Doctrine of First Sale is one of the compromises given for copyright. Get rid of that, get rid of copyright. Fair enough?
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Once again go study. Games never cross first sale because there is never a sale, there is a license.
This has been upheld several times on software because of softwares unique attributes. It's also upheld on movies and music, which is why the music industry is able to go after things like Napster.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
That is true for everything copyrighted. Doctrine of First Sale still applies.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
No it's not. When you buy a copy of a book you actually own a copy.
When you buy a piece of software you don't own the copy. You own a disc and a license. The code on the disc is still owned by the company that made it. Really, go look it up, or I will for you.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
For the sake of the argument one can not change Programs without changing media you just can not do it because the way the foundation is laid they are inextricably linked. I ask you put your fuver to changing the CP/IP system for the betterment of all content creators thats the key to allowing the belittled and battered content creator to gain ground on not merely making one aspect of all media screacant and allowing the donimos to fall...
=================================
Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
As I said earlier, I support all media being non resellable. movies, music, books, games, everything.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
But for now you have to deal with the law as its interped now and frist sale is a right consumers cherish, as it is there right they still have unlike the right to return crap media the publishers stole from us.
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So people who can't afford to pay for new copies will have to find another hobby. I can live with that. People who can afford new copies will continue to game. I can live with that. As far as all media being taxed so the content owner can profit... you have heard of copyright and patent law right?
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I have been known for outrageous comments but that takes the cake, I will say ti again all you will do is take consumers from the market,thin the market it, create larger conglomerates that treat devs worse and destroy gaming completely.
=================================
Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Consumers who don't buy new, don't support the market. They are ghost sales. You mgiht as well remove them from the numbers now for all the effect they have on the devleopers and publishers. The only people they are supporting is GS and EB.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Well ain't that just hard shit? Things you buy from ANYTHING are ghost sales when sold on be it beds, cars, cds, games, laptops, tvs, houses, bikes, cuddly toys, hairspray, boots... EVERYTHING. That's because in consumer culture you OWN the things you buy. If you didn't then the whole system of ownership falls down and noone buys ANYTHING and you (and I) are out of a job. I mean come on, THINK ffs.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Again you miss the point they support the industry as a whole by supporting a retailer that buys in large volume from the publishers remove that shrink the industry inflate prices kill off devs create larger publishers who pay less...its a spiraling effect.
I can say downlaoidng merely mirrors the popularity of media and furthers the sale of media in a dailutied rate (because those who can buy do buy) no matter how logical and sound it may look its also a fact that downloading dose take away more potential sales than it can stimulate the same goes for used games and the market that flushishes because of it.
=================================
Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Sigh, yes there would be a sales hiccup while the other major retailers adjusted thier buying, but that's it. People wouldn't stop playing games because GS closed, they would simply find another place to buy, since most other places don't sell NEARLY the same amount of used copies, new sales would become the new major buy.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
You are still licensing the content of the book, *EXACTLY* like you're licensing the content of the disk. The contents of the book are still owned by the publisher.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Yes but the law looks at the two a bit differently. The book is considered a physical item, software is not. They've said you own the disk not the content.
Also as I said, i support the same thing for all media types, books included.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Wrong. Doctrine of First Sale has been upheld for software. (Vernor v. Autodesk)
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Sigh here we go.
Davidson & Associates v. Internet Gateway Inc (2004) <-Not a good link, just search for it.
The Court agrees that the contractual restriction does create a right not existing under copyright law.
The right created is the right to restrict the use of the software through the EULAs and TOU. “Absent
the parties' agreement, this restriction would not exist. The contractual restriction on use of the
programs constitutes an extra element that makes this cause of action qualitatively different from one
for copyright.”
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Whatever it is you are quoting, I guarentee you it doesn't apply outside of your country. There is no way in hell a company could sell software and retain ownership of it in the UK. It would be like a Beatles record being sold for thousands and then Paul McCartney trying to get the money for it. It just doesn't happen.
I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land personally.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Vernor is 2008, it supercedes Davidson
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
You are awesome.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Current copyright law is one of my pet peeves. I try to keep up on it.
Been singing "Happy Birthday" at any parties recently? Hope you paid the royalties.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
lol a sudden lack of 'i know everything and you dont' comebacks.
Nice find sql! (even i wasnt sure what the facts were!)
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
You still have not justified why publishers or developers deserve money on resales when no other industry does. Do you take in hungry orphan children or something? C'mon anything.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Instead why don't you tell me why they don't deserve money on every sale of what they created? Do you regularly give out free copies of your work?
Are games art? If it was a piece of art and some store sold a copy wihtout giving a kickback to the artist, well I don't need to explain this right?
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
questionmark1987
You are pro dev, I am pro content creator not content owner a content owner just has the profit rights to sell the content,a content creator should get 10% of all profits for life and have more influence as to where their "creation" may goIE have sanctions/fines aginst the content owner for pablumtizing the work to gain profit.
I'll leave it at that but yuo get the point, what you want to do is fed the content owner and hope the dev gets scrapes IMO you are missing the big picture of the flawed CP/IP system.
=================================
Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Wha?
When I say Dev I mean the guy who MADE the content. IE the modelers, texture artists, game designer. I don't mean the publisher. I think we're arguing... the same thing?
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Not quite because you want to rise games above all rules,laws and reason, the publisher spends alot of money to advertise,press and push the game tey amke the most profit because they have the most to lose this is true will forms of media, you can not simply makes games un resaleable as it only gives more profit to the publishers and owners that rape both consumers and content creators, you have to look to CP/IP laws and see thats what must be changed.
You create a game a comic or a book you and thos who worked on it are entield to 10% of all profit for your/thier life,when one member dies nothing changes when all die the clock starts ticking on public domain rights after say another 25 years it becomes public domain and anyone can try and make a profit off it, this would grease indutry and force it to make better things but alas the way things are we get regurgitation,repacking and eternal brands boxed by souless conglomerates IE stagnation of thought and the art of media in its entirety.
Its good to be pro dev but me thinks you are slightly misplaced in your vigor.
=================================
Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Games are already covered and influenced by copyright. But honestly not many sales of a game happen after it hits the 25 year mark. In fact we're just starting to SEE games hit this. The effect fo it will be interesting but it hasn't played out yet.
I'm arguing I believe exactly what you're saying. The people that make games deserve to make a profit off all money made on those games for a set amount of time.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
I'm amazed to see new sales of a game after 6~9 months down the line, why even mention 25 years? The only new titles I see like that are the best hits which come at reduced prices nearly a year later.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Not quite as I do not want directly change cost or influence on the market I want the CP/IP system to force CP/IP owners to share the wealth with CP/IP creators by not creating a insane tax system by not creating president that would not only destroy 2nd hand but give media publishers/CP/IP owners the ability to price gouse,cut off support and in genreal screw with the costumers 10X more than they do now.
Now will prices go up because they have to give up 10% of profits yes but it would be a minuscule change in price, we are arguing from the same coin but from different sides. You can protect the consumer and the content creator at the same time.
==============================
Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
I wouldn't have a problem with devs getting a cut of resales either. Either way would satisfy me and people like me, but the current situation I feel is wrong.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
The problem is you cannot give them that without giving them all that without creating obscured and draconian regulations, you can however wean it out of popular culture over a decade or 2 and by wean I mean go all digital.
=================================
Pirates,Shearers,Lenders and downloaders are not a market that can be taped by the mainstream.
---------------------------------
I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
ok ill tell you why they dont deserve it.
because it woudl be unfair to EVERY OTHER TYPE OF INDUSTRY, if they recieved unique benefits others did not, for absolutely no good reason.
and im sorry.. what? 'giving out free copies'? uhh.. did you miss the part where the person gave them money for that 'free copy'. not so 'free' any more.
and your art example.. again missing the point.
Yes the artist receives money when the painting (for example) is initially sold. Does the artist receive money again when that private individual (who now owns the painting) sells it to another collecter... NO.
So in fact artists are yet ANOTHER example of how it would be unfair to give the games industry unique privilages , since an artist does NOT get them.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
No one gave them money for the second sale, that's a free copy as far as the dev is concerned. Yes they amde money back for punching the disc out of plastic, big friggin whoop. That doesn't account for the time they spent working on models, art, programming and basic gameplay so you could enjoy it.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
Big Friggin Whoop right back at yah, does that somehow count differently for the engineers at ford who spent time making mockups, and design concepts, testing so you could enjoy their vehicle?
does that somehow count differnently for the engineers at Sony who spent time making mockups, and design concepts, and testing and develiping electronics so you could enjoy their TV?
does that somehow count differnently for the engineers at Microsoft who spent time making mockups, and design concepts, and testing and development so you could enjoy their Console?
want me to stop here? as i stated.. show me why games deserve special treatment.
here is the sale model
developer contracted by publisher to make a product. Publisher pays developer for wages and funding.
Publisher SELLS a number of copies to a retailer. Retailer pays for them.
Customer pays retailer for copy of said game.
Second hand customer pays first customer for original game.
the developer only agreed to fulfill a contract with the publisher. So what that customer A sells to Customer B, that has NOTHING to do with the developers contract. You cant start making up contractual obligations that dont exist. Devs dont HAVE to agree to a publishers terms. They can demand better pay / royalties etc.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
When did I say I didn't want this for other industries as well? I think it's BS anything gets sold or resold without something going to the people who made it. Lower the price for a resale fine, that doesn't bother me, it's been used it's not new. But give some credit to the people who made the friggin thing in the first place.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
You're an idiot.
When I bought a condo in Deer Valley, Utah, I didn't pay the company that made it again. I bought it from a previous owner who needed the money.
When I bought a used M1 Garand, I didn't pay Springfield again. When I bought an old, old Enfield mk4, I didn't pay enfield again.
When someone buys a used car, they don't pay the car company again (unless, of course, you're buying it from the same dealer/company that sold it in the first place, but that's beside the point).
When I buy artwork that's already been sold once, I don't go to the artist and pay him again.
Games are no different. Once YOU buy it, its YOURS to do what you wish with it (within the confines of the law, of course), even if you find that the game was garbage and sell it back to gamestop for 5 dollars store credit.
Once again, you're an idiot. Just pointing that out for you.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
lol youve missed out a few there Austin
''When I bought a condo in Deer Valley, Utah, I didn't pay the company that made it again. I bought it from a previous owner who needed the money.''
dont forget, you didnt pay the builders who built the house for the original owner
And you didnt pay the people who manufactured the wood for the builders to use.
And you didnt pay the company who delivered the wood to the manufacturer.
And you didnt pay the loggers who chopped the trees to get teh wood to give to the delivery guys.
And you didnt pay the foresters who grew the trees to produce high quality wood for building.
And you didnt pay the land owner who rented the land to the foresters.
And you didnt pay the original guy the land owner bought the land off.
And you didnt pay the guys who knocked down the old house on the land that used to be there before it was cleared
And you didnt pay the builders who built the house that was knocked down.
And you didnt pay the people who manufactured the wood for the builders to use.....
And you didnt pay the company who delivered the wood to the manufacturer............
lol loop that around about 30 times.
and then rinse and repeat for the other examples too lol.
Dont want to miss anyone out and upset people lol.
lol the funny thing is if you aply this to everything, then every time devs make a FIRST HAND sale, they will owe so much to all the people whose software / compilers / debuggers / equipment that they used to make the game, and to the companies whose physical materials they used, itl make business completely pointless.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
My God, so I didn't.
Excuse me. I have apologies to tender. Those poor, poor people that cut the fine fine wood in my fine fine condo.
Re: Atari's Phil Harrison Weighs in on Used Game Trade Debate
lol wait till the hippys get in on this.
you'll have to pay reparations to a 'mother earth fund' since technically she grew the trees. lol