Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

December 31, 2008

It's Game Over for 2008, a year full of fun, excitement and more than a bit of controversy for the video game community.

A couple of weeks back we looked at the Top 15 Stories of 2008. Today GamePolitics presents the most politically fascinating people of the year:

15. Politicians Who Play - The mayor of Muskogee, Oklahoma is a gamer. So is the mayor of the Anzin Saint-Aubin in France. Both were elected in 2008, a year which saw more gamers hold political office than ever before. Hard to believe? Check out our coverage of gamer-politicos.

14. Sarah Palin - While she's not a politican who plays video games, game designers can't seem to resist the controversial Governor of Alaska. During her failed vice-presidential bid Palin was the subject of so many online games that we actually lost count. Big-time game publishers cashed in on Palin-mania as well. A Palin character was featured (along with Barack Obama) as DLC for Mercenaries 2. Maxis created a Palin creature for Spore and featured the world's best-known hockey mom dancing in a bikini in a trailer for The Sims 3. And, even with the election in the rear-view mirror, Palin's hunting habit was lampooned this week by PETA. Personally, I even got into bit of a tiff with David Jaffe over Palin. In retrospect, I think I was too rough on the God of War designer.

13. Brad Wardell - While the big-time publishers continue to alienate their loyal PC customers with intrusive DRM schemes, delayed release dates and silly threats to abandon the platform altogether, Brad Wardell, CEO of boutique publisher Stardock (Sins of a Solar Empire) is one guy who is actually thinking about ways to provide PC gamers with a better experience. The Gamer's Bill of Rights that he and Gas Powered Games CEO Chris Taylor released at PAX 08 was a bold, if preliminary, step in the right direction. We also love what Randy Stude and the members of the PC Gaming Alliance are doing to keep computer gaming alive.

12. Wafaa Bilal - In an effort to show his belief that American foreign policy actually encourages terrorist recruitment, Iraqi-born artist Wafaa Bilal's controversial Virtual Jihadi game puts the player in control of a reluctant suicide bomber who must target President Bush. The game was at the center of a free speech controversy when Rensselaer Polytechnical Institute in upstate New York invited him to display Virtual Jihadi but abruptly un-invited him when campus Republicans protested. Bilal (left), a naturalized American citizen, then set up shop in a small, off-campus art gallery, but Republican city officials closed the place down, dubiously citing building code violations. The New York Civil Liberties Union is suing the city.

11. Hal Halpin - Yes, some will criticize Hal's selection since the Entertainment Consumers Association, which he heads, is the parent company of GamePolitics. But the ECA represents the first organized movement to protect and nurture the interests of the gaming public, so it's impossible to ignore. What Hal started in late 2006 really gained momentum in 2008. This year the ECA lobbied on behalf of game consumers and took positions on important issues like Net Neutrality, EULAs, Universal Broadband and game censorship.

10. Cooper Lawrence - The author of fluffy books about dating and celebrities clearly had no idea what she was stepping into when she smeared RPG hit Mass Effect during a Fox News-orchestrated video game beatdown in January. Thankfully, Spike TV's Geoff Keighley was on hand to provide some rational counterpoint. Lawrence's ridiculous comments about the best-selling Xbox 360 title were widely reported in the gaming press. Outraged gamers took guerilla revenge by flocking to Amazon.com where they trashed listings for Lawrence's books with one-star reviews. In the end it turned out that Lawrence was completely unacquainted with Mass Effect and relied instead on a lurid Fox News briefing, a fact which she later admitted to the New York Times. Whether or not one approves of the tactics employed against Lawrence, the episode provided an object lesson for the mainstream media: Gamers will not sit idly by while they and their hobby are slandered. (more after the jump)

 

9.) Gamers have grown accustomed to hearing gloomy news about video games from academic types. But Drs. Cheryl Olson & Lawrence Kutner, a pair of Harvard researchers, gave cheer to the gaming community with the April release of Grand Theft Childhood. Their well-received book wasn't all good news to be sure, but the primary message was reassuring for parents: Although adolescents will often manage to get their hands on violent games like GTA, they are able to distinguish between the game world and real life.

8.) Hypocritical Politicians - When it came to video games, 2008 was a peak year for political hypocrisy. New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer railed about the virtual hookers in GTA and tried to pass a game content law, but in the end was himself busted for dallying with flesh-and-blood call girls... Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius tried to pass a game law in 2006 but she stood behind her son this year when the art student was found to be making and marketing a board game knockoff of GTA - from the Governor's Mansion... California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (seen in-game at left) made a fortune from appearing in violent movies as well as games based on those films. But he threw good tax dollars after bad, appealing a federal court ruling which held that the state's video game law is unconstitutional... Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich was so incensed about the virtual crime in GTA that he got a video game law passed in 2005, only to see it, too fail in court. The Guv, of course, is now under federal indictment for some very ugly real-world crimes. During his abortive presidential bid, Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said he would address the cartoon violence of video games but couldn't bring himself to condemn the real-world practice of torturing prisoners.

7.) Brandon Crisp - The tragic circumstances surrounding the disappearance and death of Canadian teen Brandon Crisp riveted the attention of the gaming community during October and November. Readers will recall that 15-year-old Brandon ran away from home following an argument in which his parents confiscated his Xbox 360. For weeks, much of the speculation surrounding Brandon's disappearance focused on the theory that the boy had been kidnapped by a predator he met during marathon online sessions of Call of Duty 4, a game to which his parents claimed he was addicted. In the end, Brandon's body was found in some woods not far from his home. A coroner ruled that he had died from injuries sustained in a fall from a tree, probably not long after leaving home. While the notion of Xbox Live as a haven for predators fell by the wayside, Brandon's case will likely be cited a video game addiction horror story for a long time to come. From here, however, the case seems more like a family argument that took a tragic turn.

6.) Jack Thompson - No list of this nature would be complete without mention of Jack Thompson. Through some highly unprofessional antics, Thompson pushed the self-destruct button on his legal career. In September the Florida Supreme Court upheld a referee's recommendation that Thompson be disbarred for life. We won't go into the particulars here since Thompson has been covered extensively by GamePolitics during the course of the year. If you want to see the details of what got his license yanked, read our exclusive transcripts of his Florida Bar trial. Suffice to say that, despite his disbarment, Thompson will continue to be a vocal critic of the game industry.

5.) Michael Gallagher - The CEO of game publishers trade group the Entertainment Software Association certainly had a tough act to follow. His predecessor, Doug Lowenstein, founded the ESA an led the industry with a deft touch for a dozen years. When Gallagher took over in 2007 he seemed a perfect fit: smart, politically savvy and a gamer to boot. But his reign has been a rocky one, most notable for 2008's horrendous E3 as well as a 25% drop in ESA membership. Can Gallagher get it together in 2009? That remains to be seen.

4.) Niko Bellic - There was only one monster gaming event in 2008, but what an event it was! The April 29th release of Grand Theft Auto IV captivated not only the gaming press, but the mainstream media's consciousness for weeks before and after launch. Every network talking head weighed in on GTA. Every late night comic had a GTA sketch. Every politician seemingly had a GTA whinge. Whether you loved the game or hated it, the GTA IV effect was unprecedented. So, we'll let protagonist Niko Bellic serve as the stand-in for Rockstar Games, for the Houser brothers, for Take-Two Interactive, and for Strauss Zelnick.

3.) Tanya Byron - The TV psychologist became a household name among gamers after the British government engaged her to conduct a study into the effects of video games and the Internet on children. Byron delivered her report in March. Chief among its recommendations were making enhancements to the game rating system and legally enforcing ratings at point-of-sale. Byron's recommendations triggered a bitter turf war between the PEGI rating system favored by the game industry and the British Board of Film Classification, which appears to enjoy political support. A decision on the rating issue is expected early in 2009.

2.) Judge Dava Tunis - When the Florida Bar needed a referee to oversee its prosecution of Jack Thompson, it turned to Dava Tunis. Although it was probably not an assignment that Tunis relished, the veteran criminal court jurist presided over what turned out to be a contentious, nine-day ethics trial in December, 2007 (read our exclusive transcripts). For months after the trial, Tunis became a lightning rod for Thompson's well-known vitriol. She was named by Thompson in a federal lawsuit, insulted, threatened with legal action, had her integrity questioned and was even accused of leaking case documents to GamePolitics. Despite it all, Tunis endured. It was her meticulous report to the Florida Supreme Court which directly led to Thompson's lifetime disbarment.

1.) Barack Obama - The President-Elect had a fascinating, rollercoaster sort of relationship with video games during 2008. Obama admitted that the last game he played was Pong and during speeches he frequently equated games (and watching TV) with academic underachievement. Nor was he especially complimentary about GTA IV when it launched. On the other hand, his campaign made that amazing ad buy (left) on Xbox Live and Obama seems to be supportive of creative industries in general. One thing is for certain: game industry types are fascinated with Obama. As GamePolitics reported, a number of prominent industry figures contributed to the Obama campaign, including Rockstar's Sam Houser and Take-Two's Strauss Zelnick. Obama was featured in a Saints Row 2 trailer, as a playable DLC character in Mercenaries 2 and in a trailer for The Sims 3. So, how will he approach video game issues once he moves into the Oval Office? That remains to be seen.


Comments

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

I can't seem to find the full list... am I just overlooking the link somewhere? 

*gah* I just noticed the shoutbar.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

Dennis is toying with us. He is like a cat and we are the mice.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

 I'm more of a rat: bigger, meaner and quick to jump ship.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

New York sewer rat? the ones that eat cats? Used to have one.

Personally I prefer Ferret, the only creature I know that can stuff catfood into a Tower's air vents and not break the kibble.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

 Ahaha, ferrets are magnificant creatures. Built for fighting and general craziness.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

And in this one's case, tangoing with the cat. (followed by dinner and a sleepover over at the iguana's place)

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

ROFL! I blew coffee all over my keyboard and monitor reading that one.

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"The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

Nico are you serious!!! GP just love GTA. Simply the most fodder, the most stories, the most controversial. Gotta love it!!

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Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

I don't care what Cooper has to say, she was on TV, and should of done proper research on the subject. What she did was very unprofessional to a point that Jack Thompson was more informative.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

As childish as the backlash on amazon was to her book, I quite enjoyed it and considered it poetic justice.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

 How so? She spread lies about something they cared for, they give her a taste of her own medicine. Its poetic, as you said, but not childish. What would have been childish is to sit there and let people lie openly without repercussions.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

Yelling back and giving people a "taste of their own medicine" is rather childish; you are effectively lowering yourself to their level. The mature thing to do would have been to be better than they are and calmly explain that she is wrong and how (possible a mass amount of such letters)... you talk to them, openly challenge and debate them on the topic much like the guy did on the news show; frankly showing her examples of the game, as she saw after the program, alone would have been enough to tell her how foolish she had been... Unlike JT she atleast has enough intelligence to be reasoned with

giving them a taste of their own medicine while it might be effective, is not really a mature way of dealing with things

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

I agree that it was very childish, and it isn't something I would do. But looking at it as a retrospective, it was efficient, and somewhat funny. The bad thing was that it made the gaming community look bad.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

 Well that is often what you do get with childish methods... i mean when you kick, scream and thorw shit around loud enough people are gonna pay attention and a lot will give you what you want just to shut you up... and immature things do tend to be funny... but being being immature never makes you look good

The point all comes down to the fact that there WAS a more mature method to use. We get what we want and also get to show off some level of dignity instead of acting like the children they already think we are. 

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

In some cases, but in this case, she was not open to discussion.  Geoff tried to explain to her what the game was about and she dismissed him and called him sweetheart.  If she had the intelligence to be reasoned with, she clearly did not demonstrate it.  When she was backed into a corner by fact her only way out was to dismiss Geoff.

She got what she deserved.  A spanking of both her reputation and finances.

EDIT: And, sometimes, the best way to scare a bully away is to demonstrate that you ARE willing to stoop to their level to stop them.  Again, not in all cases, but she did come out and apologize after the bookstorming, eh?  Wonder if she would have done that if Geoff tried to have a mature discourse with her, pointing out why she was wrong.  Something tells me....no.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

Cooper Lawrence is one of the reasons people would think why most B.A. Psychology majors are airheads.

GameSnooper

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

What the Cooper Lawrence issue really raised to me was that the ESA is completely unwilling to do anything about the negative public perception over gaming. They were asked to do something and completely brushed it off and said it was not their problem.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

 There is no bad publicity.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

Hence why I won't support either the ESA or, for the same inaction, the ECA.  The ECA could have also quickly and easily jumped in to defend the game, because what she said not only hurt the developers and publishers, but every gamer who talked about and/or bought the game.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

You weren't paying attention:

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/01/28/ecas-hal-halpin-calls-on-fox-news...

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

OK, yes, I did miss that.  My bad, and my appologies.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Fascinating People of 2008

Please don't pull a Time magazine and say the number one is "You" or "American Soldiers" or some Society 2.0 garbage.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

I agree with the you but American Soilders should be given a spot. They out there risking thier lives in (don't get political on me) a pointless war (blame the goverment or whoever is responsible for this mess [this is just my opinion{why am I using these weird paranthesss?}])

PLus they do their share of gaming and we have quite a few stories on soilders and gaming right dennis?

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

I really wouldn't call John Bruce a thorn in the side of the games industry. More like a pebble in their shoe, or dog poo on their shoe. Completely harmless, but extremely annoying.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

More like one of those spots you think its cancer and than surprise its not. Lol.

 

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

nah, more like cow poo, dog poo usually is stinkier and mushier.  So you have to wash it off as soon as possible and do it really well, while cow poo just requires plain water and isn't as big a pain.

wait what am i talking about?

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

I consider JT one of those annoying spots on a car you can't wash off, annoying yes, but you can still drive and you won't really notice it unless you force yourself to notice it.

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Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

LOL. I must say I always enjoy reading your comments! I usually thought politically fascinating as an oxymoron...

Netbook Sticker Refurbished Netbook Netbook Sleeves Netbook Bag

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Jack deserves an award for "Most Spectacular Career Implosion"

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

If I may interject my own entry. Call it entry 0:

The Zach's in John Bruce's life. never before have two Zach's brought out such a fit out of this lawyer. One Zach Fleming did this by simply emailing John Bruce and confusing him into thinking Fleming was the GP Moderator. This caused John Bruce to threaten to sue Zach Fleming and GP. Later Zachary Knight created a Firefox browser extension that counted down to the second the time remaining till John Bruce's official disbarment. This again enraged John Bruce and he once again threatened to sue yet another Zach. Neither of these threat's were followed through with and they will never be followed through with.

Sorry, just had to toot my own horn a bit there.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Goddess, that Firefox thing was great, even my cat was fixated on it when he was in my lap.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

I thought Jack Thompson abandon all his public emails.

Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008
Only a seriously sick or disturbed or mean person would do a countdown to Jack Thompson's disbarment. I gotta hand it to you, EZK. The clock was pure sweetness.
Re: Gaming's 15 Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

I still got the clock and like EZK said, we both faced this bull in eye. Good times. Good times.

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Barack's my boy, but Dava's my girl. My girl. My girl. My girl. I'm talkin' 'bout my girl. My girl!!

She shoulda had the No. 1 spot.

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Hopefully some of these people will be long forgotten when 2009's list rolls around...

300 Episodes and counting: http://www.orangeloungeradio.com/

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Good list but I  wouldn't have Brandon Crisp on it, as tragic as it was it didn't have a gaming connection in the end. Maybe in it's place I would have had 'Law enforcement personnel and parents that shoot their mouth's off about games despite not knowing anything about them' as that covers the same territory.

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Am I the only one who, when compared to the bad new days, misses the good old days of pandralisk?

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Yes.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Considering they're both from the "I'm right and you're retarded" school of thought, I miss him about as much as JT. :P

300 Episodes and counting: http://www.orangeloungeradio.com/

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Well, I sort of miss him in the sense that he provided some entertaining reading.  Then again, I find reality dating shows riveting.

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

If given my druthers between Pan-Man and the current resident troll, I'm voting for Pan-Man. But I, like hayabusa75, do have some admittably weird tastes. No offense taken if others don't have similar tastes.

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

yep, each person has their own preference in trolls!  The bad part is that if a troll does not suit your taste it gets really annoying.

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

One thing to hate about trolls is when you partially agree with trolls but are embarrassed by their stupid behavior, faulty logic, hasty generalizations or dumb arguments they make in the same posts.

Anyway pandralisk tried to drag religion into EVERYTHING, it got annoying and old really fast.

Plus he's from the I'm right, you either disagree with me or you're wrong, no one can convince me otherwise school of thought which I hate no matter which side it comes from.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

I couldn't help but laugh at the comments and Tags of Cooper Lawerence's Book on Amazon. Those Comments nearly Made me laugh and turn blue in the face

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

 An interesting list. I must say I'm glad to see Frogboy on it. It is nice to see Brad get some recognition for his maverick ways with regards to defending gamer rights.  

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"The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

You still haven't understood what Barack Obama tried to say about videogames: Homework for school comes first, then you can play videogames or football, read books for your leisure, or watch tv. And yes, in some cases, especially in inner city America games and watching tv might be seen as one way to underachieve academically - in schools. He also said that parents should parent and do their bit in raising their children. I, for one, agrees with this -ehm- message.

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

I don't know if you've noticed, but underachieving in inner city America is pretty easy to accomplish with or without videogames.  The truth is, Video Games were a metaphor for underachievement during most of his campaign, which doesn't give a lot of confidence that he has a positive outlook, or even an enlightened one, on the subject. 

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Obama ... really?

So the guy bought some xbox live ads, it's certainly newsworthy and possibly listworthy but number one?

 

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

I agree.  It would have made more sense if this were a more general tech-oriented list (given how expertly his campaign used the internet, social networking, etc during the presidential race) than a games list, really.

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

More Obama worship.

meh.

At noon on January 20, 2009 it all becomes his fault. Whatever "it" may be.

--Verbinator

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

Pretty much, apparently Sean Hannity is already calling this the "Obama Resession"

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

Re: Gaming's Most Politically Fascinating People of 2008

thank you. Beatifull Archile !
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GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 11/07/09 at 04:27pm
ZippyDSMlee: man I got alot of junk and dup files too >< god I need orginization...and no not the knee capping media mafia kind :P
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:26pm
ZippyDSMlee: replaced :P
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:23pm
ZippyDSMlee: beemoh:hey its like 60GB porn,400GB anime 100GB games and crap I have took from all my DVDs, I hate waiting on dvds to install stuff..... oh and 40GB of my porn was in the found.000 folder...mostly corrupted.... least I got names of wut needs to be repa
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:18pm
beemoh: @Zip: ...and you'd have to spend all that time re-downloading that porn?
Posted 11/07/09 at 03:34pm
ZippyDSMlee: ggrrrrr......vista lost one of my hard drives and I had a heart attack thinking I lost 1TB of data....
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:58am
JDKJ: Which could be explained by both (a) and (b).
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:56am
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: You forgot C) the fact that, for some reason, every time he did something that would suggest he shouldn't be in the military, let alone an officer, higher ups ignored it or let it slide.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:51am
JDKJ: Part of the problem is, I believe, that (a) the Army had a lot of time and money already invested in him and which they were unwilling to simply write-off and (b) an increasing need for the type of skills and services he provided.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:48am
JDKJ: And that even if he was begging not to get cut loose, he was apparently a real good candidate for being cut loose, anyway.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:11am
JDKJ: @chada: And while Kennedy once noted that there's usually more than enough blame for everyone to get a slice, the possibility that the Army was unwilling to cut loose someone who was asking to get cut loose could be a factor.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:07am
ZippyDSMlee: *noms on his feet*..nomnomnomnom*droooll* ...wuuutttttt uuu looking at?
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:05am
JDKJ: I'm no psychologist, but I'm told that crazy people have a tendency to do crazy things.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:03am
chadachada321: Whoops, was out of the convo for awhile. I do wonder what type of ammo he used etc, but the real issue is WHY he did it, not HOW
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:56am
JDKJ: But if it turns out that they actually did, they'll have Hell to pay.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:45am
JDKJ: And I'd tend to rule out the possibilty of FN Herstal supplying restricted ammunition to someone merely because they're ordering it from a military base.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:37am
JDKJ: I know you don't leave your gated community and get around much in dark alleys, so you may be surprised to learn that there's this thing called "the black market" where, if you've got enough money, ain't too much of anything which can't be bought.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:36am
Austin_Lewis: Or, maybe he or someone else at the base ordered the SS190 from FN Herstal.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:32am
Austin_Lewis: the hands of private owners. They run about 300 dollars minimum for a box of 50, and boxes of AP 5.7 are extremely scarce, mainly residing in the hands of Class III stores or individuals who for one reason or another got a demo box of it.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:30am
Austin_Lewis: There are other firearms that fire the 5.7. However, I too would like to know where he got the ammo and what kind was used. Maybe Hasan, planning not to live through this, went out and bought one the boxes of SS190 that are floating around in
Posted 11/07/09 at 08:44am
JDKJ: And it isn't yet clear what type of ammunition Hasan used. It's strange that he purchased a gun but didn't purchase ammunition for it at the same place and time. Especially because the calibre required is peculiar to the actual gun.
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