Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

January 9, 2009 -

Over at Kombo, journo Brad Hilderbrand surveys how gay and lesbian characters are depicted in games and finds those portrayals wanting:

Unfortunately games have fallen back into the rut of stereotype and hyperbole. While there are brief moments in games like Fable II or Metal Gear Solid that treat homosexuality with a careful, thoughtful approach, the game industry seems to be far more comfortable sticking with tired clichés and stereotypes for the sake of not offending, but also not progressing...

 

In a market where Marcus Phoenix stands as the definition of a man and Lara Croft is the essence of what it means to be a woman, there seems to be little inclination to tackle one of society's biggest taboos. While games have the potential to stand at the bleeding edge of social and political commentary, they prefer to play it safe and put sales above message, lagging far behind their contemporaries in television and cinema...

 


Comments

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

I love Neil Patrick Harris, firstly because I'm a huge fan of, literally, EVERYTHING he's done, but also because he proves that it's possible to be gay and not act like a mincing, lisping, affectacious idiot.

When they can create a game character that doesn't wear their orientation like a banner, waving it in everyone's face, then you'll likely see more gay characters.

However, the reality is that even if there were openly gay characters in games who acted like normal human beings instead of the raving queens that are so often portrayed as the norm, no doubt there'd be SOMEBODY complaining that they weren't gay ENOUGH

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

That article is fairly ridiclious. It isn't gaming's job to get on the pedestal for any religion, sexual preferance, ethnicity, etc.

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

How is including non-stereotyped gay characters getting on a pedestal?

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

One word or many words: Mass Effect and Jade Empire both touched the issue of homosexuality; in Jade Empire you can have a three-way, if you so choose. I think there's a broader issue at stake here, developers afraid to touch the issue of human sexuality in games at all.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Not really that surprising though.  After all, you can't depict too much sex before you're game is slapped with an AO.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

I find it laughable that people say that gay characters shouldn't be included in games because they believe homosexuality to be morally wrong, yet no one has a problem with GTA in which you play a as criminal taking part in morally wrong behaviour.

I remember the same arguements with Brokeback Mountain in which a film about homosexuality was condemned by many for its subject matter because it could lead people to become homosexual (although it's not possible) yet they seemed okay with films about serial killers (in  which the killer is the anti-hero type character).

If we can't have films and games with homosexuality because some believe it to be morally wrong behaviour, then why do we have films and games about killers and criminals?

Also as I have said before and others this isn't just about homosexuality, it's also about the lack of love interests for female characters (because young boys are so homophobic, they don't want to play as a female with a male love interest) and this makes for rather flat characterisation.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

In a market where Marcus Phoenix stands as the definition of a man and Lara Croft is the essence of what it means to be a woman, there seems to be little inclination to tackle one of society's biggest taboos.

And why should there be?  I don't like being preached at by my entertainment, and I'm sure as hell not going to pay $60 for the "privilege".

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Um so don't? I don't like the GTA series so I don't buy it. So Simple.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Miss my point, much?

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

You had one?

If you don't want to buy a game with homosexual elements... then don't buy it. Problem solved, no whining or grandstanding required.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

The name is Marcus Fenix not Marcus Phoenix like the dumbass writer wrote...

 

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Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

I have a question. I've seen the argument in this thread, and in other sites that if we include gay or lesbian love scenes or characters in games that it's forcing people who don't believe in that to sit through it? Well Does that mean I'm forced to sit through straight love scenes and plots?

I remember my horror at seeing Star Trek Nemesis, and watching Diana Troy and Picard have sex. It almost ruined star trek for me, and I am bisexual. I get sick of the excessive sex in everything, but how can you really say that gay/lesbian sex belongs in the bedroom privatly but not straight sex unless you make the argument about gay and lesbianism not being normal or even right.

Also I think that probably anything with a major gay lovestory or sex plot would automatically be classified LGBT which would just end up doing more damage to the game as far as mainstream medium goes.

But seriously how is it being forced to sit through something you don't like or believe in if there's gay characters in games, but not straight characters?

Plus non gay couples may be more common, and even non gay people, but there are a lot of gays, lesbians, bisexuals who do like videogames. And I know plenty of people who don't care about it period. Like so what, I kiss my girlfriend outside why can't she kiss hers type thing.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

"I remember my horror at seeing Star Trek Nemesis, and watching Diana Troy and Picard have sex."

Picard didn't fuck Troi. Riker did. I assume you just got their names mixed up. S'alright, if that's the case.

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"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Gay in this trem mirrors the amount of people that follow X life style, so since non gay couples are the higher avrage, then theres not going to be ALOT of gay in game..unless you count bad game designs...but thats using the word in a diffrent way.

Could there be alil more, sure you can always have charatcer that get along really well and never really dev into thier relationship much and becoeeing flame bait and all.


Shearing/Downloading will never be a mainstream market.


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes
of transportation of story and thought, to take them from
society and you create a society of children and nannys


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

You make a good point. but I would say that because games as a medium (and entertainment in general I guess) is often sought out to allow us to step into situations we normally would be unable or unwilling to fulfill in reality, that it's an important topic that could be explored through games.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

You're assuming that people want to step into that sort of situation. If most people don't, the game sales go bye-bye really fast. Sending a message is great, but companies have to sell enough stuff to stay in business.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

A thread about homosexuality and it gets taken over by silly comments because obviously the topic at hand can't be handled with maturely by some. This is why homosexuality is not present in many games because teenage boys can't handle the subject well at all.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

 How is this not being handled well? Oh, oh I see. People are expressing a dislike of homosexuals, that must mean they are immature. That makes you no better than religious people demonizing homosexuals, as far as I'm concerned. So I'll approach your arguments with the same vitrol.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

No, a dislike of a homosexuals isn't immature. Oh, you'd be so lucky if it was merely immature.

Instead, its hateful, stupid, short-sighted, and ultimately a result of your inability to accept practices that differ from your own.

Don't threat to argue with vitrol. You're talking about hating a group of people because they choose to love people of the same sex. There is no need for you to use angry, mean, or hateful words, because the essence of your opinion already conveys this sentiment.

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

The it's the degradation into schoolboy humour. Express your dislike of homosexuality if you want, but of course your credibility would be greatly increased if you saw more in the issue than a couple of crude jokes.

It just goes to show how hard it would ever be to get sex and similar matters to be taken seriously in games.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Marcus: "DAMNIT! MORE LOCUSTS! BY THE WAY I'M GAY!"

Dom: "Wait, wha-?"

Marcus: "I SAID MORE LOCUSTS!"

Dom: "Oh"

Marcus: "-THAT I WOULD HAVE SEX WITH IF THEY WERE WELL-BUILT HUMAN MALES LATHERED IN OIL!"

Dom: "Christ, I just realized our hands are bigger than our heads."

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Marcus: "All the better to fap with, my dear."

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

I can't think of a scenario where the protagonist being gay would have a significant impact on a game's story without it seeming cliched and/or overdone.

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Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Which would be the point. Of course having a gay lead character is going to seem overdone. Its hard not to be overdone when seeing two men kiss causes people to shift awkwardly in their seats. Or reach for their pistols.

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

In my experience usually gay characters are written as they are for humor.

 

FOr instance Florian AKA Bernie in GTA4, he may have been a stereotype, but I hardly stopped laughing during his cutscenes.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Just recently on the Gamefaqs Persona 4 boards (because I'm a big nerd), someone posted the question, "would you like to se the next protagonist of the series be female."  About half the responses were open to the idea, because we've all done it before (The Longest Journey, Beyond Good and Evil, Tomb Raider, Wild Arms 3).  However, many were against the idea, because the Persona series has incorporated dating sim elements, and they would be too uncomfortable going on dates with male characters.  While never openly expressed, this is classic homophobia in the Western world.  "You mustn't do anything that could even remotely be percieved as gay, because real men aren't gay."  Even through the lens of a female game character, they couldn't bring themselves to view a story fold out where their controlled avatar flirted and dated boys.  Many claimed they simply couldn't relate to the situation, but that was a cover, because up until now many women gamers had played through the series with male characters, with nary a complaint.

Another faction said they would agree to playing a girl, but only if she was/could be bisexual or a lesbian.  This showed two things.  They were just as uncomfortable as the first group about leading a female avatar on dates with boys.  But also the standard, "hur, hur, lesbians r hawt!"  Make no mistake, this group had no strong interest in seeing homosexuals represented in games in any meaningful way.  They just wanted girl-on-girl fanservice.

Of course, this did lead the discussion to having homosexual options in future games.  The group that opposed a female avatar also opposed a gay male lead.  The ones that just wanted lesbians don't count.  But it was almost universally agreed that IF both the gender and the sexual orientation were customizable (you pick), then that would be ok.  This allowed females and gay characters to get their feet in the door, without "imposing" themselves on those that didn't want to experience it.  Homophobes could still play the game, and just choose options that didn't make them question their manhood.  And people willing to try a new kind of story, could do so.

At least two people made (not unfounded) arguements that if gay characters were included, they would probably only be useful as fanservice (or worse, stereotypical).  Considering most of the gay characters in the past, it is understandable why they'd feel that way.

I don't have a point to all this.  I just wanted to relate an experiece I had discussing this issue, as debated by anonymous gamer geeks on a site not known for thoughtful discourse.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Or it could just be the fact that it's rather awkward for a straight guy to have to roleplay hitting on other guys...

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Any more awkward that a straight woman having to roleplay hitting on girls?  Let's face it, the JRPG sub-genre doesn't really have a whole lot of "roleplaying."  You play stories that already have defined protagonists.  Persona just offers a little more freedom in some of the socialization, but the overall story arc is already linear and set in stone.

The issue at hand is, with everything else that Persona offers (great story, character interactions, enjoyable combat, monster-raising demons, etc), should the fact that the main character is female or gay be a deterrent from enjoying the game?

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

I think the main character either has to add to the game or detract from it. Essentially, you're becoming that character if you're roleplaying. You either empathize with the character and enjoy taking on the roll or don't connect with the character and don't really enjoy playing as him/her.

If you're heterosexual, I think you can still identify with a character of the opposite sex in a romantic relationship. Hell, you have to be able to identify with a member of the opposite sex if you want to maintain a romantic relationship in the real world. As a heterosexual person, you don't fully understand the opposite sex, but you understand the relationship well enough to empathize with and understand them. It would probably be more awkward for a person of one sex to roleplay a character of the opposite sex in a romantic situation, but it's doable.

On the other hand, I think heterosexual gamers would have more trouble identifying with a homosexual protagonist. The entire attraction would be rather foreign to the player because his/her mind simply doesn't see things that way. Players can appreciate (or at least deal with) homosexual secondary characters, but I think they'd have more trouble connecting with a homosexual main character simply because they don't can't easily relate to that character's attractions.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

You make some good points, and I do agree on a certain level.  However, that's not the kind of rationale I got from the gamefaq's discussion.  Straight or gay didn't really matter, only the object of effection (dating boys or girls).

The original point of the thread was about a female protagonist.  Even when talking about a straight girl, a large portion of the replies said they couldn't handle going through the dating part of the game (which would have been about a girl going on dates with boys).  So while you say that we should be able to relate to a heterosexal character's relationships even of the opposite sex (while maybe still awkward), apparently that wasn't the case for many.

On the other hand, quite a few of this same group said they'd be more than willing to play through as a girl if she were homosexual.  If it's harder for a straight person to relate to homosexual relationships, that seems odd.  But really, these guys were comfortable with the idea if it were lesbians.  Hell, they were probably more enthusiastic about "roleplaying" a lesbian than they were about "roleplaying" a stright male.  From this I have to conclude that "roleplying" isn't even part of the discussion, especially since we're talking about a JRPG.

Basically, they only had problems with any scenario where they, the player, was controlling a character that hit on boys.  Didn't matter whether the character was heterosexual or homosexual.  If relating to the character mattered to them, then even the lesbian option would have been uncomfortable to them.  But that wasn't the case.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Interesting. That would be the exact opposite of the way I would approach the scenario. Of course, we also have to remember that this is GameFAQs we're talking about.

Still, I suppose both ways of thinking reinforce what developers already do. Players seem most comfortable playing as a heterosexual male character. If you're a developer trying to sell games, you're going to want to do whatever your players want you to do. Yes, games have the potential to be a an utra-edgy and controversial art form, but I can almost guarantee that such an approach would hurt sales. Given the choice between sales and a message, I think most game developers will choose sales so they can stay in business.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

I'd actually liek to see a serious game where a person ahs to deal wiht coming out and the repercussions in our society currently from it. Might help a lto fo people gain perspective.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

If you think video games aren't gay enough then perhaps you should try playing Lunar Silver Star Story and Lunar 2 Eternal Blue.

The most "obviously in the closet" villian ever. Ghaleon.

I'm sorry but when you have that accent, and one of your lines is "It's time for my coming out party to finally begin"...

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Ghaleon was bad but zophar was worse depending on which system you played the game on. i had the sega cd version but he looks far gayer in the ps1 version i hear.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

 Coming out is synonymous with coming of age, you jackass.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Awwwww, someone needs another dose of manlove!
 

*snuggles with Derovius* 

You of all people should know the meaning of context. It was the context of the quote, in which Ghaleon was shoving off his previous identity to reveal himself as the villain. It happens roughly a fourth of the way into the game so I don't feel too bad posting it here for anyone who hasn't played the game. It was purposefully hammed up with a stereotypical homosexual accent by the voice actor (who has that kind of voice to begin with. You'd know that if you actually played the game) to make it a double entendre. Lunar Silver Star Story and Lunar Eternal Blue are riddled with sexual innuendos, jokes, and puns. It was intended.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

When I think of gays in video games, I think first of the Shadow Hearts series.  Aside from vendors always being (flamboyantly) gay, SH2 had a main character how was gay.  Joachim was a gay, pro-wrestling vampire.  Granted, he was a bit stereotypical and was never really taken seriously by the story.  There was even a side quest that involved him ending up having gay sex off screen, for laughs.

A more positive role-model for the gay video game character would be Nel Zelpher from Star Ocean 3.  She wasn't stereotypicly gay, she didn't flaunt it, however it was implied several times that she and Claire had a relationship.  Even if you beat the game with her with the hightest "affection level" for Fayt, she still ends up with Claire.  This is a perfect example of how to incorporate gay characters into games without annoying everyone.  They didn't make a big deal about it, she didn't stop the plot to say, "oh and I'm gay," and she wasn't a stereotype (she was badass in combat, but she was career military).  I think the biggest problem is that gay people are just like everyone else.  You wouldn't know them if you saw them, unless they go out of thier way to announce it in some way.  Which annoys the hell out of everyone.  Once a college, a guy crossing the quad just suddenly shouted, "I'm gay!" in a joyous manner.  I shouted back, "I'm straight, but you don't see me bragging about it."  I am all for gay rights and tolerance, but I don't understand why announcing it to everyone is so special.

For anyone that wants to do some extra homework:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_characters_in_video_games

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

While the outburst you mentioned is a littler strange I have to disagree.

 

Have you ever kissed a girl (I'm assuming you're a guy) in public? Now have you ever seen a girl and a guy make out in public? How about a guy and a guy?

Being gay involves hiding yourself a LOT from the general public. For fear of being attacked verbally ro physically. I avoid certain businesses and resterants that I would otherwise go itno because I'm afraid of their other clientel. Announcing or telling people isn't about trying to be the center of attention, ti's about not feeling like an outcast every minute.

If you want to get an idea of how it feels, pick one week and refuse to do anything intimate (holding hands, kissing, leaning in etc.) with your partner when you're in public. Take some time and see how it feels. I bet by the end of the week you'll be dying to go make out at a movie or something. It makes you feel like you're worthless and that there is something wrong with you when you have to be scared to eb who you are while other people can see.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Then what you are discribing is a symptom of a larger problem.  A large portion of society frowns upon gays, or outright discriminates against them.  So in an act if defiance, they blurt it out openly and publicly to force people to pay attention.  However, that's not optimal, as they are only reacting to prejudice. 

I'm not talking about two guys holding hands and giving each other a peck before class.  That's standard PDA, and there's nothing wrong with that (I do take issue with anyone, straight or gay, trying to slurp out each other's tonsils in public.  eww).  But it's quite another thing to make a spectacle of yourself, to brandish your preferences as some sort of challenge.  Do you want the crowd of strangers to be proud of you, or are you trying to make them uncomfortable?  Ideally, they shouldn't care what orientation you are, so it would be rather pointless and rude to impose your sexuality on others.  Worse, you are making what shouldn't mean anything, into the defining trait that everyone identifies you with.  What would that be like if everyone did it?  "Hello fellow employee, my name is Blank, it's nice to meet you.  By the way, I have a bondage fetish.  So, would you like to begin the presentation?"

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Like I said, the outburst of "I'm GAY!" randomly in public is odd to say the least. But things like pride parades are meant to bring to people's attention that yes, there are gay people around you. How many times have you heard some random person on the street saying something derogatory about gay people. A lot of times those people aren't necessarily prejudiced, they wouldn't say something to hurt or offend a gay person, it's just common habit (example: [insert anything here] is gay).

The point is to make people realize that there are gay people all over the place, and to get them to start realizing that we really are just another sub group of the general population. Basically by making a spectacle of ourselves we:

1. Reaffirm ourselves for ourselves so that we don't feel like outcasts.

2. Reaffirm to the community in general that we exist.

3. Give people a chance to experience our culture (yes I'm referring to things like the leather/bondage community, Drag queens etc. A lot of those people do a lot of good for the community through events and fundraisers) and an opportunity for someone who hasn't had direct first hand experience of a gay person or gay culture a safe place to explore that without being afraid that they will get hit on or offend someone.

A lot of straight people come to gay pride events to learn, make friends, and talk to people and a lot of pride events are more geared towards dealing with current issues and education. They also are good ways for people to learn about gay owned and operated businesses in the area and ways for people who haven't come out yet to be able to make friends without endangering their secrecy.

What I find odd is that straight people get offended by it. We aren't the ones telling you to hide yourselves away because you're weird. In fact I find the most encouraging thing to me is to have a straight friend or family member come to a gay pride event because it shows me that they really do consider me and other gays just another part of the community whole.

It's essentially a regular festival when you get right down to it, with food, vendors, entertainment (men's choruses, performers, singers, plays, dances, parties etc.) and rather then being based around cars (car shows) or holidays (christmas parades, thanksgiving parades, large scale easter egg hunts), or city or state anniversaries, or race (black pride parades), or political stance, it's based around sexual identity, and acceptance and tolerance of ALL sexual identities.

In essence it's not even just about gays, it's about tolerance for everyone regardless of their sexual identity or preferance. Which means it SHOULD be just as affirming to you as it is to me.

And I almost forgot, why si it a negative thing for sexual identity to be part of how you are identified? Isn't that how we identify mothers and fathers, husbands and wives? Girlfriends and boyfriends, those terms wouldn't exist and wouldn't be useable if you weren't aware of someone's sexual identity. Is me commenting to my friend or employer that my boyfriend (I'm a guy) would like to come with me to the christmas party "shouting out" about my sexuality? Where does the line get drawn?

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

I have no problem with gay pride events, they're no different to me than the "Take Back the Night" events that women hold, or a cultural fair for foreigners to show off thier nation.  These events serve the purpose of raising awareness, and those that wish to be exposed to them can attend.  But I'm still talking about something entirely different, and I don't think you mean to deflect, but you are. 

As we have been talking about with gays in video games, there's only a few ways to alert the player to the fact that someone is gay (since they are people just like everyone else).  You either go with a stereotype.  Or you can announce it in a blatently ridiculous scene that has little bearing on the story, because the writer is artificially trying to prove something.  Very few games, like SO3, just let the character's sexual orientation flow out of interactions in a natural way.  Most of the time, a scene with a homosexual relationship is designed in a way to bring additional attention to it, it's something "special" that you're supposed to react to, and not just a matter of fact as part of the character's identity.

So I'm not talking about gays having to hide, or they should just keep it to the parades.  I am talking specifically of homosexuals that make it a point to let their sexuality become their "everything."  That's what I feel when I see someone make a huge announcement to random strangers, or when they go super-flamboyant to catch everyone's attention.  I wasn't saying it was wrong to have your sexual identity as part of how you are identified.  However, it shouldn't be your defining trait, like a label by which you are associated.  "Hi this is my friend Terry, and he's gay."  That person's first impression of you is now about what you do in the bedroom.  Not, "Hi, this is Terry, and he works in the automotive industry," or, "Hi, this is Terry, and he loves jazz as much as you do."  Nope, he's now "Terry the gay guy."  And there is a difference with if you introduce your gay boyfriend to our coworkers, and throwing it out there to random strangers.  Don't strawman me.

Like I said several times already, gays shouldn't hide it.  They should treat their lovers in public just as any couple would.  But they also shouldn't flail it about their head like a mace, ready to strike at anyone that gets within range.  For true equality to be reached, gay people will end up treating their sexuality the way straight people do.  That it's no big deal.  By making it a primary factor of your identity, all you are doing is reacting to the prejudice.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

And as I said part of a lot of these actions is a reaction, to fear, being marginalized etc.

I agree that if ti is involved (in any media really not just games) it shouldn't be thrown in just for kicks or to prove a point. But what you're describing would be bad writing no matter what the scene or situation, it's not specific to gay relationships.

A game writer could make a script that was as endearing as any of the great game relationships we know and love (I'm leaving it up to you to pick your favorite here) and it could just as easily be a straight or gay relationship.

My example, I really liked the love story in Final Fantasy X and X2 (I know most people hated X2 but it was an interesting if not entirely well done addition to the storyline). My point is that the thing that makes us love these stories is not the fact that it's a hot guy/girl (based on your preferance) in the scene, it's the situations and obstacles involved in the story and how they are dealt with that make it good.

You're making a blanket assumption that because there is an overwhelming prejudice against homosexuals in our society that it's not possible to have a decent love story written into a game about them, and that there is no good way to involve them in a game. I would say a more accurate statement is that games in general do not handle relationships well for the most part, but that a homosexual relationship could be included in a storyline just as well and easily as a straight one. The difficulty comes in writting the story well, not in the gender of the characters being portrayed.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

The reason why they aren't included in many games is simple: profit. Developers know that teenage boys make up a big percentage of the market and they are incredibly homophobic and so they don't want to put it in there for risk of upsetting them. If people think that it is because the developers are worried about the controversy in the press, then they are wrong because when has that stopped a company putting excessive violence and gore in a game?

Also note how with female characters very few of them have boyfriends, but quite a lot of male characters have girlfriends (or are part of rescue the pretty girl type missions). It's simply because a male love interest would put many teenage boys off of that particular game. The most homosexuality I see in games is when it is bounded around as abuse from gamers. Quite frankly there are not that many gamers out there who are mature enough to handle the subject (just look at some of the above posts).

Lesbians are seen more often (particularly lipstick lesbians) because again it gets the teenage boy interested in the game, Fear Effect 2 being a perfect example. In Mass Effect the female could go gay, but the male couldn't, a bit unfair really.

I must say that Rockstar have done a lot of positive work towards this issue. Bully featured it, and although there were some stereotypes in GTA4 in missions you defended the gay character from the anti-gay crowd, Bernie was your friend.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Yeah, I'd say plenty of games are pretty fucking gay.

---------------------------------

Internet troll > internet paladin

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Perhaps it's that no one gives a flaming flying frig about homosexuality in games, and doesn't want someone's perception of what a gay relationship or gay person should be forced down their throats?

It's bastards like these guys that make my gay friends even further segregated in society. It isn't 'progressive' to force people to accept something they find morally wrong. It's 'progressive' to teach not to harm someone for something you disagree with.

However, idiots like this, even though they sound more levelheaded than greenpeace and peta, are much the same.

It's people like this that bring gay propoganda into first grade classrooms, that should have absolutely no mention of sexuality in them.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Chill, man.

I haven't read the article because it's a massive wall of text but it seems like more of a suggestion then a demand. Besides even if was a demand there's no way he'd get a bill passed to that effect, what with compelled speech being illegal and all.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

It's 'progressive' to teach not to harm someone for something you disagree with.

And you teach this by never addressing the issue of homosexuality as it interfaces with the larger culture...how?

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

 It confuses children if they are told that there are many different ways for someone to be married. This is why all children should be raised with the original notion of pairing between a man and a woman and allowed to disagree later in life and adjust accordingly.

 At the end of the day, if you believe that indocrination can occur by having this sort of standard, its better for EVERYONE if people are indocrinated into a productive pairing/mating system. If we start confusing straight children into being something they are not, you are further reducing the breeding population. As it stands, Western society is on the verge of a population crisis; there is simply not enough births to counteract the deaths.

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

our population is already to high and climbing, you fail!

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

Re: Journalist Asks: Are Games Gay Enough?

Population crisis? You got any proof of that?

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
 
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WonderkarpJohn Oliver : Corporations On Twitter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG_7xur1iRc I feel like this is relevent11/25/2014 - 4:53pm
WonderkarpBurt Macklin, Anthropologist. I look forward to Jurassic Parks and Recreation.11/25/2014 - 4:36pm
Andrew EisenYep.11/25/2014 - 4:16pm
E. Zachary KnightDid Jaws 3 take place in a theme park?11/25/2014 - 4:14pm
Andrew EisenHey, they're remaking Jaws 3. Sweet! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFinNxS5KN411/25/2014 - 3:22pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/11/25/sony-to-refund-vita-customers-in-ftc-settlement-over-false-ads/ Sony is offering a refund to Vita owners who fell for their false advertising during the Vita launch.11/25/2014 - 2:49pm
Matthew Wilsondoes not shock me. people have been representing this as right vs left, but in truth its more like left vs even more left. better put is social libertarianism vs liberal moralism.11/25/2014 - 2:36pm
WonderkarpOfficial Occupy WallStreet Twitter Supports GamerGate https://twitter.com/OccupyWallSt/status/536928387869474818 heh11/25/2014 - 2:11pm
Matthew WilsonI saw that given that the gc adapters have been sold out everywhere, I thought it was higher.11/25/2014 - 11:49am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/11/25/smash-bros-sells-over-490k-on-wii-u-in-three-days/ Some good Nintendo news for a change.11/25/2014 - 11:48am
ZippyDSMleehttp://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.865821-Irrational-Games-Rises-From-The-Dead-is-Hiring-Again11/25/2014 - 10:20am
Neeneko@james - yeah, the bar is low, but it still requires a DA that wants you to indict. This grand jury was so oddly handled I would not be surprised if the feds get involved.11/25/2014 - 10:19am
WonderkarpETSY find of the Day. http://tinyurl.com/pa7ymqb I want that on my wall.11/25/2014 - 9:31am
Michael ChandraThe Grand Jury isn't supposed to go "but there is reasonable doubt of their guilt, so no trial", right? I thought the whole idea was "there is reasonable doubt of their innocence, so let a full trial+jury decide."11/25/2014 - 8:41am
Michael ChandraExcept for when cops are involved. Which I never understood. In cases where police officers shot unarmed fleeing people in the back, how can you not assume there is a reasonable chance it was out of line?11/25/2014 - 8:40am
james_fudgeThe old joke is that a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich - that's how little evidence it requires. The bar is LOW.11/25/2014 - 3:19am
Wonderkarpstill catch 2211/24/2014 - 10:22pm
Matthew Wilsonit wasnt a trail though. it was a reasonable suspicion. the bar for that is very low. there are cases that wnt to trial with way less evidence than this one.11/24/2014 - 10:14pm
Wonderkarptbh. the whole trial is a catch 22. cause any verdict would cause some kind of loud backlash. I hope I'm wrong and the Backlash doesnt happen, or is small.11/24/2014 - 9:44pm
WymorenceYeah, I live in Washington and even I'm prepping to avoid doing anything in public for the next few days... Can't imagine what it'll be like back east with the blowback from this...11/24/2014 - 9:40pm
 

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