January 13, 2009
While there are those who would seek to link playing video games to crime and violence, the latest Federal Bureau of Investigation statistics seem to indicate otherwise.
A report released yesterday by the FBI shows that, nationwide, violent crime fell 3.5% during the first half of 2008.
At the same time that violent crime was on the decline, game console and game software sales experienced a sharp increase. NPD reports that console sales revenues jumped from $6.1 billion to $8.3 billion during the same January-June period reported on by the FBI.
Comments
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
This "story" is idiotic. christ, is it a slow news day? It's about as pointless as the fearmongers who connect videogames and violence without causal evidence or specific research. Stick to reporting news, rather than waxing your pole.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Eight stories published today. I wouldn't call that slow.
Anyway, I don't see where you're getting pole waxing out of this story. New figures are released that don't jive with what a lot of industry critics have been saying. That's news. I don't see GP claiming that video games are causing a downward trend in violence or that there's even a correlation between the two other than one's up and one's down.
Andrew Eisen
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Unfortunately we can't quite say that either is a causation of the other right now. Violent video games and crime are most likely not directly linked, but there is likely damage being done.
I always compare video games to alcohol. Some people can take a bottle of gin and just be a bit rosy cheeked and fine, other people start vomiting and flailing after a glass of wine.
However, it becomes sick to drink alcohol when you drink copious amounts, and it's always a bit unsettling when someone gets drunk alone, if not outright sick.
The positives? A glass of wine or gin tonic or a shot of vodka (I know, gin is made with vodka, take the metaphor) with friends can be fine, it tastes good, and if drank responsibly is an overall pleasant and safe experience.
Also, alcohol is very myriad in its uses, as are video games. =P
Our goal shouldn't be to correlate video games directly to crime directly, but to work to prevent irresponsible gameplay, and to provide as wide a range of 'proofs' as possible, and to clearly label the games that are really intense and gory as such. Unreal tournament is nowhere near left 4 dead on scale of intensity or immersion, but it has the same rating.
In fact, you can turn all blood and gore off in it and not castrate gameplay. The game ranges from blowing someone to chunks and yelling "Blow me" or "You dick", to knocking them over (Albeit with a large explosion) and yelling "You play like a GIRL!".
Why can't other games have the same options, so people can decide how strong they want their games, without having peer pressure on playing something that's too intense for them?
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
All this proves is violent crime is not on the rise. It doesn't mean video games are causing a decline. After all, who's to say that without video games, violent crime would be on an even steeper decline?
Still, it is an interesting anecdote.
Andrew Eisen
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
I know it's not really related, but if you look at the chart PS3 sales were actually higher than 360 sales for a while. booyah.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Their probably not connected, there's a very slim possibility, but a lot of research might be in order.
But hey, at least not ALL is wrong with the US. Our economy is in the crapper, but crime is declining... It's a start, right?
We can be hopeful again.
Only by letting strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
These statistics are interesting, but even I have serious doubt that the two are connected in any way, in both directions. Although the next time a politician says crime is on the rise, we know for sure that it is complete crap.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
To be fair to the politicos, crime could very well be on the rise in their local area when they say that. It really depends on whether they say "nationwide", and what time scale they're talking about.
-Gray17
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
"Correlation does not causation make."
Stop looking at a 1:1 relationship between two viables, you will never find any causation, only correlation. The a arguement of "more gaming + less crime = video games good" is no better than the people trying to blame videogames for said crimes. This is not vindication, but a matter of happenstance.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
See my posts from further up the page. No causation is being invented or supported by the statistics presented. The only thing being put forth is evidience contrary to the idea that video games cause violence. Just because it's proving them wrong doesn't mean it's proving us right.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
"Just because it's proving them wrong doesn't mean it's proving us right."
Incorrect, seeing as to prove them wrong is to prove us right, subsequently if we are not right, they are not wrong. Try again.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
No, to prove them wrong is to prove them wrong. Sure, it comes with a heavy message that we're in the right, but it by no means proves us correct. Unless that is if our argument is that they're wrong, in which case it would prove us right, but my statement is based off of the assumption that we'd have a more formulated argument than that. Either way, there are always more than 2 sides of an argument. When something is multifaceted, to discount one does not immediately point to a different one. So again, to prove them wrong does not necessarily prove us right.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Logical fallacy, you cannot have 3 outcomes from a binary problem.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
further logical fallacy, you cannot claim only two outcomes exist. try again, sparky.
Here are we -- and yonder yawns the universe.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Yes... and no... Oh look, two outcomes.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
This ISN'T a binary problem. This isn't a coin toss. It's more like a die roll. Suppose someone's about to roll a die. Person A says it'll be 2, and Person B says it'll be 4. The die is rolled, and it's a 6. So just because Person A is wrong, does that mean Person B is necessarily right? No. It shows that it's possible for both people, with different statements, to be wrong.
Or rather, let me put it this way. Two statements here...
1) More games means more crime.
2) More games means less crime.
You're thinking there can be only two possibilities:
A) Statement 1 is true and statement 2 is false.
OR
B) Statement 1 is false and statement 2 is true.
However, statements 1 and 2 are not as connected as you may think. And this leads to another possibility:
C) Both statements are false.
You say you can't have three outcomes to a binary problem. But it's not a binary problem; it's two binary problems, and the combination of these two binary problems can have three outcomes.
Thank you and good night.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
you are all missing the point, talking about your binary and what not and saying "it doesnt prove us right but it proves them wrong."
The simple fact of the matter is that this evidence in no way proves that violent viedo games don't encourge violence.
Lets look at one hypothetical here.
Lets assume for the sake of argument video games do support crime, so all these extra consoles actually do encourge crime. At the same time numerouse anti crime education campaigns have been launched. Despite the increase in crime being motivated by video games, the education turns out to be very effective causing a sharp decrease in crime. Hence although video games have encrouged crime more, in the grand scheme of things it has lowerd.
See the problem here? now in real world there are about a billion other factors that come into play here so you simply cannot assume that video games don't encourge violence simply because crime has lowerd. To do so is to be very illogical and un-scientific.
Odly enough thats what most people here have done.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
oddly enough, that isn't. reading comprehension for the win.
Here are we -- and yonder yawns the universe.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
someone else being right or wrong is not dependant upon you being right or wrong, chief.
Here are we -- and yonder yawns the universe.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
The fact that there is no causation is irrelevant. It's very unlikely that anyone will ever find any causation between violence and videogames one way or the other. But the correlation is still big news. After all, crime has been going down ever since the invention of mass media videogaming. Sure, there's no definite link there, but in the face of politicians arguing to the contrary, there's a definite LACK of correlation between videogaming and increased crime rates. That is something to be happy about.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
... you cannot be that fucking stupid...
No, no really, did you just say that causation is not important in statistical findings? Get the fuck off my internet.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Acutally what he said, and if you'd been paying attention instead of your typical tolling you'd know this, is that there is a corellation between the decrease in the crime rate and the increase in video game media.
Politicians and people like Jack have been claiming to the contrary for years and now we have something to point to and say, with no small amount of confidence, that they are incorrect in their assesment of the situation.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
I don't care what he said about correlations in the datum, thats not the issue here. The issue here is that he says causation is not important in building up an action-reaction relationship. That has to be the fucking stupidest thing I've ever read here. Ever.
Anyone else can throw all the correlated datum they want, any halfwit knows what it is and to dismiss it. All we need is someone besides >halfwits in political positions are we are shiney.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
I like how Grand Theft Auto is the crime on that chart that has the biggest decline.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
yeah T5 is right. This report = a correlation so its pretty bogus to draw any causaul conculsions from it.
Of course the article may have been trying to make fun of people who do such things. In which case the point seems to be lost on most people here.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
The article isn't saying anything about causation on our side of the argument. The fact that the data is what it is proves that those who say there is a causation between violent crimes and violent video games are false. It doesn't prove us right. It simply proves them wrong.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Violent videogames were not mentioned here either.
My friends we have to let this one go. We are on the winning side, history will show this, we have the facts and we have the will. The gaming communities ciritcs are well outside the mainstream and those who are not are quickly adressed and all will be catalogued with the likes of Dr. Frederic Wertham. To offer frivolous research does nothing but hurt the cause.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Yeah,But i think these statistics might be temporary since were kinda in a recession,And i was thinking that crime may go back up after that, But with obama coming in office i hope it stay's like it is and lowers more, Let alone these stats are also missing the number of police officer causualites.
If im wrong, i hope so, I would like to see some facts about that.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
But this is only console games, what about we rampant, chaotic & disreputable PC gamers?
Also, a question in regards to other things on the chart, "Forcible Rape"? Whats the alternative?
Criminal: Pardon me madam, I'd like to rape you if that wouldn't be inconvenient.
Victim: Oh okay then, I've got 20 minutes to spare.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
The difference is that some girls have strange fetishes....
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Also, a question in regards to other things on the chart, "Forcible Rape"? Whats the alternative?
Statutory rape?
-Gray17
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
How does it differ? I assume it doesn't involve statues
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Statutory rape is having sex with a minor who has not reach the age of consent yet. Basically, having sex with someone without getting permission from their parent or guardian.
There is also Date rape where you have sex with an unconscious person.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
There is no seperate designation for date rape, the term is collequial in nature. People who commit date rape get charged with aggrevated sexual assault and the administration of a noxious substance, or some such nonsense.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
How exactly is it nonsense to charge someone with the administration of a drug as a secondary charge?
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Because it only happens to loose women, "Oh look, free booze from a complete stranger, I'll drink it."
The whore was just going to drink it and move on the next guy anyways, she gets no sympathy from me.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
And here is where I publicly call for your banning.
You just crossed the line.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Get in line.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
The "Correlation =\= Causation" argument still applies to this, after all what would we be saying if the opposite of this data was presented
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
true, but this is good for the "by your logic" counter-arguments
岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」
岩「…」
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Interesting... let's see the second half statistics though.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Take that Jack Thompson....YOU LOSE!!!
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Oh so those are the FBI statistics that JT was talking about that proved that video games are causing chaos and violence throughout the country/continent. That things are getting worse now and decisions must be made!!! Uh huh....rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright....really? Really?!
From the looks of those statistics, things are infact better than before. What is the difference from now and 10 years ago though? We have far more media coverage now...
==============
James Fletcher, member of ECA Canada
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
But...but...GTA!
This is a great study to counter anyone who spews that BS about video games training kids to be criminals. There should be a spike in crime if that were true, not a decline.
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Motor vehicle theft is on the decline because of better anti-theft tech that is being built into high target vehicles.
Expect to see theft, larcency and burglary go up in the first part of 2009.
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
People prefer to do those in GTA where it's funnier and nobody gets hurt.
When Jack Thompson runs his mouth, does anyone really care what he has to say anymore?
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
The figures are only for the first half of the year.
I also don't see, but simply may have missed in my rush to get back to work, an age breakdown (as these are the stats used to most mislead individuals, organizations, and government entities to force one's unconsitutional and Anti-American personal, religious, and/or political agendas on others).
Additionally, I notice a rise in some violent crime based on regional information, which I'm sure will ALSO be used to mislead and deceive others to push unconstitutional and Anti-American personal, religious, and/or political agendas.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Dude it's like the 13th they won't have figures for the second half of the year for a while.
I'd wager there was a HUEG spike in all crime though, because the economy is going into the shitter.
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
Yeah, but that can be shown to be the fault of the economy by showing when the increase happened in relation to the market collapse. However, games will still be to blame because of some flimsy, whimsical reason like "These were honest Americans, who were brainwashed into believing that when times are rough, you go out and commit crimes by these violence simulators."
Re: Amid Rising Game Console Sales, Crime Declines
So, the crime of grand theft auto has been decreasing the most...
---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.