Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

January 14, 2009 -

President-elect Barack Obama's choice to head the Federal Communications Commission seems like a win for gamers and online businesses, among others.

As Ars Technica reports, Julius Genachowski (left) is a proponent of Net Neutrality (and if you're not sure why that's important to gamers check out the ECA's Gamers For Net Neutrality advocacy page). Genachowski is also said to be against media consolidation.

Ars Technica quotes Josh Silver of media reform group Free Press on Genachowski:

Under Julius Genachowski's leadership, the FCC's compass would point toward the public interest.

Meanwhile, Steve Augustino, a Washington, D.C. attorney who works with Net Neutrality issues, praised Genachowski:

Genachowski was a senior advisor to former FCC chairman Reed Hundt in the 1990s and went on to an Internet business career afterward.  He was leading Obama's Technology Working Group prior to this designation.  This is very good news for Internet-based businesses.  The FCC will have a chair that understands your issues.

FULL DISCLOSURE DEPT: The ECA is the parent company of GamePolitics.


Comments

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

How would priority be designated? Setting a flag in the header would be a recipe for disaster, since it would take 5 minutes coding to set every packet that left the computer to high prioirty, so I'm assuming it's hardware based?

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

The other side of the issue for all interested parties

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-507es.html

http://www.handsoff.org/blog/

 

 

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

It's a good start. But we should just disban the FCC entirely, and rebuild.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

I agree with disbanning the FCC.  Though I would replace it with nothing.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Goodbye functional wireless communications!

 

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

But BOY HOWDY would we ever be sticking it to "the man"!

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

I have to agree with TJLK.  Net neutrality really isn't the best answer.  I don't think that the government is inherently evil, but I agree with TJLK, it's purpose is not to look after it's citizens.  It's supposed to be used to uphold our rights and protect us among other things. 

I'm not a fan of ISPs blocking or censoring what is available to their customers, but I am strongly opposed to limiting their ability to charge something for their services.  Companies like AT&T, Comcast, and Verizon, as well as thousands of small telephone companies like the one my father works for, have invested literally hundreds of billions of dollars into the thousands of miles of infastructure to support the internet.  Who's right is it to say that these companies don't deserve some sort of payment for their service that web giants like Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Ebay, etc. have been piggy backing off of. Small phone companies have seen none of the billions made by these companies. 

Based off this logic, why shouldn't a company that introduces a new faster internet have the right to somehow fund the incredible cost it would take to build such a service.  It's like hiring out hundreds of companies throughout the country to build a new updated roadway and then refuse to pay them for the use of the road.

The best solution in my opinion is to let the market regulate itself.  The US was founded on the principle of a free market and imposing more regulations is hardly a good idea.  Let the market do what it's good at.  If someone like Comcast charges too much another company charging less will step in and fulfill the need.

 

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Please don't forget about the huge investment government tax dollars made in building that infastructure.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Most of that was spent on making aquisitions and creating monopolies of major areas which is why we have very few ISPs these days. They didn't really strengthen the infrastructure as much as they were told. -.-


Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

They are getting compensated for building that infrastructure. All those people who pay for their service, that is their compensation. Google pays their dues. SO does every business in the world. They pay it to the ISP that connects their servers to the rest of the world. Just because an ISP wasn't lucky enough to have been the ISP of Google's servers, doesn't mean they have a right to charge Google to allow people to connect to them. Nor should they have the right to charge their normal customers an extra "Google fee" in order to connect to Google.

I am not a fan of having every ISP in the world charging Blizzard a fee to have customers be able to connect to the WoW servers. Nor am I a fan of having to pay an extra fee to my ISP for the privilege of connecting to the WoW servers. I have paid for my internet connection. I have paid my WoW fees. Why should I have an extra "WoW fee" on top of my normal internet bill?

Do you see where I am going with this?

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

I'm pretty much a free market guy myself but in the case of ISPs, a lot of people don't have any choice.  It's either go with the single provider in your area or you don't have internet.  Not an option for me as I depend on my internet connection for all my freelance work.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Personally, I think the FCC needs to be stripped of everything except what they were implemented for. Licensing airwaves.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

I'm a huge ECA supporter, I'm all about the consumer but what ever happened to keeping government out of games?

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

There is a huge difference between the government saying, "You can't sell certain games to minors" or "You can't make games with such and such content" and the government stepping in to stop a major anti-consumer practice. The ECA is here to protect the game consumer. Right now the ECA has involved their members in sending letters to the heads of major ISPs in order to voice our displeasure with bandwidth caps. I am sure they will do the same for Net Neutrality.

But the ECA is not afraid to involve the government when it is necessary to protect the consumer. You shouldn't either. The government is not evil. If they decide to take things too far, we can still change the government and put pressure on them. That is one of the beauties of Checks and Balances. Not only do every branch of the government keep the others in line, we as the people keep them in line as well.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

When in history was government not evil? Especially in the United States of America. Give me a time period so I can tell you exactly how evil the government was then and why.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

And when in history weren't both corporations and individuals evil? Every social, governmental, and business structure is made up of people who are to some extend greedy, power-grubbing bastards. You need to take a step back and realize you're dealing with humans; everything is going to be evil and corrupt to some extent. Taking a completely laissez fair approach to business has been historically shown to be bad for everyone except the business owners.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

It's easy to blame "the man" for everything that's wrong in the world. It's also easy to call something or someone you disagree with "evil"; just look at current US foreign policy in the Middle East. Do you really want to stoop to the Bush administration's level of binary thinking?

You might want to get that tinfoil hat of yours adjusted, it seems to be a little too tight.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

It is unfortunate that you call someone who reads about history a "conspiracy theorist".  So because I choose to read about history suddenly in your eyes I'm perscribe to conspiracy theories.  It is an interesting idea both you and EZK express(One without merit).

This theory remains true thus far, when people run out of ways to insult your ideas they will begin insulting you. I believe it is a sign of weakness and reflects poorly not on the website and, if I didn't know better, on anyone affiliated with the website.  There goes my conspiracy theories again, what am I thinking?

I sometimes manage to trick myself into believing that GP readers are a bit different than those on other blogs/websites but that theory continues to get shot down.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

"So because I choose to read about history suddenly in your eyes I'm perscribe to conspiracy theories.  It is an interesting idea both you and EZK express(One without merit)."

No, you're a conspiracy theorist because you think that all government is evil by design. That's pretty much the definition of it. Sorry to break it to you.

"There goes my conspiracy theories again, what am I thinking?"

I dunno, that the entire world's out to get you? That fluoride in the water is government mind control? That you're under surveillance 24/7? You tell me, you're the nutter.

"I sometimes manage to trick myself into believing that GP readers are a bit different than those on other blogs/websites but that theory continues to get shot down."

Get over yourself. If you want people to take you seriously, try approaching the conversation rationally. Here's a hint: "good" and "evil" are entirely subjective.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Let's see...You think the government is inherently evil. You do not trust the government to be able to look after the interests of its citizens faurly. You think that there is always a hidden agenda in everything that it does.

I read history as well. I know that the government has done a lot of bad things. But I also know that the government hsas done a lot of good. Just because you can point out something "evil" the government has done for every day in the country's existence doesn't prove you point. It just makes you sound like a conspiracy theorist.

Just because I choose not to play your little game and label you as you come accross, does not mean I am weak or out of options. It just means I don't want to run around in circles on the topic.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Is it really THAT much of a stretch to think government is inherently evil.

Now when I say evil I don't mean cartoony-super-villian-try-to-do-harm-to-people-evil, I mean selfish-greedy-only-give-a-damn-about-themselves-evil.

Think about it if you were a power-hungry individual what would you try to do for a living to increase your power?

You can try running a large business, start your own religion, or run for office.

The government has no real competition , if a company was screwing you over with faulty products, bad price or whatever you can switch brands.

If you want to switch governments you can either try to get other people into office, start a revolution or move. None of which are particularly easy.

I'm sure there's some people out there with the best of intentions who are perfectly competent, not misguided and can't be bribed etc. but given the massive size of the government I doubt there was ever a point in recent history where the government was filled with nothing but those people.

When giving the government power I think you should always ask

'what if the government became incompetent, corrupt ot evil (evil being defined earlier)'?

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

You conspiracy theorists are only fun for a short time. I don't think I can convince you into beliving anything I say about the government.

I recognize that it has its flaws. But they can be fixed. Yes they have broken quite a few things but that does not negate any of the good they have done and will do.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I enjoying reading history books.  There is a huge difference.  You might be able to convince me to reconsider in terms of improving the government's image but you'd have to provide me with some solid proof and would likely involve me doing some more reading.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate...

But also a potential censor as well:

http://www.abajournal.com/news/obama_reportedly_set_to_name_harvard_buddy_as_fcc_chairman

He is a founding board member of Common Sense Media

Taking a wait and see approach on this guy. I'm just glad that Obama didn't choose one of the existing commissioners, especially the biggest would-be censor of all, Michael Copps.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate...

Good find man, not to get off topic here but is it unfair to speculate about the Fairness Doctrine rearing its ugly head under this guys watch?

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Boo Net Neutrality.  I think this is actually bad news for gamers in the long run.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

This is one of the rare cases where government intervention is necessary.

Three reasons

  1. Cable and phone companies use government right of way on private property to run their lines, or they get access to lines initially installed by the government.

  2. These services rarely overlap, or they have negotiated contracts with cities that provide them exclusivity.

  3. The current system is broken and the cable and phone companies have no reason to change because there is no effective competition.

However they use government property. Net neutrality legislation is the only thing that is going to fix this problem.

 

 

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

So why is net neutrality nessicary again?  Why not attempt to solve, or make room to solve those three issues you expressed?

I don't think those are good enough reasons to say its is nessicary.  It definitely isn't 'nessicary'.  I still think that it can be done without government intervention.  There is no reason it couldn't be.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

It would be nice if we could solve those issues. AS it stands though, we can't. I like to use me as an example and my Mom as well. I live in an area where we have only one interenet provider. This provider charges us more money for less service than other ISPs in surrounding towns. So for what ATT charges for 6Mbps we get 1.5Mbps. There is nothing I can do but pay the obscene price for crappy service. 

Ifthis ISP decided they don't like certain services eating up their limited bandwidth, they could charge either us the customer for access to these services or the provider of said service. There would be nothing that customers of these services can do as we have no other ISP to turn to. ATT or Cox won't come to the area because there is not enough population density for them to justify the expense. So We would be stuck.

So our only choices are 1) deal with it. 2) Go without 3) Get the government to intervene.

1) is a bad deal for the customer. 2) is a bad deal for people who rely on internet for their income. 3) is the only real option here.

There is also the problem of ISPs charging service providers access to their bandwidth. IF every ISP in the world is charging an extra fee on top of the T3 connection fee, those charges can really add up.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

If it is your job, then fine.  But allowing the government to intervene is screwing everyone.  I prefer 2 for all who can afford it.

Relying on the government is always the worst thing to do in my eyes.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

The government is there to look after and protect the citizens. Sure they have lost sight of that in many respects, but that is still their primary purpose.

2 isn't a real bad option, but people have come to rely on that service. It is almost a utility. As time moves forward, it will become a utility as most everything will be broadcast over an internet connection.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Interfering with markets in this manner isn't protecting citizens.  Taking away property rights from citizens isn't protecting citizens.

Government is here to uphold the constitution and to use the military to be sure we are properly defended.

Now government is involved in everything and they are doing more harm to us than any other entity.  They are ruining education, especially in our own history.  Most students learn about Woodrow Wilson and kind of perceive him as a hero but he might have been the most racist president we ever had and was largely responsible for the rise of the KKK in the 20's.  Also Hellen Keller was a communist, which is fine but you'll never read it in a textbook in a public school even though it is absolutely true and I bet she would want everyone to know it and why.

When has the government been looking after the people?  I can't really recall.  Instead they look only to protect and expand their power wherever and whenever possible.

The government's actual job is to mislead the people and to attempt to create a mold for everyone to fit into.  You can pretend that their primary purpose is to look after you but that wouldn't at all be true.

But it is supposed to be the people's job to be sure the government is in line and doesn't have too much power over the people.  But people would rather the incompetent government do whatever.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

If you don't want government 'interfering' with buisness practices on the behalf of the consumer, then you should also be against the anti-monopoly laws. As those laws also 'interfere' on the behalf of the consumer.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

 Yup, that's the fact of life... companies are run by a lot of greedy bastards that just want to bleed as much money out of us as possible... Government intervention is necessary in this regard because if companies were free to do whatever they like they WILL abuse that freedom to know end

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

I'm sorry, but what?

Fine simple terms.

Any private entity that can come on my property tear up my yard or run over my grandfathers feed pastures without asking me permission before hand needs to be regulated by the government.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Why?  Why can't you just say no and shoot them?  I think that would also be a fair action.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Because the government has right of way 4 to ???ft on the side of the road. So they can put in things like side walks and water mains.

The government also grants the right to these companies, so the asshole who lives next door can't be a dick and not let you get internet service.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

All these arguments you provide have alternative solutions that do not include net neutrality.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Fine then, what are alternative solutions?

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Begin stripping the government of these powers they hold over your property.

You have got to respect private property and if someone doesn't want someone ruining their property then they should have that right.

If you want cable and your asshole neighboor doesn't want to ruin his property so you can enjoy that service well then you should have to work out a deal with your neighboor.  It might include paying for all the damages done to his property FOR YOU but that is only fair.

Regulation of the internet is not the answer. Introducing regulation commonly invites future regulation.

ISPs have some terrible plans in store but regulating them isn't the answer.  There is always a way to screw business and you do that by taking away their money.  Or at least threatening to do so.  What would they do if a million people decided to go 3 months without the internet and did so with a reason.  I bet you they would change things really quickly.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Cable? More like water, power, phone, and gas.

But lets follow your line of thinking. Lets removing zoning laws, building codes, and all municipal utilities.

Fuck it lets get rid of roads while we are at it.

Enjoy the chemical plant next to your house.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Getting a million people to do something at the same time is not as easy as it looks. Shoot, 3rd parties have a nearly impossible time getting 48k signatures to get on an election ballot. How would you get 1mil to actually do something more than sign a piece of paper.

I agree that if people actually had convictions we wouldn't need the government, but as it stands, there is not enough collective conviction in the populous to get businesses to change their anti consumer policies.

I should also add, what do you do after the 3months of no internet and the ISPs take back those promises to change. Do it all over again? You will start a perpetual cycle that will end in disaster.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Its not a perfect idea but it is certainly better than just giving up and allowing the government to intervene.  Thats like saying "we're getting screwed so everyone has to get screwed now."  Sorry but the government isn't your friend.

You have to take money away from these ISPs and give it to ones that have decent policies.  When the consumer is unhappy about a certain policy a business not yet involved is going to see that as an opportunity to take that consumer's business for themselves.  I trust the market will properly deal with this.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

There are no other ISP's; broadband is not like dial up, with its common carriage rules that allow any ISP to use the telephone companies lines for a specific rate. Those who build it, sell it, and no one else has access. This is not terrible, per se, as long as those who own the pipes don't try to use it to discriminate against certain traffic just because its not one of their own "bundled" services. And thats the reality; the bandwidth size of most of the services broadband infrastructure owners complain about, are hardly the huge dent that they claim. More over, if they hadn't want anyone to actually USE the bandwidth sizethey marketed to consumers, they shouldn't have done so, or they should charge more if they feel they're not compensated enough. But this nickel and dime shit is ridiculous, and this attempt to get extra monthly fee's  and rates by signing up people with artificially deflated monthly rates, only to hit them for "premium access" is flat out fraudulent.

 

 

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

I got a better idea, net neutrality, its far easier to maintain. I have a life to live besides fighting the gov't and ISPs all day >.<

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Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

because the government is so far up everyone's ass that we have to stand down to them.  Again, weakness on the average man, and more power to government and business.  The more rights we give to the government and big business the less we will have for ourselves.

BTW, no need to be a jackass and insult my intelligence.  =)

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

Soo, internet providers being able to add as much as they see fit to your bill if you use XBL or play WoW is somehow a good thing?

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

No, government intervention is terrible.  Why are we so dependent upon government intervention?  It makes the consumer look weak and invites government to feel more comfortable with other proposals for the regulation of games/internet.

Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

And how exactly is the consumer supposed to "fight" net neutrality? What other providers are we supposed to go to if not the individuals whom own the pipes themselves, and the one's who effectively control the data that flows on them. Unless you happen to have billions of dollars to duplicate such infrastructure in a private manner, or an effective alternative for wide-spread internet access that avoids their systems in toto, we ARE reliant on change of regulations to be able to have decent access.


Re: Obama's Choice to Chair FCC is Net Neutrality Advocate

 

"No, government intervention is terrible. "
 
I've always found statements like this funny. Technically speaking, isn't the government's purpose to represent what the people want? It's up to everyone to let their representative know what they want or don't want them to do.
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
 
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Matthew Wilsonthe issue is when is doesn't work it can screw over millions in new york city's case. more often than not it is better to let the free market run its course without market distortion.04/16/2014 - 9:36am
NeenekoTrue, and overdone stagnation is a problem. It is a tricky balance. It does not help that when it does work, no one notices. Most people here have benifited from rent controls and not even realized it.04/16/2014 - 9:23am
ZippyDSMleehttp://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/04/15/riaa_files_civil_suit_against_megaupload04/16/2014 - 8:48am
ZippyDSMleeEither way you get stagnation as people can not afford the prices they set.04/16/2014 - 8:47am
Neenekowell, specifically it helps people already living there and hurts people who want to live there instead. As for 'way more hurt', majorities generally need less legal protection. yes it hurt more people then it helped, it was written for a minority04/16/2014 - 8:30am
MaskedPixelantehttp://torrentfreak.com/square-enix-drm-boosts-profits-and-its-here-to-stay-140415/ Square proves how incredibly out of touch they are by saying that DRM is the way of the future, and is here to stay.04/16/2014 - 8:29am
james_fudgeUnwinnable Weekly Telethon playing Metal Gear http://www.twitch.tv/rainydayletsplay04/16/2014 - 8:06am
ConsterTo be fair, there's so little left of the middle class that those numbers are skewing.04/16/2014 - 7:42am
Matthew Wilsonyes it help a sub section of the poor, but hurt both the middle and upper class. in the end way more people were hurt than helped. also, it hurt most poor people as well.04/16/2014 - 12:13am
SeanBJust goes to show what I have said for years. Your ability to have sex does not qualify you for parenthood.04/15/2014 - 9:21pm
NeenekoSo "worked" vs "failed" really comes down to who you think is more important and deserving04/15/2014 - 7:04pm
NeenekoThough I am also not sure we can say NYC failed. Rent control helped the people it was intended for and is considered a failure by the people it was designed to protect them from.04/15/2014 - 7:04pm
NeenekoIf they change the rules, demand will plummet. Though yeah, rent control probably would not help much in the SF case. I doubt anything will.04/15/2014 - 1:35pm
TheSmokeyOnline gamer accused of murdering son to keep playing - http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2014/04/15/21604921.html04/15/2014 - 11:50am
Matthew Wilsonyup, but curent city rules do not allow for that.04/15/2014 - 11:00am
ZippyDSMleeIf SF dose not start building upwards then they will price people out of the aera.04/15/2014 - 10:59am
Matthew Wilsonthe issue rent control has it reduces supply, and in SF case they already has a supply problem. rent control ofen puts rent below cost, or below profit of selling it. rent control would not fix this issue.04/15/2014 - 10:56am
NeenekoRent control is useful in moderation, NYC took it way to far and tends to be held up as an example of them not working, but in most cases they are more subtle and positive.04/15/2014 - 10:24am
PHX CorpBeating Cancer with Video Games http://mashable.com/2014/04/14/steven-gonzalez-survivor-games/04/15/2014 - 9:21am
Matthew Wilsonwhat are you saying SF should do rent control, that has never worked every time it has been tried. the issue here is a self inflicted supply problem imposed by stupid laws.04/15/2014 - 8:52am
 

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