The New York legislature has a fondness for video game legislation, it would seem.
Last year New York became the first state since 2006 to pass a video game bill and have it signed into law by its Governor. The New York video game statute lacks teeth, however, and the video game industry has not opposed it.
As GamePolitics reported earlier this month, Assemblyman Keith L.T. Wright (D) introduced a bill aimed at shielding minors from games containing profanity and racist stereotypes.
In addition, Assemblyman Brian Kolb (R) has submitted A2837, which seeks to block minors from any game that "glamorizes... the commission of a violent crime, suicide, sodomy, rape, incest, bestiality, or sado-masochism..."
Kolb's bill also requires warning labels on such games; violators would be subject to both civil and criminal penalties. Fines of $1,000 are spelled out in the bill.
But Kolb isn't finished - not by a long shot. Retailers would be required to keep such games either in an area "inaccessible by the general public" or "in a sealed and locked container."
Retailers would also be mandated to make copies of the offending games available for examination by parents.
A similar measure proposed by Kolb in 2007 failed to move out of committee.
GP: While Assemblyman Kolb no doubt has good intentions, his legislation clearly has constitutional issues. For example, deciding whether a game "glamorizes" any of the activities enumerated by Kolb would seem to be a highly subjective endeavor.
Comments
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Yes, many stores do keep their games locked in glass cases, but its not to restrict it from minors. Its to prevent theft. I personally hate it myself. I won't shop for games at a Wal-Mart becaue its apain in the ass to ask the clerks to open it every few minutes so i can take a closer look at a game.
I vastly prefer gamestops method of doing things. They do indeed keep games behind the counter, but once again it is no to keep it from minors, its to prevent theft, contrary to what salty aka Jacky has said. With their open box system, I can easily look at the descriptions on games without harassing the staff, and they even leave the instruction manuals inside so I can get a good idea of what I'm buying before hand. To effectively shop for games at stores with glass displays, you have to know what you want already. I dunno about others, but I'm not always up to date on every new release and what they are about. I like to browse the selection before buying, and I can't do that when things are locked away.
So basically, even ignoring the entire consitutionality issue here, I wouldn't want this law just because it would be inconvenient for me to have to prove I'm old enough to look at 17+ games. Even if it was passed, so what? Parents will buy them for the kids, or the kids themselves will just buy them online or from friends. This law will do nothing, even if it was passed, besides make shopping a bitch for the legitimate people. It's actually a fairly small number of people that are able to buy games when they aren't old enough, especially if they shop at a reputable place like gamestop.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
But, in your travels and observations, watch closely WHAT is put in cases.
Are ALL video games, no matter what the rating, put in the cases or only those of certain ratings?
It's an individual (or company's) store policy which can vary from store to store. Even franchise stores may have seperate policies based on the state they are in.
Wilmington, NC, for example:
WalMart sells DVDs of both movies and TV shows.
They are all on regular shelves.
But, occassionally, you'll find special security wiring around, most often, new releases and compilations. There is, however, no policy on the sale of rated material, even Uncut items.
Computer games are also sold on the shelves, in the open, like the DVDs.
Video games, however, are ALL in cases. No matter what their rating.
But they don't do NC-17 or videos. OR unrated "adult" videos, such as Playboy Calendar or the kind of thing you'd see on Cinemax late night.
The EB Games/Gamestop here obviously specialize in video/computer games and all their games, no matter what the rating, are on the public shelves. They have the checkout cases and the cases behind the checkout, but they contain specialty items and collector's items.
Of course,t hey don't sell AO rated material either.
Then, we have teh DVD/video specialty stores like SunCoast. They sell all their videos/DVDs on shelves. AND they sell the NC-17 videos, like Playboy calendar and the Cinemax late night movies, and they are also on the shelves, with opaque seperators sitting in front of them but still accessible.
Each person has their own experience with various companies and various policies and laws.
The fact is, I've always said I don't need any individual, organization or government entity dictating to me what is or is not appropriate for myself or my child.
The rating systems aren't dictating to me. They are informing me of what specific products contain.
The store's aren't dictating to me what is or is not appropriate for myself or my child. They are setting policies to respect the desires of the Parents who may feel that some product is not appropriate for their child.
But the purpose of the legislatures is to open doors to make anything any one individual or organization deems "inappropriate" become the rule for everyone else to follow, even if they don't share the same beliefs.
After all, I find a great deal that specific relgiions expose children to to be bigotted, dishonorable, unethical, obscene, and potentially "harmful to minors" (not only to those being taught but to their future victims as well) as well as inappropriate for children.
While the Constitution states that no law can be made to respect one religion over another (thereby deeming one religious sect more "appropriate" and less harmful than another), one could argue that in an effort to "protect the children" from "harmful and obscene material", legislation should be drafted to "protect the children" from ALL religious teachings and potential "harm".
It all sounds well meaning until those same folks who are "well meaning" restrict EVERYTHING, from media products to even average speech, to "protect the children" from "harmful material". Obscenity is, after all, in the eye of the beholder. And I'll gaurantee you I would have been making this same argument had I been an adult when the suggestion that there be a "community standards" policy and law enforced. That did nothing but grant individuals, organizations, and government officials to blank check power to dictate anything and everything they wanted just by the threat of envoking "community standards" for the purpose of banning and/or censoring anything and everything they wanted to. While many stand up to such nonsense as "community standards", much has been lost to it as well.
And these laws, seemingly well meaning, are just an extention of such nonsense.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Thank you, RabidChinaGirl. It takes a female to see through all this "everything is unconstitutional" nonsense. First of all, you are correct, a number of game retailers already sequester their "M" games.
As to working with parents, that is being done. What the retailers, many of them, are still doing is selling M games to kids with no parent in sight. If a parent is educated but not there, how is the parent part of the sale? That's the problem. The sequestering of the product makes the age enforcement more likley. This legislator dude is not restricting sales. he's facilitating sales of mature games to mature buyers--someone 17 and over.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
"What the retailers, many of them, are still doing is selling M games to kids with no parent in sight."
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/05/secretshop.shtm It's easier to buy an R-Rated movie than an M-rated game. How do you explain that?
Fail comment is fail.
http://treasurebin.blogspot.com Game reviews from the bottom of the bargain bin
Treasure bin: Cult Hits, chea pass gaming options, and rants about gaming in general
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
**Quote: saulytarsus** Thank you, RabidChinaGirl. It takes a female to see through all this "everything is unconstitutional" nonsense. First of all, you are correct, a number of game retailers already sequester their "M" games. ****
Did you even read what she wrote? She's clearly referring to the transparent display cases we've been discussing all along -- you know, the anti theft measures that still allow minors, and everyone else, to look at the game cases.
And I find commenting on gender uncalled for. I'm a woman too, and I think this law is as unconstitutional as hell. Must be lacking in feminine simplicity, huh?
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
And once the parent finds out that the child bought said game they have every right to take it away from them. All you are promoting is a crutch for lazy parents.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Sorry Jack, your vigilante sample sizes of 1 don't prove a damn thing. You yourself said that about every other person you talk to on this site. Math doesn't hold its tongue for you or anyone else.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
"This legislator dude is not restricting sales."
Yes, he is.
"AN ACT to amend the general business law, in relation to prohibiting the sale or rental of certain video games, which are pornographic or promote violence or illegal drug use, to minors..."
Andrew Eisen
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Was Frank Zappa right about age ratings being a Trojan Horse or not, Andrew?
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
I'm unaware of any issue the music industry has had with content labels but I don't follow that industry and am unfamiliar with Frank Zappa.
Having said that, if he said an industry would rue the day it implemented a voluntary rating system then so far he's wrong as far as the video game industry is concerned.
Andrew Eisen
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Forgot to add, he said that a rating system for music would be a trojan horse, because of the lack of anything other than ideas to work with, there's no imagery.
It should also be noticed in the same testimony that it was generally accepted that a voluntary system was the best way of approaching any kind of rating system...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YZW3TazHW3E
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Have you seen one of David Alan Coe's albums? Just listing the titles here would probably get someone banned.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Hmmmm Jack's favourite artist according to him....
Frank Zappa was also one of the main supporters of refusing to censor media. To quote him...
'I do believe that a Buzz-saw between someone's legs on an album cover is a pretty good indiciation that it's not for little Johnny'.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Nope, he's restricting physical access by the class of people that the industry itself says should not buy them to the product. Are you saying, Andrew, and this is what it comes down to, that a 12-year-old should be able to buy GTA IV without a parent in sight? Please answer.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
I know you asked Andrew this, but I'll answer.
YES!
Now, this may sound odd, but I think that a 12 year old should be able to buy GTA... legally speaking. I think any store that did so purposely would deserve the bad PR it got as a result, and the loss of sales it would certainly suffer from boycotts, etc.
But I do not think the government should get involved in this. In my mind, obscenity laws already can be abused in unfortunate cases at times. I don't think we should expand the government's powers in that area at all.
Since GTA is not considered obscene under current laws, then there should be no laws prohibiting its sale in any way. Period. That's my view at least.
On a side note, try to be patient. People can't be expected to always answer you in mere seconds, oftentimes we might be busy and you may not get any replies for hours even.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
A 12-year-old has the right to buy GTA.
The retailer has the right to refuse the sale.
The parents have the right to tell the child no.
The gov't cannot make a law denying a 12-year-old access to protected speech.
Andrew Eisen
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
IMO, locking the games I'd likely buy away is just a pain in my ass. And it's unconstitutional.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
On what basis is it "unconstitutonal," Hitodama? Please cite a case.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Read above. And still, Why should I have to show my ID before I've even shopped? Your incessant rambling bores me.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Why? You've always ignored cites before when I've thrown them at you by the bushelfull.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
And all the adult customer has to do is present his age ID and then peruse the materials. Very simple. That solves the adult access to adult materials problem. Next question, please.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Next question? Okay then. Why should the video game industry have its ratings have any sort of legal weight whatsoever when the MPAA and movie industry have had a voluntary system with no force of law for some 80+ years? Why should one industry be singled out from the rest? Oh yeah, I forgot. Its the current scapegoat.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Wrong again, Saulytarsus. As Justice Thurgood Marshall stated in striking down a federal ban on mailing unsolicited advertisements for contraceptives, “The level of discourse reaching a mailbox simply cannot be limited to that which would be suitable for a sandbox.” Bolger v. Youngs Drug Products Corp, 463 U.S. 60 (1983).
Likewise, as the Arkansas case demonstrates, one cannot require retail shelves to only carry material suitable for the youngest ages. That would place on impermissible burden on the adult who wishes to access the material.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
This is from the Texas Code. Note that it contains a shield and sequestration provision, underlined. Same thing they want to do in New York. Constitutional, sorry guys:
Sec.
A43.24.AASALE, DISTRIBUTION, OR DISPLAY OF HARMFULA (a)AAFor purposes of this section:AA"Minor" means an individual younger than 18 years.AA"Harmful material" means material whose dominantAAappeals to the prurient interest of a minor,AAis patently offensive to prevailingAAis utterly without redeeming social value forAAA person commits an offense if, knowing that theAAand knowing the person is a minor, he sells,AAhe displays harmful material and is reckless about
MATERIAL TO MINOR.
(1)
(2)
theme taken as a whole:
6
(A)
in sex, nudity, or excretion;
(B)
standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is
suitable for minors; and
(C)
minors.
(b)
material is harmful:
(1)
distributes, exhibits, or possesses for sale, distribution, or
exhibition to a minor harmful material;
(2)
whether a minor is present who will be offended or alarmed by the
display;
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Try reading that JT.
"Harmful material" means material whose dominantAAappeals to the prurient interest of a minor
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
And for the benefit of Jacko who I severly doubt knows the meaning of the word prurient.
Aka, the material has to provoke feelings of lust. How does he like those apples I wonder?
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
That's for materials harmful to minors. Video games are not.
Andrew Eisen
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Not harmful to minors? Then why does the industry label them as inappropriate for someone under 17? Because they're too heavy and they might give themselves a hernia if they pick up a copy of GTA IV?
Come on, Andrew. Frank Zappa warned the music industry 20 years ago that age rating products was a trap and that it would rue the day it put PMRC stickers, voluntarily on its products.
The ESRB has created that same trap for video games. If you age rate and restrict a product you are actually admitting, by the rating and labeling and age checking that it is verboten for someone under 17. Otherwise, why rate it?
It would have been far, far smarter for the industry to dig in its heels and refuse to age rate, and then it would not now be the trap it is in. Obama is going to spring that trap and various states are as well in the next few months. Just watch. Dumb ESRB, very dumb.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
You seem to be missing the fact that the MPAA has been age rating movies for around eighty or so years. And all of this without any force of law. Now I know you have a hard time wrapping your brain around "informative ratings" as opposed to them being a manner of increased governmental control in our lives. But that would be due to completely ignoring the standard set by the movie industry.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Games hasn´t been tagged as harmful by any real goverment institution, except for dumb-watchdogs groups and conservative-religious groups and stupid people as you... and there are not enough videogames with sex, nude, homosexuality, racism or even bestiality to start.
Stop trolling, Jack. You look like a dumb.
The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
You're wrong. You're making the same flawd arguments that Jack Thompson makes.
The ESRB ratings do not say that a video game is harmful to minors. An M rating does not mean that a video game is obscene.
All the ratings are, are suggestions. The ESRB basically says, "we think that many parents won't want kids under 17 to see this." The ESRB's opinions are, legally speaking, no different than those of a random person off the street. Legally speaking, if the government found some random drunk on the street, told him to slap some ratings on a couple video game boxes, and then said that is was going to enforce those decisions by law, it would be no different than enforcing the ESRB ratings.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
"Then why does the industry label them as inappropriate for someone under 17?"
It doesn't.
You don't seem to understand the ESRB ratings and what they're actually for.
From the ESRB:
"The Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) ratings are designed to provide concise and impartial information about the content in computer and video games so consumers, especially parents, can make an informed purchase decision. ESRB ratings have two equal parts: rating symbols suggest age appropriateness for the game and content descriptors indicate elements in a game that may have triggered a particular rating and/or may be of interest or concern."
Andrew Eisen
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
That post's win level... IS OVER 9,000!!! (Sorry, I just couldn't resist...
)
"Video Games Rule, Jack Thompson Drools"
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
That's obscenity. M rated video games and R rated movies don't count as obscenity. And all attempts to equate them have failed so far.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Wrong, Andrew. R-rated movies are restricted to consumers over 17. Been to a Blockbuster lately? You think that a movie is not speech but a video game is?
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Use the reply button please.
And you're confusing law with store policy.
Andrew Eisen
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Answer me, Andrew: You think a video game is speech but a movie is not?
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Both movies and games are speech.
And I just called Gamestop. They do not sequester games behind the counter or in a glass case based on the game's content.
Andrew Eisen
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Ok,they're both speech. So how can a state restrict the "speech" in a movie to age groups but not "speech" in games? Just because the ESA (see Dennis' earlier article) throws $4.2 million around?
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
You just lost. The state has not restricted movies by age groups. MPAA = No force of law.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
It doesn't Jack, as you well know, both use voluntary systems.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
It doesn't. Let me repeat myself: there are no laws restricting movie content to certain age groups specifically.
There are laws regarding "obscenity". These laws could apply to any work, be it movies or games, and are generally pretty limited. No M rated game or R rated movie would ever be considered obscene.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Simple. It doesn't.
Andrew Eisen
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Answer me, Andrew: You think a game is speech but a movie is not? Movies are restricted in sales and rentals to kids under 17 by law.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Again, they are both speech.
And no, movie sales are not restricted to minors by law.
Andrew Eisen
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Maybe it would be a good idea, Andrew, to check laws before you start telling everyone here they don't exist. See immediate above state statute.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Maybe you should read the law closely before you say they do exist.
Re: NY Bill Might Keep Nasty Games in a Locked Container
Wrong again Andrew. here's a state code provision that penalizes admission of a minor into a movie:
1847.013 Exposing minors to harmful motion pictures, exhibitions, shows, presentations, or representations.--
(1) "KNOWINGLY" DEFINED.--As used in this section "knowingly" means having general knowledge of, reason to know, or a belief or ground for belief which warrants further inspection or inquiry of both:
(a) The character and content of any motion picture described herein which is reasonably susceptible of examination by the defendant, or the character of any exhibition, presentation, representation, or show described herein, other than a motion picture show, which is reasonably susceptible of being ascertained by the defendant; and
(b) The age of the minor.
(2) MINOR'S AGE.--A person's ignorance of a minor's age, a minor's misrepresentation of his or her age, a bona fide belief of a minor's age, or a minor's consent may not be raised as a defense in a prosecution for a violation of this section.
(3) OFFENSES AND PENALTIES.--
(a) A person may not knowingly exhibit for a monetary consideration to a minor or knowingly sell or rent a videotape of a motion picture to a minor or knowingly sell to a minor an admission ticket or pass or knowingly admit a minor for a monetary consideration to premises whereon there is exhibited a motion picture, exhibition, show, representation, or other presentation which, in whole or in part, depicts nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, sexual battery, bestiality, or sadomasochistic abuse and which is harmful to minors.
(b) A person may not knowingly rent or sell, or loan to a minor for monetary consideration, a videocassette or a videotape of a motion picture, or similar presentation, which, in whole or in part, depicts nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, sexual battery, bestiality, or sadomasochistic abuse and which is harmful to minors.
(c) The provisions of paragraph (a) do not apply to a minor when the minor is accompanied by his or her parents or either of them.
(d) A minor may not falsely represent to the owner of any premises mentioned in paragraph (a), or to the owner's agent, or to any person mentioned in paragraph (b), that the minor is 17 years of age or older, with the intent to procure the minor's admission to such premises, or the minor's purchase or rental of a videotape, for a monetary consideration.
(e) A person may not knowingly make a false representation to the owner of any premises mentioned in paragraph (a), or to the owner's agent, or to any person mentioned in paragraph (b), that he or she is the parent of any minor or that any minor is 17 years of age or older, with intent to procure the minor's admission to the premises or to aid the minor in procuring admission thereto, or to aid or enable the minor's purchase or rental of a videotape, for a monetary consideration.