T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts Record Sales

January 29, 2009 -

Can someone explain this to me?

Wasn't it just yesterday that video game industry trade group the Entertainment Software Association issued a press release high-fiving itself over record sales of game software in 2008?

Why then, today, do we learn that GTA publisher Take-Two Interactive is griping about used game sales?

Here's what the ESA said yesterday about its record-breaking year:

Overall computer and video game industry hardware, software and peripheral sales climbed to $22 billion in 2008, with entertainment software sales comprising $11.7 billion of that total figure—a 22.9% jump over the previous year— the Entertainment Software Association (ESA) announced today... on the strength of a December sales month in which industry revenue ($5.3 billion) topped $5 billion for the first time in any single month. By comparison, as recently as 1997, the industry generated $5.1 billion over the entire year...

And here's T2 CEO Ben Feder (left) whining (via Cowen analyst Doug Creutz) today:

"GameStop continues to aggressively push their used game business, which is having a meaningful negative impact on sales of new games," noted analyst Doug Creutz, following a meeting with Take-Two CEO Ben Feder this week.

"Management is frustrated with this trend and is examining ways to ameliorate the problem, which includes strategies around online play and downloadable content which extend the lifespan of AAA titles."

GP: We have to ask: how "meaningful" can the supposed "negative impact" of used game sales be with game publishers having just completed their best year ever?

Or, is this another case of a greedy media corporation trying to squeeze every last nickel out of its customers?

UPDATE: I should make it clear that "whining" is my characterization of Ben Feder's position. Doug Creutz merely reports on Feder's concerns in an investor's note detailing his Tuesday meeting with the T2 CEO.


Comments

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Game retail prices are general dictated by the console manufacturer. The ygive some leway to the publisher but for the most part, the maximum price is set. PC is mostly dictated by comparison to their console counterparts.

Sony and Microsoft felt because they have such expensive tech, the price of games needed to go up to compensate. Thus the $60 price tag.

Nintendo felt that in order to retain the mass market friendly price, they stuck with $50.

PC had no real change besides the general incremental changes of hardware and kept the $50 price tag.

Now if Microsoft and Sony both decided that their consoles were profitable enough to handle a lower price in games, retailers will oblige. The same would happen if Nintendo decided to lower their price.

No retailer I have ever been to has raised a price above MSRP and kept it that way for long. They are usually pressured to lower it below MSRP in order to stay competitive with those who are already at that level.

So I think you are over estimating whatis needed to lower the overall price of games.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Atlus and NIS seem to have no problem with that, and they aren't large publishers.

 

 

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Atlus and NIS aren't the entire games industry.

To be fair, they are good examples of the sort of thing the games industry should be doing- making a product within the market's means, and pricing it competitively.

The catch is they are both very much niche publishers- their titles don't really represent a very attractive prospect to second-hand retailers. Most of the few people who are going to buy Atlus or NIS games will have bought it in the first week, whereas something more mainstream (like Take Two's output) which might have a slightly longer shelf life gets its less dedicated sales cannibalised.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Buying used games is no different than piracy.  Either way the developers get no money off the game.

--- Official Protector of Videoland!

--- Official Protector of Videoland!

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Throwing in a counter-comparison: Being a murderer is no different from being a cop who has to kill someone in self-defense. Either way you end someone's life.

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

But the stores that sell the games do so you know, it is still creating jobs.  Frankly I found the first time you were beating this drum stupid but now you've made your point so concise it is easy to just be flippant.  Piracy is another word for Theft.  2nd hand sales are an exchange of ownership.  The two are not even closely linked.  That the developer makes no extra cash?  NOT MY PROBLEM.

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Are you serious?  Aside from the things everyone else has mentioned, buying a used game by its very nature shows that the game was purchased before.  The developer made money off that sale.  They shouldn't make money off the used game transaction.  It's nothing like piracy.

Welcome back, by the way.  Nice to see your posts are just as balanced and well-thought out as before.

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Besides what EZK and GRU are saying the only thing  free distribution brings to society  is creativity and money spent on hardware and things they truly love and support all of that shows up in time in mostly good ways. But it dose not directly support the developer even byproxy. However used games are sold from titles that HAVE made the developer money at one time and by support the retail chain and gamer both it supports the developer byproxy


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Actually, that's not entirely true.

When the game was originally purchased, the original product (DVD/CD/disk, container, etc) was paid for and the publisher, developer, etc, received their cut for that specific copy of the game.

Book publishers/authors/etc, clothing manufacturers/designers/etc, furniture manufacturers/designers/etc, even food manufacturers/growers/etc, don't receive anything when a product is resold to a friend, in a yard sale, in a consignment store, on ebay, sold as scrap, or other exchange of ownership.  BTW, you'll notice I mentioned food.  Whether it'a a kid buying lemons and making lemonaide and selling it or someone making receipes and selling their concoctions in a bake sale, or some other way, the manufacturer/grower/etc got all they are going to get when the ingrediants were bought.

Go even further:  Buy a lawnmower, and get paid mowing lawns.

Buy a bicycle and deliver newspapers.

In fact, beyond the initial, and perhaps subscription, licensing fees, if you bought a computer and used it in your place of business, how much extra for your usage of that computer would the manufacturer/developer/etc receive as opposed to the computer being used at home to play computer games?

Whether you trade ownership of an item to gain cash or use the item to earn cash on an ongoing basis, the manufacturer/developer/etc, got all they're going to get from the initial sale.  They aren't entitled to additional income from that specific copy.

Now, it's more difficult to argue this when it applies to non-tangible products.  But when you're talking about physically sold items, then it is far more clear.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

I buy almost all my clothes at thrift stores, mostly the Salvation Army -- I can't justify spending over $100 on a sweater when I can the same item good-as-new for just $6 -- so does that makes me a shoplifter?  After all, the clothing manufacturers aren't getting a cent!

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

So is selling a car second hand car no better than Car-Theft?

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

A second hand car tends to be beaten up, worn out and generally not perform as well as a new car would. Second hand games tend to work as well as new ones- the second hand car analogy isn't comparable.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Already commented this elsewhere in the thread, but in the long run second-hand games in fact DO decrease in value. Not just because of quality (reliability, support, amount of players to multiplay with) going down, but also because of standards going up. Better graphical engines and video cards, better sound, etc.

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

 Really now, we can apply this argument to most any consumer product aside from food...

Selling used toys, books, furniture, clothing and so forth... there's lots of stuff that's sold used but could be as good as the day it was bought originally... hell, people sell items that are in mint condition for multiple times the original worth.

By that reasoning, all of this is considered a form of theft... guess we should go out and arrest anyone who attends a yard sale

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

 I'm not buying used food ever.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Which is why i said "Aside" from food as you would not find it sold used...

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

 Yes, it's called a "joke". :D

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Bullshit.  A secondhand car can be in any condition, just like seconhand games and everything else.

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Let's see. Aside from disk condition as GRU brought up, used games often come without manuals and boxes, or with damaged manuals and boxes.

Sure you can find that information online, but it generally is not the same as having the real thing. Much like aftermarket parts for cars.

While I agree that the car analogy is not 100% completely valid, it does compare as used car sales do impact the sale of new cars. That is why new cars come with warranties and such to get you to buy them.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Second discs tend to be beaten up, scratched on occasion and don't have anything near the life of a second hand car, a car can be sold repeatedly, and can even be repaired by the owner, something game players don't even have a right to do if you take the wording of the DMCA literally.

If anything, second hand games are already more limited in that department.

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

I can tell you none of them are worse than sloppy seconds....

Sortableturnip's Law: As an online discussion of video game violence grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Jack Thompson approaches 1

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

I don't understand people who sell their games. Those things are collectibles!

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts


There are many more sucky games now and with the industry focusing on disposable mass market media new games just do not age well in either price or function(have they patched it yet?...no....).

I like box art and I like owning the game but I refuse to pay more than 25$ a used game now so I pick and chose and add carefully.

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Not as much as you think. Sure those limited release cartidges of the past made some games more valuable to fans. Yet, now that printing and pressing games has become so cheap, there is very few games that have such collectible value at all.

Also, very few people buy games to collect them. Most people buy them to play them.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

So used games are bad eh? then how would you like a 30% cut in new game sales roma  mix of a loss of a huge retailer and from losing gamers that can not afford not selling off old to buy new....

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

I guess I should not tell them that I just bought GTA IV used for $15

~Weatherlight~

~Weatherlight~

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

I'd like to point out that, if Game Stop couldn't sell used games, they'd probably go out of business, and if they could resell used games (by paying a percentage to the game developers), they'd cut corners and drop stores (probably).

I'd also like to point out that, if people can't go out and buy used games from one convinient collection, I'd guess that old games are more likely to probably be forgotten, repackaged with one or two new things as a new game (a la the re-release of Final Fantasy games or, more recently, Chrono Trigger), or pirated more often. Considering that people would want to play the old masterpiece games, the first option is least likely, and some old games are already re-released. I'd bet that people would pirate more often.

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Waaah!! People aren't keeping our games forever. Waaah!! People like to save money. Waaah!! We should be treated differently than every other industry when it comes to First Sale but not when it comes to content regulation. Waaah!

Seriously, that is all I hear. First Sale Doctrine is a fact of physical goods life. Get used to it.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Waaah!! They're trying to take away my used games! Waaah!! People with jobs in videogames would like money to buy food to eat! Waaah!! I might ever have to enter into a give-and-take system rather than just take! Waaah!

Seriously, that is all I hear. We can all twist meanings if we want to.

Certainly as far as the GI.biz article Dennis cites is concerned, Take Two aren't trying to 'take away' the second hand market, just identifying it as a problem their business have to overcome- and it is a problem, as anyone with a passing grasp of economics can see.

The quote isn't "Second hand is a problem, let's legislate against it" (although, yes, some have said it in the past), or "Second hand is a problem, let's stop selling to GameStop" it's "Second hand is a problem, how can we create products that mitigate this issue?"- which is exactly the attitude the industry should be taking.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Bull. What the industry fails to realize is that their consumers don't all have bottomless wallets. Some people resell their old games to buy new ones. If they can't get that resale money, they'll buy fewer games. There are also the people like me who absoultely refuse to pay more then $40 for a game. I either wait until the game goes down in price (meaning the industry gets less) or buy used. If I buy used, the industry doesn't get anything directly from me, but the guy who sold the game to Gamestop probably spent the money buying a new game that the industry did get the money from.\

The video game industry is obviously doing fine especially considering that we're in the middle of an economic crisis. They should be happy that they're making enough money to cover their production costs and turn a little profit.

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

 So you're saying that you'd buy more games if they were cheaper? Funny, that's what I've been saying all along.

Here's the catch: the games industry can't lower prices until new sales increase. New sales can't increase (or can't increase quickly enough to make a difference) for a number of reasons, one of which the T2 exec identifies as- not complains about- the second hand market, something he identifies as something that HE has to change, by improving his product, not something the government has to change by passing laws.

He accepts that he has to do something within the realms of his product offering to do something to give himself the wriggle room to kick off lower pricing- in this case, make new games more attractive than second hand ones.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Of course they can!  Prices aren't based on sales of previous games.  They're based on the amount that maximises profits.  That's what the games industry wants to do.  It's what businesses want to do.  the purpose of a business is to make as much money for the investors as possible.  That's the whole point of developing the game in the first place. 

If they thought they'd make more money doing so prices would drop.  They don't think this.

If the plan works, and people no longer want used games, trhen thre will be no competition.  How will this encourage them to reduce prices?

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

And why can't the game industry lower prices until new sales increase? It seems to me that lowering prices would increase new sales. Somebody has to take the first step, and the game industry would have an easier time organizing and implementing a price drop than the consumers would have organizing a buy new games campaign.

Or the game industry can be happy that they're making money despite the used game market, shut up, and focus on making games. They're breaking even and turning record profits; I don't think they have any room to complain.

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

And new sales are not going to expand at a rate to drop prices until the console war model has been abandon and we have a universal system to buy software for is in place, IMO you are misplacing the damage the cost of hardware dose onto the used market and blaming it for all the issues that come about when you have 3+ sets of costly hardware to upkeep that by itself is spurning prices to rise and keeping it out of mainstream households because people do not want to spend 300$ 3 times to have all the systems so they can chose all the media they want..


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

I agree. Game Developers do deserve to be compensated for their time and talents. So do movie producers and authors. The difference is that although none of those industries like used sales and rentals, movies and authors have stopped publicly complaining about it and have come to terms with the fact there is nothing they can do to stop it.

For once, however, I would like to hear a CEO or whoever whines say something along the lines of "Used games are cutting into new game sales. Here is what we are doing to make new game purchases more appealing to and better for consumers."

Until then all I hear is whining.

Adding DRM that unnaturally limits the resalability of games is not the right way to go.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

>The difference is that although none of those industries like used sales and rentals, movies and authors have stopped publicly complaining about it

But their used markets aren't front and centre, like the games one is. New sales of those media are such that mainstream retail doesn't need used to prop itself up. (Although I am, of course, speaking from a UK-centric perspective here)

>For once, however, I would like to hear a CEO or whoever whines say something along the lines of "Used games are cutting into new game sales. Here is what we are doing to make new game purchases more appealing to and better for consumers."

Then how's about, from the GP article: "online play and downloadable content which extend the lifespan of AAA titles"? Sounds pretty much like what you're looking for. He didn't ask for DRM, and he didn't ask for legislation.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Perhaps you missed the article where game sales are greater than video.

What propping up is needed?

 

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Ask the retailers- the revenue figures are only really relevant to the health of the dev/pub industry, not retail.

What matters in the second hand debate is the profit margins retailers see. Because film studios are able to use their economy of scales to sell discs wholesale cheaper, film retailers can still offer DVDs cheaper than games but still make more profit for themselves for unit.

GameStop do the second hand stuff because they make more money per disc for used than new. If retail made more money per new disc, then their reliance on second hand would be unneeded.

In order for GS' new margins to increase, they either need to increase new game costs higher, or buy at wholesale cheaper. The former isn't going to happen, $60 is, as we know, unpopular as a price. For the latter to happen, the dev/pub industry needs to sell more games to be able to lower their prices via the economy of scales- something they will struggle to do as the second hand market cannibalises their sales.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

They only have 3 choices stop and find a new line of work, lower the over head or consolidate the game hardware into 1 unit to sale all the software for because these issues are far more connected to price and profits than 2nd hand sales.

The trouble is used sales can not and can never be touched, its like saying we are going to ban game/film sales/distribution because those in charge do not like them. Its a slippery slope that should never be touched. You don't want to protect a business model that has to live off of taxes and used merchandise bans to survive if an industry can not survive on tis own merits precived by the public then it needs to die for the sake of progress and innovation because the void will be filled by a better process because thats true capitalism.

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

 >consolidate the game hardware into 1 unit

Total irrelevancy, wouldn't really be in retail's power if it was.

>The trouble is used sales can not and can never be touched

Absolutely and totally incorrect. Again, for the hundredth time:

Take.
Two.
Are.
Not.
Trying.
To.
Ban.
The.
Used.
Market.
They.
Are.
Trying.
To.
Make.
A.
Better.
Product.
So.
That.
You.
Will.
Not.
Want.
To.
Trade.
It.
In.

The second hand market can be basically destroyed if the industry is willing to undermine it. If game prices drop to the point where retail can't offer consumers an attractive price and still sell the game on at a price that is lower than new and still profit, then the second hand market's more or less dead and gone, apart from maybe bargain basement 'complete collection'-type things on eBay. This is has happened with home video already.

However, as long as new sales stay so low, cannibalised as they are by the second hand market, which we have proof of in the comments of this article, then prices are not going to get to this stage.

So instead, Take Two are taking the sensible option of making a game you don't want to trade in, because you're playing it online in the long term/are waiting for DLC.

They are not calling for a legislation.

They are not threatening GameStop with anything.

They are not suing consumers.

You have nothing to complain about.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Its only irrelevant because you are diluted in the opinion  that second hand games is destroying the industry when billoins are spent a eyar on hardware that could easily go into the software side of the equation balancing price,cost and profit.

You can't drive a car thats out of juice (gas or electric) , you can not make better games by saying we will magically change if you buy more product (which has been steadily rising over the years/months),it dose not work like that it never has even if they are making record profits they will not change because it suits them more to create short term products and ride on the small time frame of profits they give them because they well know that consumers will not always buy a real quality product so the industry has chosen the lesser of evil to them and will continue on this path until corporate mentality changes, they will have to lower the over head they will have to bring back proper bug testing they will have to change the very nature of modern gaming in order to lower prices and make it a more profitable industry, however they won't they are seeking to fulfill the whims of adolescents by blowing billions on better 3D bewbs which  costs us all profit and quality loss.

As I have said with the console makers diluting the focus of the industry you can not have lower prices you can not make it more mainstream than ti already is because the very fact you have 3 incompatible hardware systems vying for profit you  damage what can be made be developers and publishers, think of it like this if if the 360 was the solitary standard how much money would be saved on  multi platform work? Not only would developers save billions world wide consumers would save billions world wide and that means billions X billions more  spent on consumer media and goods.

So what ever foolish and incomprehensible train of thought you have about "ZOMG used games are killing the industry!" I completely totally and utterly reject as utter foul  zippy speak(unlike normal zippy speak which is just minorly flawed though bad grammar :P).

I would agree used game damages the industry but whatever damage done is reasonably nullified by people trading in used games for news games and the sales from the places that sale used and new titles.I will also admit I don't have all the answers but to exclaim silly and incomprehensible things is to be just well....zippy...... now do you want to be a zippy?? :P

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts


Not front in center? have you bothered to check and see how many used DVDs are on  Amazon and Ebay? I believe that EB/GS is about the only nation wide retailer that dose sale used media in B/M stores but thats due to it being a effect business model even more so since games are easily 3-5 times the cost of DVDs.
Also another reason why tis not front and center is the CEOs and exces already stopped people from returning a bad title in the 90s they pretty much stopped whining years ago.

You see because of the high price it makes used games that much more lucrative, only old books stores and ma and pa outfits would bother reselling a DVD/VHS for 4 or 6$ to only get a buck or 2 out of it and you would need 2 or 3 items the space to be able to make a real profit off it than you would for games.

If the game industry wants to stop whining..er...do soemthing they'll have to gear it down and make less top heavy games and lower their own dev costs.


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

>have you bothered to check and see how many used DVDs are on Amazon and Ebay?

No, but then, neither do the bulk of film buyers. Most film sales are still discs from B&M stores, and let's not forget the extra revenue from the box office and TV.

>games are easily 3-5 times the cost of DVDs.

Games are only 3-5 times the cost of DVDs because of the second hand market. If a game and a movie cost the same amount to produce, the film is more likely to profit because it will shift more new units, partially due to being a more mainstream medium, and partially due to its lower pricepoint- something it is able to maintain due to its higher new sales.

>You see because of the high price it makes used games that much more lucrative

And used games make new games more expensive. If games were just $10 cheaper, what do you think that would do to the amount GameStop would give consumers at trade-in, or their margins? If GS offered even less at trade-in, they'd lose that market altogether. If the margins went, the second hand market wouldn't be sustainable. It's in GS's best interest to keep new prices high.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Wow......I'd say your delusional  but I would be calling the pot black.... the reason dvds are cheaper is because it has a larger market and they can afford to sell them at 1X.xx a pop were as games have to be higher in price not because of used games but because the game industry has a double market bubble going om. One bubble is the limited hardware to distribute the games on the other is the size of the overall  market.

In compensation the DVD market works on 1-2 hardware types DVD and blu ray and the blu ray can run DVD thus keeping revenue flowing for film developers  and this dose not even count whats made from theatrical releases, the game industry is so proprietary that it forces higher prices because it can only sustain 2 or 3 hardware monopolies, its not used games that is driving prices its the hardware/software exclusive driven nature of the game industry that forces them to keep prices high because one you have one hardware standard that all devs can make stuff for prices will go down because everyone has a higher chance of making some profit from the process and is able to sustain some form of profit over the long term unlike the current short sighted setup that has to push out games ASAP to maintain profit when items are at a higher price point.

Used games are not the problem the nature of the console war business model is.


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

I mentioned that DVD is a larger market. It is a larger market partially due to being more mainstream, and partially due to higher sales due to less used cannibalism.

The high pricepoint for games *is* a major barrier to the mainstream adoption of the form (casual games being sold at noticably lower prices isn't coincidental) but prices can't come down until sales increase- something that the used market is an obstacle towards.

I'm not saying there aren't other factors- but this is, by far, one of the bigger ones.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Don't glaze over the msot impaortant part that the hardware setup of the console war model forces it out of the mainstream and forces it to have higher prices across the board.


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

The console war thing doesn't make a blind bit of difference. Wholesale cost is the same whether they print a million xBox 360 discs or half a million 360 and half a million PS3 discs.

There's probably slight increases in production cost, but spread across all sales it's so small as to be negligable.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Uhhh.. No

Licensing on the individual consoles is different. That is why the PC version is always cheaper. Games are high priced because of the high price of wholesale.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2006/06/4386.ars

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_26/159-A-Marg...

This is why PC games drop dramatically in price usually only after a few months, even on Amazon.

I don't like Gamestop, haven't been into one in 5 years. Trying to stop me from buying used through DRM is underhanded. Trying to insensitivize me is great. Unfortunately companies such as EA and 2K have proven with past actions they aren't to be trusted.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hookers and Ice Cream aren't free. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5137-...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hookers and Ice Cream aren't free. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5137-...

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

>Games are high priced because of the high price of wholesale.

And the more units the wholesaler can sell, generally the less he will sell it for. Like I've said in nigh on every post so far.

>This is why PC games drop dramatically in price usually only after a few months, even on Amazon.

How many places do second-hand PC games? Not many, certainly not in the UK.

/b

Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts

Actually, thats a good question.  Why don't they deal in used games?  I mean, I don't know anything about economics, but if someone can bring in an old game for some cash, then the retailer can resell it for a little more income, why not work with PC?

I know EB Games used to deal in used pc, but once it was acquired by gamestop it had to stop.  Is there just not enough money in it or are there other issues stopping it?

 
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Sleaker@IanC - while the processor is effectively the same or very similar, the issue is how they setup the peripheral hardware. It would probably require creating some kind of emulation for the 3DS to handle interfacing with the audio and input methods for GBA07/28/2014 - 9:30am
Sleaker@EZK - hmmm, that makes sense. I could have sworn I had played GB/GBC games on it too though (emud of course)07/28/2014 - 9:23am
E. Zachary KnightSleaker, the DS has a built in GBA chipset in the system. That is why it played GBA games. The GBA had a seperate chipset for GB and GBColor games. The DS did not have that GB/GBC chipset and that is why the DS could not play GB and GBC games.07/28/2014 - 7:25am
IanCI dont think Nintendo ever gave reason why GBA games a reason why GBA games aren't on the 3DS eshop. The 3DS uses chips that are backwards compatable with the GBA ob GBA processor, after all.07/28/2014 - 6:46am
Sleakerhmmm that's odd I could play GBA games natively in my original DS.07/28/2014 - 1:39am
Matthew Wilsonbasically "we do not want to put these games on a system more then 10 people own" just joking07/27/2014 - 8:13pm
MaskedPixelanteSomething, something, the 3DS can't properly emulate GBA games and it was a massive struggle to get the ambassador games running properly.07/27/2014 - 8:06pm
Andrew EisenIdeally, you'd be able to play such games on either platform but until that time, I think Nintendo's using the exclusivity in an attempt to further drive Wii U sales.07/27/2014 - 7:21pm
Matthew WilsonI am kind of surprised games like battle network are not out on the 3ds.07/27/2014 - 7:01pm
Andrew EisenWell, Mega Man 1 - 4, X and X2 are already on there and the first Battle Network is due out July 31st.07/27/2014 - 6:16pm
MaskedPixelanteDid Capcom ever give us a timeline for when they planned on putting the Megaman stuff on Wii U?07/27/2014 - 2:23pm
MaskedPixelanteIf by "distance themselves from Google Plus" you mean "forcing Google Plus integration in everything", then yes, they are distancing themselves from Google Plus.07/26/2014 - 12:20pm
MechaTama31I wish they would distance G+ from the Play Store, so I could leave reviews and comments again.07/26/2014 - 11:03am
Matthew Wilson@pm I doubt it. Google seems to be distancing themselves from G+07/25/2014 - 9:31pm
Papa MidnightGoogle+ Integration is coming to Twitch!07/25/2014 - 8:41pm
MaskedPixelanteThis whole Twitch thing just reeks of Google saying "You thought you could get away from us and our policies. That's adorable."07/25/2014 - 2:52pm
Sleaker@james_fudge - hopefully that's the case, but I wont hold my breath for it to happen.07/25/2014 - 1:08pm
SleakerUpdate on crytek situation is a bit ambiguous, but I'm glad they finally said something: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-07-25-crytek-addresses-financial-situation07/25/2014 - 1:07pm
E. Zachary KnightMan Atlas, Why do you not want me to have any money? Why? http://www.atlus.com/tears2/07/25/2014 - 12:06pm
Matthew WilsonI agree with that07/25/2014 - 10:45am
 

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