Can someone explain this to me?
Wasn't it just yesterday that video game industry trade group the Entertainment Software Association issued a press release high-fiving itself over record sales of game software in 2008?
Why then, today, do we learn that GTA publisher Take-Two Interactive is griping about used game sales?
Here's what the ESA said yesterday about its record-breaking year:
Overall computer and video game industry hardware, software and peripheral sales climbed to $22 billion in 2008, with entertainment software sales comprising $11.7 billion of that total figure—a 22.9% jump over the previous year— the Entertainment Software Association (ESA) announced today... on the strength of a December sales month in which industry revenue ($5.3 billion) topped $5 billion for the first time in any single month. By comparison, as recently as 1997, the industry generated $5.1 billion over the entire year...
And here's T2 CEO Ben Feder (left) whining (via Cowen analyst Doug Creutz) today:
"GameStop continues to aggressively push their used game business, which is having a meaningful negative impact on sales of new games," noted analyst Doug Creutz, following a meeting with Take-Two CEO Ben Feder this week.
"Management is frustrated with this trend and is examining ways to ameliorate the problem, which includes strategies around online play and downloadable content which extend the lifespan of AAA titles."
GP: We have to ask: how "meaningful" can the supposed "negative impact" of used game sales be with game publishers having just completed their best year ever?
Or, is this another case of a greedy media corporation trying to squeeze every last nickel out of its customers?
UPDATE: I should make it clear that "whining" is my characterization of Ben Feder's position. Doug Creutz merely reports on Feder's concerns in an investor's note detailing his Tuesday meeting with the T2 CEO.
Comments
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
It was a combination of low interest, difficult to manage inventory and pressure from publishers over piracy concerns.
There was no central licensor for PC games and thus it was hard to keep track of all the possible games people would bring in. Most games that were traded in were logged under a generic PC game label.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
New games have always been at that price point, even before the second hand market became more 'mainstream', so your argument that such a facto is the reason for the high prices is flawed. They are artifically high to begin with, and Gamestop / Gamestation / other second hand retailers base their pricing against that system.
It's not a case of what came first, the chicken or the egg, as the high price of new games has always been there. If they are suggesting that they COULD be lower, except that such stores are taking their profit, then lowering the price would surely encourage more to buy new? IF the second hand retailers lower their prices accordingly, well... that's capitalism for you.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
>If they are suggesting that they COULD be lower, except that such stores are taking their profit, then lowering the price would surely encourage more to buy new?
Only is they are able to break even at the lower price point (less likely considering the current sales situation), and that retailers will pass that saving on in the first place, considering that doing so would undermine their more lucrative second hand market.
As I've said, this isn't a one-party issue.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Games are only 3-5 times the cost of DVDs because of the second hand market.
I highly doubt it is a direct result of used sales. It has more to do with the fact that movies usually break even in the box office and not the store front. If movies did not have theatres they would rpbably be selling movies for $30+ per disk as well.
No, but then, neither do the bulk of film buyers. Most film sales are still discs from B&M stores, and let's not forget the extra revenue from the box office and TV.
Actually I would say that it is pretty much the same type of people who buy used games. The yare looking for a specific release of a movie as it has the extra features they want or it is a hard to find new movie.
And used games make new games more expensive.
Please give me some solid information to back that up. I have yet to hear anything besides specualtion to bacj up that statement no matter who says it.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
>If movies did not have theatres they would rpbably be selling movies for $30+ per disk as well.
If movies did not have theatres then other markets for films- broadcast, recorded media, even piracy- would increase. Not, I grant you, to the tune of the value of box-office takings, but still noticably. A more mainstream medium like film would still be selling discs at a lower pricepoint that those of a similarly-budgeted game.
>Please give me some solid information to back that up. I have yet to hear anything besides specualtion to bacj up that statement no matter who says it.
See my other posts in this thread where I bang on tediously about cannibalised sales and basic economics.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
The thing is, everything you have said is speculative. You have not given any hard facts. Speculation is worthless in this argument.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
You (collectively) don't have any more proof that the games industry is being greedy (other than "OMG TEH EVIL CORPORATIONS") than I have for any of my comments, however- at least I'm using reasonably sound economic theory rather than name calling.
The problem is that Mr. Take Two is highlighting a problem ("new sales are too low because..."), and everone else here is also highlighting a perceived problem ("OMG TEH EVIL CORPORATION WANTS TO TAKE AWAY ARE SECOND HAND WAAAAA"), and while TT is trying to find a perfectly acceptable solution ("make new products more appealing"), here we get "OMG EVIL GREEDY etc" and nothing constructive.
I want the same result as everyone else: cheaper games. However, without explaining the machinations of business, and my/your/somebody's take on the situation, this isn't possible.
The industry needs to make cheaper wholesale games.
Retail need to improve their range of new games.
Consumers need to buy new more often.
These are the three things that need to happen so that we can get what we want. These things are not going to happen individually and on their own. Until we accept that we all have a part to play, the situation isn't going to change.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
The three situations you proposed likely won't work.
The industry needs to make cheaper wholesale games.
I agree, but they seem more content with the perception that if they throw 80m at the game's production, that people will somehow think it is the greatest title or for it to gain the perception of AAA, but a majority of consumers seem to avoid this, or they hate the entry price ($60). Only handheld developers seem to have the right idea of budget spending for quality titles.
Retail need to improve their range of new games.
I agree with this, but retail on gamestop's part refeuses to order extra stock and bases it on the pre-orders they receive to calculate demand on how much they'll order. Obviously, sleeper titles are ignored for the most part as a result of this. As for other retailers, walmart only seems to do something similar. I'm not sure how game-crazy or best buy does their range.
Consumers need to buy new more often.
I think the fact that they have record breaking numbers nearly yearly, more or less proves that this happens quite "often." The prices are also higher than last gen, more or less meaning that plenty of consumers have done their part.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
They will work, but they all have to happen more or less simultaneously.
>I agree, but they seem more content with the perception that if they throw 80m at the game's production
Production cost isn't that important, but how that is spread out is. More copies at wholesale = lower effective pricing. An $80mln game can still profit if it sells enough copies.
However, you have to write off any number of sales higher than the artificially low number the retailers order, banking on second-hand, and higher prices put consumers off.
>but retail on gamestop's part refeuses to order extra stock
And they have to balance available shelf space- individual titles are a lower risk if GS can stock more of them. Sadly, if half the store is taken up with second-hand games, then they have to take on fewer copies of fewer titles than they would if they were working with a full store.
Of course, if they ordered more, then individual prices would be lower, increasing retail margins while simultaneously decreasing sticker prices, meaning higher sales.
>I think the fact that they have record breaking numbers fairly nearly yearly, more or less proves that this happens quite "often."
Although clearly not often enough- count up how many posts here are little more than "I never buy new LOWER PRICES NOW! *folds arms*"
If more people were buying new, then retail would buy in more new copies at wholesale, which means more titles are likely to break even.
--
The point is that all three are reliant on one another, but somebody has to break the chain to make cheaper games happen.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Of course production cost is important, the problem is they do throw millions and expect to make bank, but most just hope of breaking even! It is insane!
Banking on second hand? I know Gamestop does this, but Walmart still sell a portion and as far as I know, they don't have a second hand department, they also don't count on game sales for profits, but yet they still sell them and quite a percentage of the total, to boot.
Shelf space varies from store to store, at mine, they have plenty of empty copies and keep plenty in the storage area and only fish them out when needed. There is only so much a store can hold though, the problem is still dependent on how much they base demand on from pre-orders though.
New sales don't happen often enough? Seriously? Record breaking numbers nearly yearly, and it still isn't often enough; even with the economy as it is? I think the real problem is greed at that point, consumers are making the market grow and the industry still demands more...there is a problem there. How much does the market need to sell if it keeps increasing in size?
The people who say "lower prices now" are the ones that buy new and simply wait for them to drop in price, the fact is, they STILL buy new which means profits.
If they really are reliant upon another, consumers have obviously done their part, but not the other two, yet there is blame upon consumers with future plans of practices that will obviously punish the small margin of consumers who buy used.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
>GameStop vs. Walmart
If Walmart think they'll sell ten copies of Beemoh's Super Awesome Game X, Walmart will buy ten new copies at wholesale. If GameStop think they'll sell ten, they'll most likely only buy three or four at wholesale, knowing some will be coming back to be sold again.
>Shelf Space
I think that's the case at most game stores- but the issue isn't of how many discs they can have in a store room, but how many different titles they can have on display- count the number of different games are available at GameStop, then go to a major DVD outlet and see how many different DVDs are on sale.
>often
If so many games are failing to break even, and so many studios are closing, then people aren't buying new often enough. Remember these "record breaking numbers" are revenue. Not sales. Games are simply still not 'mainstream', despite claims to the otherwise because some news programme did a human interest piece about some old people playing Wii Bowling. If a DVD cost a third of what a game does, then we're only selling a third as many copies. How many people are being priced out of the market because prices aren't getting any lower?
>future plans of practices that will obviously punish the small margin of consumers who buy used.
Sorry, what plans are these? The only one that's been mentioned in this article is the one where the Take Two guy wants to make games people don't want to trade in, not some draconian law, fee or DRM software measure.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
So many are failing to break even b/c of the production costs and the expenses used to produce these games. It isn't that consumers aren't buying new often enough, they do buy new but it impossible to buy every game produced. That's the result of competition and many expecting to break even by throwing tons of money at it to gain that "AAA" status and cover exclusives on a magazine or big preview sections on websites, etc. Don't forget the expenses thrown at marketing.
Games are mainstream, especially with the difficulty dwindling down on titles to make them more accessible to the general public and with Nintendo's shift of strategy to their new market. Oh, and don't forget, record sales...
What plans are these? It remains to be seen, but by the mention of the analyst that they'll focus more on DLC and online strategies. I'm speculating, but so far it hasn't been promising in my opinion judging by other companies like EA. If you believe me to be overreacting, perhaps I am. I'm speculating that if they focusing on online instead of having it as an expansion; they will likely have them push for subscriptions and such, which I rather not see happening instead of simply owning a title. There wasn't a discussion for making titles people don't want to trade in, but make them extend the life of the titles by DLC and online play.
There is a bit of problem with DLC and "fees", they want you to pay typically, which I don't really see a problem with, but the perception of "what is real dlc" is a problem. Some companies can simply just sell the game in chunks and make you pay more with the "online focus" aspect, giving them an inch with that, means they'll do it more often and we have yet another price increase for simply wanting the title itself. What if they charge for patches at some point? DLC typically is a fee, and you said they weren't talking about a "fee".
The Lost and the Damned seems great so far, but it'll bug me greatly if they try some measure of authentication of "only copies that were purchased new may be allowed to buy it"
Again, I'm speculating.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
I've done the DLC stuff upthread, so I'll leave you be on that one.
>So many are failing to break even b/c of the production costs and the expenses used to produce these games. It isn't that consumers aren't buying new often enough, they do buy new but it impossible to buy every game produced.
But we keep demanding bigger, faster, more content- DICE tried to make a game for less money recently. It was called Mirror's Edge. It soon found itself in second-hand bins for being "too short".
I never said the games industry was blameless. However, that doesn't mean retail and consumers are.
>Games are mainstream [...] and don't forget, record sales...
Which are still lower than mainstream persuits like films and music. More money's being spent, yes, but it's across fewer units by fewer people.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
But we keep demanding bigger, faster, more content-
Who's 'we'? I am certainly not calling for that. And I know plenty of people who feel the same.
DICE tried to make a game for less money recently. It was called Mirror's Edge.
I certainly would love to play it after hearing about it. Unfortuanately, I don't own anything that would run it.
It soon found itself in second-hand bins for being "too short".
My impression was that it found its way there because people didn't understand it. Much like most new IP. I personally don't mind shorter games as long as the price is right. I certainly can't justify paying $50-60 dollars for something that will only give a maximum of 10 hours of play time.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
I would actually say the blame is being placed on the retail sector. After all they are the ones pushing used sales. But last I checked, Gamestop wasn't the majority in new sales. Big Box retail was. Walmart holds the largest chunk.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
I see there is a disctinction that they blame gamestop for pushing used sales. However, they talk about online and DLC as future plans which in my opinion, can end up punishing consumers, even ones that buy new. I'm not saying online is bad, but that itself, is an expansion, and shouldn't be the focus on consoles; and focusing entirely on DLC, I wouldn't like to see since we've seen what some companies do with it. I'm only speculating on what some may do though, T2 seems to be doing DLC "right" so far, but if they make it to where you can only do so by buying new, then that's a problem...
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
>focusing entirely on DLC, I wouldn't like to see since we've seen what some companies do with it.
Dunno, I quite like the DLC-centric model for the music games- I'd rather have that and buy one or two tracks I want than have to buy twenty at a time which I mostly won't on disc.
>if they make it to where you can only do so by buying new
Why would they do that? Surely that'd make them less money? I think the DLC approach is to monetise tradeins- turning the second-hand channel into a marketing tool, or just keeping games out of the channel altogether.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
I don't think I ever said that corporations are evil for wanting to sell more new copies. That is fine for them to want. What I am complaining about is that they are saying that new sales are canablized by used sales without any facts to back that up. Whether that lack of facts is on their part for not seeking them out or on Gamestop and other used games merchants not releasing the data, is beside the point.
They are only speculating on the loss of sales based on used games.
AS far as I am concerned, used games help more game franchises than it hurts. But alas, my thoughts are speculative as well. I will give you that.
Personally, I would love to see Gamestop release monthly sales reports on trade-ins and used sales. It would be quite enlightening to read.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
But you did immediately assume it was greedy money-grabbing in your first post at the top of this thread, without perhaps looking at where this assumption comes from (hence my bollocks about economics), which is the problem.
Demonstrable facts don't change who is and isn't right, for want of a better example- one party or the other is already right, be it us or Take Two, and we can't work out who it is without looking at both sides, which doesn't seem to be happening here, or at least it's getting drowned out over "OMG GREEDY". (Example: most anything Zippy's said ;P)
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
True. Their used sales are not waved in their faces like the games industry, but it is just as prevelant. I can name a least a dozen places within a 20 minute drive from my house that sells either used books or movies. There could be more that I don't know about. They obviously have some kind of impact on their respective industries.
I did make a general statement about DRM which has been used lately to limit resale and "piracy". I did glaze over that line in the quote. But why are they only concerned about the lifetime sales of AAA titles? I guess that would be because they have to most to lose when it comes to those games. I can understand why used game sales are a problem for those games.
So let's see what they decide to actually implement then.
But just as a suggestion and so I don't sound like a complete used game sympathizer, They can increase revenue buy having DLC that expands the life of a game. They can also increase revenue through episodic games, expansion packs etc. There are more ways to make money off of a game than jus tthrough new sales.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Once again, book comparisons are invalid, the cost is created from printing which happens in response to demand. Games cost upfront.
Movies make their money back in most cases from box office sales not from final sales. The only exempts from this are the ones that never go to the theatre.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
>I can name a least a dozen places within a 20 minute drive from my house that sells either used books or movies.
How many of those are big-box retailers where the masses actually buy their media?
>So let's see what they decide to actually implement then.
They can increase revenue buy having DLC that expands the life of a game. They can also increase revenue through episodic games, expansion packs etc.
GTAIV Multplayer? Lost And Damned? Non-'live' online like Rockstar Social Club?
Part of this could be as simple as selling games $5/unit less to the wholesaler, slowly undermining the value of the second-hand market, but if- as I suspect- retailers are artificially keeping new prices up to support the second-hand market, then that's simply not going to work. And it assumes that the projects can still profit with at $5 less per unit.
That this isn't something that can be solved by one party alone.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
While not all of them, but a fair ammount are large retailers that sell both used and new movies and books. One would be Hastings. A place that sells, both new and used movies, books, music and games.
Let me ask you a question. How muc hof the $60 price tag of new games a direct result of used game sales? Also, how much of that price tag a result of the stigma resonating from "next-gen" consoles?
I would gather that more of the price increase comes from the latter rather than the former.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Blockbuster also does the whole selling movies that have been used before granted its the ones they have rented out instead of ones they have bought from people but similar concept and I doubt the movie company sees a dime off of that sale.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
>How muc hof the $60 price tag of new games a direct result of used game sales?
The difference between the price tag of a new game and the price tag of a new film.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
See my below comment on return on investment between movies and games.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind your theory that the retailers are artificially inflating retail prices, and particularly why this would have anything to do with the secondhand market.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
For the sake of keeping the comments thread neat, see my reply to Zippy's post immediately below.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
In a slightly related note, I'm suggesting that we compile a Waagh! to deal with this situation. Preferably with gamers, and not orks, for obvious reasons.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Its totally ridiculous, once a consumer purchases a new product they are well within their rights to sell it on to whoever they please, including a retailer. That retail is within their rights to sell it back to a second consumer at a reduced price. It generates additional revenue, keeping people in jobs (which at a time like this, is a great thing...so why are companies whinging about that?)
I think that Epic managed to produce a great concept, with the extra downloadable map pack with each original copy of Gears 2. It encourages people to buy it new, but doesn't penalise them by much if they choose to go second hand.
I think that while developers should be due more money from the sale of their games, it's the publishers which are becoming too greedy...
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
It generates additional revenue, keeping people in jobs (which at a time like this, is a great thing...so why are companies whinging about that?)
Please tell me, if I sell my used copy of GTA4, how does that generate revenue for Take2? You do know, that there's more than one company, do you? It's not a hard concept.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Apologies, didn't make myself clear enough. Generates revenue in the economy and for the retailer. Not for T2. Hence the word "additional".
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
It doesn't, and it shouldn't. T2 already sold that copy of GTA; they shouldn't get paid for it again. They also shouldn't be allowed to control how people use what they've already purchased. If I buy something; I can do anything with it that I want aside from making and distributing copies. Game companies shouldn't be able to stop me from playing, selling, or melting games I've purchased.
Tell me, why should T2 get paid for GTA again? They made a copy, you bought the copy, they made money off that copy. Do you really think they should get paid for it again? That's like saying Ford should get paid every time someone sells a used car. Restricting the sales of used games would be like restricting used car sales. I don't see any other industry (aside from maybe music) complaining that people resell used stuff. If book publishers and car makers aren't complaining, why are game companies? As long as they make enough money to cover the production costs and turn a little profit, game companies should shut up and be happy that they sold what they did.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Argument against that normally is that cars their conditions grow worse over time, they lose value. Some argue a game doesn't. Of course, against that I'd comment "try playing the original Unreal Tournament". The constant improving quality of games in many ways, average graphic quality, sound quality, gameplay aspects, means that older games become worth less because the standards increase.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Where did Take 2 ask for GTA to be paid for again?
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
I'd say just about the whole rant on how a second hand market hurts multibillion dollar industries does a pretty good job of asking to be paid twice for the same copy of the game.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Which one? All he's done is say that he believes that new sales are being cannibalised by the second hand market, and that he believes the solution to this is to make better product.
That's neither a rant nor an attempt to get paid twice.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Yeah, they should make a better product and sell it at a resonable price instead of complaining about the used game market. Wouldn't that be freaking amazing? They might also solve their supposed piracy problem if they made great games and sold them at lower prices. Wow, who would have thought of that?
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Anyone else think the guy looks like Cheny?
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
In that picture, he looks like the lead character from "The Shield"
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
"Publishers will do anything to stop second hand sales, they are that greedy.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Why did Feder also leave out the part where GTA4 (despite being a mediocre game in every way) also broke records by itself?
I gotta go with greed on this one.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
I second the bit out it being mediocre. I hate how often I get called up to go out and do things with people I don't care for. Wish I could just drop the damn phone and be done with it.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
You can cancel calls off with the B button. Also, there's a 'sleep mode' which turns the phone off altogether.
/b
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
As I've said before, this is what all that 'numbered life' of Video Games is about, not combatting Piracy, but combatting second hand sales.
Video Game corps are becoming exactly like every other Mega-corp out there, it had to happen eventually, and if people start refusing to buy their goods, they have built the perfect scape-goat, Piracy.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
I fail to understand the problem people have with used games.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
The used game markert is one that the game developers get nothing from. And I respectfully disagree with Dennis that companies are just "whinning". All you need to do is take a look at how many studios are closing up shop. Even EA has to close several of its studios. Hundreds of thousands of game industry veterans are suddenly finding themselves out of work. Companies hate doing it, but they don't want to go under.
Personally I feel that the people in the used games market are the ones "whinning" about how games shouldn't cost $60. But as the technology gets better and customers expect more (better graphics, more content, etc.) the cost of development gets more expensive.
Developers see the used game market as stealing money from them. And contrary to Dennis' comment about greedy corporates, the companies do need the money. Now I understand the place and desire for the used games market and the ways in which it helps the consumer. But if you want to protect it, then quit "whinning" about the game companies in a forum and prove to them that the used game market is actually good for them. Because right now game developers need all the money they can find just to keep their companies afloat. So help them out and show them how helping the used game industry would actually benifit them, because unless you do you will begin to see more and more games levraging one-time use codes and other such tactics.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
I don't see book publishers whining about second hand book stores, do you? They don't get any part of the resale of books. Do you see authors complaining about second hand book store? Nope. In fact I know of several well known authors go to one of the largest second hand book stores in the USA to do signings. (The book store in question is Powell's Books in Portland, OR. Their largest store is an entire city block, and 4 stories tall.)
All the developers and publishers are entitled to is the first sale. After that it belongs to whomever purchased it.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Book publishing continues to get cheaper, not more expensive. It additionally requires very little in terms of up front money. Most of the cost is in printing copies which is done to match sales. The large majority of the price of game developement happens before a single copy is ever sold.
Re: T2 Whines About Used Games - a Day After Industry Touts
Books don't require a whole studio and millions of dollars to make... You don't get the point he made at all.
http://www.eliteownage.com/nice