The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

February 19, 2009 -

From the Federal Trade Commission to Entertainment Consumers Association President Hal Halpin, there is a sense that End User License Agreements are increasingly problematic for consumers.

But a woman named Anne Loucks has found an entertaining - if legally suspect - solution. But then again, EULAs themselves seem a bit legally suspect.

When presented with a EULA, Loucks has her cat, Simba, agree to the terms. She has even created a rudimentary physical apparatus for Simba to employ in the EULA acceptance process:

As Simba is not a legal entity, I don't really know how kitty's agreements would stand up in court, but I like to think he would be responsible for any breaches of contract, assuming the agreement is even enforceable. After all, he is not even of legal age, at least in human years.

First, we must create a way for Simba to push the button. I created a cardboard platform with a long thin protrusion for pressing the spacebar, which is sufficient to activate most onscreen buttons after you TAB to place the focus on them.

Success!! He presses the button of his own free will. Admittedly, he was coerced and rewarded, but really, nobody forced my cat to step on the button and become party to a software license agreement. At the very least, we know he was not under duress.

The download begins and I have personally agreed to nothing.

Via: Slashdot

FULL DISCLOSURE DEPT: The Entertainment Consumers Association is the parent company of GamePolitics.


Comments

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

What about the argument that reading through EULAs is so irritating that you just clicked "I agree" without reading it instinctively as part of installing any game?

Or the argument that you clicked a button, you didn't sign anything?

Or both combined?

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

Question: Assume I already buy software and have to agree to the EULA when I try to install. On top of that the shop doesn't accept the software back because the casing has been opened. How legal is it to force you to sign something to use the product you already paid for and can't get a refund on?

In general I just skip through EULAs, the way I figure it is if they screw me over they're going to break european or dutch laws and are fucked themselves as well.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

That's ridiculously awesome.

Haha, the argument above about 'intent to click the button' is hilarious. If you're on your way to sign a contract, have seen the contract, and are shot or for some reason don't yourself physically sign the contract, or someone who has the legal right to sign for you, that contract does not go into effect.

This opens up two forks of arguments, the first:

If EULAs are treated as real, physical contracts then they aren't following all the rules of real, physical contracts and should be revised. A real contract when signed can sign away, with no form of payment, all physical possessions of a person. Does a EULA have these rights? Can they legally bar you from use of the software?

The second:

If EULAs are not treated as real, physical contracts then how are they treated? All legally binding material is governed by a set of usually crystal clear rules. What powers does an EULA have? Can it do the same things as a real contract through the clicking of a button, or is it a verbal contract which, when not witnessed by a third mutually agreed upon party, is usually nullified?

...in less serious news, I'm *SO* training my dog to do that when I cough and look at her.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

I think I have a new use for my cat, just above catching stray birds for my taxidermy collection and below something to hug.

Wait... you shouldn't have heard of that first thing.

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Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

You guys are all a bunch of cretins!

I take no responsibility for this post, btw -- my cat is technically the one who's going to press "submit," so you can't get mad at me. ;D

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Fangamer

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

I can haz more installz nao, plz?

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

As a Quaker I've had a lot of mental anguish over these EULA things.  Basically, either my sanity or my faith has to go out of the window in order for me to press that button (I either have to read and understand all that crazy legalese or I have to lie and press the button without reading it).  Maybe I'll get my dog to agree to the EULA in future so that I can be a good Quaker once more.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

I'm going to start doing this!


If you go crazy then I will still call you Superman.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

you do know that on SOME EULAs you can delete the text?

yeah.. delete ALL the text.

then you can click accept, after you have deleted all the terms.

Even better solution.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

My computer has been infected by the EULA virus.  Every time a EULA is offered, the virus automatically agrees to it, whether I want it to or not.

Wait!  Lack of responsibility virus!  That sounds more like...

Nah, I'll behave.  :D

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

But does it still count as My acceptance of the EULA if I wrote and infected my own computer with said EULA Virus?

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

How about if I write it for you? SendInput ftw.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

lol I knew my two cats were up to something when they walked on my keyboards at night. Now I know! And knowing is half the battle!

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

A cat just has to make the right sequence of key presses to suck you into your computer and take up all the information on the Internet, possibly making a EULA acceptance negligible.

GameSnooper

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

Question:If this were to occur: will my skin turn blue, my clothes become red tights, and I decide to be a super hero?

If yes, then I'm all for this.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

Hmm. Interesting.

I'd like to see some sort of Schrödinger variant on this.

Is an EULA enforceable if it is simultaneously in an accepted and not accepted state?

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

What if you got screaming drunk every time you had to agree to a EULA, couldn't you then claim to be in an altered state of mind? Wouldn't this then negate the agreement?

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

Someone already brought this up on Slashdot. Apparently, you're still liable, if you get drunk on purpose. Someone even cited the specific case, which set the precedent on this.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

Well there goes my plan to beat the EULA, I wonder if it counts if my friends get me drunk and I than agree to the EULA.

 

 

_ _ Pops... If you dance with the devil, the devil don't change. The devil changes you.

_ _ Pops... If you dance with the devil, the devil don't change. The devil changes you.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

What if you rig this same device to release poisonous gas into your neighbor's apartment? Guess who's guilty of premeditated murder. (Hint: It's not your cat.)

 

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

Whoops. Well I guess that's my plans for the weekend out of the window...

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

I really hope this is meant as a joke article, GP...

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

After reading the article over again, I have arrived at the conclusion that this is not a joke article.

This actually looks pretty useful, after further review.

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

You've got to be kidding me.  Do you actually believe that having your cat perform the physical act of agreeing to the EULA will shield you from legal action?  Even the original article is written with a sort of tongue-in-cheek humor.

Please tell me you're kidding.

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

I think you should probably get your sarcasm meter looked at, there seems to be something wrong with it.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

If it were anyone else other than Shadow, believe me, I would've written it off as sarcasm.

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

Either that, or it's correct and nearing "Troll" levels.

But you might be right and he's reading it wrong. Get it looked at anyway.

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

So what now, I'm a troll?  Or I'm detecting one or something??  Once again, I have no clue what you're talking about, but then, you typically don't either, so whatever.

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

No, you're not a Troll. Not yet, anyway. Either way, it looks like you have a penchant for insulting how people post. You can plead your right to speak, I don't care, I plead my right to believe that if you don't have anything nice to say, then you shouldn't say anything at all.

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

People?  Plural?  I don't know about that.  I've gotten into some heated debates with other posters from time to time, but I'm actually quite cordial with everyone for the most part.  If you recall, I used to afford that same consideration to you in trying to get you to actually post meaningful comments once in a while.  That is, until I saw you start telling people (including me) to STFU and GTFO if they didn't like it, not to mention all the tattling.

Yeah, I know that's in the past, but your posts haven't changed all that much since.  Sure, you don't post pics as often, but you still rarely (if ever) add anything to the topics at hand.  Personally, I think your detractors (including myself) have done a good job of laying off you lately, likely out of respect for the judgement laid down by the admins.  However, if you say or do something that I find completely asinine, I just might call you on it.  Happens to other people all the time on this site, you don't get a free pass.  If I say something stupid or uninformed, I won't complain if I get ripped.  I'd fully expect it, actually.

"...if you don't have anything nice to say, then you shouldn't say anything at all."

You know, most of the time I'm able to adhere to that.  Sometimes I succumb.  I guess we all have different tolerance levels for...other folks' idiosyncrasies.  Personally, I prefer this modified axiom:

"If you don't have anything intelligent to say, you shouldn't say anything at all."

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

Man I'd better stop posting jokes before I get mauled by the GP "Internet is serious business" militia.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

*cocks rifle and grins*

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

...what he said.

busa ftw.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

I am not a lawyer, but this just seems pointless to me. By setting up a device for this purpose, tabbing to the agree button, and then coercing the cat the push the button, you are showing intent for the button to be pushed. Even if you set up an elaborate Rube Goldberg device, with the intended end result of pushing a button, YOU have pushed that button.

Anyway, has a EULA ever been challenged based on the arguement that it was never actually seen, read and/or agreed to? It seems like it would be difficult to prove anyway. What is the difference between doing this, and simply claiming that your cat sat on the keyboard during the installation? You'd still have to claim ignorance of the existance of the requirement to agree to the EULA before installation.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

 You can argue that the cat has never agreed to the licence agreement because it wasn't aware of what it did(the whole "meeting of the minds" during contract") but also, you never accepted it, you can argue the cat "accidentally" clicked it, and you agreed to nothing. 

But that's like stretching an elastic, starting to see it rip, but you just can't stop yourself but slowly stretch it further, then it snaps and hurts you.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

I hate to admit this, but that is just too damn cute.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

i knew cats were good for something.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

I need to buy a cat now.

Re: The Feline Way to Avoid Nasty EULAs

I need a dog... [I hate cats, no offense to cat lovers, I like independent dogs that are also loyal when need be.]

I want to see how the reaction in court would be...  I claim I was in an altered state of mind when agreeing to that crap, because #1 who the hell reads it in the first place, #2 who would actually agree to half of that crap anyways or would need to.

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KronoThe underlying suggestion most of the articles had that gamers supporting the issue were just the young men stereotype pissed off a lot of people, and sparked the #NotYourShield tag09/18/2014 - 9:41am
Krono@andrew Just two? The whole reason #GamerGate gained real traction was that 9 op-eds including arguments to that effect dropped in 24 hours: http://markdownshare.com/view/a524affd-e679-40be-8aa1-72058065dc2a09/18/2014 - 9:38am
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Michael ChandraMeanwhile, Gamergate is tainted and wise people already use a different tag to defend decent arguments. Keeping it up is like going #KKK while arguing about PoC.09/18/2014 - 6:30am
Michael ChandraSo while claiming to be unfairly attacked for the actions of a selected few, you unfairly attack an entire crowd for the actions of a selected few? #notagamer #butahater09/18/2014 - 6:30am
james_fudgeQuiknkold: Let me ask you- how many of those 'gamers are dead' articles did you see here? Because apparently i'm part of some vast conspiracy.09/18/2014 - 5:18am
NeenekoAh, that old straw man. That is one of the ironies about the discussion, the whole point is showing how good people can still have problems with sexism and not realize it.09/17/2014 - 9:11pm
Andrew EisenYes, there have been a handful of op-eds suggesting that the term “gamer” has become tainted (two that I know of) but that’s the opinion of only a few. I've seen an equal number from those who disagree.09/17/2014 - 8:55pm
Andrew EisenExcept, you haven't provided a single example of a site that’s actually calling gamers a "collective of Sexist White Bigoted Basement Dwelling Manchildren."09/17/2014 - 8:55pm
TechnogeekIf you want to make the stereotype of gamers less painful, try calling people out when they do bad shit rather than handwave it away as "not all gamers". Even if it is a few bad apples, that'll still more than enough to spoil the barrel.09/17/2014 - 8:53pm
quiknkoldI'm not going to Sell Gamergate anymore. It can sell itself. But I will sell the integrity of the Gamer. That we are still good people, who create and donate to charitys, Who engage with those around us and just want to have a good time.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldpeople should not be harrassed and punished for the actions of a few. I've always welcomed and accepted everybody who wanted to join in. Who wanted to make them, or play them. I love good strong female protagonists, and want more.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldOne of the tennants of Gamergate is to stand up against Harrassment. That Gamers arent like those assholes. We can argue for days if the Sexism or Antifeminism or corruption is there or not, But the one thing I believe in and wear on my sleave is that09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldBut there were these websites, attacking me and people like me, for the actions of a few. and then others joined in on Twitter and other places. there was a hashtag that said "explain in 4 words a gamer" and it made me sick.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldManchildren who are awful people and that the Identity of the Gamer should die. This hurt me personally. I've always identified as a Gamer. Even in my childhood years, I was a Gamer. All my friends are Gamers. Its one of the core parts of my identity.09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
quiknkoldUltimately, With the whole Gamergate thing, I jumped on it due to the harassment. A small number of assholes harrass Anita and Zoe, and then all the publications lumped together Gamers as this collective of Sexist White Bigoted Basement Dwelling09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
 

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