Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

February 19, 2009 -

Valve founder Gabe Newell did some outside-the-box musing during his DICE Summit keynote, reports Stephen Totilo of MTV Multiplayer.

Among other topics, Newell ripped DRM for games:

Newell believes that [DRM] that is presented as copy-protection gives a game a stink. It leaves customers unsure about how flexibly they can access their games. So they turn to pirates who offer games with fewer strings, he suggested. “There is evidence anecdotally that DRM is increasing piracy rather than decreasing piracy.”

 

Valve’s solution: battle the pirates by providing better services than the pirates do. The effectiveness of pirates, he said, is to get content to people who want it more swiftly and easily than the companies who make the content do. An outfit like Valve, however, can get provide even better service, even by doing something as intrusive as data-mining their customers’ computers — as long as they are transparent about it and can prove to the customer that taking such measures will make the customers’ games better.

GP: Nice... We're adding Gabe Newell to our list of game industry white hats who are keeping the most important person in the business - the game consumer - in mind.


Comments

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Anonononomous

 

Commission work tends to shrink royalties and creates a situation where the common creative worker on a project is paid moistly up front thus…they made all the possible profit they can make off it and this is amplified if it sales well.

 

But humans are weak. One would be crazy to live off the grind and shun technology and media. You can’t simply write it off when one dose not have the money yet thrives off the benefits of consuming fiction the liens of thought make it information that can not be restricted to mere profit, besides if society likes it they will support it for as long as they care to.

 

And there’s another problem if one dose not have the money one might as well be dead, so why are you arguing about those who can not afford it skipping out on intangible thought like goods??

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


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Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Comission is where the salesman gets a percentage of the sales.

And the rest of what you wrote is too stupid to reply to.

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Hurr hurr hurr, let's all call copyright infringement, theft!!! That's really being smart.

Copyright infringement ISN'T theft because theft involves removal of another person's CURRENT assets, not their POSSIBLE FUTURE assets. Understand now?

By the way, insulting someone is just a big ol' sign saying you've lost the argument.

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

And this is a very good reason why Valve gets my business...and respect.  I love the fact that I can buy a game on Steam once, and use it on both my PC as well as my wifes laptop by simply logging into my account on that computer and downloading the game.  If there is no need to play both copies at once..they understand that.  I would love to be able to play different games at the same time on both computers, but you can't look a gift horse in the mouth when you compare it to other companies policies.

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Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

I would love to be able to play different games at the same time on both computers, but you can't look a gift horse in the mouth when you compare it to other companies policies.

Now why do I get the impression, that Valve and EA aren't held to the same standard?

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

I'm pretty sure you can't download games on whatever PC you want if you download it through EA, someone else will have to confirm it but from what I've heard you have far less rights with a download from EA than you do with steam.

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

I'm pretty sure, playing Red Alert 3 on one of my PCs doesn't prevent Spore from running on the second. That you don't even perceive that as a problem of Steam just proves my point.

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Apples to oranges comparison.

Steam has this limitation due to the style of Distribution and DRM that it is and was originally designed to fill. The idea is you should only be able to play one game at a time since you purchased all these games for youself under your login ID, how could you play multiple games at once if you are one person? It also presents the issue of multiple people just sharing an account, what if me and all my friends just bought one game and passed the rest around using the same Steam account?

I understand why they did it, and yes under some conditions it is a hinderance. The potential solution is to allow a more robust gifting/borrowing system; of course such a system would need some safeguards to prevent the above scenario happening through a different mechanic.

In the meantime Steam does not pretend to be something it isn't, they know and admit they are a DRM system, however they believe that to facilitate this inconvience they need to give us something to offset it, and that is somethign they succeed at. Whether that offset is enough for you personally is a matter for yourself.

I notice a lot of people igorning the intristic concept that everyone who experiences a piece of commerical entertainment should pay for it in some way to support it's creation and the creation of further entertainment. I'm not saying the market couldn't use some work, but we as consumers have a responsibility to support our favorite form of entertainment, otherwise that form degrades and eventually goes to the wayside.

 

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Well one might own more than 1 PC and more than 1 person who plays it ina  house hold so watching it for real abuse of 10 or more would be better than locking it if more than 2 people play and such.

 

I can think of 5 things that would make steam better

 

1.A better online/offline setup, preferably one that dose not lock the game if its offline but rather disables online features until it can find the net.

 

 

2. Proper Lan support.

 

3.”Lending” you can send a friend one of your games for a 48 hours so you both can play or just to check out the game. This is through steam and the game has no offline mode.

 

4.”Renting” 5Cents a hour is a pretty good rate, get a demo and turn it into the whole game, send a game to a friend,ect,ect all of this through steam and with no offline mode.

This could use a double blind system, steam on the PC + a steam double checking app in the game itself.

 

5.A 2 tiered point system one is a direct money system(1$=100 points) the other a point based system from games 1000 points= 1 point= 1 cent. This can be multiplied for MP3s, pictures, ,gameplay frottage, cutsence footage ect whatever is considered easily disposed of media for their games.

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Duffy

 

The trouble is there those that can but don;t and those that can;t, pay that is.

 

Also if one is cherry picking the best stuff to buy they like through downlaoding that means the stuff they really liek is beign supported.


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Don't they have steam?  and isn't it a pain in the rear sometimes too?

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Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Steam is indeed a pain in the rear.  If I don't have internet connectivity I can't play - that's as intrusive a DRM solution as any other.

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

No, it's not.  There aren't many PC gamers without internet, and you only need internet for purchases and online play with Steam (a Steam game you buy from a brick-and-mortar store will say it requires internet on the box, so if you don't know what you're getting into it's your own damn fault).  The DRM EA's been scourging recent games with treats you like a criminal.

 

No, Luke, I AM the Walrus

No, Luke, I AM the Walrus

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Ya becuse the damn thing has a crappy coded offline/online mode, and defaults to I wont paly becuse I is confused mode......


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Well when it comes to software, particularly PC software, some people are going to have problems.  It's just a fact of life really and unless it's a widespread problem you can't really fault the company for every single little issue that crops up.

The only issue I've heard a lot of people complain about is playing games offline, but more often than not it has to do with the user not having something in settings set up correctly.

As for Steam as DRM, yeah it is but it's by far the most lax DRM out there and isn't intrustive at all unlike SecuROM.  What Gabe is getting at is you have to offer a service that is competitive to piracy if you want to draw customers in as opposed to the usual publisher mentality which is to screw over the consumer by placing constricting or malicious programs into the game.

 

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Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Too bad lots of games on Steam ALSO come with SecuRom.

Frankly, to me, it's like this.  If I can install your game on my system without having to register, that's awesome.  I just spend 10 minutes installing the game, I don't want to spend another 10 filling out a form.

But if I can install the game and run it without the disc in the drive, that's even better.  What this allows me to do is not keep an assortment of discs next to my PC at all times.

But if I can LEND this game to a friend so they can play it and see how awesome the game is so they can buy their own copies?  DAMN!  This is like PC gaming 10 years ago.  Personally, I have sold more friends on Company of Heroes just because of this ability than any other game I own.

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Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Valve games have no drm besides steam.

Games from other publishers are a different story. Valve has two options in that case. Not have the games on steam, or have the games on steam with extra DRM.

Why? Because the companies don't want to take the time to provide a steam specific version.

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Ummm I think I need an example of a game on steam with securom, last time I checked even EA had been taking their DRM off when offered on steam...

Originally Posted by VALVe
EA accidentally patched their Steam version of the game with a DRM'd version. We should have a patch out sometime next week that will correct this.

This was from a  forum topic on a game that got patched with it... soo I always considered them pretty solid there.

I don't see why people give steam so much crap other than saying that offline mode doesn't work perfectly.  Really it is attempting to do just what gabe is describing up here, offer better things than pirates, and I really do like the community system set up on steam.

Really I think a lot of people just can't stand that they, dare I say it, have to pay real money for some games? I got Half Life for a dollar, a DOLLAR, worth every cent, and no securom on it.


Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Sporge

Thats becuse Sicrom is put on steam games by publishers like EA,edios,activision.

 

Its not vavle's fault but jsut part of the 2 or 3 issues steam haz.

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

I realilize it wasn't Valve's personally doing, I just meant I thought they were really pushing to get all the games on Steam securom free.  I know Spore was made that way on steam... and some others as well.

Funny, I think Securom can be treated like a bad chemical found in foods to some degree.

And before I look oblivious to other things, I am aware tht the offline mode does have issues. 


Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

Bioshock and Fallout 3, both SecuROM loaded Steam games that I know of.  Most games that ship with SecuRom have it on their Steam variations.  And since SecuRom actually attacks my computer like your copy pasta yellow font assaults the eyes, I avoid these things.

I don't mind paying for games, hell... look at my post below.  Just because a game has SecuRom doesn't mean I get to steal it.  It means I don't get to play it, period.  Please do research before attacking me.  I mean this thread alone should have told you.

Wall of Text Simulation- Insert coin to continue.

Wall of Text Simulation- Insert coin to continue.

Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

I bought bioshock and cracked it, I did the same for FO3...I regert BS its a mere shadow of what it could ahve been. FO3 is enat but the glow wore off after 30 hours of play time only reason I don;t call it crappy is becsue I can mod it :P.

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM in DICE Keynote

RA3 just had a patch today that removed SecuRom from the steam version.

 
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