Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California Ruling

February 20, 2009 -

Is California's violent video game law headed to the U.S. Supreme Court?

State Sen. Leland Yee (D) thinks it should be. Yee has urged California Attorney General Jerry Brown to appeal today's 9th Circuit Court decision which upheld a lower court's ruling that the video game law he authored in 2005 is unconstitutional.

Yee, a child psychologist, released this statement: 

While I am deeply disappointed in today’s ruling, we should not stop our efforts to assist parents in keeping these harmful video games out of the hands of children.  I believe this law will inevitably be upheld as Constitutional by the US Supreme Court.  In fact, the high court recently agreed, in Roper v. Simmons (2005), that we need to treat children differently in the eyes of the law due to brain development.

 


Comments

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

If you were responding to me, I wasn't talking the violence and cursing. In American Pie, think Webcam, "What's my name,...?",Band Camp. All sexual and as much or more shown than Hot Coffee. Why should Hot Coffee have pushed over into AO?

As to your point 1, as had been said hundreds of times, PROVE IT, and prove it is substantial enough to warrant legal restriction.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

The ESRB is upfront about not playing games.  It's right on their website.  They rate games based on a content submission form and gameplay video provided by the publisher.  Hand picked and randomly selected titles are played to ensure the publisher provided content is accurate.

Seeing as how out of the multiple thousands of titles rated there have been only one to three problems (depending on how you count), I don't see why this method isn't satisfactory.  Why go through the time and expense to play through the entire game?  It's completely unnecessary.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

And speaking of proof, what about the proof for

"The simple fact of the matter is no child should be exposed to games in series like GTA, F.E.A.R., and manhunt 2."

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Would you show a twelve year old a movie where a man hired a prostitute, banged her in his car, then shot her and took his money back?

How about letting a 12 year old watch 'The Ring'?

"But people are different! 5% of 12 year olds may be ready for this type of content."

If it was that 5% being exposed, it would be fine.

 

Really I don't care what content is in games, if a game wants to include hardcore pornography then more power to it, but it sure as hell shouldn't be rated "M" along with a game rated such because it drops F-bombs. Let me clarify: AO isn't used because it would keep the game from being sold on most major platforms. The ESRB was founded by the ESA, and I believe they still have bias for ESA member companies.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

"Let" and "Needs to be codified in law" are two completely different things

There's a high bar for speech regulation, and it hasn't been met yet for video games or movies.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

What is broken about the current system? If anything it's *too* conservative.

Chess with "Mild Fantasy Violence"? 

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

My main beef with the current system is games like crysis are in the same ratings catagory as games like manhunt 2.

It's stupid on both ends, but my main concern is the T, M, and AO ratings.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Same thing could be said for films, though.  Films like Glory are in the same category as the Saw movies.  It's a flaw inherent in simplified ratings systems like the ESRB and MPAA efforts.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

 I'm going to have to disagree with your first 3 paragraphs. Your use of absolutism is somewhat disconcerting. Those same sentiments are what drives politicians to try and pass these sorts of laws. It also seems to be at odds with your statements in the latter half of your post.

In my opinion there is no 'simple fact of the matter' in regards to what games children should be allowed to play. It should completely be in the hands of the parents. If they think their 12 year old son can handle playing GTA, then that's their decision. Of course, they could end up being wrong, but them's the breaks.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

The same reason you don't expose a child to hardcore pornography is the same reason you don't let them watch a man's head get blown into giblets. That's the absolute reason. While I'm not saying that this is an apples to apples comparison, I believe it fits.

Man, I don't even need to start citing examples where parents/adults honestly believed that what they were doing with/for their children was right.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

"The same reason you don't expose a child to hardcore pornography is the same reason you don't let them watch a man's head get blown into giblets."

And that reason is?

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

There's enough political obfuscation on the subject, but if you'd like to look up studies on the effects of pornography on adults, you may. However, our laws protect minors from these kinds of studies, and make it illegal to conduct them in a controlled way.

At the very least it messes with their expectations in future relationships.

Anyway, I can't remember what it's called exactly. The exposure to violence at a young age where the inhibitions to commiting it in real life are not yet present (I'm talking <10 here, and if you read this site you know very well that 6 year olds have played GTA..though since the kid didn't die ((whew))the story was kind of funny) and they imitate what they see.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

"At the very least it messes with their expectations in future relationships."

Only if porn is the only form of sexual education the child has ever had.  Same with violent fantasy (movies, games, books, stories, play).

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

http://www.google.com/search?q=pornography+affects+future+relationships&...

google term was: pornography affects future relationships

Regardless of other forms of sexual education, pornography does damage.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Son of a bitch.  I had an entire response typed out and my browser refreshed and cleared it.  I'm not retyping everything but I'll sum up:

Of the actual studies the conclusions are things like:

  • Violent people may watch violent pornography and are more likely to rape.
  • Watching pornography makes you think about sex.
  • Conservative attitudes about Pornography go hand in hand with Conservative attitudes about women's roles and gender equality.

Browsing sites like the APA, I'm finding that there is little actual research and what is there is either inconclusive or merely correlational (both the positive and negative effects).  Interestingly, most of the studies have conclusions that could be taken as a positive or a negative (depending on who you ask) such as:

In one study surveying 471 Dutch teens ages 13 to 18, the researchers found that the more often young people sought out online porn, the more likely they were to have a "recreational" attitude toward sex—specifically, to view sex as a purely physical function like eating or drinking

or

In the study, reported in the December 2006 Journal of Communication (Vol. 56, No. 4, pages 639–660), the team also found a relationship between porn use and the feeling that it wasn't necessary to have affection for people to have sex with them.

The rest of the stuff in your Google search consists of anecdotal evidence of specific people with specific problems manifesting themselves as addictions to porn or a discomfort with their partner's porn viewing habits.  Neither seems to be caused by the porn.  Instead, porn seems to be merely a symptom of another problem.

It's the same with all the anecdotal evidence levied at video games for causing relationship problems.  Have some people killed their social relationships by devoting all their resources to gaming?  Yep.  Is the game causing them to do that?  No.

From what I'm reading, blaming porn for relationship difficulties is as silly as blaming children, money, or a combination of barking dogs and video games.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

I'm sorry, that google search was meant to kick it off. If you want a more blunt google search and assertion, I'm saying that pornography objectifies women (and men if it's gay porn) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen...

That much can be found in actual studies.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

I'd say hetero porn objectifies both men and women (mostly men).  But that's the point (damn near the definition) of a lot of porn.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

I disagree with the notion that consoles should be dropped completely simply because they have network connections built in and violent games that can be played on them.  The Wii and PS3 have full browsers on them and all three systems, in one manner or another, have either video chat, voice chat, or both.  But the main thing is that, as a parent, you can easily password lock the console to control what happens with it.  You can block the internet access on the Wii and PS3 or lock them behind passwords.  You can create "child" accounts that can have open gameplay options online for the 360..but not allow chat, video, purchases...even control who can and not not be friends with this person.  My son can play any of my consoles at home and I don't have to worry.  Not because these things are implemented...but simply because I took the time to TEACH AND TALK TO MY CHILDREN about the games and what is ok...or not...to play.  He can choose his own games easily by weeding out what is out of his rating range by himself, then me and my wife can make the final decision from there. 

And as far as him playing online, I choose some friends and family of mine that he is allowed to play with for games like Bomberman Live and such, but I don't let him have voice chat or camera access.  Problem solved.  Any friend that I allow to show up on his list is aware of his limitations as well.

It's easier to lock down a system, or teach someone how to do it, than it is to lock down PC's for some people. 

Zen a.k.a. Jeremy Powers
Panama City, Fl.
www.ZensPath.com

Zen aka Jeremy Powers
Editor and Host of the Zenspath Podcast (now on iTunes)
www.ZensPath.com
XBL: "PsychoticZen" PSN: "Zenspath"
Nintendo Network: "Psychoticzen", 3DS: "0860-3238-7260

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

The current ratings system could be worse. It could revert back to the old method in which companies that made games rated their own products. Eventually that was dropped in favor of a less bias one, that wasn’t owned by the developers and was used by all companies. That one eventually became the ESRB. The current system works just fine, particularly since it is not strictly mandatory. But you are right in that parents need to be involved with their children.

Though personally I think it is downright silly that parents would need to rely on even that to figure out what’s in a game. Most of the time you can guess quite accurately whats going to be in the game by examining the game box (Title,cover art, and description).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Responsibility: Something that everyone has, but no one seems to want when something goes wrong. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

well, this would imply that parents arent:

lazy

stressed

trying to control said child

in a hurry

or themselves a gamer (kid went through thier 'M' rated stash)

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

If the parents are lazy, they need to get moving.

If the parents are stressed, they're normal! Congrats.

If the parents are trying to control said child, then take the damn privelage away.

If the parents are in a hurry, they need to slow down enough to consider if they have the time to deal with monitoring their kids.

If the parents are themselves a gamer, they should already know how to use parental controls or multiple users on an operating system.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

The public schools that are mandatory and unavoidable

Technically speaking it's schooling that's mandatory and unavoidable. Going to private school is still an option if you don't mind paying more.

-Gray17

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Only if you have a huge shitload of money, pardon my french. Tuition at the 'cheap' private school here in oklahoma-where the cost of living is near lowest in the nation-is close to 10,000 dollars a semester for kindergarten to fifth grade.

The thing about it is you're STILL paying for public schools. If the U.S. K-12 public school system was set up for education instead of cushy jobs, then it'd be better. Education should not be mandatory-GOOD education should be mandatory.

(An example of public schools being done right : http://www.newsweek.com/id/154901 short and sweet : Crazy lady says "Good teachers can get 100K or more if they give up job security and are teaching students well.")

 

Edit:More of a response to the first post than I anticipated, I'm not going to be able to reply to everyone. Before you guys get too pissed off at me, remember that I am a gamer, and I'm moderate politically. XD;

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California Ruling

Idiot. This is not about kids. Its about publishers. You cant violate the rights of publishers because kids are different than adults. People who try to bend the constitution to their own will will stop at nothing to decieve and twist the truth.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California Ruling

Not surprising, but it only makes Yee look even more idiotic than before.  Just doesn't know when to throw in the towel, does he?

 

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Good. Get this issue to the Supreme Court so we can get games protected under the First Amendment ONCE AND FOR ALL.

I'm so tired of this crap...

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

You and me both brother.  Can't wait for this older generation to get the fuck out of power so we don't have to worry about these technophobes trying to legislate things they don't understand or at least don't care to understand.

 

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

damnant quod non intelligunt

lawyers are supposed to learn latin (most of the legal jargin is IN latin), but that doesnt mean even half of them can read that. which means they have NO IDEA what theyre talking about.

 

 

P.S. it roughly means "they condemn what they dont know", its from vergil.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

The funny thing is we can already start wielding some power by rallying together and telling them what we want. If the gamers In Cally all signed a petition for them to drop this nonsense while spreading the word, they will likely hesitate in their actions. It is dangerous to ignore a document or public statement from hundreds of thousands of people, particularly registered voters.

Also the minimum age for a congressman is 25, and a senator 30. The average gamer is between 20 and 30 last time i checked. Heck give me 3 more years and I might just aim for being a Congressman myself since I am sick of these old farts who have been around since my father was in His 20s.

 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Responsibility: Something that everyone has, but no one seems to want when something goes wrong. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Yes. That way we can start legislating things we don't understand.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Sadly, you're probably correct.  As much as I would like to think I won't become a knee-jerk fool towards new things, who can really say in about 30 years?

Now get off my lawn!  (Gotta practice.)

 

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

On the flip side, the latest generation has been unusal in it's acceptance of new things and cultures.  Unlike previous generations (in general) we grew up with instant access to information from around the world and constant exposure to a large varaity of viewpoints and cultures.

While we can't escape human behavior as we age, our unique youth may very well cause a differnt outcome.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

"While I am deeply disappointed in today’s ruling, we should not stop our efforts to assist parents in keeping these harmful video games out of the hands of children."

The parents are the ones to blame for kids under 17 getting M rated games. The kids can't buy the games themselves, so they'll bitch and moan to their parents until they give in. I bought my first M rated game back in 2000, and was 19 at the time.

When Jack Thompson runs his mouth, does anyone really care what he has to say anymore?

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

   From the way you are talking, it seems that you see the ESRB ratings more as rules rather than guidelines. What is wrong with someone under 17 haveing an M rated game? Ok I'm not saying for small children, but what about teenagers?

   The appropiateness of a game for anyone should be based on the peron in question's maturity level. I beleive that the average person reaches a respectable maturity level around 13-15. That is why I think that there is nothing wrong with someone 13-17 playing, owning, or even buying an M rated game, as long as they understand what is/ isn't acceptable in real life. I meet young people all the time on Xbox live, does that mean that they will be worse people because of it? NO!

   What difference does a year make? I admit, I'm most likely a lttle abnormal, I started playing Doom with my uncle at 4 ;) He dam near lost his hearing when my mom found out, but that's just a mother's protective side kicking in. I haven't killed anyone so maybe all the psychologists may be a little off in their analysis, oh wait we all know that...

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

And even if the kids somehow get ahold of the games the parents can still set parental controls on the consoles so that Johnny can't play anything M rated. They have them this gen and they had them last gen (I think).

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

"In fact, the high court recently agreed, in Roper v. Simmons (2005), that we need to treat children differently in the eyes of the law due to brain development."

That is a ridiculously tenuous link, Yee.  Roper v. Simmons only says you can't put kids to death because of the Eighth Amendment and the fact that kids are kids.  It doesn't cite particular studies and it certainly doesn't absolve kids of responsibility.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

He is probably hoping that people go 'oh! he sited a supream court case! he must know what he is talking about!' rather then actually taking the 20 seconds to look up what the case involved.

That or he is suggesting that allowing children to get ahold of violent video games is equivelent to sentancing them to death.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

To be fair, I believe all he's saying is that there is a precedent to legally treat children differently from adults and in the most basic sense, that's true.

But it's an enormous jump from "you can't put kids to death because they're kids" to "we can legislate game sales to minors because they're kids."

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

"To be fair, I believe all he's saying is that there is a precedent to legally treat children differently from adults ..."

Except that such been the case long since before Roper v. Simmons. Just take a look at pornography laws and how the courts distinguish between what's obscene and illegal, and what's harmful to minors and can't be sold to kids but is legal for adults.

That, at least, would be a relevant example, since it concerns speech (pornography) rather than capital punishment. Of course, the fact that the courts have struck down laws that aim to set a "harmful to minors" standard for violent video games keeps Yee from employing such an analogy.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Exactly my point.  It's just as absurd a leap as comparing video games to drugs and alcohol.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

agreed, horrible horrible link to make.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Ah Yee, treating children differently or not, can simply be done at the expense of the parent, and not the government's.

A law isn't needed to keep your children from these games, and throwing away money to make it law doesn't help at all for your "cause."

The first amendment is pretty absolute in this game, especially when no one's well-being is at risk from these games simply being sold at the discretion of parents.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

You can "assist" parents with that all you custom essay | essay service | buy essay want, but many of them are still going to buy M-rated games for their kids. At that point you just have to do what society seems to hate doing the most: *gasp* actually hold a parent responsible for parenting! essay | essay writing | essay help

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Take that sir,

 

But hey the good news is that the first amendment triamph and at least the court shows common sense that violent are not created by video game.  Also, be proud that California is out of the budget crisis (I don't know for how long).

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

We are?  Since when?  (I live in Sacramento)

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Oh don't tell me you don't watch your own local news.

 

CNN just said the budget crisis had just ended.

Re: Leland Yee Urges Supreme Court Appeal of California ...

Passing the new budget is good news, to be sure.  I think I was thinking more along the lines of the financial state of CA in general.  Until that deficit is actually gone, however, I'm going to hold off on the ticker tape parade.

"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde

"De minimus non curat lex"
 
Forgot your password?
Username :
Password :

Poll

Which video game platform are you most thankful for?:

Shout box

You're not permitted to post shouts.
Matthew Wilsonhttp://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/25/lee-rigby-report-internet-firms-safe-haven-terrorists-pm wow... come on uk really?11/28/2014 - 2:39pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/11/two_tetris_downloads_to_be_removed_from_the_3ds_eshop_in_europe Tetris to be removed from the 3DS VC at the end of the year in Europe. Other regions unknown, but will probably all happen too.11/28/2014 - 9:16am
Andrew EisenThe story you just linked to? The story you asked if anyone had seen? Yes, THAT obnoxiousness. I've heard it parroted for nearly two years now.11/27/2014 - 7:57pm
ZippyDSMleeAndrew Eisen: That shes an ex con man?11/27/2014 - 7:54pm
Andrew EisenI've heard the same obnoxious horse poo for years. It's nothing new.11/27/2014 - 7:45pm
ZippyDSMleeAlso anyone see this? http://guardianlv.com/2014/11/anita-sarkeesian-unmasked-feminist-icon-or-con-artist/11/27/2014 - 7:28pm
ZippyDSMleeEvil within is a badly designed game.11/27/2014 - 7:28pm
Andrew EisenSure but you said "widens," hence my confusion. Looking into it, yep, there's a tweak to completely re-frame the image, adding more info at the top and bottom. You apparently need a fairly beefy rig to keep it running smooth when you do that though.11/27/2014 - 6:48pm
Matthew Wilsonthere is vertical fov, not just horizontal fov11/27/2014 - 6:38pm
Andrew EisenWell, you can widen it to 3:1 or even 10:1 but I don't know why you'd want to. From what I understand it's the missing visual info at the top and bottom that some object to, not that there isn't enough on either side.11/27/2014 - 6:36pm
Matthew WilsonI think it widenss the fov, so you get to see more.11/27/2014 - 6:31pm
Andrew EisenI don't see how as doing so would not add any visual information to the top or bottom of the screen.11/27/2014 - 6:04pm
Matthew Wilsonfrom what I read, getting rid of the black bars and stretching it out made for a better play experience.11/27/2014 - 5:59pm
Andrew EisenFrom what I hear, there's a ton of "look up and shoot at the guys above you" stuff in the game that the wider frame doesn't accommodate such actions well.11/27/2014 - 5:55pm
Andrew EisenHaving a game run in scope is not necessarily a bad thing but like any aspect ratio, you have to compose your shots correctly.11/27/2014 - 5:55pm
Neo_DrKefkaThe Evil Within was pretty bad and to make it worse the way the screen size made it hard for you to see even on a big screen it really hurt the game. Being Artistic is great but when you focus on art rather than what sells you run the risk of that happen11/27/2014 - 5:33pm
Matthew WilsonI kinda hope this is not true. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/11/nintendo_might_not_be_making_more_gamecube_controller_adapters_at_the_moment11/27/2014 - 1:34pm
Matthew WilsonI saw that. I wish people would stop preording, but sadly that will never happen.11/27/2014 - 1:26pm
Papa MidnightUbisoft has cancelled the Season Pass for Assassin's Creed: Unity (http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/2ni2ac/ubisoft_cancel_season_pass_for_ac_unity/)11/27/2014 - 1:08pm
NeenekoBut now I can use the christmas discount justification too,11/27/2014 - 11:46am
 

Be Heard - Contact Your Politician