He wasn't on hand to testify and his name wasn't mentioned, but the influence of disbarred Miami attorney Jack Thompson was apparent in yesterday's meeting of the Business and Labor Committee of the Utah House of Representatives.
By a 10-3 vote, committee members approved H.B. 353, a bill drafted by Thompson and sponsored by Rep. Mike Morley. The measure targets the video game and film industries by amending Utah's current Truth in Advertising law. Retailers and movie theaters which advertise that they don't sell M-rated games or R-rated movie tickets to underage buyers and then do so would be liable for fines of $2,000 per incident.
Those testifying on behalf of the bill included Alan Osmond, the most senior of the Osmond Brothers vocal group and Gayle Ruzicka, the politically powerful head of the ultra-conservative Utah Eagle Forum.
For his part, Osmond, read into the record verbatim passages from an e-mail circulated earlier yesterday by Thompson. Osmond, however, did not identify Thompson as the author:
This link shows a montage of sex scenes from the Grand Theft Auto IV game which has been sold and is presently being sold at BestBuy.com, WalMart.com, Target.com, GameStop.com, and at other retailers’ sites, with no age verification whatsoever.
As you can see, there are graphically depicted lap dances in a “gentleman’s club” in this game, including simulation of oral/anal sexual intercourse between women. The hero in the game then has intercourse, clearly depicted... The hero then kills the woman by gunfire and running her over with his car.
Now that’s entertainment...
Utah must do something about these major retailers who are flat-out lying to the public when they assert they are not selling this and other similar pornographic “games” to kids when in fact they are...
Conservative power broker Gayle Ruzicka also testified on behalf of the bill with a Thompson-esque flavor, mentioning Devin Moore, the GTA-playing Alabama teen who murdered three police officers in 2004. Thompson, representing the officers' families, subsequently brought suit against Rockstar Games, Sony and others before being thrown off the case by an Alabama judge for professional conduct violations in November, 2005.
For those familiar with Thompson's anti-GTA crusade, Ruzicka's testimony had a familiar tone:
These [games] are the kind of things that are training our children. This is the vile stuff. The Grand Theft Auto games are cop-killing murder simulators. And when [Devin Moore] was faced with being arrested he knew exactly what to do. He knew how to aim... at the head and each time killed these [officers]. We don't want this for our children. Not at all. Please, please vote yes today on this bill.
Anything we can do to protect our children from the violence, from the filthy pornography that the only way they can get into the pornography is being good at the game. They work hard and get to certain levels and when they get to the high enough levels then they get into the pornography - filthy, vile stuff that you would be appalled and never want your children to see. And then as a reward, they get to kill the women...
Dick Cornell of the Utah Association of Theater Owners was among those who testified against the bill:
Theater owners have taken pride in enforcing [MPAA] ratings... There isn't any forgiveness in this [bill] for an intent by someone else to deceive us, so we would be penalized for that...
One thing that we're very susceptible for in this legislation is that we would be penalized if there was a ticket purchase over... online or on the ticket kiosk. Because as soon as that purchase was made... we would be in violation of this law... We know of some theaters here in Utah that 40% of the ticket sales are done through a kiosk or online purchases... We have theaters that will on the weekend pull in 10,000 people of a Saturday. The chances of exceeding this [bill's] limit, it's possible, even though our intent to keep the kids out.
This bill really discourages compliance with our voluntary system. The only protection that we would have if this passes is to not follow the enforcement rules... And we don't want to do that...
Oddly enough, Rep. Morley said that it was not his intent to have the proposal apply to movie tickets, although the language of the measure would seem to encompass theaters.
HB 353 will now move on to the full Utah House for consideration.
AUDIO FILE: Listen as the committee considers the bill (53mb, 58 mins, mp3).




Comments
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Yes, but there is a huge difference between that and saying that the Church itself is shaping politics.
For example, while I have a tendancy to vote for things that do not contridict my religious views, I have never been told by the LDS church to vote in a specific way or for a specific person.
You could say the same thing about the current Democrat crontrolled Legislature. The Demacratic party is controlling US politics.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
The Church doesn't have to tell the Utah Legislature how to vote. It's got a proxy in the form of Gayle Ruzicka to do just that for it.
And of course you could say that a Democrat-controlled Congress, by virtue of their majority votes, dictates the laws that Congress passes. And, assuming that Congresspersons by and large vote along their party lines -- which they do -- you'd be correct in saying that the Democratic Party is, by turn, dictating the laws that Congress passes.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
AS far as I know, Gayle Ruzicka has no position of influence in the church. As far as I know the Eagle forum is not sanctioned by the church.
So to say that the Church is using her to influence politics is just a much a falacy as claiming the church is doing it directly.
It seems to me that you are trying to make a connection that is either not there or is present in any organized group of people.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Ruziack is the Relief Society Teacher in her LDS ward. That's a fairly influencial position in the Church. But that's beside the point. The point is that you can randomly grab just about anything in the State of Utah, scratch beyond the surface, and you will find LDS. Plain, simple, and, as far as I am concerned, beyond dispute. And this isn't some sort of normative judgement or intended as a perjorative. It's just a fact.
To prove the point, take the executive membership of Utah Eagle Forum (i.e., President, Vice-President, Treasurer, etc.). I'll bet you a dollar to your donut that the entire executive membership are also LDS. If so, who needs official LDS sanction? Utah Eagle Forum is, by extension and in effect, the Church of Latter Day Saints.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
That's just alocal position. Meaning she has no influence outside the congregation she teaches in. Any political influence she has comes as a direct result of her position in the Eagle Forum.
I guess it would be fact that with any bill or law if you dig deep enough has a basis in the personal position of the author of said bill or law.
I am just trying to point out that this is not a unique phenomena in Utah or the LDS church.
Also, that group could get in some major trouble if they ever implied that they have sanction from the LDS church to do anything. THe LDS church makes it very clear that they do not support or sanction any group that is not an actual part of the LDS church. Meaning political parties, watchdog groups etc. are not and never will have a church sanction.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
That's not exactly what you were saying before, EZK. What you were saying before, paraphrased, is that LDS has little to no influence over Utah's legislative process or other political processes. Which simply is not the case. Their influence thoroughly permeates every level of Utah's political processes. Again, I'm not saying that this is a good thing or a bad thing. But it certainly is a thing.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
No, what I was saying before was that the LDS church has no influence on the political process. Meaning the leadership of the church will not come out and tell their members to vote a certain way or for certain people. They will not go to members of the church who hold political office and tell them how to vote on issues and bills.
The beliefs held by LDS members on the other hand is a different story and I concede that point.
Any person of faith (or without faith) will generally have their position influenced by their personal view. Whether they act on that or on what they consider the greater good for all is another story as well.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Take away the members of a church and what are you left with? Nothing. A church's membership is the physical and practical embodiment of the church's doctrines, without which those doctrines mean nothing -- other than in some theoretical or academic way.
"You are Peter and upon you I shall build my Church."
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
And...
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
. . . Peter went out and spread the Lord's doctrine.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
I'm still missing some kind of point here.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
That the division between "church" and "church membership" which you attempt to draw is meaningless.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
And the illusion of influence between the church and government is pretty meaningless as well.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Which I guess explains why running on an anti-Mormon platform appeals to all those candidates for the Utah Legislature.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
So, someone runs on a patform that the LDS church is evil corrupt or whatever in Utah, and doesn't get elected. So that automatically means that Church held some influence on all the voters position.
Next you will say that someone who runs on the platform of creationism is wrong and doesn't get elected it will be because all the Churches who teach creationism influenced the vote.
The point is, why would I vote for someone who considers me either evil or stupid?
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Not automatically, no. But it could be one of the possible conclusions to be drawn.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Hey, it's getting a little tight over here!
Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Bundle!
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Help, help, I being compressed!
There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Well
played.
"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Sufficating here. This bill seems pointless to me still.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
The concept is called "Young Earth Creationism" and it's a significant element in the Christian attack on science and reason.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
http://creationontheweb.com/
http://www.icr.org/
http://www.creationsafaris.com/bisci.htm
http://www.creationmuseum.org/
As for the Dinosaurs not existing, I have nothing in my bookmarks at the ready, but I've met them. A group when I was in college called RU For Christ actually held a "scientific" lecture about this.
Sorry, but Christian Zealots are just as guilty of trying to rewrite history and science to coincide with their Bible as they are in destroying free speech.
That is true evil.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
We got them as well. One of the classes I had in fifth grade at high school involved evolution. Apparently once a pupil said to the teacher "I did this test for you but I still don't believe it."
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Jack Thompson.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
A winrar is you!
http://treasurebin.blogspot.com Game reviews from the bottom of the bargain bin
Treasure bin: Cult Hits, chea pass gaming options, and rants about gaming in general
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Ummm...Generalization much?
Mormon here who hates this bill. I have also read comments from a number of Utah residents both Mormon and not who hate this bill.
This is more Politics and agenda mongering than it is a Mormon issue.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
My apologies for that earlier comment. It was rude of me to paint an entire community with a broad brush. That, and I haven't been back for months - I spent a good deal reading up on Thomas Paine, and have since given up on organized religion as a whole. While my dispisition on faith has changed considerably since I was gone, that doesn't excuse my behavior. Once again, sorry for acting like such a douche.
Getting back on topic, it pisses me off that legislators are actually stupid enough to follow Jack's lead. Most of you have already said every bit of nastiness I can imagine for our beloved anti-gaming crusader/loon, so I'll just way what I can surmise since my absence...
HOLY SHIT - he's still alive?
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
I don't see what Mormons specifically have to do with it.
Aren't the Eagles Forums of other Christians sects? Considering the Traitor John Bruce is Presbyterian and has already made Anti-Mormon comments, I'd suspect the Eagles Forum, even the Utah branch, isn't primarily of the Mormon sect.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah ...
Uh, if I may digress from the subject, Nightwing, I notice you always refer to the organization as the "Eagles Forum" or "Eagles Forums" like you just did there. I just wanted to point out that the proper name is the "Eagle Forum." Singular, not plural. Referring to tham as the "Eagles Forum" makes me think that it's being run by the football team!
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
that's great...now if someone can tell me what it's going to do because...uh, i'm not really seeing a difference from what's already being done (carding minors).
Not to mention the huge loop-hole (they don't advertise perfection, they're not liable).
i'm liking the bold button this morning.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
what its going to do is mean retailers (like the head of the theatres is saying in his quote) are going to STOP carding individuals.
They arent legally obliged to do it. Like the theatre guy says, if you sell 10,000 tickets on a weekend, SOMEONE is going to get through underage. The only way to avoid this bill is to not have a policy to card individuals.
Step 1) So the bill will pass, and retailers can simply stop carding individuals. So 13 yr old Johnny can easily buy 15+ rated games.
Step 2) ????????
Step 3) Kids dont have access to these games and are protected from the 'pornography and filth' they contain.
What... im missing step 2?
What do you mean , of course stopping carding will reduce underage kids getting games. didnt you see step 2???
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Or a store can simply say "We reserve the right to card and not sell games based on age." My friend once wasn't allowed to buy an M game at Walmart when he was 17 >.>
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Ooooh, good one! You don't say it's policy, so they can't blame you if you don't always do it and certainly can't claim you're advertizing you won't do it!
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Have fun paying the legal fees, Utah. So far the industry has a perfect score of 9 out of 9. I wouldn't bet on this bill holding up no matter what the odds.
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Maybe 10'll be the magic number. (They think tenth time's the charm, we hope that after 10 failures they'll give the hell up.)
Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Man, both Ruzika and Thompson has very VERY sick minds.
Re:Jack Thompson Retard Bill Overwhelmingly Approved byUtahHouse
At least three people were intelligent enough to see through the bullshit spewed by Thompson's tools and voted against this piece of shit bill.
Ruzicka lied about the aspects of the Devin "Lionel Tate wannabe" Moore case, so I guess she'll be up for a perjury charge, and Donny and Marie's older brother as well for making Thompson's e-mail sound like it was his own words and for lying about one thing that isn't even in GTAIV.
I looked up the bill yesterday and found that they changed the wording of the bill from "under" to "subject to":
http://le.utah.gov/~2009/pamend/hb0353.hca.01.htm
I should also say that yesterday I found that Target doesn't even have their ID policy "advertised" in their store, so Target's immune from this bill apparently.
Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.
Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Hold on just a second....where is this 'graphic depiction' of oral/anal intercourse in GTA??
Because damned if I saw it....and I got the 100% achievement. =/
Now I feel like I'm missing out.
No offense to the Americans on this board, but anyone saying this sorta stuff on our side of the pond would be instantly ridiculed and politcally-distanced by pretty much everyone with a reputation they were worried about. Seems to be over in America where all these religious crazy types are left to flourish.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Well, some of their ancestors did leave the UK to live in the Americas for religious freedom. And look at where that has gotten us :P
GameSnooper
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Except that over-PC-zealous attention-wh*re fascist, Keith Vaz of course
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
"As you can see, there are graphically depicted lap dances in a “gentleman’s club” in this game, including simulation of oral/anal sexual intercourse between women."
Where the hell is that in the game???!?!?!? How is that even possible (unless the women have a dual-head vibrator) ?????!?!??!!?
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
"As you can see, there are graphically depicted lap dances in a “gentleman’s club” in this game, including simulation of oral/anal sexual intercourse between women."
That's how it's in the game. They mean during the lap dances if you stay around till the other girl shows up. They make sexual motions at each other.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Or futanari. Don't forget futa.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Heh. I like to blame instances like this one on you guys across the pond. See what happens when you let us have our way with things? ^^
"HEY! LISTEN!"
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
England has Keith Vaz - he's the European Jack Thompson.
And I too missed the graphic depiction of oral/anal intercourse and my character never got to have graphic sex with a hooker. Is there another version of this game that I missed?
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Also don't forget that Australia has a certain Michael Atkinson who has been holding back the R18+ rating for Videogames for almost over a decade.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
He's refering to the lap dances.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Wasn't it someone on YOUR side of the pond that claimed video games had widespread pornographic in adult rated games then managed to discover the wonderful world of H-Games with Rapelay? Why yes it was...
Any country that has politicians capable of public speech (read: any) has politicians capable of distorting and lying to get support and votes. This isn't an America only thing. It's a "Protect the sheeple" thing.
Wall of Text Simulation- Insert coin to continue.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Keith Vaz doesnt have widespread or religious supprt. He's just a one-off agenda-pushing nutcase.
Oh, and he's not going to get re-elected according to the latest forecasts. Thank GOD.
Re: Jack Thompson Bill Overwhelmingly Approved by Utah House
Pretty much what Geoff said, America is quite a big place don't forget.