We don't always agree with famed God of War designer David Jaffe, but the guy is never boring.
And so it is with Jaffe's just-posted video rant on the merits of used game sales. While Jaffe acknowledges the game consumer's right to take advantage of the best deal, he lost us by saying that the consumer has no place in the larger debate over used games:
Whenever this [used game] stuff comes up gamers get excited and upset. Developers get upset... there's all this kind of tension on the internet between developers and gamers and publishers...
The customer's always right, and look... if there's somebody out selling them legally a game for $5 whether it's a used copy or whatever, go for it. Get the best deal you can get. It's not your job to look out for the developer or the publisher or anybody except yourself...
The issue really has to do with publishers and developers and retail. I don't mean this in a mean way, like it's none of the consumers business. But literally, it's none of the consumer's business. It should not affect the consumer at all. All the consumer should worry about is. "Can I get the best deal possible...?"
GP: But, David, if you take away the used game option, how can the consumer save a buck in an industry where new product prices are de facto fixed? How can the consumer get any value out a disappointing $60 game without the option to trade it in?
Have you ever seen a young mom walk into GameStop with a little kid who is clutching maybe five bucks? It's a huge treat for a child like that to pick up a used GBA cartridge or two. The game may be old, but it's a brand-new experience to him. Who's to say that kid's only option is to buy a new game? At $19.99, maybe that new GBA game doesn't get purchased. Maybe that kid never really gets into gaming.
And, hey, while I love your work and your willingness to engage, I find your "the consumer has no say in the matter" view to be rather arrogant - even if you are just verbalizing what a lot of industry insiders are thinking.
The gamer, though, is the most important person in this equation. Publishers, retailers, developers come and go. We're currently waving goodbye to Midway. Circuit City is in the rear view, and yet gaming carries on. If consumers ever decide to move on to something else, however, it's over.
Comments
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
Except that movies do the same thing with similar sized budgets yet they manage to do it without charging $60 for a movie ticket or DVD. And NFL2K5 did it without compromising quality. NFL2K4 sold around 360,000 units, $18 million in gross sales, while 2K5 sold over 2.5 million or about $50 million in gross sales.
It's called the price elasticity of demand and it's something the industry needs to learn quick.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
Sports games are a bad example. Not only does one not need to drastically change mechanics, but IP wise nothing is involved. And they sell like candy, well, football games at least.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
IP-wise, plenty is involved. EA has exclusive rights to the NFL IP, and also exclusive rights to use the names of the players in the NFLPA. The price elasticity of demand is irrelevant when there is no other real competitor with, in this case, the Madden franchise (on retail shelves).
Haethos
Economics Major
University of California at Davis
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
NFL2K is not Madden. NFL2K4 and NFL2K5 were competing with the Madden '04 and Madden '05 titles.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
Why is that a bad example? I'm not talking about production costs, licensing or anything like that, just raw unit sales. Game at $50 sells 360,000 units. Game at $20 sells 2.5 million. That's nearly an 800 percent increase. Mechanics, IP issues have nothing to do with it.
At any rate what about Left 4 Dead? Mount and Blade? Eets? Everything that Valve has put on sale has seen unit sales go through the roof. 600 percent to 36,000 percent. That's not normal. Those kinds of sales increases indicate that something else is going on.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
What I'm saying if that you have to factor in those things. If a game costs 50 million to make (I'm talking the big big big AAA titles here) and it sells 2.5 million copies at $20 guess what, you just broke even. Now these three other titles that don't are costing you money you don't have. And sales are indeed a good idea, after the primary wave of purchases have been made. Sales are for the people you describe, the "want but don't want enought to pay $60" for.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant ...
That's true, but if you sell your game for $30, which is still cheap. BINGO! you've just made yourself $25 million!
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
And again why is it that movies, with largely the same sized budgets, labor costs, marketing campagins and so on can manage to break even or make money when they only charge $12 for a ticket and $20 for a DVD?
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
Because they have theatre sales and a much larger market.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant ...
And we'd expect that the movies would have a larger market if the games market was being restrained by a price point that's too high. If that's the case then we'd expect that when prices are adjusted we'll see unit sales move upward dramatically. And we did see that with NFL2K5 and we are seeing that with a large number of titles on Steam.
This isn't just me saying this, it's Gabe Freakin' Newell. That's not a guy I'd want to disagree with unless I really, really, really knew what I was talking about.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant ...
Movies are a bigger market because they appeal to a broader audience then games, it's not just about price point it's about comfort with the technology. It's shifting but games are still a far smaller market then movies.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant ...
Not to mention there's several revenue streams for movies. From Boxoffice, to DVD to TV rights and many others.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
What are you glaring at EA for? They put out some great stuff recently!
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
Its more of a *glare-into-time-machine-at-2004-EA* than recently. Tho I still hate them for pushing DRM. Us devs hate it as much as anyone else...I don't see why corperate doesn't listen >.<
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
But with regarding the quality in the games they put out, it has massively increased compared to the past.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
Oh definatly. Dead Space was one of the best s/h games I've played, and its use of atmosphere,sound effects, and story to almost make the player hallucinate was amazing.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant Back
I think he means that it's none of the consumers business as in the discussion of publishers and developers vs. Gamestop really has nothing to do with you. Your only concern as a consumer is getting the best deal possible and getting the most enjoyment out of what you purchased.
It's worded pretty poorly in the end, but I kinda (emphisis on kinda) get what he's talking about.
But I feel that I am a consumer that supports the artistic visions of the developer and even publisher at times. I purchase all the latest games new because I support what they do and encuraging them to do more of it. I could have purchased Battlefield: Bad Company at literally half the cost used, but I want to support DICE and what they do. Same with Dead Space and Street Fighter 4.
Re: God of War's David Jaffe Rants on Used Games & We Rant ...
Yeah but I'm poor and I wouldn't play most games if I couldn't of gotten them used. Sometimes newer games, sometimes older. Same with Renting.