Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

March 12, 2009 -

Despite the Utah State Senate's passage of HB 353 by an overwhelming 25-4 margin, the bill is racing against the clock to survive.

Because the Senate amended the bill (more about that later) it now must go back to the Utah House for approval.

The catch is, that all has to happen by midnight in Salt Lake City. Which means that, as I write this, there are about 5.5 hours to get this done. The House is on a dinner break at this moment, which ends at 7:00 P.M. their time, leaving five hours of actual time to work on legislative business.

It seems doable, but HB 353 isn't listed on the House activity calendar yet, so...

UPDATE: Jack Thompson, who drafted the original version of the bill, commented on the time pressure in an e-mail to GamePolitics:

Now it's back to the House with the amended Senate bill, which applies to all sales, including Internet sales. This is fun, and the question is, does it strike midnight before we win?

UPDATE 2: HB 353 status page shows that the House has concurred with the Senate amendments. Next stop for the bill is Gov. Huntsman's desk.


Comments

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

"God Warriors" think that they are above morality because they are doing their master's work.  As long as you think you are serving God, then these sociopaths think they can do anything.  That's why they don't care that they are destroying America with their bullshit.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Fuck Utah. Fuck Christian Zealots. Fuck America if bills like this are going to be passed. 

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

There is one thing in this bill that I have been wondering for sometime.

Now, everyone pretty much now knows that all the retailers has to do is say "we don't card people" and tell all the clerks that "no, we don't fire/suspend you if you sell M rated game to 12 year old" and they have no trouble.

But, the bill also has this line

(u) (i) advertises that the person will not H. [ sell ] provide .H a good or service labeled

83a     with an age
84      restriction or recommendation

Notice the word restriction. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but in USA, porn movies fall under age restriction category right?

So here comes the question I have been wondering. If sex store clerk sells porn movie to underage, does that mean (if it's written in law) that guilty party for false advertisement in this case is goverment?

 

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

No, it means that there's a kid somewhere who's spanking his monkey like there's no tomorrow.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

The only thing assured is this bill's inevitable destruction, not Thompson's little "victory"

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Im actually hoping the bill does pass cause i really want to see what goes on from here, And i dont even live in utah.

 

Jack's saying of "We" only means him, He knows some of the politician's he got into his little "Fun" dont really have no idea about the bill's possible real purpose.

Magic Taco

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Yes, I think Young consumers can lie about thier age, Another fatal flaw of Thompson's video game law

Thompson, you Lost,  The minute Morely amended your Law it was no longer drafted by you, Just give up

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Actually, its latest amendment lists that they have to provide false identification, though it's surrounded by S-symbols that I don't know the meaning of.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Now they need a fake ID to get the game, WTF

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

"We reserve the right to card" as store policy listed inside the store still is well enough to cover, since you'd have to advertize stuff regarding the rating, not just show the rating.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

The S-symbols are the Senate additions to the bill, the H-symbols are the House additions.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Im sorry for the comments yesterday, I think because that video game bill is going nowhere(reguardless if Thompsons says Constutional or Not

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

"This is fun, and the question is, does it strike midnight before we win?"

Who's "we"? You wrote it, they took it, and forgot/dind't want to mention you untill they were corrected by the press.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

And once again, the terms "Jack Thompson" and "win" are proven to be mutually exclusive.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

And after the Gov. signs it, the next step is a courthouse, where it will almost assuredly be struck down.

And if that happens, congradulations Utah!  You just spent hundreds of thousands of the taxpayers dollars (legal fees) with nothing to show for it!  Yay, pats on the back for everyone!

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

I am rather looking forward to a lawsuit because it would be quite interesting to see arguments made in such a different case than the normal anti-games laws.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

midnight has come, who won? i really want to know :S

 

Utah- Male- 20- Owner of PS3, Wii, 360.

Utah- Male- 20- Owner of PS3, Wii, 360.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Since it went to the Governor and I assume he actually gets time to study it, there's no clear victor yet since the actual use of the law is still under debate.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

No clue! But I'm certain amazon.com and other e-tailers will appreciate your business when this bill passes!


Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

"Now it's back to the House with the amended Senate bill, which applies to all sales, including Internet sales. This is fun, and the question is, does it strike midnight before we win?"

No, because if it strikes midnight, then the bill is dead in the water, therefore you automatically lose. Kind of an odd question to ask really.
---
I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.


---
I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

so... in Utah selling an M rated videogame to an underage buyer when your company has promised not to is bad, but, and follow me here.... polygamy is okay? wtf?

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

I remember hearing a study somewhere that of around 1500 societies that lived in the past, around 900 of them allowed polygamy.  Not only that, but polygamy is generally looked at as being more in line with male evolutionary sexual psychology, suggesting that it actually has its' place.

However, all of that is beside the point when you realize that what you said is remarkably ignorant.  Polygamy is no more legal in Utah than it is in any of the other 49 states.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

my apologies, i was not inferring that it may be a legal action, my point was that there are bigger issues to deal with in society these days rather than focusing on useless legislation

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Not only is it illegal in all 50 states, including Utah, it is prohibited by the teachings of the Church of Latter-Day Saints (See, EZK? I can play both sides of the aisle.)

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

A classic example of legislation ignoring blatantly obvious, more easily corrected flaws in other legislation based on religious preference. People of all religious views do it-including atheists-and to every other group it's obnoxious and stupid.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

No company in their right mind is going to bother taking any unneccasary risks in Utah, nor are any game developers going to bother setting up shop there.

World of Warcraft : 11 million players at ~13 dollars a month giving a rough average. A single product bringing in >150 million a month. That right there is what I call some SERIOUS taxable income.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

heres the deal for me.... i live in utah, i worked at a video game store in utah for two years. every employee where i work truly meant it when they talked to parents about M rated games. Nothing pissed me off more than the stupid parents who don't care what we had to say, and would buy there kids GTAIV or Manhunt 2. Sadly, that for me proves this bill is a mistake, parents who are educated generally make the right decision, sadly not all do. I feel that all this bill will do is make things worse, it truly is about educating the parents.

 

jack thompson, if you read this. You are the devil himself, look at the things you write to game politics! you are an attention whore. From the things I've seen, and read about you doing, I know for a fact that if there is a God, you are not on his side. You are just a false prophet who thinks he can change the world, when all he is doing is bringing the world to hell itself. congrats to you and your many useless journeys, and please. Get out of my state.

 

(what i mean from all this, is that ESRB is as good as it will get. holding companies with values hostage won't be a good thing in any form of way! there should be bills passed requiring bringing attention to the issues at hand.)

Utah- Male- 20- Owner of PS3, Wii, 360.

Utah- Male- 20- Owner of PS3, Wii, 360.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

If you live in Utah, perhaps you could ask Senator Dayton why the amendment making clear a rating on the box is not an advertizement was removed? I myself wonder if that is because they consider it an advertizement, or if they did not deem it necessary.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

I'm happy to hear that someone takes their responsibilities in this multi-faceted issue seriously. Thank you for educating parents!

Jack Thompson doesn't believe he's doing good, he doesn't believe he's helping anybody but the game companies. The man passed law school and practiced law for many years-then threw it all away in what can be described a giant pissy fit. Somebody paid him to do this, and paid him well, and it isn't the pro-censorship side, but the anti-regulation side. (I put myself at the pro-regulation anti-censorship side)

We can expect Jack Thompson to single handedly do more good for the anti-regulation anti-censorship movements than the ECA and all of its readers could combined, simply because he consistantly demonstrates that he is more unstable than the people he claims are the dangers to society.

I think it takes someone that suffered a late onset of mental illness, such as manic depression/bi-polar (which his actions tend to exhibit) or he's someone that's really a public relations mastermind martyring himself to a cause he's pretending to 'fight against', to do what he does.

We should thank Jack, his sacrifice of his dignity and his job to educate the masses on how violent video games pose absolutely no threat to today's children will be forgotten, or we should pity him. Something horrible happened in his mind and his life, before he started burning bridges with everyone around him, became a living hell in his own psyche.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Has the govener signed the bill or is it too late?

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

It hasn't even reached his desk yet. The governor can sign or veto it whenever he wants at this point.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

what if the governor vetos it? i realize that probably won't happen, but if it is veto, does it die, or can the whole process start over again?

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

If the governor vetoes it, it dies, since the legislature would be unable to override the veto, as they adjourn at midnight tonight(unless they call a special session sometime later this year). They'd have to start over in 2010.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

I think this is all a bit of a Cinderella act to be honest.

Because even if the Law does get passed by midnight, then there will be some oposition by the Videogame Industry and also the ESRB and also by Rockstar and Take Two against the Eagle Forum for slander for trying to like the GTA games to the murder case.

Also looking at the ammount of slander that the Eagle Forum used to sell this legislation to the Utah politicians, yeah, I could see some real issues even if it is not Freedom of Speech issues, but it is deffinately Slander issues if people have to say in court that they will tell the truth.

 

I wonder how long it would be because at least someone in the industry stands up and ask these people that there has been allot of evidence that violent videogames are NOT responsible for violence in real life.

Like something like that has to happen one day before all this shit ends?

 

TBoneTony

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

the question is, does it strike midnight before we win?

umm... if it strikes midnight before, that counts as a loss for Jack. seems he thinks every racehorse wins if they cross the finish line, which sort of reminds me of this conversation from the Futurama episode "The Luck of the Fryrish":

Leela: How'd you do, Fry?

Fry: I'll tell you when my horse finishes... bad.

岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

It's #6 on the commerce calandar

Edit: now #5

Edit again: it's Now #4

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

What does that mean?

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

For shits and giggles the retailers should now advertise that they will never ID anyone reglardless of age.  And because of this laughable law they would have no choice but to not to ID anyone.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

They could also simply say that they reserve the right to request ID but are not required to do so. No promise == no false advertising.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Amusingly enough, I have already done just that, an anticipation of the passage of this bill.

http://www.rampantgames.com/blog/2009/03/rampant-games-official-statemen...

All this is is an "all clear" for lawsuit attorneys to go to town --- nothing else. I guess that's what JT meant by, "We win" - he was speaking on behalf of ambulance chasers everywhere, though he is no longer officially part of their fraternity.

This is a blow against parents as well as the retail and games industries. But hey - in these times of hardship and economic instability, I guess the Utah politicians wanted to make sure our trial lawyers didn't starve.

 

 

 

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

It's just another Law to fuel Thompsons Greed(The bernie madoff of the video game industry)

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

They're looking out for their own, since the majority of politicians are trial lawyers.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

With a cap of $2000 on damages under the Truth in Advertising Act, ain't too many trial lawyers jumping on this -- not unless they got nothing better else to do. And if they ain't got nothing better to do than chase down $2000-a-pop cases, then they need to hurry up and get they asses out the trial game.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

We got less than 4 hrs, 30 mins Left to go before the Legislsative session ends, Keep going

F***, the House recived it

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

"...the amended Senate bill, which applies to all sales, including Internet sales." -Thompson

That's true.

However, it's hard to imagine a circumstance under which an online retailer could ever be accused of violating its "no sale to minors" policy because a minor would have to misrepresent his/her age to make the transaction.  The amended version of this bill excuses retailers when this happens.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Entirely true.

To complete an online sale of a video game, you must present a credit card number.  Many times courts have ruled that a credit card shows parental consent in the eyes of the law.

So, not only is the online retail ammendment completely uninforcible, but it fails at the utmost point of selling to minors without parental consent.  So, companies would have 2 complete means with which to defend themselves against any civil suit brought about by this ubsurd law.

So, how long did they take to actually argue this, ammend it, and pass it?  I think the people of Utah should get their money back for all that time.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

As usual, Mr. Eisen, a keen, piercing, and spot-on observation.

And one which also raises some interesting issues about the exclusively on-line seller vis-a-vis the brick and motar seller and the former's inherent inability to take advantage of the safe habor provision available to the latter regarding sale staff training and remediation and what the Equal Protection Clause imports to that situation. And what the brick and mortar seller's inability to inherently and automatically fall within the age-misrepresentation habor as does the on-line seller means with respect to the Equal Protection Clause.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

So even a small amount of filibustering (a word that people don't use enough) will pretty well kill it? 

Hopefully it won't pass, it sounds like an inefficient way to waste money, they could do that more efficiently by just sending the money straight to me, I badly need a new computer.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

Not neccessarily. I'd be surprised if when they come back, someone doesn't move to place it at the top the calendar and that motion pass. I believe that's allowed.

Re: Now, Utah Bill Races Against the Clock

That's if no member of the House objects to the amendments the Senate added to the bill.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

 
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