Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass Video Game Bill?

March 13, 2009 -

Following a lively debate last night, the Utah State Senate passed HB 353 by an overwhelming 25-4 margin.

But photos taken during the Senate debate suggest that the influence of disbarred anti-game activist Jack Thompson stretched all the way from Miami to Salt Lake City, perhaps impacting the outcome of the HB 353 vote. As GamePolitics has previously reported, the bill was originally conceived by Thompson.

One of those who rose in support of HB 353 last night was Sen. Chris Buttars (R). A strong supporter of conservative causes, Buttars has been in political hot water in recent times over controversial remarks concerning African-Americans and gays.

Speaking during the debate, Buttars recounted the story of Devin Moore, the 18-year-old Grand Theft Auto gamer who killed two police officers and a dispatcher during a 2003 rampage in an Alabama police station. Jack Thompson later filed a $600 million wrongful death suit against Rockstar, Take-Two, Sony, Wal-Mart and GameStop in the case. Thompson, however, was later thrown off the case by an Alabama judge.

Buttars also commented on the developing teenage brain - another recurring theme of Thompson's. In fact, while following the live webcast of the debate, GP issued several tweets noting the apparent Thompson influence:

Sen. Buttars up now. He is Gayle Ruzicka's ally. He is telling the Devin Moore story (GTA player who killed 3 police in Alabama).

Clearly a Jack Thompson influence here. JT sued Rockstar, Sony, GameStop, Wal-Mart over the case until judge threw him off the case in 2005

Buttars now offering brain physiology lesson, also courtesy of the man from Miami.

This morning we received an e-mail from Salt Lake Tribune columnist Glen Warchol who forwarded a pair of pictures he took during the debate last night. The photos confirm the Thompson connection. In one, Buttars is seen reading from a book while addressing the Senate. In another, Jack Thompson's 2005 book Out of Harm's Way is shown resting on Buttars's desk on the Senate floor. The audio of Buttars' comments includes this verbatim quote of NIMF head Dr. David Walsh, found on page 182 of Thompson's book:

The impulse control center of the brain, the part of the brain that enables us to think ahead, consider consequences and manage urges, that's the part of the brain right behind our forehead called the prefrontal cortex. That's under construction during the teenage years. In fact, the wiring of that is not completed until the early twenties.

After reading the passage, Buttars told his Senate colleagues:

You got a problem here. You got an epidemic here... We need to pass this bill.

GamePolitics asked Thompson to comment:

I had never heard of Buttars until you wrote about him.  I have never talked with him, never communicated with him.  I'm delighted he read from my book.  Most in the legislature, I assume have read it.  I asked nobody to read from my book, and I would never do such a thing.  But it's a fabulous book, as you know.   

DOCUMENT DUMP: Grab an mp3 of Buttars channeling Thompson during last night's Utah Senate debate (3:29, 3mb).


Comments

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Is there ANY country left that considers games to be 100% protected speech?  When the Christians and/or Nanny Staters get more anti-games laws like this in place, where else is there to go?

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Hey guys

maybe we should prove to the world that us gamers are smarter than what people think we are and actually do a bit of our own research.

Start with Wikipedia and follow the references

This is about the Prefrontal Cortex

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex

---

The most typical psychological term for functions carried out by the pre-frontal cortex area is executive function. Executive function relates to abilities to differentiate among conflicting thoughts, determine good and bad, better and best, same and different, future consequences of current activities, working toward a defined goal, prediction of outcomes, expectation based on actions, and social "control" (the ability to suppress urges that, if not suppressed, could lead to socially-unacceptable outcomes).

---

Also check our the 'executive function' hyperlink.

Basicly I can't find anywhere where it has or has not been proven that the Frefrontal Cortex is mature at the age of a person's early 20s.

But I did find that the adult brain matures at the age of 25, but that is more of a belief than fact because of the way the brain has grown and some Psychologists come to that conclusion but there is still no defined way of telling if the Prefrontal Cortex is related in any way of that conclusion.

So it may be the case that the Prefontal Cortex has been active for a long time in a person's life, but it might also mean that it fully matures earlier like in the teenage years though either nature or nurture effect  though life experiences or it may be something that happens automaticly.

Basicly, I don't think that Jack Thompson's Prefrontal Cortex has matured enough to establish that the Prefrontal Cortex matures by nature alone, so nurture in learning life skills and also relating to life experiences might have more to do with the maturity of the Prefrontal Cortex than just determining by the age of the individual.

 

Anyone got any comment of my findings?

 

TBoneTony

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Also regarding the Executive functions of the Prefrontal Cortex

---

Other important evidence for executive functions processes in the prefrontal cortex have been described. One widely-cited review article[30] emphasises the role of the medial part of the PFC in situations where executive functions are likely to be engaged – for example, where it is important to detect errors, identify situations where stimulus conflict may arise, make decisions under uncertainty, or when a reduced probability of obtaining favourable performance outcomes is detected. This review, like many others,[31] highlights interactions between medial and lateral PFC, whereby posterior medial frontal cortex signals the need for increased executive functions and sends this signal on to areas in dorsolateral prefrontal cortex that actually implement control. Yet there has been no compelling evidence at all that this view is correct, and indeed, one article showed that patients with lateral PFC damage had reduced ERN's (a putative sign of dorsomedial monitoring/error-feedback)[32] - suggesting, if anything, that the direction of flow of the control could be in the reverse direction.

---

I don't fully understand if this has anything into determining the maturity of an individuals mind, but it can be interpreted in different ways

Also take note in the way that it is said that "Yet there has been no compelling evidence at all that this view is correct," and you will see what I am trying to talk about that when it comes to Psychology, they CAN'T make generalizations because if they can't prove it, then they can't say that this is what goes on because of the likelyhood of saying misleading information.

And that is why Psychologists are more likely to need a Strong Positive Correlation in their study in order to establish a strong conclusion.

So far, all the research that has tried to say that Violent Videogames cause violence in real life has come back with a WEAK POSITIVE correlation, many others have a WEAK NEGATIVE correlation that proves that there is no real link between violent videogames and violence in real life.

 

I would also go as far as to saying that when it comes to Obesidy, there are many Obeise people in the world who have never played videogames, so you can't really blame videogames for people getting fat if there are other causes involved.

 

Also I think that since Videogames have been attacked by major influencial parts of society, I have gone back into researching what I used to do in my Psychology classes many times to find out the real information.

So in a way, because I have a deep interest in Videogames, I have LEARNED to back up my research with conrete research from what I had learned from school, and in a way Videogames have taught me allot about how Psychology is not really the answer of everything, but it is more of a science of OBSERVING human behaviour and commenting on it. Nothing about drawing to conclusions because with many psychology studies, the conclusion is almost never black and white.

Yet if I were to learn my information from the news, it would say otherwise and people who are too lazy to try and back up with their own research and information will be lacking in their understanding of what Psychology is really all about.

 

TBoneTony

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

"This is a win for California's citizens," said Michael Gallagher, head of the Entertainment Software Association. "This is a clear signal that in California and across the country, the reckless pursuit of anti-video game legislation like this is an exercise in wasting taxpayer money, government time, and state resources. In the end, common sense prevailed with the court determining that, after exhaustive review, video games do not cause psychological or neurological harm to minors. And, that the ESRB rating system, educational campaigns and parental controls are the best tools for parents to help control what their children play."

3rd sentance being the most important one. The line that defeated the California game bill or at least pronounced it dead.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

So we may aswell Count on this sentence

In the end, common sense prevailed with the court determining that, after exhaustive review, video games do not cause psychological or neurological harm to minors.

 

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Every time I see Buttars I think Butters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butters_(South_Park)

Both are easily influenced and pushed around.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

you're not the only one

岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

Well, they say great minds think alike...

So maybe horribly broken, diseased fascist minds think alike as well...

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

FFS

GROW SOME BALLS GAMES INDUSTRY.

why is nobody there to prevent this.

I mean what i find most ironic is that its the SAME QUOTES (devin more.. harvard brain scans blah blah) that come up OVER AND OVER. You could go to that meeting and literally predict line by line what arguments were going to come up, and literally debunk them one by one.

Its ridiculous nobody does this, and instead allows more unnecessary burdens be hung on gamers everywhere.

So F****G tired of this. Im sick of defending an industry that wont defend itself. I mean seriously... if you had to predict which urban legends (lets face it, thats what they are) would be raised youd pick these

Whats more... what the HECK do those stories have to do with ANYTHING about truth in advertising, and a law that WONT DO ANYTHING TO STOP SELLERS SELLING GAMES TO UNDERAGE KIDS IF THEY WANT TO? (they wont advertise they age-restrict if all they care about is money anyway!) 

All theyve done is burdened those retailers who ARE 'protecting' kids. GEEEZ.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

I think Regulating internet sales counts as an automatic violation of the commerce clause

http://www.ilrweb.com/PFDocuments/ILRAlerts/2005.05.18.HTML

Go to internet Commerce and there's the proof(look for Granholm v. Heald)

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

... Did you even read the summary provided for that opinion in the very costly snippet you provided? In overview, "The state laws allowed in-state wineries to make direct sales to customers but effectively permitted out-of-state wineries to make sales only through wholesalers and retailers at greater expense." (overview quote provided by lexisnexis)This is discriminatory under the dormant commerce clause because it requires out of state distributors to use more expensive methods to make a sale than in state distributors. In this case, the exact OPPOSITE would occur-- the only retailers who suffer under this law are Utah's retailers. They are the only retailers who bear a direct expense, punishment, or burden in connection with the law.

 

You'd be better off using an argument based on federal consumer protection laws if you're going to bring interstate commerce into this, which requires that the misrepresentation in false advertising be continuous, etc.

 

 

 

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

I wish there was a party that wasn't passing such asinine laws.

Vote independant, the democrats are just as bad...just not about games.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

This kind of thing bothers me intensely.. The Political system is very broken in cases like these where those with the power lock themselves away from the public and proceed to brainwash one another with scare tactics and huge amounts of large information.

Utah is far from being a progressive state, but to pass such a meaningless and ass-backwards bill just because some blowhard with no credentials quoted another psychopath with no credentials is disappointing. Don't politicians have anything better to do with their time?

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

It wouldn't surprise me if it passed. Keep in mind, Utah is one of the precious few states that will still enforce its criminal libel laws. They have no compunctions about interfering with speech.

What's strange is that everyone's boo-hooing that this applies to games, but film and music are subject to age/maturity ratings as well. Where's the MPAA and the RIAA in this discussion? Or is this legislation intended purely to have a discriminatory effect and unequal application? Because that really is unconstitutional, even under a rational basis analysis.

 

 

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

I'm an avid consumer of music and have never come across a music product which was age-restricted or -recommended. I have seen music product labeled "parental advisory explicit content" but would argue that such labelling doesn't qualify as an age-restriction or -recommendation which would satisfy Utah's law.

And, as I recall, a theatre owners' organization was one of the first and few to appear before the Legislature in opposition to passage.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

@mona:

It's the fact that the rational basis test applies to commercial speech which has the folks in Utah thinking that their law will pass constitutional muster because damn near everything passes the rational basis test. But they may be begging their own question. Who says that a stated policy to refuse age-innapropriate sales without proper age verification is indeed commercial speech? Perhaps it is under Utah's crazy-assed, catch-all rule that "anything stated in connection with the solicitation of business is an advertisment," but I think the federal courts have taken a much stricter interpretation of what it takes to engage in "commercial speech," beginning with their pronouncement that commercial speech "merely proposes a commercial transaction." Arguably, the videogame retailers' policy does the exact opposite: it proposes not to have a commercial transaction unless the retailer can verify that the buyer is of appropriate age. And it does so for reasons which, arguably, have much more to do with social considerations and concerns than any business considerations and concerns (i.e., ensuring that the industry isn't irresponsibly providing age-inappropriate products). Accordingly, I'm not as convinced as the Utah Legislature apparently is that the videogame industry's policies which they've targeted are indeed commercial speech. If those policies are found not to be commercial speech by a federal court applying the stricter federal rule, then I suspect that the strict scrutiny test is the appropriate test and the Utah Legislature can call it a day because damn near nothing passes the strict scrutiny test.

@BearDogg-X:

And if, as a matter of law and fact, the videogame industry's policy is not commercial speech, then the Utah law is unconstitutionally overbroad as a statutory scheme which obviously confines itself to commercial speech (i.e., advertising) but has the effect of also encompassing non-commercial speech (i.e., the industry's policy). 

    

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

@JDKJ So, Techinicaly They're(as in Utah) screwed if it's found to be unconstutional

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

If it's true that Utah still enforces their libel laws, then the Eagle Forum's is in serious trouble.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

Actually it was ruled unconstitutional in 2002. Bearing in mind that it was actually prosecuted in 2001. Better late than never miright?

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

So did anyone else laugh so hard they nearly shit themselves when Thompson said he would never ask anyone to read his book?  I mean the guy can't go three seconds during his own trial without mentioning that shit on paper.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

I'll be shocked if this actully passes thru but i dont see it happening at all really and what pisses me off even more is the fact that these pricks will just pass along movies and books and music and give us the whole "well those things are different so its ok" line,Serioulsy what is it with these moron pathetic losers who have this idea that "hey Gamers are just little children so lets tell them what to do and how to think" Crap..Waste of time and a Waste of money But Oh Hell they dont care its all about saving and protecting little Timmy..After all we have to "save the children" 

 

 

so to quote george carlin.."F*** The Children"

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

I think I know how the law could be ruled unconstitutional.  The Interstate Commerce Clause says that  the government cannot interfere with commerce between states, such as online shopping. If it's declared constitutional on First Amendment grounds, which is unlikely, then the ESA, IEMA, and others can say it violates the Interstate Commerce Clause.

Join the YouTube Boycott! Avenge the suspension of PlayItBogart and the hacking of Armake21!

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

It would have to interfere with a federal law for the interstate commerce clause to become an issue-- local and state governments can typically regulate interstate commerce so long as it doesn't interfere with federal law (supremecy clause) and it doesn't discriminate against interstate commerce: i.e., preferential treatment to the state's economic interests (when the state isn't a market participant), or economic protectionism.

The law doesn't favor Utah's economic interests over any other state's, and it doesn't place a burden on interstate commerce-- it places a burden on Utah's retailers. If anything, the only economic burden is on Utah itself. Distributors aren't punished, only the retailer.

 

So I don't really see how application of the dormant commerce clause would help.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Do plaintiffs even bring commerce clause lawsuits anymore? I thought the filing of those lawsuits tapered off when the novelty of the federal interstate highway system wore off in the late-1960s.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Still a semi-frequently litigated issue. Just ran a lexis search and most of the cases in the past 5-10 years concern municipal and state regulation of food import or tax.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

They can also claim that it's unconstitutionally broad as somebody could claim that their 11-year-old was sold a PG-13 movie or a T game. The bill could even be applied to board games like Monopoly, Mouse Trap, etc.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Two problems with that theory, Dawg: (1) the language of the law doesn't say "M-rated" or in any other way limit itself to any particular age-restriction or -recommendation. It covers all age-restricted and -recommend goods and service. The obvious come-back to your example of the 11-year-old is: "And? So what's overbroad about that? That's precisely what the law was intended to cover" and (2) it would only apply to board games if the sellers of board games advertised that they will not inappropriately provide age-recommended board games. I can't think of one board game seller who so advertises. But even if they did so advertise, then you're once again looking at a  "And? So what's overbroad about that? That's precisely what the law was intended to cover" come-back.

A law is only unconstitutionally overbroad if in effect it would tend to encompass activities which its language doesn't say it should emcompass (i.e., the law prohibits "X" but you could just as easily fall victim to it for "Y" and "Z."). 

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

The problem with this bill is allowing it to go unchecked sets a dangerous precident. You never let lawyers and politicans get a foot in the door so to speak. Cause if this is left un opposed, JBT is gonna try and spread it all over the countr. And is does indeed run into some constitustional issues. First, it's attempting to put a force of law behind a voluntary rating system, violation of the 14th. Secondly, it's applying to only games and movies, not music, volation of the 4. While it may not have content retrictions, it does have a major issue in it's desgin that the industries can point to in court. Even one of the politicans at the debate pointed out that it would be an abuse of the truth in advertising law.

In the end, the industry should be doing three things.

 

1. Sueing anyone who tied devan moore to games. Last I heard, case was still on going, after what, 7 years. It's not like he made any headway on that is it. Trying to use it as some kinda proof is false.

2. Suing the eagle forum for slander, and i mean BIG time.

3. Threaten the governour directly, tell him that if he signs this bill, the industry will pull all development out of the state and instruct all retailers to pull all documents regarding esrb enforcement from there stores, and cease all voluntary ratings enforcement, and threaten to sue anyone who attempts bring it up in the press without mentioning the bill the state passed.

 

Thats just my suggestion. But hopefully we can all agree, the industry needs to do SOMETHING.

 

 

Yukimura is still here "Honor, that is what matters, isn't it? " Yukimura Sanada, from Samurai warriors 2

"My name is Lenerd Church, and you will fear my LASER FACE"

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

I say 3 isn't far enough.

I say they should threaten to yank ALL game business from Utah.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

About 2: I thought you couldn't sue a group, or, something like that? Sorry I'm so vague, I don't really recall the exact wording.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

You can sue a group. Vince McMahon and WWE filed a defamation of character lawsuit against the Parents Television Council in 2000 over the PTC's lies(claiming some companies like 7UP and Hershey had pulled advertising from WWE programming when those companies didn't; claimed that wrestling caused the deaths of some children, more specifically, the infamous Lionel Tate case in Ft. Lauderdale, where Tate's attorney claimed Tate had watched wrestling when he murdered a 6 year old girl half his size after Tate changed his story two times prior).

WWE won a $3.5 million settlement and a public apology by the PTC in 2002.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

If only they could sue the World Wildlife Fund and get the WWF initals back.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

Aw! Everyone's already calling bullshit!

But yeah, I'm calling bullshit. Sounds like an Eagle puppet.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

So...what now?  The fact that a state government actually believes the lies of a disgraced & disbarred Christian extremist literally makes me sick to my stomach.  How the hell can there be any hope of protecting speech and freedom if more shit like this happens? 

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Well, right now it's just Utah...hopefully the nuttiness won't spread, or someone will at least point out how worthless JT's book is in making serious decisions.

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Well, it´s too bad that Utah Senate decided to believe in Jack Thompson´s outrageous lies. Too bad because if they really to want something about videogames, maybe they could create something really useful for society.

But again, those lazy politicians will get another bill ruled as unconstitucional by the Supreme Court. There is gonna be many money wasted in this useless exercise.

I really hope this is the last one of this series of useless bills.

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Uhh... the Supreme Court has yet to say anything about game legislation - thus far it's all been the federal circuits (the second highest courts in the US - hence, if CA wants to appeal their law, the Supreme Court's the only place they can go.)

Also, there's a reasonable chance that this bill will pass constitutional muster - that's not the big problem with it.  The big problem is that it's feel-good legislation that will in reality do the opposite of what people would want.  Game retailers that try to keep M-rated games from minors expose themselves to liability while retailers that don't bother to card at all are completely safe.  Course, the bill's also been watered down such that it's not easy to pin the fine on a retailer in the first place.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Someone needs to make a Counter Strike mod map where the hostages are all Jack Thompson.....I'd be banned every round for whacking them hostages.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

If anyone was wondering why Magaret Dayton kept on repeating "goodwill" like it was some kind of mantra during last night's debate, here's my two cents:

Someone (not likely Thompson; he ain't nowhere near sharp enough) likely pointed out to her and her cohorts the difficulty in arguing that a statement which proposes that a commercial transaction will not in fact occurr (i.e., "we will not inapropriately sell an age-recommeded or -restricted product") is, as required by Utah's TIA, made in connection with the solicitation of business. And, indeed, it is difficult to argue that a seller is soliciting business with a statement promising to turn away business. So, she and her cohorts think that, if the push comes to shove, they can circumvent this obvious lack of a connection between the statement and the solicitation of business by arguing that the "we will not inapropriately sell an age-recommeded or -restricted product" statement is intended to foster goodwill for the advertiser, and goodwill is always connected to the solicitation of business. This argument, in my opinion, is only marginally less difficult to make than the argument that a statement which proposes that a commercial transaction will not in fact occurr is made in connection with the solicitation of business. And convincing a court that it is will take something more than Senator Dayton merely repeating "goodwill, goodwill, goodwill" ad nauseum.   

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

I wish we could expose Jack Thompson for the cold-hearted son of a bitch he really is.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Don't you need to have a heart to be cold hearted?

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

Heart? Fuck, he needs a soul, first.

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...


Why is it that people like Jack always seem to think it's okay to lie? Jack is fanatically devoted to his concept of religion, and Christian ethics has a strong aversion to telling falsehoods. Yet fanatics apparently think God just looks the other way when they're lying in the name of expanding their damnable agendas.

If you go crazy then I will still call you Superman.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

"Christian ethics has a strong aversion to telling falsehoods"

I have never heard a priest or any other religoius figures say that its okay to lie. Jack does not represent my belives.

 

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

'aversion' - fear or repulsion of

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

... Isn't that what they just said.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

 Look its in a book and by god it must be fact if they are willing to print it.

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to Pass

Yep noticed that myself.  Putting something in print in a public domain is somehow tetramount to having it carved in stone by a burning bush (or some-such).  The "I read it somewhere it must be true." mentality eludes (if amuses) me. 

Oh jackies book.  Curious.  Did he include gay porn in it?  Alude to burned out buildings?  Try to sue any (every) one in it?  

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

And when the Games Industry tries to stop the bill in court, they will use the book Grand Theft Childhood in their side.

Also they should use another book.

Media Violence 'Science and Ideology' that looks into the past history of people trying to blame violent media on violence in real life.

Both books are good resources to try and trump those who are trying to use Jack's book. Or even that other book 'Stop teaching our kids to kill' from...was it from a Psychologist Anderson?

 

TBoneTony

Re: Did Utah Senate Work From Jack Thompson's Playbook to ...

The other book/toilet paper was from that Forrest Gump lookalike Dave Grossman.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

 
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ZippyDSMleehttp://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/04/15/riaa_files_civil_suit_against_megaupload04/16/2014 - 8:48am
ZippyDSMleeEither way you get stagnation as people can not afford the prices they set.04/16/2014 - 8:47am
Neenekowell, specifically it helps people already living there and hurts people who want to live there instead. As for 'way more hurt', majorities generally need less legal protection. yes it hurt more people then it helped, it was written for a minority04/16/2014 - 8:30am
MaskedPixelantehttp://torrentfreak.com/square-enix-drm-boosts-profits-and-its-here-to-stay-140415/ Square proves how incredibly out of touch they are by saying that DRM is the way of the future, and is here to stay.04/16/2014 - 8:29am
james_fudgeUnwinnable Weekly Telethon playing Metal Gear http://www.twitch.tv/rainydayletsplay04/16/2014 - 8:06am
ConsterTo be fair, there's so little left of the middle class that those numbers are skewing.04/16/2014 - 7:42am
Matthew Wilsonyes it help a sub section of the poor, but hurt both the middle and upper class. in the end way more people were hurt than helped. also, it hurt most poor people as well.04/16/2014 - 12:13am
SeanBJust goes to show what I have said for years. Your ability to have sex does not qualify you for parenthood.04/15/2014 - 9:21pm
NeenekoSo "worked" vs "failed" really comes down to who you think is more important and deserving04/15/2014 - 7:04pm
NeenekoThough I am also not sure we can say NYC failed. Rent control helped the people it was intended for and is considered a failure by the people it was designed to protect them from.04/15/2014 - 7:04pm
NeenekoIf they change the rules, demand will plummet. Though yeah, rent control probably would not help much in the SF case. I doubt anything will.04/15/2014 - 1:35pm
TheSmokeyOnline gamer accused of murdering son to keep playing - http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2014/04/15/21604921.html04/15/2014 - 11:50am
Matthew Wilsonyup, but curent city rules do not allow for that.04/15/2014 - 11:00am
ZippyDSMleeIf SF dose not start building upwards then they will price people out of the aera.04/15/2014 - 10:59am
Matthew Wilsonthe issue rent control has it reduces supply, and in SF case they already has a supply problem. rent control ofen puts rent below cost, or below profit of selling it. rent control would not fix this issue.04/15/2014 - 10:56am
NeenekoRent control is useful in moderation, NYC took it way to far and tends to be held up as an example of them not working, but in most cases they are more subtle and positive.04/15/2014 - 10:24am
PHX CorpBeating Cancer with Video Games http://mashable.com/2014/04/14/steven-gonzalez-survivor-games/04/15/2014 - 9:21am
Matthew Wilsonwhat are you saying SF should do rent control, that has never worked every time it has been tried. the issue here is a self inflicted supply problem imposed by stupid laws.04/15/2014 - 8:52am
 

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