Sony's decision to voluntarily remove Killzone 2 ads from Toronto bus shelters last week prompted Cnet's Don Reisinger to ask an interesting question: How far should violent game ads be kept from schools?
The ads came down after an elementary school teacher complained that they might be frightening to children. In addition to pulling the ads, Sony said that it would work to establish an ad-free radius around schools for future campaigns. Reisinger writes that the PlayStation 3 manufacturer made the right call:
Moving ads away from schools is probably a smart decision on the part of Sony and every other video game developer that doesn't want to upset an entire community. School officials have a point when they complain about violent video game ads around kids who aren't even old enough to buy them...
But if Sony will start creating an advertising barrier around schools, how far away should it be? Some might say that one mile is far enough, since most kids will be on the bus by then. Others might say the advertisements can be placed within a few hundred yards from a school...
While I applaud Sony for taking the ads down... I wonder how it plans to implement its advertising-free zones, since a standard distance probably won't work around every school.... In trying to do good, I wonder if Sony has hindered its ability to effectively advertise.
Comments
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
The *real* question is: How far removed from reality do you want laws to be?
This EEK! QUICK LET'S HIDE THOSE ADS!-plan is just plain nonsense. You can hide ads depicting violent acts, but I've never even seen such an ad in my whole life. Just a guy with a gun? A guy with a gun who's got a speckle of blood on his cheek?
Seriously, the children are romping around the place, they're gonna go on adventures and see every nook and cranny of the places they live in. They *are* going to see those ads whether you want it or not.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
You're missing the point. It's not about whether or not kids should be allowed to see the ads, it's that the ads should not be forced upon them. It's the same reason that adult-directed ads aren't shown on kid's channel's. If a kid sees an ad for a strip club(or alcohol, cigarettes, etc. etc.) on the Disney channel, the company has done wrong, for it is being forced upon the child. If they see the same ad on Comedy Central, then you can't blame the company, because it is not a channel that is appropriate for a young age group, and the person watching has willingly chosen something that is not necessarily appropriate.
You walk on the sidewalk and get run over by a Hummer going 120mph, the driver gets arrested.
You walk on the freeway and get run over by a Hummer going 120mph, nobody blames the driver.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
For a legal take on the issue, head over here:
http://www.gameslaw.net/2009/03/17/sonyads/
www.gameslaw.net
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
First of all small kids can be scared over a lot of things so why single out games? Also its absurd to think that by removing such adds from near schools it somehow eliminates the possibility of ever seeing such an advertisement.
If a kid sees an add for a violent game and then wants to get it then its up to the parents to decide the appropriateness of the game.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
I don't see a problem advertising them near high schools or places where teenagers hang out but i can understand keeping them away from places where young children would be like pre-schools, day-care centers, elementary schools, ect.
"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
The next step will be retiring M rated games adds from TV. Thanks, Sony.
The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
No. You are wrong. This would be like Sony buying advertising space on TV, then later finding out that the network could only fit them in during children's programming. Finding that out, Sony pulls the advertisment from that station.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
Depends on the school first of all. There is no point advertising Killzone 2, God of War 3, or GTAIV near an elementary school. Doing so just lends credibility to the critics who are the ESRB is a facade and the industry is trying to promote violent games to kids.
However advertisement near a High School (which has 17 and 18 year old students) is fine.
As for "how far away." I think the idea is simple. Is the advertisement targeted at the population of that particular school? Then it's too much.
However, a billboard along a roadway that happens to have an elementary school on it is another matter.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
Actually, I can understand this one entirely. Hell, I was scared of all shooter games untill i was 9. Parents should have the right to decide when their kids are exposed to the world as long as its orthodox.
Posters like this don't really help sell as much as television comertials anyway.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
"Parents should have the right to decide when their kids are exposed to the world as long as its orthodox."
No, they most definitely should not. Parents have the right and responsibility to protect their children from harm, but there is no moral right or responsibility to keep children ignorant of the world around them. In fact, I consider it an immoral act to keep children from learning about the world.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
I agree in a sense but think that as long as a child is in their parents home, eating thier food, free clothes, free shelter, ect. they have to follow their rules.
I do believe there is a point and it's not some arbitrary age limit where a minor could emancipate themselves from their parents if shown to be mature enough to do so. Of course that depends on the individual minor in question.
"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
It's not as if children generally have a choice of where to live, so an argument based on "my house, my rules" is not very appealing to me. A homeowner has the right to demand respect toward himself and others within his household, but that doesn't translate into the right to impose arbitrary rules.
There are times when rules must be imposed upon children, but it's not because the child is living uner your roof. You impose rules because the person is making immature and potentially harmful choices, or because you're otherwise looking out for the child's best interests (his true best interests, rather than imagined ones).
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
No ads around schools. Fine. Now we only need to manage that the kids can teleport so they won't see any while walking home.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
/me waits for the inevitable U.S. v. Lopez argument.
-- Dan "SWATJester" Rosenthal; Executive Director, http://www.gameslaw.net
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
As long as Sony is voluntarily removing ads, then so be it. The instant the government acts to ban such ads...then I have a problem.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
I was about eleven years old when I watched a (G-rated) trailer for DAWN OF THE DEAD. It scared the heck out of me and gave me nightmares for days. On the other hand, at that same age there were enough school friends of mine who watched a lot of R-rated horror movies and they never had a problem.
So, either ignore those complaints (at least let the boy tell the world that he is scared and not his mom - over eager moms are a problem all by themselves) or don't advertise that way at all.
ZAR.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
I don't mind the idea of keeping ads away from places that are child-centric, like schools, however, care needs to be taken not to get too carried away, since things like Bus Shelters etc are not child-centric unless they are school-bus only shelters.
As was mentioned earlier, the real trick isn't protecting the children, it's knowing when to stop.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
Safest bet with the sue happy a-holes in the US is to have no ads for M rated games, but keeping them away from kids is definitely a good idea. I say try advertising on college campuses. At least almost everyone there should be at or over the age of 18.
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Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
Eventually, everyone will have cybernetic implants that will broadcast a wireless 802.11n signal that details their age to every advertising billboard/sign/bus within a 200-yard radius. That way, they'll only see what we WANT them to see. Brilliant!
"HEY! LISTEN!"
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
I don't think its so much about keeping the children ignorant about these games.
It is, at least in part, based around the idea that maybe we shouldn't have intentionally scary or disturbing images plastered all over billboards near places children are bound to be. Hell, when I was that age I was scared of such things.
"We never paid any heed to the ancient prophecies... Like fools we clung to the old hatreds, and fought as we had for generations"
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
I would say one mile (or 1.6 kilometers) would do it.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
Florida is having similar problems when it comes to registered sex offenders. A large number of them cannot find a place to live because there are so many restrictions on it.
Not that M rated games are anything like sex offenders.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
Ha! As if taking down the ads will prevent the kids from knowing about Killzone or Bioshock's existence.
They probably learn about these games well in advance from going to Joystiq or Kotaku or any other gaming site. It just takes one kid to find out about a game and then information on said game spreads through word of mouth.
It's amusing that people think they can actually keep the existence of certain games a secret from kids, especially with the internet.
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
It is not about keeping the games a secret from kids. The Advertiser has no control over people SEEKING out thier products. But the Advertisers have every control over where and when their product is advertised.
Just as products for adults are not allowed to be advertised during children's television programming, the same should be done for Print ads. Do you think it would be fine to publish ads for M rated games in the Hilights magazine since kids will find out about the game anyway? No and these games shouldn't be advertised near children's schools.
Personally, I think that it was the transit authority who messed up here. They are the ones in control over where the ads are placed. Sony just did their job for them.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
I don't think there should be any restrictions on when and where M-rated games can be advertised. Unlike the prohibition on content that is "harmful to minors", which legally may not be sold to minors, an M-rating carries no legal weight at all. To restrict M-rated games is no different than restricting ads for other constitutionally-protected content.
Frankly, I am sick and tired of the "think of the children" mentality so prevalent in America these days. Will somebody please think of the rest of the human population? It's not as if school zones are populated exclusively by children, and it's not as if there's that many areas populated exclusively by adults. How silly can these restrictions get before someone says "enough!"?
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
It is an ESRB advertising guideline. One of the contractural aggreements to use an ESRB rating in your advertising, you agree to not advertise it during children's programming or in any publication that the primary target audience is children.
If you are found in violations of that the ESRB fines you and you have to pay or you won't be allowed to have further games rated.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
I know the ESRB has policies against advertising M-rated games in certain venues, but so far it hasn't prevented the posting of ads near schools. If the video game industry wishes to agree to silly restrictions, that's entirely their problem, but so far it would seem those restrictions do not prohibit what Sony was doing.
Turning it into an ESRB restriction wouldn't make it any less silly.
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
They may not prohibit advertising on bus stops within certain distances from a school. But that is the difference between letter of the law (no restrictions on advertising within certain distances of a school) and the spirit of the law (don't advertise where the majority of viewers would be underage)
Meaning, just because it's legal, doesn't mean it is ethical.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: How Far Removed From Schools Should Violent Game Ads Be?
Aside from the ethics of breaking contracts -- which Sony is apparently not doing -- I really don't see how ethics enters into it. I'm not familiar with the ESRB's contracts, but contracts are usually written with an eye toward avoiding possible misinterpretation. If Sony can get away with posting ads near schools, it's probably because the ESRB's contract wasn't intended to prohibit that sort of thing. After all, it's not as if Sony is posting ads inside schools, nor can it honestly be said to be targetting children with its advertising based on what I have read.
Anyway... why do so many people act as if there's two different species of human: children and adults?