Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

March 30, 2009 -

On Friday at the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, journalist Heather Chaplin told the game industry that it's time to grow up.

Pixel Vixen 707 has an extensive recap of remarks made by Chaplin, co-author of the well-regarded 2005 book Smartbomb (with GameCulture editor Aaron Ruby). Chaplin made her comments while serving on a journalist's rant panel at GDC:

[Chaplin] reports at NPR among other venues. She says this puts her in the role of a “translator,” trying to tell the mainstream why gaming even matters. This also means explaining a lot of big-name games that feature zombies, and aliens, and girls in metal bikinis wielding axes. And while she’s heard the excuses - it’s “a very new medium” - she’s way past accepting them.

Like Wendy slapping around the lost boys, Chaplin patiently but firmly laid down the line. “It is you guys as game designers who are mired deeply in ‘guy culture,’” Chaplin said. The problem isn’t the medium: “You are a bunch of stunted adolescents.” Games avoid any of the things that separate men from boys: responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery. And “when you’re talking about culture-makers, this is a problem.”

MTV Multiplayer's Stephen Totilo has more:

She knows the big players and has hung out with top designers like Cliff Bleszinski and Will Wright. She singled Bleszinski out in her talk, saying she liked him, but that she was distressed by how juvenile most major games are. She dismissed top games as “power fantasies...”

She said game developers need to stop using the youth of the gaming medium as an excuse. At the same age of their medium, Chaplin said, movies had had Fritz Lang and were on the verge of Citizen Kane. Rock n roll had Bob Dylan and the Beatles...

Posted in

Comments

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

İstanbul'da araba kiralamak için Oto Kiralama sitesinden Araç Kiralama yapabilirsiniz. Bununla beraber Vip Araç Kiralama ve Rent A Car işlerinizi Kiralık Oto sitesinden yapabilirsiniz. Digitürk ve Digitürk Yayın Akışı için Digiturk sitesine girebilirsiniz. Parke modelleri için İstanbul Parke sitesine girebilirsiniz. Kiralık Araçlar için ve diğer Kiralık Araçlar için web sitelerimize girebilirsiniz.......

Thank you informationn..

Jeep Kiralama hizmetleri için kiralik jeep sitesine, Digitürk kampanyalari, Digitürk Plus, İstanbul digitürk bayileri için digiturk sitesine girebilirsiniz. Digitürk kampanyalari için ise digitürk kampanyalari
sayfasına, günlük yayın akışı için ise digitürk yayın akışı sitesine girerek yayın akışını güncel olarak takip edebilirsiniz.
Araba Kiralama, Oto Kiralama ve araç kiralama hizmetlerini yapmak için, şöförlü araç kiralama veya şöförlü minibüs kiralama sayfalarına gidebilirsiniz. Bütçenize göre araç kiralama yapmak istiyorsanız, ekonomik araç kiralama, spor araç kiralama, lüks araç kiralama, panelvan araç kiralama ve
vip araç kiralama sayfalarına giderek kiralık araçlarınızı görebilirsiniz.
İstanbul genelinde parke sitesi olan bahçelievler parke ve istanbul parke sitesine bakarak, parke modellerini görebilirsiniz.
sanalika oyununu oynamak için sanalika oyna sayfasına gidebilirsiniz. Birbirinden güzel hileler için sanalika hileleri sayfasına, en yeni Metin2 Hileleri için ise
Metin2 Hileleri sayfalarına gidebilirsiniz. Hepsinin haricinde digitürk sitesine giderek, digitürk paketleri kısmına giderek digitürk üyelik paketlerini görebilirsiniz.
Bu kadar basit.. Degil..

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Journalist Heather Chaplin told the game industry that it's time to grow up. I think she is right! ------- how to jump higher and Mp3 rocket download

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Gears of war isn't an immature game. It's just simple. Conkers on the otherhand would be immature.

 

And besides, the reason why her knowledge of mature titles is so limited is because they tend not to sell as well.

 

If she wants games of that nature, she can find them. Why she turns a blind eye to them is beyond me.

 

Like she said, there are games that are artistic and games that are simply fun. If she is trying to find games that are complex, why does she only play the stupid ones?

 

It's like saying you want a relationship and can't find a good guy but you only go to bars and clubs and get drunk hoping a prince charming will kiss you and wake you out of your delusional slumber.

 

She obviously hasn't been watching television for the past twenty years or watching movies or listening to music for that matter. Mixed in with all the crap are a few gems. Games are no different.

Maybe her harsh words are the only way anyone would listen to her. Because i wouldn't. She sounds like an idiot. But at least developers will listen and start making games with some more mature themes.

 

Eventually games will have a conscious element to them but to what degree is anyone's guess. Hopefully not to the point that it's ridiculous and every game has a silly message about life.

 

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Wait. Why are we comparing the video game industry to the movie industry?

Gaming IS about power, and since gaming is about escapism in the first place, it's obvious that gaming is generally about power fantasies. So what? Other games are about power as well, such as sports (cheerleaders would be roughly equivalent to the metal bikini chicks in video games in terms of their purposes: mainly to give males eye candy). It's about winning and dominating opponents. And a lot of parents, including soccer moms, are engaged in power fantasies by making or getting their children to play sports in the hopes that this child will grow up to be some star, get a scholarship, whatever. Or, in the case of academics, many parents engage in power fantasies through their children by wanting them to grow up to be powerful lawyers, politicians, whatever. Carry on the family name and all that rubbish. Everybody has power fantasies. Gaming just happens to be an easy and harmless way to live out fantasies of conquering people (total war), being some war hero, secret agent, whatever. You know, it allows people to live out fantasies that just aren't practical or realistic.  

I don't see gaming as a good medium for story telling (gameplay should always take priority over story telling if and when they conflict); I see it as a good medium to play escapist games on. Stories should be a secondary concern. I don't want video games turning into interactive movies. If I want to escape through some story, I'll watch a movie or read a book. If I want to ponder the deeper questions of life, I'll read philosophy. If I want to blow someone's head off or conquer people I'll play a game. Not everything I'm entertained by needs to be deep, nor does this mean I'm some stunted adolescent.


 

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

From Chaplin's point of view, the game developers are "culture makers." They manipulate human thought and thus are responsible for some of the actions of humans. If you made a movie at the height of the Cold War making it seem "cool" to start a nuclear war with the USSR, you'd be seen as somewhat irresponsible and perhaps insane. Fueling the fire, etc. Similarly, if you make a video game that says various US-led wars in the Middle East are cool, you may be seen as irresponsible, too. Thus the power fantasy fulfillment aspect of games can seem kinda screwed up. Another example... back in the 70s or so, I believe black crime rates in the US skyrocketed. Many whites, particularly conservative ones, became very frustrated and angry with this, demanding something be done about it. Some filmmakers supplied that demand with movies like Death Wish, where the white, middle-class vigilante hero runs around killing largely non-white and poor criminals. Thus, power fantasies were filled. The fantasy involved the murder of black criminals. How ethical is this? Is it totally fine? Is the filmmaker totally free of any blame should a viewer of these films develop racist views after seeing the film? Obviously the filmmaker did not force the viewer to develop racist views, but it would be hard to argue there was no influence going on there.

For me, I don't really see games as culture makers, but as culture responders. People have beliefs generated from their real lives, and they demand entertainment media that confirms their beliefs to be true. The highly popular "Left Behind" novels cater to Christian beliefs, for example. People want the same from their games. My view is that games, right now in 2009, primarily supply to people's demands.. and don't really alter what is being demanded. In other words, if video games vanished from the world entirely tomorrow, people would be pretty unaffected.

Of course there's no huge red line that prevents video games from "making culture." They send out messages just like any person can. But I think they are doing much more responding than "culture making" at this point. They don't have a significant "voice of authority" to put it one way. Video games are not religious figures, espousing life-altering philosophical viewpoints with any gravitas, claiming that they are speaking for God, etc. Nor are they highly respected Secretaries of State, going in front of the public and saying there are WMDs in Iraq, or what not. Video games don't pretend to be important.

This is why I'm not sure I want video games to "grow up" or become important. Is it really a good idea to have video games join in on the culture wars? Even though I vote Democrat and am definitely more liberal than conservative, I'm not comfortable with how many liberal view points are espoused in films. To me, the medium of games and film are just not great places for political discussion. Everything becomes too one-sided. Chaplin never said she wanted more politics or culture war stuff in games, but I think a lot of what she's asking for will inevitably lead to this stuff...

 

 

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

 Actually I think the "guy culture" in gaming has gotten worse in modern times, at least in the USA. Back in the day most male gamers wouldn't be embarassed to be playing the likes of Mario, or Final Fantasy with its cute little characters and various other colorful, cartoony RPGs like it, puzzle games, etc.

Now that the beer-chugging, backwards-baseball-cap-wearing, overcompensating obnoxious "frat boy" demographic has long since discovered gaming anything colorful or imaginative is labeled "gay" and every other game is constantly compared to the likes of Halo, and constantly tries to emulate the same.

 

Just sayin'. 

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Agreed. "Gamer guy culture" has become much more... militarized too.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Yeah well we gamers from the 8-bit era remember what its really about. :p

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

she forgot to turn her bitch switch off before getting on stage

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

She says this puts her in the role of a “translator,” trying to tell the mainstream why gaming even matters.

 

games were better when they didnt matter.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Thank you D

Anyways...

Top games are immature because they are meant to appeal to a wide variety of players. Games that want to make money need to focus on being fun, because everybody likes fun. Take Halo for example. Weither you spend your time playing in a league or greifing your team, the number one thing you will remember is how much fun you've had. If you want to make a game centered around the plot, you're going to appeal to a smaller portion of consumers. (ie mature hardcore gamers) this is because stoners and soccer moms really don't care about how well written a characters diolauge is, they care about how much fun it is when you use said characters chaingun to destroy an army of approaching aliens.

The reason mature games arn't mainstream is because they appeal to less people, and therefore get less attention. If we lived in a world where a good plotline drew more eyes than solid gameplay, you would hear the jocks in your gym class talking about Silent Hill instead of Gears of War.

tl;dr version

She sould be blaming the illiterate masses instead of game developers.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

A few points...

1.

It's not up to women to tell guys how to be men; and vica versa of course.

2.

Games are supposed to be juvenile! That's the whole point!

3. 

“It is you guys as game designers who are mired deeply in ‘guy culture,’”

Of course male game designers are going to be producing games relating to this so called 'guy culture', it's why we get in to game development! 

 

-- Olly

-- Olly

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Meh. Make whatever you want and the free market will sort it out

www.gameslaw.net

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

 

OK, that girl reporter has never went to Japan, has she?  Could you tell her there are girls who play video game also.  Could she like maybe look at some Yaoi and Shonen-Ai theme game.  because there are video game for girls out there like Barbie, Hannah Montana, and other girly-type games.  Where did she came up with this idea from?

"This also means explaining a lot of big-name games that feature zombies, and aliens, and girls in metal bikinis wielding axes. And while she’s heard the excuses - it’s “a very new medium” - she’s way past accepting them."

Not all of them are like that, ever hear of Super Mario Bros, Viva Pinata, or Littlebigplanet.  What's wrong with girls in metal bikinis wielding weapons, it's sexy.

“It is you guys as game designers who are mired deeply in ‘guy culture,’” Chaplin said. The problem isn’t the medium: “You are a bunch of stunted adolescents.” Games avoid any of the things that separate men from boys: responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery. And “when you’re talking about culture-makers, this is a problem.”

I guess she hasn't read any Yaoi or Shonen-Ai manga or anime before right.  I bet she hasn't read any shojo Manga.  I bet she hasn't seen this game

 but that she was distressed by how juvenile most major games are. She dismissed top games as “power fantasies...”

So how is Littlebigplanet, Super Mario Bros, Final Fantasy, and most of RPGs from Japanese are "power fantasies".  you're not showing power, you're doing it for purpose.  How is Playstation Home and Xi in Home are power fantasies also, you're solving a mystery.

 


 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I agree, this journalist needs to have a look at a few of the Japanese Videogames that don't always portray to the Aliens, Zombies and Girls in metal Bikinis welding an Axe.

She needs to do her research allot more and look beyond the Aliens, Zombies and Girls in Bikinis of many major Videogame companies and have a good hard look at games from the Japanese like...oh...NINTENDO!!!!

 

 

TBoneTony

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

http://gamearchitect.net/2009/03/29/gdc-2009-the-year-we-went-hungry/

Throwing this link up because it has some more info about the things said at the critics' rant.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

What a bi***.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Made me laugh, finding this little nugget in the middle of all this oh-so-serious discussion!

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

 What an insightful comment. You have done a service to us all with your biting wit.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Her rant is shortsighted, antagonistic, and full of cliches, but there is a little shred of truth to it. The industry is made up of businesses, and businesses stay afloat and grow with a measured amount of innovation on top of a whole lot of what has been proven to work already.

That is why we see so many sequels, ports, and copycat games. The target audience is young and male for most titles. That said, other markets are being served like never before. All while we can point to many games that do have more artistic merit (and have been mentioned above, like MGS, ICO, Beyond Good & Evil, and Silent Hill series).

The part where she claims she feels like a translator is quite valid. Even though gaming is more and more a mainstream pursuit, those who understand and care enough to be involved in gaming culture are still a minority. I've spoken to some people at journalism-related events and a few didn't even know that gaming journalism existed.

Most gaming journalism in mainstream (non-gaming focused) press is filtered and even somewhat dumbed-down. You can't use jargon without explaining it or delve too much into niche games without alienating your audience. So it has to be made appropriate for that mainstream audience, and what do mainstream audiences buy? These titles keep companies afloat.

You're going to have a much better chance at getting something greenlit about Halo for Ye Hometown Newspaper than Fatal Frame.

Ms. Chaplin's inflammatory delivery was an extremely poor choice and is mostly going to lead to people not taking several valid points within her argument seriously and glossing it over as some sort of "feminist rant" when that's not fair at all. A man making the same points wouldn't be seen this way.

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

To me the fact that "Feminist Agenda" was raised in the first point, indicates that video games are pretty immature and male.

Yeah sure there are a couple of great games out there. But come I mean come on MOST games are male power fantasies. Or if not most at least the really popular ones... Halo, GOW etc.

And of course there are lots of similar male power films out there, but thats not the point. She simply said by this stage of the film mediums life it had basically created some genuine masterpieces. Now when you compare that to games (in terms of plot, themes, setting etc.) their not even close really lets be honest. Their are some materpieces out therein terms of tech design, artistic image etc. but lets face it as a general rule of thumb exploring deep issues, characters and themes (or whatever you wanna call that stuff) are not Video games forte.

 

Of course they could be..... very easily and interestingly IMO, but thats kinda her point. Why the fuck don't games just grow up a little. It would be pretty sweet if they did.

 

 

P.S. Im exceptionally tired so that post may have made no sense and I can't be assed proof reading it.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

"To me the fact that "Feminist Agenda" was raised in the first point, indicates that video games are pretty immature and male.""

Treading lightly...

I will agree that this is often a kneejerk reaction by people (yes, usually guys) who can't be bothered to see beyond the surface of the argument in question.  But again...I was there.  I heard her whole rant, heard her tone, her delivery, the whole thing.  This was truly misandry at its finest.  So to be quite honest, as misused as the argument often is, I don't think "Feminist Agenda", as the term was being used here, is inaccurate.

"Yeah sure there are a couple of great games out there. But come I mean come on MOST games are male power fantasies. Or if not most at least the really popular ones... Halo, GOW etc."

I would argue that there are more than "a couple".  I would also point out that "the really popular ones" are really popular because they appeal to the lowest common denominator.  They're just like books, movies, and television - low brow sells, because the masses aren't really looking for high intellect.  They're looking to blow the crap out of zombies and aliens.

"And of course there are lots of similar male power films out there, but thats not the point. She simply said by this stage of the film mediums life it had basically created some genuine masterpieces."

And as beemoh said, the examples she cited were not immediately recognized as "masterpieces" or "classics".  That came with the benefit of hindsight; I'm sure that in twenty years we'll be looking back on some of the games today in the same way.  Remember Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.  Just because games aren't yet old enough to look back and establish the "classics" in the way that movies and literature can now, it doesn't mean we haven't produced anything that will stand the test of time.

"Now when you compare that to games (in terms of plot, themes, setting etc.) their not even close really lets be honest."

I would quite honestly challenge that there are no games comparable to great movies in terms of plot, themes, setting, etc., or characters.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

The man would be thought of as out-of-touch, and all of the same points would be made other than the feminist point. She makes her post completely sexist and implies that mindless killing is the only thing that gamers that buy those games are interested in. I like all types of games, and sometimes I just like to relax to blowing shit up!

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

No, the man wouldn't be seen as out of touch. He'd likely be seen as progressive for challenging the industry a little bit.

And what is this mysterious "feminist point". People are too quickly to toss around the word "feminist" without being clear exactly what they are interpreting it as, because it's often misinterpreted.

Feminism refers to wanting equality in rights, treatment, and opportunities. It's not a value judgment or some kind of superiority complex.

This particular person did use derogatory terms and took shots at men unfairly. That's not feminism; that's misandry.

That said, I did say her rant was incredibly shortsighted (and ignorant). Most gamers do play a mix of genres, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to blow things up or take a few zombies down.

To bring it back to my point, however, is that studios keep making sequels and similar games because they sold. Innovation is a risk, and a lot of businesses are risk-adverse. Especially in gaming where a lot of money needs to be invested up front with little guarantee of return for risky new IP.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Obviously it wouldn't be the same if he challenged the game industry because he'd be talking about his own gender, and in our society, attacking a group that you're part of is generally seen as ok. 

If, however, a man challenged the film industry over the prevalence of horrible chick flicks, soap operas, or woman-oriented reality TV, then yeah, he'd be seen as both out of touch and sexist.  In my opinion, woman-oriented programming usually is inane and aimed at vapid young or middle aged women.  And there's a lot of it.  Does this mean the tv/film industry needs to grow up?  Maybe, maybe not, but either way, I'm allowed to say it because I'm female.  A man saying the exact same things would be attacked as sexist, insensitive, and unwilling to acknowldge that such shows actually do have value (spoiler: they don't) if watched by someone who understands and feels and does other things that women apparently do all the time (spoiler: we don't).

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Thank you.  Well said.

The sad fact is that any legitimate point she might have been making in there was swept up in the sensationalist, misandric delivery.  A mistake that both genders make, to be sure (and in pretty much every sphere of interest, not just video games, of course).

It's really frustrating to be on the same "side" as someone and watch him/her sink the boat while you're in it with some idiotic delivery of a potentially valid idea.  That said, I think her idea, as well as her delivery, was misguided at best and downright idiotic and hypocritical at worst.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I don't know what the hell she's talking about, there aren't ENOUGH zombie games out there! And don't give me the bullcrap about RE5 or Silent Hill, there has never been a very good zombie game, they've all been "fight zombies for a little bit, then fight rediculously unrealistic bosses that take hundreds of shots to kill even if they're just a simple human" (like in Dead Rising) "or some rediculous beast" (ala the old resident evils). I want a real heart-pounding zombie game, with a control and design similar to Condemed 1, but with zombies and even more options. And more scary/realistic.

 

Anyways, she seems like a feministic retard (as in, gets pissed off at the idea of a "guy" thing like guns/awesomeness). Yes, there are really fun games that have lots of guns/mayhem, but there are also many many thought-provoking and stimulating games out there. And there are plenty of "girly" games out there too. Watch any DS commercials on tv lately and most revolve around young girls or teenage girls, very few advertise to boys anymore.

And on another note, like many others have said, there are plenty of games that combine logic and reasoning and decision-making WITH mindless killing and badassery. Fallout 3, Bioshock...most other great games that've come out recently...

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I haven't played it myself, but isn't Left 4 Dead sort of what you're talking about?  Nothing but a flat-out legion of zombies that threatens to engulf you if you stop pulling the trigger for more than a couple seconds?

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I know I'm going to be called a misogynistic jerk for saying this, but this is based on my own observations in life. Granted I'm only 30 years old, but between college and adulthood I've spent a good deal of time around women in both

Women don't understand men, plain and simple. Women and men are different, and a woman trying to place her values on men doesn't understand this.

Rather than go on some long rant, I'll just reference something I've notice time and time and time and time again since I was 13 years old. A woman who drones on and on about the male problem with “responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery” is most likely the first woman in a social situation to start seriously fawning over “Dude Bros” while purging herself of the standards she holds the rest of the male population to.

Not familiar with the concept of a Dude Bro? Three seconds worth of Google-Fu found the best example I can give.

http://www.boardofcadillac.com/douchebags.jpg


A second point I have is about the genre of 1970's exploitation film. Now regarded as one of the most pure and socially significant eras in the history of film, late 60's - late 70's exploitation films are characterized by their lack of responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery.

I'll take Petey Wheatstraw over some horrible art house film any day.

I really hope 30 is the new 20, that way I'm not screwed.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Being around women doesn't equal understanding them. Maybe you should be more open minded or hang out with different people.

It's patronizing to suggest that you understand women (and can speak to exactly what we do and do not understand, what our values are, and what we like and don't like) but that we don't understand you.

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I don't see where he claimed to "understand women"...

He did claim to identify a pattern of behavior common to a particular female personality type, based on observation...which I think would be a reliable result of spending a lot of time around women (in the situation he's describing, at any rate).

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

This also means explaining a lot of big-name games that feature zombies, and aliens, and girls in metal bikinis wielding axes.

Here your next cash cow, EA...

You better get right on it!

______________________________ Because I have NO Life... :P I introduce the following. PSN User ID: FirebirdXR (Yes, I use that moniker often) Xbox Live ID: FirebirdLR (Don't bother, It's a Silver Membership) *Limited Time Only* I put both because I

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

 >Chaplin said, movies had had Fritz Lang and were on the verge of Citizen Kane. Rock n roll had Bob Dylan and the Beatles..

All things that are only really so great with the benefit of hindsight.

Now, don't confuse this with nostalgia. These have become 'classics' because we've been able to look back at them and see what it is that makes them so good, not because we've randomly picked something from our childhood and told ourselves it was amazing.

At the time, Lang, Kane, Dylan and The Beatles were 'just' popular, mainstream entertainment. We will only know if Gears, Fallout, Final Fantasy etc can sit alongside them in forty years' time.

/b

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

If she expects the game industry to grow up, then the critics of the industry need to grow up as well.

It's hard for a genre to tackle more mature themes when they get slammed by yellow journalists for doing so.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Well, if she hasn´t seen anything else from Tomb Raider and Doom, then the videogame industry is very inmature.

Actually, I don´t think she knew games as Silent Hill, or Mass Effect (I´m supossing she doesn´t consider horror or sex as inmature).

Her critic is not very fair if she doesn´t know more games others that the ones appearing on media scandals as Grand Theft Auto.

Maturity is very overrated, anyways.

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Frankly, I think she's full of crap just like the rest of the media. Okay, so she hung out with Cliffy B. I guess she can base her opinions on the entire gaming industry with that experience. It's not like journalists have to be responsible anymore.

I just want to know, where the hell are the metal bra'd bimbos in Professor Layten? Where's the juvenile storyline in Mass Effect? For every Fritz Lang in Hollywood, there are a thousand Roger Cormans and Ed Woods. How can she hold up Hollywood as an example when there's movies like "Gator Bait" and "Glen or Glenda". She's cherry-picking Hollywood's best and the videogame industry's worst.

Journalists telling the videogame industry to shape up is hypocritical at best.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Actually I am looking forward to playing even more violent games.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

 Hey sweet! Are you the Sigvatr from TransHuman Design?

It fits in with your comment.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Every medium is this way; the household name titles are adrenaline-pumping and escapist.

And thought-provoking games do exist.  Of course, you would have to give the medium more than a cursory glance to see this, which most can't be bothered to do.

And what's necessarily wrong with a little escapist fun?  Being serious all the time is unhealthy.

No, Luke, I AM the Walrus

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

A lot of games are aimed at immature males, but... so are a lot of movies, and her description of "zombies, and aliens, and girls in metal bikinis wielding axes" (not to mention that bit about avoiding "any of the things that separate men from boys: responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery") makes me immediately think of the very well-stocked sci-fi/fantasy section of any book store or library.  The most popular and wealthy authors today (J.K. Rowling, Douglas Adams, Terry Pratchett, whoever wrote Twilight, etc.) usually work within this genre, so is it any surprise that many games -- which provide a similar sort of escape to a very similar demographic -- would touch on many of the same themes and provide an equivalent lack of depth?

I would like to see different genres, more complex stories, character development, and all that jazz, but I would never want the silly sci-fi/fantasy games to disappear or even become less prevalent.  They serve a purpose, just like their literary counterparts -- sometimes it's nice to just to give my brain a rest, disappear into a fantasy world for a time, and come out feeling all warm and fuzzy and ready to give the real world another shot.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

So we are supposed to play games where we "get in touch with our sensitive sides"?

*Hold X to cry on your buddy's shoulder and push up on the control pad to lean into a hug that is uncomfortably too long*

Um, no.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Isn't that Army of 2?

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Man, this is almost as bad as what Cooper Lawrence was saying...almost (don't break out the flamethrowers yet, guys, please).  She may not have had a "feminist agenda," but she certainly seemed biased.  I personally took some degree of offense at it, as I myself could be considered a "stunted adolescent."  Chalk that up to what you wil - I personally think it's due to an unfilfilled childhood and adolescence myself, but I digress.  I like to think, though, that I'm more intelligent and mature that other so-called "stunted adolescents."  Still, I don't see anything wrong with that, and I resent what I saw as someone trying to put me on a guilt trip.

Yes, I like games and movies that feature wanton violence and destruction, but I also appreciate a good nuanced and thought-provoking story as well.  If it happens to have both, well that's just gravy. (For examples, though they've been mentioned before: Fallout 3, BioShock, Mass Effect, KOTOR, Jade Empire, FF VII etc. etc.). 

I also think holding up Cliff Blezinski as an example was a bit of an unfair target.  How about Warren Spector?  Or Sid Meier?  Or Peter Molyneaux?  Or Ken Levine?  I could go on...

Also while it may seem apt to compare the gaming industry to the movie industry, it's been increasingly like comparing apples to oranges lately.  Both have different approaches to telling a story that will only become more apparent as technology advances.

Like Papa Midnight, I'm going to forget I read this and go back to playing my "power fantasises" as she put it.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Yeah, even if Cliffy B makes immature games, so what? At least they're fun. I mean, they may not be as artistic and mature as Heather Chaplins games, but... Oh that's right, Heather Chaplin hasn't made any games. All she's done is complain.

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I think this movie fits perfectly to the subject

http://g4tv.com/thepile/videos/37439/go_soapbox_GDC09_2_G4750swf.html

Anyway, there are many mature, artful games such as Ico, SotC, Okami, Flowers (PSN), Heavy Rain, etc.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

As long as the primary demographic target of video games are teenage boys and young adult males, what the hell does she expect? She could make the same argument about movies. Almost all the blockbusters are completely juvenile.

I don't think there is anything juvenile about Flower, Madden 2009, NHL 09, Race Pro...could go on for quite a bit here.

-- http://pixelantes.blogspot.com/

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Immature society prefers immature subject matter and presentation? This is a shocking and exciting insight! I'm pretty sure the guy blasting 50-Cent's new album in his new pimped-out Miata on the way to see The Transporter 7 isn't too interested in playing the gaming equivalent of a Beethoven symphony.

CounterfeitCulture.com: Gaming news and commentary for the socially-adjusted nerd.

CounterfeitCulture.com: Gaming news and commentary for the socially-adjusted nerd.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

 
Forgot your password?
Username :
Password :

Shout box

You're not permitted to post shouts.
Sora-ChanI realize that they have ways getting around it, but one reason might be due to earthquakes.04/17/2014 - 4:42am
Matthew WilsonSF is a tech/ economic/ trade center it should be mostly tail building. this whole problem is because of the lack of tail buildings. How would having tail apartment buildings destroy SF? having tail buildings has not runed other cities around the US/world04/16/2014 - 10:51pm
Matthew WilsonAgain the issue is you can not build upwards anywhere in SF at the moment, and no you would not. You would bring prices to where they should have been before the market distortion. those prices are not economic or socially healthy.04/16/2014 - 10:46pm
ZippyDSMleeYou still wind up pushing people out of the non high rise aeras but tis least damage you can do all things considered.04/16/2014 - 10:26pm
ZippyDSMleeANd by mindlessly building upward you make it like every place else hurting property prices,ect,ect. You'll have to slowly segment the region into aeras where you will never build upward then alow some aeras to build upward.04/16/2014 - 10:25pm
Matthew WilsonSF have to build upwards they have natural growth limits. they can not grow outwards. ps growing outwards is terable just look at Orlando or Austin for that.04/16/2014 - 4:15pm
ZippyDSMleeIf they built upward then it would becoem like every other place making it worthless, if they don't build upward they will price people out making it worthless, what they need to do is a mix of things not just one exstreme or another.04/16/2014 - 4:00pm
Matthew Wilsonyou know the problem in SF was not the free market going wrong right? it was government distortion. by not allowing tall buildings to be build they limited supply. that is not free market.04/16/2014 - 3:48pm
ZippyDSMleeOh gaaa the free market is a lie as its currently leading them to no one living there becuse they can not afford it makign it worthless.04/16/2014 - 3:24pm
Matthew WilsonIf you have not read http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/introducing-steam-gauge-ars-reveals-steams-most-popular-games/ you should. It is a bit stats heavy, but worth the read.04/16/2014 - 2:04pm
Matthew Wilsonthe issue is when is doesn't work it can screw over millions in new york city's case. more often than not it is better to let the free market run its course without market distortion.04/16/2014 - 9:36am
NeenekoTrue, and overdone stagnation is a problem. It is a tricky balance. It does not help that when it does work, no one notices. Most people here have benifited from rent controls and not even realized it.04/16/2014 - 9:23am
ZippyDSMleehttp://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/04/15/riaa_files_civil_suit_against_megaupload04/16/2014 - 8:48am
ZippyDSMleeEither way you get stagnation as people can not afford the prices they set.04/16/2014 - 8:47am
Neenekowell, specifically it helps people already living there and hurts people who want to live there instead. As for 'way more hurt', majorities generally need less legal protection. yes it hurt more people then it helped, it was written for a minority04/16/2014 - 8:30am
MaskedPixelantehttp://torrentfreak.com/square-enix-drm-boosts-profits-and-its-here-to-stay-140415/ Square proves how incredibly out of touch they are by saying that DRM is the way of the future, and is here to stay.04/16/2014 - 8:29am
james_fudgeUnwinnable Weekly Telethon playing Metal Gear http://www.twitch.tv/rainydayletsplay04/16/2014 - 8:06am
ConsterTo be fair, there's so little left of the middle class that those numbers are skewing.04/16/2014 - 7:42am
Matthew Wilsonyes it help a sub section of the poor, but hurt both the middle and upper class. in the end way more people were hurt than helped. also, it hurt most poor people as well.04/16/2014 - 12:13am
SeanBJust goes to show what I have said for years. Your ability to have sex does not qualify you for parenthood.04/15/2014 - 9:21pm
 

Be Heard - Contact Your Politician