Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

March 30, 2009 -

On Friday at the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, journalist Heather Chaplin told the game industry that it's time to grow up.

Pixel Vixen 707 has an extensive recap of remarks made by Chaplin, co-author of the well-regarded 2005 book Smartbomb (with GameCulture editor Aaron Ruby). Chaplin made her comments while serving on a journalist's rant panel at GDC:

[Chaplin] reports at NPR among other venues. She says this puts her in the role of a “translator,” trying to tell the mainstream why gaming even matters. This also means explaining a lot of big-name games that feature zombies, and aliens, and girls in metal bikinis wielding axes. And while she’s heard the excuses - it’s “a very new medium” - she’s way past accepting them.

Like Wendy slapping around the lost boys, Chaplin patiently but firmly laid down the line. “It is you guys as game designers who are mired deeply in ‘guy culture,’” Chaplin said. The problem isn’t the medium: “You are a bunch of stunted adolescents.” Games avoid any of the things that separate men from boys: responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery. And “when you’re talking about culture-makers, this is a problem.”

MTV Multiplayer's Stephen Totilo has more:

She knows the big players and has hung out with top designers like Cliff Bleszinski and Will Wright. She singled Bleszinski out in her talk, saying she liked him, but that she was distressed by how juvenile most major games are. She dismissed top games as “power fantasies...”

She said game developers need to stop using the youth of the gaming medium as an excuse. At the same age of their medium, Chaplin said, movies had had Fritz Lang and were on the verge of Citizen Kane. Rock n roll had Bob Dylan and the Beatles...

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Comments

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I'm just working off the whole "metal bikini" thing. If I remember correctly, Sialeeds and Isabel from Suikoden 5 wears a pretty skimpy outfit that fits into the "metal bikini" category. It doesn't serve its purpose as armor during fights. Lulu from FFX, the girls from FFX-2, and Ashe and Fran from FFXII would also falls in the same category. As much as I love JRPGs, the Japanese gaming culture will always draw criticism from Western commentators.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I'm sorry, but after rereading the article, i fail to see how the fact that the games i mentioned deal with individuals somehow twists her words

she says game don't deal with things like responsibility, One of the main ending points of SH2 and Homecoming was James and alex taking responsibility for what they've done.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I was not refering to you specifically, but then again, she never actually said that games only delt with "kill 'em all".

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Well said but I alway will say its due to the level of qaulity in games that roll off the product line.

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


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Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

How do you mean?

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

EDIT

“Well said but I will add it’s due to the level of quality in games that roll off the product line.”

=======================

Bugs, gaps in design, general unrefinement in development styles(but shine), the lack of polish and coherent standards in feature and control options….

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

It's a shame she's more concerned about not enough games having men in touch with their sensitive, feminine sides instead of rushed release dates and lack of quality control.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Thats not exactly what she said.  Also, why is it "feminine" side?  Why can't sensitivity be a masculin trait as well as a feminin one?  I mean, the men in games are almost always tough guys, stand offish enigmas, party boys, etc.  They are cliches.  Of course, so are the women and the animals and the villians... that is the problem.  Games are made of cliches with little thought into the character design beyond the visual.  And the visial does rock. 

I think one problem is that talented writers turn their noses up at games, so it is hard to get people like that to write for them. 

Edit: spelling is not my friend.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

What about Beyond Good & Evil hmmm?

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Yeah, Beyond Good and Evil is a great example of a game that breaks out of traditional limitations.  That having been said, being able to list examples that do not fit her rule only go on to show that the rule exists. 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Listing examples that break her rules (and god knows everyone is listing different games now) simply highlights the ignorance this so-called 'journalist' has of the field she is meant to cover for the mainstream.

Instead of picking up on these games as examples of how great the industry can be when it moves away from the 'shooter by numbers' and encourage her 'mainstream' audience she claims to 'translate' for (how pretentious is that statement to all of you, it's VERY pretentious to me) to check these games out (which in turn would increase their sales and make studios consider trying more games like that instead of stamping 'hero if the hour' onto another third or first pserson shooter, with obligatory vehicle section), she instead chooses to go on a rant about how it's all made by 'boys' for 'boys', backed up by this MTV jackass who chooses to compare it to the movie industry, but conveniently over-looking the by 'boys' for 'boys' summer blockbusters the movie industry makes.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I see more issues with writing than sheer ZOMG FEMIISIM!!!11 ..............

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Then you're missing a lot of what she said, but in fairness, you only get a snippet of it from this article.  There was a major tone of misandry in her rant, constant potshots at male developers under the guise of "immature" gaming.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Just curious, how many game developers do you know?

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Depends on your definition of "know".  Do my co-workers count?  Or just people I go out with after hours or on weekends?

I'm an active member of the IGDA, I've worked in one capacity or another (usually designer) for four development studios in the U.S., and I studied game design in school.  I'd think that compared to the average person, I know a lot of game developers.  It's kind of a subjective question (unless you want an exact number, in which case I probably couldn't give you one).

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Well her own style of condensation aside....shes right despite herself....

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

WHAT IS PORTAL IF NOT A GROWN-UP GAME, EQUIVALENT IN EVERY WAY TO CITIZEN KANE?

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I was present for this panel, and I have to admit, her rant got my blood boiling a bit.  When all is said and done, there was little difference between what she said, and what we'd expect from some sensationalist media outlet (hi, Fox!) that likes to pick choice bits from the whole, and ignore the greater context.

Someone said "feminist agenda" further up, and I think that that factor is present, but definitely not the entirety of her objections.  The thing is, that was probably the only legitimate angle she may have had.  Games, as an art form, have made a hell of a lot of progress in a comparatively short time, and did so while under the "fanboy stigma".  I think it's a sign of maturity, integrity, and ambition that thoughtful, adventurous, and truly serious subject matter has managed to make its way into games at all when the lucrative path is clearly "guns and chicks in chainmail weilding axes".  That's the easy path; fortunately, there are developers out there who have gone beyond the easy buck to make truly great games.

Mass Effect?  Bioshock?  Fallout 3?  Or would you like to go back further, Miss Chaplin, and examine some of the achievements of the gaming industry when it was even younger?  Ever play Beyond Good & Evil?  You might like that one, it had a strong, intelligent, caring, brave female lead (playable, mind you), who looks pretty Asian to me (certainly not Generic Caucasion Protagonist #28359, which was a complaint of another panelist).  Indigo Prophecy?

Hell, she wants to compare us to the movie industry?  Has she seen what they've done with ANY of our stuff?  Has there BEEN a cinematic adaptation of a game that hasn't fallen woefuly short of its source material?  (Someone is going to jump in here with Silent Hill, and I would respectfully say that while that's the best candidate for this debate, it's a sorely divided subject).

I've worked at a number of different studios, and I will say this about girls in the industry.  If a woman can do this job (art, programming, design, sound, any of the tracks, really), she is WELCOME.  I've had the pleasure of working with a lot of talented girls, and let me tell you, it's been pleasant, but not for the "eye candy" aspect that Chaplin or others would so quickly attribute my stance to.  They're great because they're a change of pace; even the girls who are "just one of the guys" bring something unique to the table.  It's not unicorns and stars, it's just a different shade of what the other members of the team bring.  That said, if girls are upset about the lack of "girl games", then perhaps more of them should be trying to enter the industry.  As I said, as long as they can perform, they will not be turned away by any company that knows its elbow from its ass.

TLDR version: She has balls to call our industry juvenile by cherry-picking poor examples and ignoring the rest of the medium as a whole, and especially to compare us to the movie industry in the same breath.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

ME is under deved and has weak general dialog(some parts of it is good but it has simply to many drop points same for FO3).
BS is very under deved,bugy and limited by censorship.
FO3 is a bland MMO clone the only real thing it has ample quality of is level design, the equipment is bland and skill system unfinsihed thus it can not sustain peeked interest through out the whole thing, the dialog has issues not to mention the rushed ending to get it to market. Hell Morrowind had equipment customizing IMO FO3 is a downgrade....

The development style of the industry is VERY immature.

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Yeah, this is what I mean.  Many games just take generic storylines and situations and turn them into generic dialogue. It is fun, of course, but not "mature." 

 

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Dailog is genreally not my sticking point I rag on gamepaly and equipment issues frist and formsot.

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

What do you mean by "under-deved"?

Also, you're choosing the quality of the dialog to attack in ME?  Really?  The single aspect of the game that's probably garnered the most praise since its release?  Really?

I have no idea what you're talking about with Bioshock.  Again, what does "under-deved" mean?

The general game development community disagrees with your evaluation of Fallout 3, as it won Game of the Year at the GDCAs.  The general game player community would probably also disagree, considering its sales.

The development process of the industry is immature, for a variety of business-related reasons I'm not going into.  But the development style of the industry is coming along fine, in my opinion.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

ME has good dailog thats plauged with it stoping mid conversation, thus why I rag on it(and the witcher and FO3) on dailog.

 BS is heavly under deved its a striped down and rushed to market SS2 wanna be... which would not be so bad if it was finsihed....


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Mass Effect: Great dialogue, marred by the constant 'land in the Mako, fight the controls AND geth' sections and copy+paste bases to 'explore', not to mention frame rate and loading issues. KOTOR was far superior in everyway but graphically.

Bioshock was a dumbed down System Shock 2, good but not great.

And Fallout 3 was way WAY too buggy and rushed to be the GOTY. Sales is no indication quality lumi.

-------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

ME: You are so freaking right about that, but only on the 360. They got a lot of bugs out for the PC version.

BS: And it seems like they rushed through the last 1/3 of the game.

FO3: Didn't think it was a MMO clone, but it is the epitomy of everything that is wrong with the developement process. Morrowind was too until FO3 came along though ;)

On the whole, you make very good points.

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Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I like how everyone on the comments is jumping up and down yelling, "mainstream movies are still crap, therefore she's wrong!"  When's the last time any of you lot went to a repertory cinema?

Not to say I immediately agree with her; games have definitely grown up quite a bit already in various ways.  But it's nearly impossible to find something that can't be slotted into that power-fantasy designation, even in a remote way.  No matter how good the plot, level design, or gameplay balance gets, games at their core still consist of either "become more powerful and emerge victorious" or "you already are powerful, so go out and win."  (Even as I say it, I know it's a stretch.  But think about it in terms of Super Mario Bros.: you're a superhuman jumping machine who sets out to save the princess.  It's clearly not trying to embrace the fantasy, but it still plays into it.)

At some point, somebody's going to figure out how to design quality games that avoid those dynamics, and then gaming will break through another watershed and grow up a little more.

---
The Mammon Philosophy

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Fangamer

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

So how does Myst fit into the whole power-fantasy designation?

-Gray17

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

All I did in Mirror's Edge was run and jump. But I get what you're saying. The same thing can be said about a lot of movies though. "Guy trains hard, goes out and kicks ass", "Guy already trained hard, goes and and kicks ass."

There'd probably be an improvement in games, when we stop buying those action-packed blockbuster titles. I don't see that happening for a long time. Nor do I see people itching to buy an interactive novel and pop it into their 360s and PS3s.

- Stand back! I have an opinion, and I'm not afraid to use it.

- Stand back! I have an opinion, and I'm not afraid to use it.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

So how does Tetris fit into the power-fantasy?

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I don't think most repertory cinema's are considered mainstream. Don't they usually show old movies?

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

My local places show a mix of classic stuff with newer but lower-profile shows that aren't getting picked up by the big theaters.  Maybe that's not really repertory?  But I don't know what else I'd call it.  "Independent" makes it sound like they only show things that have been produced on 16mm and screened at SxSW.

---
The Mammon Philosophy

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Fangamer

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

and only featuring gay cowboys eating pudding ^.^

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Ok this is only slightly related to the article....but am I the only one who thought citizen kane was a HORRIBLE movie?

I sat through the entire thing because so many people talked about how great it was, and i felt like i just wasted a good 2 hours of my life (i was gonna say three before i double checked on wikipedia....felt like three hours)

More related to the article, every time a designer tries to make a game more adult themed (i'm not talking about showing sex, but just featuring sex as a plot point) the designers get attacked for marketing the things to kids.  How are the designers supposed to put out a more mature product when the journalists jump on anything mature they put into the game and attack it.  Sure, postal 2 and other games are juvinelle, but so was loaded weapon and naked gun.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I'll disagree wiht you on Citizen Kane, but I felt the same way after having seen The Godfather.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

One thing you have to realize with Citizen Kane is to take it in context.  It was really groundbreaking on a lot of technical things.  A lot of the things that are common now were done first (or at least Kane was one of the first) to do them.  So perhaps the story isn't all that great but technically, especially from a first time director, it was an amazing achievement.

 

 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Yes, you were.  It's not the greatest movie of all time as the American Film Institute seems to think it is (Casablanca is far better, for one) but it does great things with plot structure, and nobody's ever used the deep-focus technique to such incredible effect since.  Of course, it has lost a bit of its mystique ever since its ending became common knowledge -- "Rosebud" was the original "Aeris Dies."

---
The Mammon Philosophy

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Fangamer

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

While the film is credible for what it did to the film industry, I don't see it as Great.  Though i also consider great to be synonymous with timeless.  I saw gone with the wind, and while it wasn't my style of movie, i still thought it was a good film (though i HATE that ending, sorry i hated scarlet's character and her taking this stuff in stride annoyed me).  Just because you're the first to do something doesn't make what you did great, just innovative for it's time.  Innovative twenty years later though is just the SOP.

Oh well, i just didn't like the film i guess.

 

 

edit* guess this isn't the place to say i'm not a fan of the FF games either (though that has more to do with art direction)

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I love that comparison =D

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Yes I would say the game industry needs to grow up but not quite for what she is going on about. I can say they need "improvement" on how  they handle development time and priorities if you are going to pay a premium for gaming(any game over 40$,console over 250) they should not under develop(polish,control options,features like gore,sound,music,voice volume, more varied minor gameplay toggles)/ support(bugs, very poorly built parts, bad manufacturing,bad keys/DRM) and this all befor dealing with core issues of modern game design itself with rushed and simplistic level design that looks great but functions(layout/explore) poorly, safe and bland gameplay implementations that are utterly generic and boring.

Moving on(ohhhh I wish >>) I can agree to a point with content depth but perhaps me thinks she needs to get away from action based titles and look into RPGs and Strategy games, FF 6 and ZOE fist of mars are good examples of relatively deep and moving games then expand on to more modern counter parts.
But from my POV as mostly an anime fan ""LULZ plots"" are more frequent when a industry focusing on as much of the mainstream as it possibly can tis going to be contorted and convoluted just because you can not please everyone and tis far easier to please the greater numbers of the witless and slow.

 

 Edit

I forgot to rail on writing/dailog qauilty...

============

GP why not updated the article with the poll insted of makign a new article?

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

What she doesn't understand is that that's what these games are meant for fantisies.  People know that they can;t do things like that in the real world so they escape into video games as an escape.  Games are not meant to be simulations of actual life.

 

"Logic will always prevail. Execpt in politics of course, thats fucked." Darkrider/Rocka

"Logic will always prevail. Execpt in politics of course, thats fucked." Darkrider/Rocka

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Ugh, it sounds like she is basing her opinion on games that fit her viewpoint. What about games like ICO or SoTC, these had you play as a pretty weak main character who had to use your brains to get anything done really. She makes it sound like every game out there is a shooter which just isn't true. She ignores the fact that in movies there was a lot of crap released besides Citizen Kane (at the time it came out), likewise for rock and roll. She just comes off as biased and it doesn't sound like she's played very many games based on her opinion.

 

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Ironically, two days earlier in that very same room, Ueda Fumito was on a panel (with Suda51 and Emil Pagliarulo), during which Ico and SotC were both praised as beautiful, artistic, medium-advancing games.  Guess she missed that one.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Typical of a game "journalist". These people need to shut the hell up. They aren't actual journalists, they aren't reviewers, and they aren't even good bloggers. Basically, they are just pompous douchebags who bitch and complain about shit that really doesn't need to be criticized or complained about. Who cares if some games are juvenile? Who cares if they don't all take themselves seriously? Somebody who actually appreciates mature and intellectual games should realize that there is plenty of room in the industry for games that are just about blowing aliens heads off. Not every game is about the story, or deals with complex themes. Some of them are just about fun, and there's nothing wrong with that.

And I love how she called herself a translator between the mainstream and the industry. Nothing could be farther for the truth. In reality, she is completely disconected from both parties. It would be a lot more accurate if she had said she was a translator between pretentious assholes and the industry.

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

.....I love you.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

double post, not sure how that happened =(  Sorry!

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I wish I had been able to record Chris Hecker's "rant".  It was entitled "Please Do Your Job, Well" and it was directed at the panel (i.e. all journalists).  It was great.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

While I am not sure she stated it very well, I think she has a point.

As others have pointed out, she focused on the blockbusters. And just like the movie industry the blockbusters are pretty shallow action flicks and such.

What the movie industry does differntly, as an industry, is it gives more focus (one could say, disproportionate focus) to the more artsy type movies.  The industry gets these movies out, parades them around, gives them big high profile awards, and otherwise tries to bring them attention.

The game industry is starting to do the same thing which is good, but could probalby stand to do more of it.  There needs to be more awareness outside the industry of games other then the blockbusters.  Advertize them more, have awards, get mainstream press _talking_ about them.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

The Independent Game Festival Awards were given out in conjunction with the Game Developers Choice Awards last Wednesday Night.

The way I look at it, that's like running the Sundance Film Festival in conjunction with the Academy Awards.

At the very same panel as the one Miss Chaplin spoke on, Clint Hocking basically lambasted AAA developers for not learning from indie developers in recent years, citing particularly successful titles like Braid.  "Not only have we not learned from them in the last year, but they've been learning from us.  If we don't get our shit together, we're not going to be making AAA titles anymore because they're going to put us out of business."

How much "artsy" focus would you like us to have?  You can't deny that the indie scene has made incredible progress in a relatively short period of time.

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

I like the indie scene. They are much more experimental when it comes to gameplay. The biggest reason is they are not driven by the publisher's desire for profitability and huge market share. Publishers want games that will sell millions of units. Indie developers are more concerned about getting their game out. Just read Lonathan Blow's comments about Braid. He bascally said he could care less about making a profit on the game. His reward was getting the game done and out there. But I am sure that the money he has made from it was a nice bonus.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Journalist to Game Biz: Grow Up

Colour me cynical, but that could have been so people think 'What a nice man, I'll buy his game because he is so nice to us gamers'.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
 
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Should 'Hatred' have been removed from Steam Greenlight?:

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Matthew WilsonI hope its released to netflix or amazon12/18/2014 - 12:11am
prh99Basically they've given every tin pot dictator and repressive regime a blue print how to conduct censorship abroad. The hecklers veto wins again. At least when it comes to Sony and the four major theater chains.12/17/2014 - 11:55pm
MaskedPixelante"It's not OUR fault that our game doesn't work, it's YOUR fault for having so many friends."12/17/2014 - 9:48pm
Matthew Wilsonapparently tetris did not work because he has a full friends list12/17/2014 - 9:21pm
WonderkarpSo Sony cancelled the release of the Interview. was it ever confirmed that the Sony hacking was done because of that specific movie?12/17/2014 - 8:54pm
MaskedPixelanteWow, Ubisoft went four for four, I didn't think it was actually possible.12/17/2014 - 8:37pm
MechaTama31Oh, ok, I was mixing up "on Greenlight" and "Greenlit".12/17/2014 - 8:23pm
Matthew Wilson@phx you beat me to it. how do you screw up tetris?! my ubisoft this is just stupid. no one should ever preorder a ubisoft game again! ps people should never preorder any game regardles of dev.12/17/2014 - 6:28pm
PHX Corphttp://www.ign.com/videos/2014/12/17/what-the-heck-is-wrong-with-tetris-ps4 I give up on ubisoft12/17/2014 - 6:01pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://comicbook.com/blog/2014/08/16/exclusive-original-unaltered-cut-of-star-wars-trilogy-to-be-rele/ Yeah, this'll never happen.12/17/2014 - 5:03pm
NeenekoThey have and exercise control over which games are allowed on their privately controlled 'open forum'. Their endorsement is fairly minimal since it is only 'we do not reject this', but it is still an endorsement of sorts.12/17/2014 - 3:58pm
NeenekoHistorically there have been issues with libraries allowing some groups but not others. Perhaps 'endorsement' is too strong a word, but their editorial control IS a preapproval process, even if the standards are pretty minimal.12/17/2014 - 3:56pm
E. Zachary KnightLet's put this a different way. My local library allows any group to reserve and use multipurpose rooms. That does not mean that the Library endorses all events that take place in those rooms.12/17/2014 - 12:54pm
E. Zachary KnightValve's editorial control comes from removing problem games and accepting games to Steam. They make no claim over any games otherwise.12/17/2014 - 12:52pm
E. Zachary KnightNeeneko, It is not at all a form of endorsement. Grenlight is an open forum for game developers to pitch their game to Valve/Steam and Steam users. Does Valve have some editorial control? Yes, but not to the point that they preapprove games.12/17/2014 - 12:51pm
Neeneko@EZK - I disagree. Greenlight is built off Valve's brand. While not an explicit endorsement, it is a form of it, otherwise Greenlight would have no value over other platforms.12/17/2014 - 12:05pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.latino-review.com/news/exclusive-viola-davis-bags-amanda-waller-role-in-suicide-squad Latino Review says Viola Davis will be Amanda Waller. History of Latino Review says "wait for a REAL news site to confirm".12/17/2014 - 10:48am
PHX Corphttp://www.polygon.com/2014/12/17/7407869/assassins-creed-unity-glitch-broken-problems-xbox-one-patch -Facepalm- Screwup means Assassin's Creed Unity's patch is the 40GB full game on Xbox One12/17/2014 - 10:17am
PHX Corphttp://www.theverge.com/2014/12/16/7401769/the-mpaa-wants-to-strike-at-dns-records-piracy-sopa-leaked-documents Sony leaks reveal Hollywood is trying to break DNS, the backbone of the internet12/17/2014 - 10:05am
E. Zachary KnightA Game being on Greenlight is not an endorsement of said game by Valve, Steam or anyone related to Valve or Steam. Greenlight is a combined sales pitch to Steam and its users.12/17/2014 - 9:51am
 

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