Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's AppStore Frustration?

May 5, 2009 -

A shaken baby game gets cleared for sale, but an official Nine Inch Nails app is rejected because users might hear some bad language from the 1994 album The Downward Spiral. Never mind that the album itself is readily available from the music side of the iTunes house.

Such are the vagaries of life on the iTunes AppStore, where an ESRB-like app rating system seems increasingly preferable to the hodgepodge system now in place.

While NIN frontman Trent Reznor (left) is not the first to vent about the AppStore situation, he may be the best-known celebrity to call Apple out. In his rant, Reznor even managed to pull Wal-mart and Grand Theft Auto into the mix:

Thanks Apple for the clear description of the problem - as in, what do you want us to change to get past your stupid... standards?

 

And while we're at it, I'll voice the same issue I had with Wal-Mart years ago... Wal-Mart went on a rampage years ago insisting all music they carry be censored of all profanity and "clean" versions be made for them to carry...

 

NIN refused... My reasoning was this: I can understand if you want the moral posturing of not having any "indecent" material for sale - but you could literally turn around 180 degrees from where the NIN record would be and purchase the film "Scarface" completely uncensored, or buy a copy of Grand Theft Auto where you can be rewarded for beating up prostitutes. How does that make sense?...

 

Come on Apple, think your policies through and... get your app approval scenario together.

Thanks to: Longtime GP reader ZippyDSM...

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Comments

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...

This whole argument over Reznor's comment is preposterous and I think demonstrates the obvious admission that you all know that some video games are incredibly violent. Reznor's argument is not citing video games as being particularly negative due to violence, if you read his original post (includes STRONG language) you'd realize he is arguing against hypocrisy.

Some of you called this a slip. A slip of what? A slip of the truth? (Reznor made an album called the Slip....) You need to reconcile the fact that games like GTA are violent! Ok. Now that we have that clear, is violence in video games really a bad thing? Please deal with the actual reality of your favourite pastime instead of burying your heads in the sand like cowards and making straw-man arguments.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Like it or not, what he said about GTA was technically correct, prostitutes drop money even if you don't fuck them. Also, I think the fact that he made the soundtrack for Quake, and was a pretty big Quake/Doom fan, shows that he isn't anti-videogame either.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Also, note how he said you "can" be rewarded, rather than the usual implication that you're FORCED to kill innocents.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...

I feel sorry for him.

Like no artist wants to be forced to make their art clean or censored because of what would the parents think.

But then again, I guess not many people in the music industry understand that even Videogames have had some bad things said about them that weren't even true.

I have known allot of people who are into the music scene, and they don't know much about videogames. So I can understand why he would somehow say that about GTA though his fustrations.

 

TBoneTony

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...

He didn't say anything wrong or incorrect about GTA. There is prositute killing if you wish, and you are rewarded for doing so (like any people in the game) in the form of cash. He is a gamer and loves games, but used what he said to highlight Walmart's stupidity.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

in GTA if you kill someone for their money and your spotted doing so the cops will come after you in other words you get punished aswell as rewarded.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

I was all for this guy until he brought up the usual non-existant "Point system" in GTA.  I know that you can beat up people for money, but those aren't actual points for high scores or anything...and lets not forget the cops that will soon follow.

And I've always had a problem with these "Unrated" veersions of movies, but I have a feeling there might be some underhanded actions in going on

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Oh come on, I've joked with my friends about GTA before, talking about how often I kill hookers and run over people. He didn't even say "points" he said "rewarded." Which you do get rewarded: you get some money and the satisfaction inherent in hooker-killing.

Also, this guy is very pro-game and pro-rights, he is in NO WAY the enemy, and meant his rant to showcase Walmart's hypocrisy. He told no lies and was both funny and loud at the same time.

Learn to dig deeper than "huurr GTA points he's stupid hurrr"

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Well, first of all, he didn't bring up the point system. He said "rewarded", which is completely valid, although it's not like the reward is anything meaningful.

And secondly, GTA does have a points system, at least in least San Andreas. I don't have GTA IV, so I can't say for sure if it does or doesn't have points. Then again, he wasn't specifically reffering to any GTA game in particular.

In any case, I think it's ironic when gamers yell at the media for not doing their research and saying that GTA grants points for certain actions, when in fact it does. Of course, the media didn't actually do their research, they were really just pulling stuff out of their asses based on 30 year old gaming conventions.

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

I suppose the thing that gets people's goat is the fact that it's always prostitutes that are mentioned, as though there is some kind of special reward for doing so, and that is a lie, you do get 'points' for killing a prostitute, in the form of cash, but the items dropped are no better and no worse than the items dropped by ordinary citizens.

What censors try to do is make it sound like the game encourages people to kill prostitutes by making them give special rewards, above and beyond standard rewards, when they are killed, which isn't strictly true, it just makes a better sound-byte when it is implied that it is.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

And in the form of actual points. I don't actually know if you get more points for killing a prostitute than a normal person, but yeah, I doubt it. You can sometimes get extra money for killing hobos. Hobos apparently carry a lot of cash on their person, according to GTA. I wonder if that's true or not.

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Trent has a good and valid point. How come Apple and Walmart in their respective venues dictate that they need 'clean' music, when they sell other Mature/R/NC-17 games and movies? Trent has as much right as those folks to be as 'bad as he wants to be'.

Give the guy a break...

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

I once asked that question when I worked at Wal-Mart in there electronic department and never really got a clear answer to it.  The only thing I got was that the company has never brought the issue into enough focus to really take the effort it.  In comparison to other electronic medium, music CDs were always constantly having there prices lowered and the mark-up on them was never very high.

More or less this pretty much equalianted to me: They don't make enough on it so they don't give enough of a damn to make any alterations.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

It's just another affect of many parents being too lazy to check the media that their child is consuming and then kicking up a stink when they catch little Johnny watching 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' or the like.

Maybe, just maybe, if parents had actually bothered to learn about the media equipment, and realised that almost all media equipment has parental controls, this wouldn't have happened, but the government has done so much to encourage parents to be lazy, and expect companies and organisations to 'protect' their child, that parents really do need to be given a wake up call, and many of them have to learn that raising their child is their own responsibility.

That said, of course, in order for that situation to arise, Apple would need a rating system in the first place, rather than simply arbitrarily passing and banning things at a surface glance...

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...

A rating system would definitely have prevented Trent Reznor's frustration, but how would it benefit Apple? How would implementing such a system make them more money? That's the real question to ask.

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...

If they advertise it -> potentially. If they allow more "adult" games -> potentially a fair amount of money.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

try as I might, I can not take the man with the name of a Super Mario World boss seriously. Even if the name of the boss came from him.

That being said, Apple needs to stop censoring everything. They're becoming another 1990s Nintendo...

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Would you be talking about the NES publisher restraint or something entirely different?

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

That's what I would be talking about. That, and the censoring of Mortal Kombat for the SNES.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

"Rewarded for beating up prostitutes"... sure thing, whatever you say there Jack Reznor.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Again, I repeat, this man wrote the music for Quake.  I read somewhere that he even claims to have last 2 years to playing it and hence didnt release any albums during that time.

To paraphrase, don't assume malice to what can be attributed to ranting.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Its still a bad phraze that can be easily misintperuted...



I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

It's a great phrase for the situation that half of the users on here are misinterpreting!

When I read it, I chuckled. Because although the reward for killing a hooker is equal to that of other civilians, part of the fun is being like "lol hookers i run them over then take their money."

It was pretty clear to me that he meant it jokingly, I don't get why everyone else got all their panties in a bundle. You overreactors are part of the problem with getting the gaming message across. Shouting "liar" when there is none.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

I don't deny that, and maybe someone will have a word in his ear about it, but comparing him to Jack is frankly ludicrous.  For starters, Trent is very much Pro-gaming.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

I agree with his point, but Rez lost some cool points for that statement.  Not cool, Trent.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Why? You are rewarded by getting money and points (Don't know about the point system in IV, I'm just guessing it's similar to San Andreas), so his statement is true. And it's not like he's saying that it's bad to do this, or that GTA immoral. He's just saying that his music shouldn't be censored if other media with violent or disturbing content isn't censored.

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...

I didn't think GP would post mew quirky news fodder. Shows me!

The main reason I sent it in the GP was the GTA gaffe you don't get points/rewards for killing hookers you might get your money back...and cops hunting you...
But anyway the deeper issue is how silly apple is being and just bluntly hypocritical warmart is when they want music censored but happy to sell  NC 17 films as unrated, what good is a rating system if it can be bypassed IE "unrated" anyway.


I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...

Take that apple!

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...



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"The sun will always rise tomorrow. We can only live for today, and hope more days will come." -Unknown

-----------------------------



"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...

Censorship? In MY works?

I think not.

-----------------------------



"The sun will always rise tomorrow. We can only live for today, and hope more days will come." -Unknown

-----------------------------



"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's ...

Hunt you down without mercy 
Hunt you down all nightmare long 
Feel us breathe upon your face 
Feel us shift, every move we trace

I fuckin' love that commercial

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

I agree, but GTA doesn't reward you for beating up hookers.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Well that is the reason I didn't add GTA to the comment. My opinion was that Trent is protecting his messages in the songs he sings from being tortured. Believe me listen to an explicit music cd edited is not a pretty picture, it sounds almost completely muted when it is edited.

What we got here is failure to communicate!

What we got here is failure to communicate!

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Then what is the money they drop? And they drop money regardless of whether you just used their services or not.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Right, but the NOT being rewarded part comes in when the police show and kill/arrest you.

 

So whlie there be an arguable benefit there is no reward. Crime in GTA results in punishment. Mostly.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

 lrn 2 play gta

1. kill prostitutes

2. kill cops

3. steal armored vehicle cops drove to get you

4. ?????

5. PROFIT!

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

What he said. Has anyone in the history of GTA ever said "No I better not, the cops wont like it"

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Yeah, when trying to get from A to B with a battered heap of a car that I needed for the mission.

--
A house is not a home unless it contains food and fire for the mind as well as the body. Benjamin Franklin

--
A house is not a home unless it contains food and fire for the mind as well as the body. Benjamin Franklin

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

i do it all the time (well, not really, since i don't play gta much anymore). i would see a really tempting target, or a big crowd of people i could drive through, and then i think "i'd better not, i don't want the cops on my ass".

 

It is not murder; I am merely advancing the hands of the clock, just a bit.

It is not murder; I am merely advancing the hands of the clock, just a bit.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Fits your signature quite perfectly then, doesn't it? =p

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

I usually try not to drive on the sidewalk when I'm on my way to a mission that would be easier without cruisers smacking into me from across the intersections.

Usually.

---
The Mammon Philosophy

---
Fangamer

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

I never try to run over people in GTA.

Unfortunately that's what always happens.  I SUCK at driving in GTA.  and in Far Cry 2 i always run the jeeps (and only the jeeps) off bridges.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Money drops from any person you kill in the game. What all of the alarmist game haters and unfortunately Mr Reznor here say is that you get rewards for specifically targetting prostitutes in the game, which is not true.

The amount of money dropped does not vary very much between any of the pedestrian npcs. Using their powers of ignorance I could claim that GTA rewards you for killing black people because they drop money.

There are no missions or objectives or achievements that require you to target and kill prostitutes in any of the GTA games.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

 Get over yourselves, he was speaking hyperbolically. I understand how you all feel, constantly having our games twisted and turned to sound evil for political purposes, but that's not what happened here. 

Pick your battles.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Exactly. He made a slip (obviously pissed), and it was probably out of his mouth before he said it.

Point being, he's being descriminated against where others slide by, and that's not right.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

I wouldn't really call it a slip, to be honest. If I was pointing out the hypocrisy of Walmart, I'd probably say something along his lines, knowing damn well that you don't get "rewarded" per-say, other than personal satisfaction. He used it to prove a point, and we shouldn't all get in a bundle and assume he meant it seriously...

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

This is the man who wrote the music for Quake.  I'd suggest to you that he knows more than a little about computer games, it was purely that he was ranting and went a little too far.

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

Gaffes happen all the time and we and others take everyone tot ask when they try and pull things like this willingly and above board even if they are lining through their teeth via hatred,spite or ignorance.

 

Just becuse its a innocent gaffe dose not mean it should be noted and called out in part to bring to light the greater issue and in part to squelch the misinformation.

 


I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

what the frig are you talking about? when you kill a prostitute and you get money I would call that a reward, and if you can get away from the police after they come after you you get to keep it, so his statement of being 'rewarded for killing prositutes' stands entirely correct, there's no falsehood there, okay, so you get rewarded for killing regular joe too, big deal, so he didn't say 'rewarded for killing people including prostitutes' big whoop such a big distinction

you guys are making a huge deal out of a guy who is arguing for equal treatment between different media, exactly the same thing everyone here is arguing for day in and day out, and for the record, if the transcript is correct, he said "can" be rewarded, not 'are' so it's not like he's arguing the entire game revolves around the assault of prostitutes, merely that you have the ability to, unlike some arguments in the past from the media where they make it sound like the entire point of the game revolves around killing hookers

seriously guys, don't get your heckles up at the wrong people

Re: Would a Rating System Have Prevented Trent Reznor's

@Zephyrus

What the...?

Zephyr Analea, is that you?

-----------------------------



"The sun will always rise tomorrow. We can only live for today, and hope more days will come." -Unknown

-----------------------------



"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar
 
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Andrew EisenI'm not keen on blind links. What is it?04/18/2014 - 3:45pm
Matthew Wilsonthis is worth a whatch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyXcr6sDRtw&list=PL35FE5C4B157509C904/18/2014 - 3:43pm
MaskedPixelanteNumber 3: Night Dive was brought to the attention of the public by a massive game recovery, and yet most of their released catalogue consists of games that other people did the hard work of getting re-released.04/17/2014 - 8:46pm
MaskedPixelanteNumber 2: If Humongous Entertainment wanted their stuff on Steam, why didn't they talk to their parent company, which does have a number of games published on Steam?04/17/2014 - 8:45pm
MaskedPixelanteNumber 1: When Night Dive spent the better part of a year teasing the return of true classics, having their big content dump be edutainment is kind of a kick in the stomach.04/17/2014 - 8:44pm
Matthew Wilsonhttp://www.giantbomb.com/articles/jeff-gerstmann-heads-to-new-york-takes-questions/1100-4900/ He talks about the future games press and the games industry. It is worth your time even though it is a bit long, and stay for the QA. There are some good QA04/17/2014 - 5:28pm
IanCErm so they shouldn't sell edutainment at all? Why?04/17/2014 - 4:42pm
MaskedPixelanteNot that linkable, go onto Steam and there's stuff like Pajama Sam on the front-page, courtesy of Night Dive.04/17/2014 - 4:13pm
Andrew EisenOkay, again, please, please, PLEASE get in a habit of linking to whatever you're talking about.04/17/2014 - 4:05pm
MaskedPixelanteAnother round of Night Dive teasing and promising turns out to be stupid edutainment games. Thanks for wasting all our time, guys. See you never.04/17/2014 - 3:44pm
Matthew WilsonAgain the consequences were not only foreseeable, but very likely. anyone who understood supply demand curvs knew that was going to happen. SF has been a econ/trade hub for the last hundred years.04/17/2014 - 2:45pm
Andrew EisenMixedPixelante - Would you like to expand on that?04/17/2014 - 2:43pm
MaskedPixelanteWell, I am officially done with Night Dive Studios. Unless they can bring something worthwhile back, I'm never buying another game from them.04/17/2014 - 2:29pm
PHX Corphttp://www.msnbc.com/ronan-farrow/watch/video-games-continue-to-break-the-mold-229561923638 Ronan Farrow Daily on Video games breaking the mold04/17/2014 - 2:13pm
NeenekoAh yes, because by building something nice they were just asking for people to come push them out. Consequences are protested all the time when other people are implementing them.04/17/2014 - 2:06pm
Matthew Wilsonok than they should not protest when the consequences of that choice occur.04/17/2014 - 1:06pm
NeenekoIf people want tall buildings, plenty of other cities with them. Part of freedom and markets is communities deciding what they do and do not want built in their collective space.04/17/2014 - 12:55pm
Sora-ChanI realize that they have ways getting around it, but one reason might be due to earthquakes.04/17/2014 - 4:42am
Matthew WilsonSF is a tech/ economic/ trade center it should be mostly tail building. this whole problem is because of the lack of tail buildings. How would having tail apartment buildings destroy SF? having tail buildings has not runed other cities around the US/world04/16/2014 - 10:51pm
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