Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill Today

May 6, 2009 -

The Louisiana Senate will apparently discuss a Jack Thompson-authored video game bill in a hearing scheduled for later this morning.

The Senate Committee on Commerce, Consumer Protection and International Affairs has SB 152 on its agenda for today.

The measure was proposed by Sen. A.G. Crowe (R) and is similar to the Thompson bill which recently passed the Utah legislature before being vetoed by Gov. Jon Huntsman. Like the Utah bill, SB 152 would hold companies that advertise age restrictions on products guilty of a deceptive trade practice if the product is then sold to someone underage.

While video games are not specified in the measure, they were clearly Thompson's intended target in crafting the legislation.

A review of SB 152 indicates that it goes a step beyond the Utah bill by also holding retailers guilty of a deceptive trade practice for selling a product labeled with an age restriction (for instance, an M-rated game) to someone underage. This section seems to be very close to the type of content-based sales restriction which federal courts have consistently found unconstitutional.

In addition, the bill requires retailers to check the I.D. of buyers and to post signage indicating that I.D. will be checked.

GamePolitics has left messages for Sen. Crowe to inquire about the bill. So far, he has not returned our calls. We asked Thompson last night whether he would be testifying on behalf of SB 152 today. He told us it was uncertain whether the hearing would go forward today. However, we reached a staffer in Crowe's office this morning who told us the hearing would take place.

UPDATE: The committe is webcasting its hearing now. Click here for the committee list. Click on the TV icon to the right of the Committee on Commerce, Consumer Protection and International Affairs to watch the hearing. The committe is now discussing SB 29. As I write this the Thompson bill is fifth in line for consideration.

UPDATE 2: We had to wait until the very end of the committee hearing to learn that Sen. Crowe has deferred the SB 152 hearing until next week. Join us then...


Comments

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill

I said it before and I will say it again:

Utah was an example of John Bruce trying to skirt the First Ammendment. This bill is John Bruce attacking it head on.

I really hope that these guys have not forgotten the spanking they received over their last bill or the 9 Federal Court Precendent setting rulings on similar legislation, nor Utah's recent dealing.

I really hope that these guys do their research and can it now.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill

I really hope they do their homework as well, EZK.

Though said I don't believe too many of them do. Utah obviously did not and perhaps only now they wished they really did.

Yeah looking at this new 'bill' it is a full on attack on the 1st Ammendment (I am Canadian and that is pretty much clear as day :P). I'm surprised Jack actually has a willing sponsor. Especially after the last disaster bill he tried to launch during the Katrina days.

Thankfully Utah is in fresh memory and some word of what had occured there may filter down and help strike this law dead. Otherwise I have a feeling this is going to be a rinse and repeat scenario, complete with Jack name calling and provoking his 'opponents' on this bill (ah who am I kidding...he'll do that regardless).

My faith in politicians in general will be renewed if they actually take the time and review this bill and the man who authored it.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Does anybody else find it hilarious that he attempts to get these laws passed in every state except for the one he calls home, please correct me if I'm wrong, but he's never attempted to get a legislation passed in Florida has he?

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Ya not sure why he hasn't tried to pass legislation in floridia... part of it could be ihs little "the flordia bar is out to get me" conspiracy... though that didn't stop him from trying to get rid of Bully. It is possible that Jacks antics have become loud enough that their is not a state sentor in florida willing to sponser anything he writes... though that's a bit of a long shot as politicians seem to be blind to Jack's antics... seriously, with the way Jack acted in Lousiana last time, i figured he had burned his bridges.

Another possiblty that sorta goes along similar lines of the floridia bar conspiracy is that Jack hates liberals and "activist" judges and thus actually recognizes that he might have trouble getting the law passed in Florida as it is a swing state... as such he goes to more religious conservative red states where he thinks the people would be more willing to pass his bill... use those states to create a precedent and then move on to other states using the previous state as "evidence" of it's consitutionality in order to shut up the "activists" judges

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

He tried to get Bully and Halo 3 banned in Florida as public nuciances (sp?). His immature behavior over the Bully case was a big part of his permanent disbarment. 

His reputation amongst the legal community in Florida is such a joke that any laws he might attempt to push through would be ignored.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

True, but the Halo 3 thing was just an attention grabber, it was making headlines and he wasn't, that must have really stuck in his craw....

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

He was involved in attempts down here in one way or another, but I can't remember if any of his actual authored bills were attempted here or not.  The main reason he has to go out of state to do this is the fact that his antics that lead to his disbarment stepped on too many toes and destroyed any of his political clout.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill

I'm surprised they even let this bill get this far.  You'd think that the politicians would remember the fact that had to pay a hefty legal bill shortly after Katrina because of his last bill he got pushed through there and that this one wouldn't even be able to get a sponsor.

No, wait.  You know I'm more surprised by?  The fact that so many states are willing to waste time on legislation being pushed by someone that isn't even a resident of that state.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

"A. It shall be an unfair or deceptive trade practice for any retail business to sell or distribute any goods or services which are labeled with an age restriction or recommendation on the packaging to any person who is under the restricted or recommended age."

 

I do not see how this would not be unconstitutional, unlike Utah, where it was if they advertise they don't, then they are responsible.  However, in this case, they are responsible for enforcing private age ratings regardless of if they advertise they do or not.  As worded it would probably apply to MPAA age guidelines in theaters as well, since they are services from a retail establishment for recommended ages, and it doesn't have any "parents can overrule" such rule.  This would also apply to T-rated games for under 13, not just M rated games (and also PG13 rated movies).  There are many other unintended consiquences with how this is worded, and it is a good deal worse then his Utah proposal.

EZK: Edited to add the not in "not unconstitutional as a clarification made by dan888 further down.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

*Phew* good thing I read the comments posted before I started a three-page reply to this. Lol.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

So yo are saying that a board game that says "reccomended for ages 12 and up shouldn't be sold to an 11 year old?

 

 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

This law says that, I would never though.  As said above, I forgot a single word (the word 'NOT') in my first statement.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Because it gives a voluntary ratings system (which the MPAA and ESRB are) the force of law, which is unconstitutional under the 5th and 14th Amendments.

Because courts have already ruled that people under the age of 18 can not be restricted from content (not inclusive of "obscene" content under Miller v. California) found objectionable.  Yes, people under 18 have First Amendment rights.

Because they can't demonstrate actual harm from all of those "scientific studies" that Jack keeps inventing.  You can't restrict speech without "imminent harm" being proved under the First Amendment.

Because compelled speech also violates the First Amendment.

And also because it would unfairly restrict a person without proper ID from buying a game like Monopoly, which has an age recommendation on it.  (Not a violation of the Constitution, per se, but is just retarded.)

 

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Damn, I made a huge mistake, I forgot a word

 

"I do not see how this would be unconstitutional"

 

I meant to say I do not see how this would NOT be unconstitutional.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill

Sigh... Do they never learn? How many black marks does a lawyer need before they're just too slimey even for a lawyer?

47 more states and Canada is in trouble.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

What's wrong with ppl, why do they keep going to Thompson for legal advice and write bills, when he got disbared.  If i were a lawyer or politian, I would treat disbarred attoneys as lepers... 

I just don't get it

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

I don't get it either. The fact thats he's disbarred should have been enought not to lisen to his bill.

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

The problem is that when you get down to it, poliitcans and those who work for them(assistants, etc) don't do enough research.  All Jack has to do is lay down the "family" or "it's for the children" cards, and instantly gets a poliitican interested who is going for re-election and trying to get the "family" vote.  They don't look to see what Jack's record is or the really psychotic stuff he has done.  Even if the bill fails, they can show the "family" voters that the politican was trying to look after them.  Which is why I don't care much for either Repub. or Dems.  Both want big goverment, its just different versions of it.  Personally, if you don't live in the state or have some store/business there, you should have little say in getting a bill passed in said state.  You can come to be a witness to give "advice" on the stand, and you should be able to challenge said witness to the claims he/she makes. 

Something I don't understand is the majority of all M plus games, etc that get in kids hands are bought by the parents.  So, age restrictions/checks aren't going to mean much, especially if by the way Jack is writing some of these crazy laws will apply to everything.  I work retail part time, and I can imagine the horror of pretty much having to card everyone in the store.  "I'm sorry sir, I know you look years older then that "teen" rated item, but I still have to card you."  Lets face it most pre 15 and 16 year olds aren't going to be walking around with state issued ID cards.  I know I didnt until I was 17.  So even if Jack gets his crazy laws to pass Constitutionally, it pretty much wont change anything.  Even if kids(pre 16) are getting M games, how are they getting the money? I can understand if a 16-17 year old, who has a part time job, has some extra spending money and drives over to a store.  However, if a 10 yr old came up to me with a 365 positions for every day, I would likely be asking where his parents are lol.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill

He's obviously trying to get chased out of every state in the country.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill

I'll chase him out of PA personally.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill

Is anyone keeping track? I've counted FL, UT, and soon to be LA.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill

Just don't chase him over here when he's done. Keith Vaz is quite enough thanks.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

I hope my friend's efforts, Garnet, weren't in vain. When I heard GP report this I had told her about it since, few days before, she told us how JT got a bill passed during the troubling times of Katrina and no one knew of it since people were too busy saving lives. She's despised him for taking advantage of the people in Louisiana, and how one of her friends were needlessly effected over said bill.

When I told her, she got right on the phone. With her job, she knows a lot of people who were fed up with JT. They did a letter writing/phone campaign about Jack Thompson and how they do not want him writing any more laws into their state... oh, and what kind of person he is. Hopefully, they listened but chances are, they probably didn't.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they do not give this bill the light of day.

Amy Levandoski

Amy Levandoski

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

That is awesome, Amy.  Thanks for the effort, and thank your friend too.  Hope it helps.  Yeah, going as low as he possibly can is pretty much Jack's modus operandi.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Not a problem. I'm just getting tired of ignoring this person who is obviously taking advantage of the system and people's fears. I can't do much but if I can tell the right people, who can then get others to say NO to Jack Thompson then it is all I can do. There isn't much one person can do, but I've never felt so passionate about speaking up against this guy.

... and I don't have a fax machine so I'm safe! (had to say it)

Amy Levandoski

Amy Levandoski

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

If Jack goes to Kansas, I want to see him debate Fred Phelps.

Phelps makes Jack look tame, though according to a guy I know, who will only be addressed under the name "Titan Kougen", Jack IS tame. Anyone wanna call bullshit? I warn you, Titan, age 15 or so, is a critic of GP, and probably won't care about what you guys say about him.

-----------------------------



"The sun will always rise tomorrow. We can only live for today, and hope more days will come." -Unknown

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

They're both intolerant idiots who don't listen to anyone opinions but thwir own. Not like they'd actually talk about anything.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

They would probably find common ground over Homosexuality though, both have the attitude of an SS-Officer with regards to things that are 'different'.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

What would they debate? Which one has the most "righteous" cause? There is nothing real interesting for them to debate about. Usually debates should be reserved for differing opinions.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Debate about who has the biggest e-penis?

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

JT did look at gay porn (to send it to the county judge)...so to Phelps JT would be a sinner...

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Bwaaaahaahhahahaha, man i've never found politics so fascinating :P how about you guys?

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I am a signature virus, please copy and paste me into your signature to help me propagate.

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Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Are you kidding? I check this site everyday just to see what danger Jackman gets himself into and how he'll make it even worse!

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game Bill

This should be interesting...Is there anyone in the area that could go watch the proceedings?

 

Sortableturnip's Law: As an online discussion of video game violence grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Jack Thompson approaches 1

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Seconded, I am curious on how this will go.

"SB 152 would hold companies that advertise age restrictions on products guilty of a deceptive trade practice if the product is then sold to someone underage."

I am guessing with the above quote Thompson is aiming at the developers/publishers, but they have no control over who actually buys the game, the retailers do.  So all in all, the developers/publishers are free to do what they want, because they are not responsible for the retailers actions.

Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

So this one is more than just a "Truth In Advertising" law.

It hold retailers accountable for false advertising (like saying "No M's to Kids" then turn around and do it).

Then it says even if they don't advertise the policy, they can still get in trouble for selling a game to someone underage.

That goes for T, E+10, and even E (6+) rated games. If Gamestop sells and E+10 game to a nine-year-old, they're in trouble.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Retailers don't do what Jack is alleging. I'm 20 years old and bought FEAR 2 last night and I got carded.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

By the end of the game, you'll realize why they did. 

"HEY! LISTEN!"

"HEY! LISTEN!"

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

I'll keep that in mind. Is the AI as difficult in the second one like they were in the 1st? I like a challenge!

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

They're pretty good about hiding behind things, and using grenades to flush you out of hiding yourself.  Also, if they have a rocket launcher better be dang careful, they lines those shots up pretty quickly and accurately.  Ridiculously easy to die from one of those.

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Ya, the law they tried to pass in Utah was actually pretty close to being constitutional in my opinion... it basically said "if you advertise your policy, then it's deceptive practice not to follow that policy" which does sound like the gist of "truth in advertising"... grant it, the law still had it's problems, but it had some potential to pass... however one of the problems with the law as far as game regulation goes was the fact that the law was rather toothless due to the fact that all retailers needed to do was NOT advertise their age restriction policy... if they ever mentioned such a policy all they would need to do is be vague about it like saying "we TRY not to avoid selling M-rated games to minors" or "we do our best not to sell these games to minors"... by being vague they can say they never promised not to sell the games to minors... not to mention another potential problem is that i think "truth in advertising" relies a lot on intent; if you intended to decieve the consumer then it's false advertising, but if you did not have the intent and it was more like a mistake or accident, then it's not considered false...

 

Jack however wanted the bill to have some teeth to it and in doing so has set himself up for a fall in court. I mean looking at some of the pieces people are quoting it does not look like a retailer even needs to advertise the policy anymore... the bill says out right that it would be "deceptive practise to sell age restricted games to minors"... and even if that wasn't in there, parts of the bill seem to say "if you advertise that you have a 'no sell age restricted games to minors' policy then you MUST follow it... oh and ALL retailers must advertise that they have such a policy"... Essentially, they are forcing the retailers to advertise their policy and then saying that it would be illegal for them not to follow it... it's like somekind of legal trap set up in a sad attempt to get around consititutional law

Hell, when fighting the law, one of the things i would point out is that the ESRB ratings are defined as age RECOMMENDATIONS and not age RESTRICTIONS... and thus they should not even fall under this law as it is worded

Really, all in all, Jack ruined any potential his bill had and crafted yet another bill that will get torn apart by the courts. As Yahtzee might put it, Jack took "one step to the side, and one step back into a ditch full of used surgical equipment."

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Since ESRB ratings are suggestions rather than restrictions, then that means the burden of responsibility goes back to the retailers who use the ratings to back their business policy of disallowing sales of certain games to certain age groups. And unlike ESRB ratings, policies are usually enforced, not suggested. So the bill seems to have the same old effect again, despite an attempt to divert the responsibility to different groups.

GameSnooper

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Oh wow. So this law is 100% toothless. Shit. We don't even need to fight it, because your last point makes the entire law worthless.

EDIT: Cancel that, looked at the below comments

 

I'd still fight it because I believe all unconstitutional law should be rid of, and we should figure out some way to hold legislators liable for wasting tax dollars passing something that is knowingly and blatantly unconstitutional and is done to try and make themselves look better.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

Ya my bad, seems the bill does say restrictions OR recommendations...

 

Though still... the utah bill was possibly passable but really rather toothless, while his new bill is just blatantly unconstitutional

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

I'm not even certain you can enforce a recommendation under law, seems a complete contradiction to me, it's like saying that not eating food according to the serving suggestion could be punishable by law, or not going to church should be punishable by law, a recommendation is not a command, it is advice, and advice is to be taken or left, if someone starts using law to enforce recommendations then that is the first step on an extremely slippery slope, next thing you know, any little thing that government would 'like' you to do would become open to the same kind of reasoning.

The most dangerous words in the English language are 'For your own good', because they assume that the person doing the dictating has more knowledge of what is 'good' for everyone than the person being dictated to. Thompson has that kind of arrogance, we all know that, I'm a 37-year old, married man, I don't need some burnt-out has-been disgraced lawyer dictating to me what I can and cannot have in my house.

Thompson's made his true goal obvious on several occasions, even going so far as to write to Obama and try to co-erce him to ban ALL games, he threatened to do the same thing in Utah, so there can be little doubting where Thompson's real goals are, I don't know whether he is too monumentally stupid to realise what is wrong with his law, or too monumentally stupid to realise that everyone can see what he's trying to do with the wording, just trying to decide whether the choice of words is deliberate or accidental.

Ah well, I suppose in the end it all adds up to Monumentally Stupid...

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

jackie and crew did a pretty good job of trying to close any loopholes that were in HB353. 

The problem is that in trying to close such holes this bill steps aawwwaayyy past the point of being constituational. 

btw where did the picture come from for this article.  I have not seen it before I am pretty sure that is the same GTA he has been trying to use a hammer.. I find myself wondering just how fond of it he has gotten.  Did he buy a case of them?

Re: Louisiana Senate to Consider Jack Thompson Video Game ...

If i recall, that Photo comes from Jack's LAST attempt to pass legislation through lousianna... sitting next to him was the senetor (Ray burrel? or something like that) who was the sponser that time. He was put under the belief that flash games like "border control" must be resticted, which showed how horribly uniformed he was as he did not know that as a non-mainstream online flash game, no legislation would get rid of it...

Jack told his usual lies, The bill passed with no problem, got signed into law, was challenged in court, Things start to look bleak, Jack acts like a twat to the people on his side for not doing things his way, then claims he is withholding "evidence" because he was being made the center of attention, Bill fails, and Jack blames everyone else for it's failure...

 
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