Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

May 7, 2009 -

With the national debate over the use of torture raging on, could a steady diet of violent entertainment color some Americans' view of what has euphemistically been dubbed "enhanced interrogation"?
 
Writing for the liberal-leaning Huffington Post, Kari Henley opines:

If we are going to truly come to terms with abiding by moral codes against extreme acts of violence, we first have to start in our own living rooms... We say we "don't f**#$ torture," yet Grand Theft Auto is our favorite video game.
 
Let's face it: Americans are repeatedly exposed to serious scenes of violence when we go out to the movies, watch nightly TV shows, or unwind with video games, all of which drastically decrease overall sensitivity to violence.

To be fair, Henley’s views on the supposed desensitizing effects of violent entertainment appear to come primarily from the claims of longtime video game critic Dave Grossman. After spending a few paragraphs on violent TV and movies, Henley returns to video games:

What about these modern X-Box and online video games? While I happen to enjoy the "G" rated Wii, over 11 million people are spending their time engrossed in the World of Warcraft or Grand Theft Auto where the point is to go around and kill people in a calculated way. Tell me again why this is supposed to be fun and relaxing?
 
It's time to put torture in its place as unacceptable, period, both in our nation's military practices, and in our nation's entertainment standards.

-Reporting from San Diego, GamePolitics Correspondent Andrew Eisen...


Comments

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

The reason people find torture 'acceptable' is because it's been rammed down everyones throats that if we don't torture them ay-rabs theys a-gonn' NEWK us Jaysus-lovin' folks! Or give us the anthracks or something  equally absurd. How many of the people who you DIDN'T survey actually played games with any regularity? How many were Church-going, God-fearing Christians who bought whole hog into the 'if we don't torture 'em for information, we could get blowed up!' garbage the US Government had been spewing since the media found out about it?

 

This smacks of scapegoating for your own personal beliefs, which has happened throughout history by such peaceful events as EVERY ETHNIC CONFLICT EVER.  Think very hard, my dear, if you really want to blame people who partake in violent FANTASY ENTERTAINMENT (Not even REAL violence, like has been done since two proto-chimps untold eons ago started fighting and the others decided to watch) for all of the worlds ills. 

I know your type believes in a 'slippery slope'...and you might be starting down one, towards...who knows.  But it's been well-travelled by many others.

 

 

 

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

This woman is nothing more than an arrogant moral zealot. Always spouting crap without looking for proof.

Unfortuantly for us Australians, we have a government full of morons like her

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

"Answer: Guantánamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, the Sopranos, Dateline, or World of Warcraft?"

Is she seriously arguing that simulated violence that happens inside a computer processor is worse than real torture in an American-run prison? Ridiculous. It's as if she doesn't even understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

 

"Every time a child plays an interactive video game, he is learning the exact same conditioned reflex skills as a soldier or police officer in training."

Really? I can shoot a German soldier with a rifle from 250 metres away, provided it's in a video game, but I struggle to hit a tin can with a BB gun from 10.

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This is a signature virus. Please copy and paste into your signature to help it propagate.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Might I comment that a handgun has an extreme range of 25, while a rifle can shoot quite farther than that. Though 250 metres is a tad extreme for a normal rifle.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Oh pplleeaazzeeee..... if finctional violence is bad ban it all and see how the world falls under fascist ninnys who want to protect everyone from thinking!!

 


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Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Considering the correlation with someone's age and Conservative political slant, I'm certain that the majority of waterboarding supporters do not even play video games. This is the biggest knock against Kari's theory.

GameSnooper

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

I play video games, and someday want to make them, but I support waterboarding.  Do you have a problem with that?  I support waterboarding as a method of interrogation, because the way the US Military did it involved a time limit and more medical staff present than interrogation staff.  Also, the only recorded death involving waterboarding wasn't a direct result of waterboarding.  The muslim man was aggrivated by the sight of a woman in a swimsuit (because she was in the pool next to him) and this aggrivated his un-diagnosed heart condition.

 

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

Even if there were torture games, do ficticional polygon characters have constitutional rights?

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

This really makes no sense. First of all, why is there a freaking argument over torture? Torture is torture is torture. Now the only question would be: do we allow the goverment to torture it's enemies? My opinion is no, but I don't think we should allow the goverment much of anything.

Obviously, video games have nothing to do with torture. And this persons argument is fail.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

"Today the data linking violence in the media to violence in society are superior to those linking cancer and tobacco."

*headdesk*

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Is Grossman still on an anti-games kick, or has he moved on to other bullshit crusades?  

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

The horrible crazy man still is. His tinhat is just as bad as Jack's is.

The last time I heard of him, he was in my city trying to blame video games over the shooting of Lawrence King in Oxnard.

But he will go on and on about how good reading is no matter what's the material, but video games make you into trained killers the instant you touch the controller. And by the way Grossman has written some ultra-violent Sci-fi novels to top that sweet hypocritical cherry.

Seriously, I'm not kidding: http://www.amazon.com/War-Earth-Leo-Frankowski/dp/0743498771

Laughing Hyena

 

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Yet another so called "expert" spouting the same anti-game rhetoric.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

1. Citing Grossman = auto-fail.

2. On the subject of desensitization, no amount of violent video game playing prepared me for watching my friend get shot in front of the nightclub I used to work at.

End of line.

"De minimus non curat lex"

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

God damn, was it fatal? Or did he recover?

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

No, but he was in critical condition for a while there.  He made a complete recovery about a month later after some physical therapy.

Thanks for asking

"De minimus non curat lex"

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

 I don't think anyone else has posted this yet. But go read the actual Huff article. It contains the following gem:

"Every time a child plays an interactive video game, he is learning the exact same conditioned reflex skills as a soldier or police officer in training."

Now I'm not really sure what is meant by 'conditioned reflex skills'. If it means anything like 'upon seeing an enemy, the person is able to reflexively bring their gun on target and fire' then...wow.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

No I really think that the soldiers' and police officers' reflexes involve a little more than thumbing a gamepad.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

That, right there, is the most ridiculous, overblown, inflamatory, shocking and downright irritating thing I've ever read on this subject.

I have said this before, and I shall now say it once again...

If this were even remotely true, why am I not an expert marksman ? Why have I not been recruited by a military contractor for my amazing firearms and insurgence skills (I've put in more hours than any trainee I guarantee it) ?

Why am I not a world class race car driver ? Why am I not an olympic level athlete ?

Why am I not the head of a government or the ruler of a small country ?

Why am I not a highly paid and respected criminal investigator ?

Why am I not a jet fighter pilot ?

Because (and I often am amazed that I have to ever say this) when I play these things I am learning to play a video game... I am not learning to perform the equivilent real life task.

I'm honestly shocked. And I'm not easily shocked. Sheesh.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Also, it shows that people on both politial parties have something to agree on. IT's not jusr the republicans or just the democrats.

 - Warren

Consumer responsibility is just as important as Corporate responsibility. So, be responsible consumers.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

"What about these modern X-Box and online video games? While I happen to enjoy the "G" rated Wii, over 11 million people are spending their time engrossed in the World of Warcraft or Grand Theft Auto where the point is to go around and kill people in a calculated way. Tell me again why this is supposed to be fun and relaxing?"

When it comes to GTA, I find driving mindlessy around Liberty City and listing to Eagle Fourm Live (Becuase it sounds SO much like WKTT) relaxing.

"I thought I liked GTA 4, until I played Saint's Row 2; then I realized that GTA 4 made the game realistic at the expense of the player's experience."

Dude, I found that out the moment I steped back and played San Andreas, but they are ALL for driving mindless around :3

 - Warren

Consumer responsibility is just as important as Corporate responsibility. So, be responsible consumers.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

You can't compare the acceptance of fake violence with acceptance of real violence. Because one is real and one is NOT.

If I watch a movie about the Holocaust, does that mean I support it? I'm pretty sure it doesn't...

Honestly though, I don't have much to say about this that hasn't already been said. Stole my damn thunder...

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

On the one hand I'm glad the article mentions movies and TV rather than focusing solely on games, on the sane hand though if the author honestly thinks that we would all be up in arms about this more if we didn't have those "influences" she's living in a fantasy world.

Humans are violent by nature, it impossible to find a civilization anywhere that doesn't rely in some way on hunting, killing or fighting to survive. Part of our violent nature is inherent, we can (in most cases) overcome this which is why we are so great at surviving (being able to overcome our natural instincts in needed situations) but that also doesn't mean that violence should be wiped entirely from our social awareness.

Even with all the hyper violent games, movies, and television shows we ingest we still have soldiers coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan with shell shock or combat psychosis or whatever they are calling it this time. You can't truly desensatize someone who is mentally stable to violence with media, it takes either  a combination of a mental instability and a lot of violent media or real violence to desensatize someone.

While I applaud the author for being able to address all types of media in her post rather then just lambasting a single source that doesn't make her reasoning any worthier of the national attention.

Yes, violent media can desensitize some people. If you don't recognize that you are at least somewhat affected by what you see, read, watch, and play then try turning the sound off during the commercials on TV and you'll realize how big of a difference it can make in what you're thinking.

However in all the studies I've seen that study this effect, it is temporary.

Making the statement that we need to get everyone to think the same way about a subject is not necessarily progressive. While it isn't listed in the constitution one of the most fundamental rights, to the point that it shouldn't even have to be mentioned, is the right to free thought. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, whether the author or a poster agrees or not. The point where those beliefs become a problem is when they start infringing on another person's rights, say like torturing them without legal ramifications, murdering them, or I don't know preventing them from watching, reading, or engaging in roleplay about certain concepts and ideas.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

What Kari Henley really needs is a good "nooner" with a subsequent "hummer."

Really Kari... go have sex. It's obvious you need a RELEASE.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

And you just know that after reading this that she read a violent book, saw a violent movie, or watched a violent tv show.  If the GTA series had never been made into a game and rather was put onto Broadway it would probably be heralded as art. 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Well all this would explain why i keep getting shot in the face with a duck hunting rifle by a guy called DiCK_CHanY_666 while im playing killzone.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

I would like, if I may, to take you on a strange journey.

Here is my rather radical opinion on popular interactive entertainment series Grand Theft Auto.

When I watch a movie (for instance; Scarface) I am told a story. During that story swear words are uttered, drugs are taken, people are slaughtered horribly and etc.

When I get to the end of that story, I have experienced everything that the creators of the piece inteded, and it has in some form affected me... No matter whether that was to make me happy, sad, angry or bored... It affects me somehow.

The important point is that I have no choice but to experience what was created in a linear and complete way.

Gears of War, by way of example, is the same. I walk through an environment, on room at a time, and everyone I encounter I slaughter as quickly as possible so I can make it, alive and well, to the next room to slaughter some more.

Personally, I love Gears of War... I'm just objectively describing the experience.

Now, let's move on to GTA. In that game I have a world which has been created for me... and within that world (to the best level allowed by current technology) is everything I would encounter in the real world, and they all behave exactly as they would in the real world too. People, cars, buildings... etc.

Then the game dumps me into that world, and (and this is the crucial part here)... I can do anything I want !!

I can drive within the laws of the road. I can never hurt anyone. I can help people, buy food, go for walks in the park, go watch a show, or buy new clothes.

I can get a girlfriend, pursue an exclusive relationship with her, and choose to merely enjoy her company and never pursue her for sex.

I can spend time with my friends and family, enjoying the attractions that the world has to offer.

I can take helicopter rides around the city. There's even an achievement for taking them all.

Yes, there is a story... and by taking part in that story some bad things happen to my character, and my character does some bad things. However, for the most part my character is only aggresive to those who initiate violence against me, and often times I can decide whether to bo violent against people or find some other alternative.

Plus - I don't need to involve myself in this story at all... I can just watch TV and hang out with my cousin at the bowling alley.

Ya see, it's all about choice. And that respect it's rather like real life isn't it ?

Sure, I can take a car and run over 20 people on the sidewalk. I can also pay to have sex with a prostitute and then beat her to death. I can also buy a sniper rifle, camp out on top of a building and shoot passers by.

But I could walk away from my console and do that in real life too, if I wanted... It's all about choice.

If I did, I would suffer consequences though wouldn't I ? Well, so do I suffer in the world of GTA. I am arrested if I do bad things. If I refuse to be arrested I am shot and killed. In either case a chunk of my hard earned money is taken, and if arrested all my instruments of destruction are taken from me.

Consequences. Choice. It's kinda like life.

I would therefore make a case that GTA is the most moral video game out there. It's all about who you are as a person. Your own conscience and your own moral code. You choose who to be and how to behave and the world merely reacts accordingly.

Not many games do this... and therefore I'm never really sure why GTA is always held up as the best example of the terrible influence of video games. All it does is react to who the player is as a person. If anything, it's a barometer for the mental state of the person playing.

I submit the following recommendation... Instead of demonising GTA, and pursuing it's desctruction in the name of the children... let them all play it as much as they want... but WATCH...

If your child delights in walking through the park feeding the birds, your probably OK. If he cruises the streets, slowly, looking for hookers or victims, you probably should lock him in a small room with no windows and call the authorities.

Either way ... the game is not causing problems... it's trying to tell you something.

That is the end of this public service announcement. :D

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Wow...I like it. I see it the same way too. Like real life, its all about the choices you make.

 - Warren

Consumer responsibility is just as important as Corporate responsibility. So, be responsible consumers.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Violence in media has been around a lot longer than you and me pal.

Can anyone imagine her doing this rant around the late 16th century.

"Oh hear thy cry, us poor Britiainers doth be exposed to wretched filth in our entertainment. For even the plays that doth grace the Globe be so filled with violence and murder that it doth desensitize us. Woe for the fate of Britain."

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

I can imagine that she'd be arrested for it in 16th century Europe.  Women, save the Queen, aren't allowed to rally people, and any woman doing so is a heretic and a witch!  BURN HER!

 

"That's not ironic. That's justice."

"That's not ironic. That's justice."

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

I just find it nice to know that someone is out there attempting to play baby-sitter to all of us wayward humans... after all, this world is waaay to scary and complicated for any of us to be relied upon to make our own choices.

I'd be honestly suprised if this article was written for any reason other than a quick dip in the "Violent Videogame hot button" publicity pool.

Why can't fluff writers just come to terms with the fact that they have no integrity?

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Seems to me that people who's minds opperate like this are one of the reasons why we torture. They just can't separate violent media from the real world. Does conscience ever come into play here? No, of course not. It's all very mechanical. If little Billy sees violence, he will become a violent adult. It's never considered that Billy might just be a dick with no sympathy for the suffering of real-life people, and that videogames or TV had jack shit to do with it.

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

www.igda.org/columns/clash/clash_Dec08.php

Violence is a proxy for in-game progress. And to goal eventually is to complete the mission, and not kill all the bad guys.

It is programmatically easy to represent progress in an action game through some violent act.

Violence is easy to implement, hard to misunderstand [don't know about this one], and time-tested. Unlike complex themes such as estrangement and friendship and ambition, unlike detours and air ducts and alternate routes, unlike negotiation and diplomacy and compromise, violence was communicable using the limited technology in the games of yore.

GameSnooper

 

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Sadly when people who are passionate about real life issues, but then start to take out all their fustration on things that don't really have anything to do with real life and try to blame it all on our entertainment then they really don't understand how horrible it is that people like this are being paid to write this trash.

Honestly, I love to kill videogame characters when I play Videogames, but that is because THEY ARE NOT REAL PEOPLE!!!!!

But when someone kills someone else in real life or on the news, I know it was real and therefore I feel sad and disgusted. But it never takes away any of my enjoyment in my fantasy entertainment because I of all people know what is real and what is not.

Lady, if you bitch and moan about problems in real life that are out of your own control, then I would like to be the first to let you know that you need to get a life and start making your life allot more better.

 

I really wish I could have the power to stop torture, I would really wish that I could have the power to stop world hunger and poverty in this world and hope to make the world a better place.

 

But you know what?

 

Over all the years of my wishing for World Peace and that stuff, while it is really honest and good, can only lead to an entire life of misery and depression when you finally realise that there is nothing you can do in this world.

 

But there is something you can do, and that is to try and forget about the problems in the world and focus on trying to help yourself in your real life.

 

Try and get a new job, and try to live life to help people who live near you and make them feel happy and like be someone to lets them know you care for them.

 

That is the only way any one of us simple people can really change the world, but only in our own lives can we ever do that in the smaller things in life.

 

Like my old man once said, you can think Globally all you like, but what you need to do is to act locally and try to make your life better by trying to understand things better in your life instead of being negative all the time.

 

TBoneTony

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

I´m tired of people calling us psychopaths just because we play videogames.

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Me too.

 

But guess what, I am just not going to listen to what they have to say.

 

Because in reality, those people who call us loosers and say that we have no lives, well I think that from all the time they spend worrying about the world and how they try to lobby others to try and change the world to fit their ideal utopia, THEY are the ones who need to get a life.

 

TBoneTony

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

I can respect your right to have an opinion, just...don't touch me with it.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

"While I happen to enjoy the "G" rated Wii[...]"

-Deep announcer voice.-

Medias.

Rated W for Wtf.

 

"[...]over 11 million people are spending their time engrossed in the World of Warcraft or Grand Theft Auto where the point is to go around and kill people in a calculated way."

First, wrong, we're at 12 millions, you are a year late lady.

Second, WoW does feature calculated killing since it's all about crunching numbers. And killings things that don't exist. Don't worry. GTA does feature pacifist missions, like taxi driving or paramedic-ing.

Third, we're not engrossed, we're blood-thirsty monsters. Dind't you know already?

 

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Not always blood thirsty... I'm actually quite full for now, but I may be blood thirsty again around 5 PM...

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Benjamin Franklin

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

I hate these fraking populists who preach their own morals and tries to apply them to you and me. Not everyone is as like minded as you are, I'm sorry but that's life and that is how it works. Your statement is equal to something like "If you like Physics that means you like to use Nuclear Weapons.". ARGGHHHHH. These are probebly the same people that think my love for guns translates into my love of killing people.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of Torture

I love guns. I also love killing people. But I keep those two hobbies strictly separated. It's quite expensive, though, bullets are much cheaper than proper strangulation ropes, skimasks, good quality knives, renting a car for a good drive-by or hit-and-run...

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Wow thats an awfully tall soapbox the article author found to stand on. Is the air thin up there? How does it feel to be better than the rest of us Kari? Does it feel good with your moral fiber all puffed up?

 

Get real... you sound like a pompous ass.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Meh, liberals are often the same people who jump to defend individuals who behead civilians and perform "honor rapes".  It's all relative. 

At the end of the day, this woman is just another technophobe with a holier-than-thou attitude looking down on others.  No different from your garden-variety conservative columist.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

And lemme guess, you're also one of those fucking idiots who believe all socialism is Communism too.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Socialism is just a watered-down communism, meant to make the people feel as though they still have some amount of power and wealth, when they really don't.  At least communism is honest enough to let the peons know that they can't get ahead.

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Careful, your ignorance is showing.

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Fuck you.

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Psssst.

I think you may be confusing "liberals" with right wing racist groups.

I thought conservativism was about personal responsibility, not blaming everyone but themselves for their electoral and intellectual failures.

Face it, your party lost. It's supposed to taste like a shit taco.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but we're already naked."

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Yep, you sure got me there.  I am clearly a conservative.  My track record on this site is a dead giveaway, isn't it?

 

Re: Columnist Equates Violent Games With Acceptance of ...

Just as your idiocy is.

 
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quiknkoldpeople should not be harrassed and punished for the actions of a few. I've always welcomed and accepted everybody who wanted to join in. Who wanted to make them, or play them. I love good strong female protagonists, and want more.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldOne of the tennants of Gamergate is to stand up against Harrassment. That Gamers arent like those assholes. We can argue for days if the Sexism or Antifeminism or corruption is there or not, But the one thing I believe in and wear on my sleave is that09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldBut there were these websites, attacking me and people like me, for the actions of a few. and then others joined in on Twitter and other places. there was a hashtag that said "explain in 4 words a gamer" and it made me sick.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldManchildren who are awful people and that the Identity of the Gamer should die. This hurt me personally. I've always identified as a Gamer. Even in my childhood years, I was a Gamer. All my friends are Gamers. Its one of the core parts of my identity.09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
quiknkoldUltimately, With the whole Gamergate thing, I jumped on it due to the harassment. A small number of assholes harrass Anita and Zoe, and then all the publications lumped together Gamers as this collective of Sexist White Bigoted Basement Dwelling09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
quiknkoldEZacharyKnight : Lemme ask you a question. We have people who cling to walls, people who fire lasers from their eyes, people who can shapeshift....and yet fabric needs to be upheld to RL physics?09/17/2014 - 6:54pm
james_fudgebody paint?09/17/2014 - 5:33pm
E. Zachary Knightquiknkold, I stand corrected on the buttcrack thing. Still, I know of no fabric that actually does that.09/17/2014 - 5:05pm
Andrew EisenSo... it's unethical to discuss the ethics surrounding public interest vs. personal privacy?09/17/2014 - 4:45pm
prh99The source for the game was just released not long ago, it's at https://github.com/keendreams/keen09/17/2014 - 4:43pm
prh99An Indiegogo champagin bought the rights to the early 90's game Keen Dreams to make it open source and release it on GOG etc. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-get-keen-dreams-re-released-legally09/17/2014 - 4:42pm
james_fudgeAlso http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite09/17/2014 - 4:29pm
Andrew EisenI read the Kotaku story. Nowhere does it say anything close to "Gamers are white bigoted sexist losers." It's commenting specifically on the crap being slung at people discussing gender issues in games. So, what's the problem?09/17/2014 - 4:06pm
Andrew EisenYeah, I can imagine Spiderwoman posed like in your second link.09/17/2014 - 4:00pm
Andrew EisenThat's not the same pose. Spiderman (who is wearing an actual outfit rather than body paint) is crouched low to the ground. Kinda like a spider! Spiderwoman has her butt up in the air like she's waiting to be mounted.09/17/2014 - 3:59pm
 

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