May 12, 2009 -
Via Spong comes word that video games are not especially well thought of in the British House of Lords. In a recent debate on age verification, Liberal Democrat Baroness Walmsley (left) commented:
Knives, guns, certain games and DVDs, alcohol, solvents and gambling are all very harmful and can destroy young minds and young lives.
To be fair, the Baroness qualified her remarks somewhat:
While the illegal sale of all these products concerns me... I believe that the sale of weapons is the most dangerous.
Comments
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Baroness? Isn't that a villian from G.I Joe? So Cobra is now joining the movement against video games, all the more reason our side is right!
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
Video Games and Gambling!?! If this keeps up I won't have good games or play poker with my friends.
We don't need the government, all we need is Medicare, Medicade, and Social Security!
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
I see nothing wrong in her comments. Age restrictions on all of these products exist for a reason. I'm sure that to young kids they can be damaging that is why age restrictions exist.
Do I see her calling for a ban? No.
Do I see her calling for greater censorship and talking about how evil these things are? No.
Does she criticise games as a whole which the article leads you to believe? No. She says "certain games".
Also people would do well to remember that the Liberal Democrats are opposed to censorship. Again it's this overreaction from gamers over, quite frankly, one personal comment that doesn't really say anything negative.
I do love the freedom of speech argument, in that people try to portray games as having an educational element that helps people form opinions (I'm sure killing zombies helps to form moral viewpoints and political opinions). Games are silly bits of fun, I haven't learnt anything from them, haven't formed any opinions because of them. That's not to say that certain games should be banned, not made but they're not exactly important as people make them out to be.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
Ah, British nobility, always as close to reality as possible. ;)
Well, Madam, I think you should go out and meet some actual YOUNG people once in a while. And not only those from your very own class (rich or well off), but NORMAL people.
You will see, Milady, they have far more need for someone to actually DEFEND their interests than just another hipocrit who only wants to start yet another censorship campaign in their name.
ZAR.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
This piece is a bit misleading as she's not saying games are inherebntly evil, just that age verification on *certain* games isn't being properly enforced (which it isn't in the UK). Lumping them in with knives and solvents is slightly bizarre though and the association is admittedly unfair. That said, does anyone here honestly believe that young children should be playing games like MadWorld and Dead Space?
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
If by young children you mean those in their single digit age brackets and slightly above then i'd say Yes, I don't think they should be playing those games.
If you mean all people under the age of 18 then i'd have to say No. IMHO, by the time you're 14/15 and in High School, you should be able to handle just about any video game or movie out there. It's my view that adolecents and teenagers deserve full Free Speech and Expression rights. They should be able to form their own viewpoints based on unrestricted and uncensored access to media that presents ideas, information, messages and opinions. To do otherwise would be an indirect form of state sponsored thought and mind control.
Of course with that said if a child is still in their parent's home then the parent's still have the right to determine what their children can or can't watch, play, read or listen to. The state cannot.
"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
Ha, that is true enough to not show my dad!
We don't need the government, all we need is Medicare, Medicade, and Social Security!
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
That said, does anyone here honestly believe that young children should be playing games like MadWorld and Dead Space?
The majority of the people here believe that it should be the parents decision to let their own kids play those games and others with similar content. If a parent feels that their 14 or 15 year old is mature enough to play those games, that is their decision.
But to take that decision completely away from parents is a bad thing. We have plenty of tools available to help parents to make those decisions, we don't need a decision forced on parents especially when they would have chosen otherwise.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
Having a 14 to 15 year old, that's sensible enough to handle a violent game's content, isn't really the issue and "yes" parents should be allowed to make that distinction (if they're suitably informed about gaming obviously, something that many still aren't). The problem is that much much younger children are still gaining access to games like Call of Duty 4 , when they simply don't have the faculties to understand the context of the game in question and then replicate the visual stimuli from the game in real life (my 7 year old cousin was one such case). The ratings system is a body that needs to be supported, both in enforcing the restriction of violent games to minors but also through the education of parents who are buying the games in the first place. Anyway, I'm British and an avid gamer (just in case people are wondering).
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
Again that should be the parents decision.
Let me ask you, did your 7 year old cousin play the game without the knowledge of your cousin's parents? If they knew your cousin was playing the game and they approved whether through inaction or directly, they made that decision and they should not be punished for it no matter how bad we may think that decision is.
I agree that there should be more education of parents on the use of the ratings and parental controls on consoles and PCs. But I do not agree that the government should be the ones enforcing the ratings restrictions.
Through several several studies done in the US, it has been shown that unaccompanied minors buy games only 4-6% of the time. The other 94-96% of the time, they have parents with them. Now these unaccompanied minors can only successfully buy M rated games 20% of the time on average. This is due to the current voluntary ratings enforcement. Now take into account that M rated games only make up 12-15% of game sales each year, you are looking at far less than 1% of games sales are to unaccompanied minors buying M rated games. Is that really such a huge pandemic that the government needs to get involved with? I don't think so. Now keep in mind that any studies on the effects of violent games on children are speculative at best, where is the eminent danger that needs addressed here?
I am not saying that anyone of any age should be allowed to play any game, I am saying that it is solely the parents responsibility to teach and nuture the morals of their child when it comes to things that are not illegal, such as playing games and watching movies.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
No, because those games are a bit poo.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
Subjective opinions on functional proficiency aside, the violent context is the issue and one that needs to be addressed in relation to the younger generation of gamers. Protecting the creative rights of the medium is one thing but it must be tempered with a level of ethical accountability.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
And I'd point out that England/Wales/Northern Ireland (but not Scotland because they have their own body for enforcement) had a record-breaking year for age-restrictions being enforced. And record-breaking in the good way. So if the ratings are being enforced, how are children getting these games?
Gee, could it, once again, be the parents making the system fail? I think perhaps it might. They need to learn that HUGE red 18 on the front of the box does NOT mean "18 hours of entertainment".
(Sorry if that sounded like I was being snarky at you, I wasn't. It was just the style I went for in my reply!)
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
That's still the responsibility of the respective ratings systems to educate parents accordingly. Being dismissive doesn't help the issue, it needs to be addressed.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
Stupid people are always going to be stupid. Shoving a leaflet through their door explaining that "18" means for ages 18 and over isn;t going to change that.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons,
How do you educate a parent that doesn't give a damn? You can't pin the problem on the ratings system when the problem is with the parents. If the ratings are multi colored plastered on the box prominently and they still don't take notice what else can be done?
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
lolwut? Sale of weapons? What weapons can you still legally buy there?
http://www.eliteownage.com/nice
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Yeah, Knives I can understand, but what does she want to do about guns now? Make them double-secret illegal?
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Double Dog Dare illegal!
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
You can still buy Shotguns, but I think you need a special licence and possibly prove a reason to have it like being a gameskeeper or farmer. You can also buy swords here too, but as with knives you'd be ID'd before the sale would go through, in respectable shops anyway.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Try it out for us, tell em you need a shotgun for the traffic control and let us know what happens :)
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
From what I know, before applying for the shotgun licence, you need to buy an (expensive) gun cabinet, have that signed off for by an inspector (expensive), apply for your licence (expensive), have your background checked by the Criminal Records Beureau (not as expensive, but takes about 7 weeks), get your licence, then you can buy a shotgun.
But I'm not sure your regular john off the street wouldn't be denied for a licence even if they did all the above.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Three words to describe this moronic politican: Big idiot pol
In my opinion the british monarhcy should be replaced with a american style federal republic, so the people can voice thier opinion to parlement to prevent stupid moves like this(not advocating it. period)
Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights
America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
What does the house of lords have to do with monarchism? I live in a constitutional monarchy but in my country there aren't such things as hereditary seats. Besides, monarchs have now power in Europe. Look at Luxembourg and Belgium, the monarchs there objected to laws they had to sign so they were ousted for a short while. They really don't have anything to say in politics. It's even taboo for them to state their preference for a political party or ideology.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
The British House of Lords works just like the US Senate, and it's appointed in a similar way to the way the US Supreme Court is. It's just part of the governmental system of checks and balances. In many ways the House of Lords is more democratic than the Commons, because you get a whole spectrum of political thought, rather than the entrenched beliefs of the two major parties. Until Britain gets proportional representation, the House of Lords is an essential body.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Bull. Shit.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
What on earth are you talking about?
The monarchy have absolutely no power, replacing or removing them would not fix any current problem with the British government. Likewise, the House of Lords have very little power in comparison to the House of Commons. The latter is exactly what it sounds like (At least in theory), with elected representatives from the common people in their constituencies.
The baroness also said "certain games and DVDs", she didn't lump the entirety of gaming into it.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
I did say that it was my personell opinion
Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights
America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Personal opinion based on complete ignorance. Typical of what British folks see from Americans.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Are you suggesting, then, that at the moment the Birtish public currently *don't* have the ability to voice their opinions to parliament?
You do realise the UK is a democracy, right? With elections and stuff?
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Not to mention the fact we have had significantly less controversy over elections than the U.S. had with Bush. At least for the last 15 years or so anyway.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
The United States was not meant to be a democracy of that type anyways though. The election of the President was meant to be done by a group of elites, and was meant to be seperate from what the public wanted. Electors from the electoral college were supposed to vote for who THEY thought was the best choice, not who the public voted for. The founding fathers (correctly) assumed that the majority of citizens would be too stupid to vote for the best person. Many also disagreed with the idea of factions (or parties) and argued against the dominance of political parties in government. So, because of the stupidity of us Americans, we have gone against both of these concepts and did exactly what the founding fathers wanted us not to do, and made America worse because of it. =p
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Indeed, the electors in each state just agreed that it was standard practice to just vote for who the majority of the state voted for (i think one or 2 states are an exceptions)... it fails on 2 grounds; first it puts the power of assigning the most powerful person in the country in the hands of people who don't know the first thing about good economics, international relations, military or anything... and second they do the people a disservice since they ignore the wishes of the 49% minority because they make it a winner take all contest... so their not just listening to idiots, but only the idiots in the majority (and with the way things are in each state that could mean leaving it all in the hands of the far left or far right)
However, i don't think there is an actual law saying this is how it was, it's just the traditional practice... Maybe one day we will start to see a break away from this and see how things are supposed to be down... though for that to happen, one elector is gonna have to have the balls to vote against what the majority of his state wants and actually vote for who he thinks is best in his more educated opinion.
it kind makes me wonder kind of people we'd have in government if the only people that could vote had to have passed a certain level of education... like only those who have gone through college are considered informed enough to vote; or taking it a step further have been studied and been tested in numerous and important aspects of politics.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
I'm glad you added the step further because I was going to point that colleges are prime recruiting grounds for groups like PETA, so maybe it's not such a good indicator of overall intelligence just graduating from one.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Ya, THAT and the fact that just because you don't go to college doesn't mean you're stupid... there are plenty of people whose only reason for not going to college is simply not being able to afford it. They got some decent brains, but not the cash for a good education... hence the possibility of just have would-be voters pass a certain like litmus test on aspects important to running a country. Pretty much prove that you can make an informed decision when voting.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
I point out that I'm a college student, and I hate PETA. I do agree with the assesment of most college students. The average college student is in that twilight phase where he/she is still naive enough to let themselves get spoon fed information, but is old enough to believe that they know more then everyone else.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
If anything, the American system is much, much less appealing than what we have.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Her education background is a BSc in Biology and specialisation in Cytology. And she ran a P.R. company. Guess this means she's an authority on everything, at least according to just how often the Lib Dems have chosen her to be their speaker on some really esoteric crap in the House of Lords.
Also: Her recreations include music, the theatre, gardening, rowing, and "good company".
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Once you're granted access to an open public mic, you can declare to be an authority on anything. And suddenly, the fact that you are standing there is more important than what you did to be standing there.
GameSnooper
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
@GP: That photograph of the Baroness doesn't quite do her justice. I would have run this one:
Where's her baronage located? In East Hagsville, County of Buttugly?
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Dude, she's a baroness. If you tap that, you get a fiefdom. (That's how Britain works, right?)
---
The Mammon Philosophy
Fangamer
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
I don't care if I'm getting an oil-rich country in the Middle East, I ain't tapping that. Yuck!!
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Your train of tought both amuses and disgusts me.
Well done!
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Not that anyone in the House of Lords has been in touch with the 'real world' or common people for over 200 years.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
The Lords are usually better than the commons, because they tend not to jump on the fearmongering bandwagons, unlike the folks who have to run for election every few years.
This particular member is just an idiot, and you can find idiots everywhere.
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
They don't need to be in touch with reality, reality needs to be in touch with them! don't you know how important those people are? they make the world spin and the sun rise and the tides flow and the.... well... ok so that was sarcasm... I could see her justify all her arguements with "Because I said so!".
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
You;re right, they MUST be important or they wouldn't be in their hereditary seat in the house, just like their daddy, and their daddies daddy, and their daddies daddies daddy, right back to the first Lord in their family who bought the title after making a fortune on the slave and opium business.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
You do know that most members of the House of Lords are actually appointed, with the view of making the whole house fully appointed, don't you?
Hereditary peers are becoming more of a thing of the past. Also the House of Lords existed a long time before the slave trade came about (although I particularly like your point that because she is white and in the House of Lords her family must have been involved in it, a nice display of bigotry from you there).
Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
Most does not mean all. I remember the vote on the phasing out hereditary peerages. I also remember the majority of the House of Lords voted against it, but were over-ruled and then tried to generally bog it down in procedure and throw up obstacles.
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Re: British Baroness Lumps Violent Games with Weapons, ...
As far as I can understand, the remaining heredetary peers elect a certain number of heredetary peers to various positions of the house of lords. Those who aren't elected don't get a seat. There are 92 left, supposedly.