Suddenly, there's a good bit of discussion in Washington, D.C. about the possibility of a value-added tax, or VAT.
For the uninitiated, a VAT is essentially a national sales tax. As the Washington Post points out:
Common around the world, including in Europe, such a tax... has not been seriously considered in the United States. But advocates say few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity...
A VAT is a tax on the transfer of goods and services that ultimately is borne by the consumer. Highly visible, it would increase the cost of just about everything... But VAT advocates say those negatives could be offset by using the proceeds to pay for health care for every American...
Should a VAT be enacted, it will tax every type of transaction involving a good or service. For gamers, that means disc-based and downloaded software, consoles, peripherals and even monthly fees for Xbox Live, Second Life and World of Warcraft.
The WaPo posits scenarios involving VATs ranging from 10-25% but concludes that a VAT is unlikely - for now.
Comments
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
I get taxed 30% of my pay already. Shut up.
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
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Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Yup, i get something like $5,000 paid to me from the GST program, because my family is low income.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Sure if congress caps pay and healthcare for themselves if you have more than 5 million in the bank/property you don’t get a paycheck or healthcare or travel expenses, you may apply for hardship but all your (and spouse divorced or not and children if living with you) finical records will be open to the public, not to mention default daily drug testing regardless of hardship or not.…
I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..
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Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
I have three answers.
No, NO, and HELL NO!!!
Economic stimulation isn't possible when no one has money, and at this point that's all that's happening, they're seeing to it no one has money.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Get rid of federal income tax and I'm for it. You either tax it when I spend it or when I make it, not both.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
I thought of that too, but that is not their plan. They want more revenue, not a new way to collect it. They are talking about adding this tax to the current system.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Science, and logic, dictates that most product with a price actually cost MUCH less to produce than the price they are sold for.
Why congress doesn't simply take 10-25% from the profit made? 10-25% more to pay is asking for the rivers to flow red with blood and frogs to fall off the sky.
It makes as much sense to the consummer.
Besides, what works in Europe, doesn't necessarly work or fits in America... Like the Metric System. Unless things have changed recently.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Because no matter what, the increase in costs are simply passed on to the consumer. So, if they went after profits instead of a sales tax, prices would still go up to compensate and the consumer would still pay for it.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
The worst aspect of sales taxes is that it affects the poor even more than successful people. I'm no fan of raising income taxes (Obama say's I'm "rich" which is bullshit), but at least those are better able to shield the lowest earners (or non-earners) from the brunt of it. Sales tax = poor people's tax.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
This is one of the most perpetuated myths about sales tax. The person that spends the most contribute the most.
* If you spend more than you earn then you have bigger issues than taxes.
* If you spend close to what you earn, the person with higher earnings contribute more.
* If you are frugal with your money, you contribute less.
What's better, higher earning people can't cheat on sales taxes as easily as with income taxes.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
The problem with most taxes is (sales tax in particular but most taxes have similar effects) is that the lower your income, the harder burden it places on you, when your trying to live on minimum wage and your paying 8-10% tax on food, it hits you a hell of a lot harder then if your making 100k+ a year. And read my reply above and think about all the other taxes already levied on people for basic services, and tell me tacking on another 10-25% sales tax is gonna help anybody but greedy politicians.
Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
That's why it should be similar to the Michigan sales tax. It taxes 6% on goods but doesn't tax on food or drink. It taxes on "services" (like McDonalds) but doesn't tax at Kroger or on food. That way poor people don't get boned over from buying food but rich people that buy more goods/services (like video games and couches and cars and McDonalds and the like) still get taxed.
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
10%-15%? Bullshit, no VATS please.
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Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Your lack of enthusiasm for VAT is greatly shared by us Euro-folk.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Who is going to pay for obamanomics? In his third month in office he spent more then any U.S President in US History and any other leader in natural history. You’re going to have to pay like it or not. Obama has made this country a third world country and has taken country of industry telling people who they can do and cannot do.
Your going to have to pay for your neighbor’s mortgage even though he took a loan he knew he couldn’t afford. You’re going to support car companies that cannot sell but your only supporting them to support the unions for people getting paid 30 to 50 plus an hour to put windshield wipers on car.
You will pay for dying cities because they choose to give homes to the poor and bad loans to the poor. You will pay for cities choice to spend, spend, spend and tax businesses over seas.
Get used to it.
We in Chicago are that’s why it’s becoming a ghost town. To pay for a free hospital in Cook County, and to support the black community and to illegally tear down airports in the darkness of night (See Meigsfield) to make parks for the community making us lose tons of revenue and to where like Detroit we have miles of vacant and abandoned buildings Chicago and Cook County is the most taxed area in the U.S and you all elected Chicago good job!
Oh, but at least Cook County citizens are doing something about it. Read about the Cook County Secession that was recently voted for and the South and West Sides of Chicago suburbs will vote for.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
"Obama has made this country a third world country"
Good to see that you're supporting the economy by manufacturing massive amounts of grade A bullshit.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
I believe that the past 4 or so Presidents are making this country into a 3rd world one, it's just that it's exponential. The Democrats had a horrible president in the 90's (Clinton), and so the Republicans knew that they had to come back with an even worse President, which they did. After 8 years of that, the Democrats had to pull something REALLY horrid out of their asses to top what the GOP had. So they found Obama, a racist and economically-challenged fellow. Who would've thought that anyone could've found a worse President than Bush and Clinton...but those Democrats found one...
Can I get some change?
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Vote Lewis in 2012. That's right; we'll go libertarian on their asses.
Hell, we can even make that the campaign slogan.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Hyperbole, yes. Bullshit?
Spending 5.9% of the US's GDP with no way to fund/repay it just might push a great majority of the middle class into poverty. If your middle class becomes impoverished, what do the poor become? 3rd World.
The way out of debt isnt to take out more loans.
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Actually it is BS, the us can't become a 3rd world country.
People need to stop misuing the term, its actually a reference to the cold war era, the first world being the western nations, the second being the russians and their allies and the thrid being everyone else. It doesnt technically denote any level of economic development.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
This man reminds me of how Romans felt when the Goths are sacking Rome.
Some people are so blind they can’t see a world to where they live in the poor house where someone is telling them what to believe and what not to believe. Difference is now, you have a choice but if the U.S goes or we elected someone who takes total power away from the Republic or if we just fall which it’s looking like every day since we officially owe China and depend on China now since they hold all our money just imagine a new Dark Age.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Wow. That is fucking awesome. Good for those people. I'd be pissed off if I sent 18 million to the county and only got 4 million's worth back too. I hope they do secede.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
So, in addition to raising income taxes, capital gains taxes, business taxes, etc the Fed wants to tack a sales tax onto everything else. Way to go "stimulating" the economy- reducing the purchasing power for people of all income levels is absurd. Oh, and I pay for all of my health insurance, and it sure as shit doesn't cost me nearly as much as these new taxes would frisk me for (and surely not 40-60% of my income). Of course, since this country will be a planned economy in about a decade or so, it makes little difference...
Never trust a politician with anything- especially money.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
My thoughts exactly. Why would I want to pay more in added taxes than I currently pay for my health care? 10-25% sales tax would cause mass riots in the street.
This reminds me of Social Security Taxes. That was supposed to go into a little savings area to hold for when people retired. Then the government needed some extra money and started syphoning funds from it and now it is a huge mess that we cannot get out of. Sounds like what would happen if we get a VAT.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
wow, just wow.... as if we didnt have enough taxes. Next thing you know they'll start taxing your tax returns.....
ack! i just read the range they were considering, 10-25%?!? *heart attack*
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Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
While VAT rates vary quite a bit around the EU, I'll use the Netherlands as an example, since that's the one I'm most familiar with.
The VAT on pretty much everything is 19%.
A 6% VAT is applied on food and drink (except alcohol), medication, books, sports activities, cultural events and restoration work to houses older than 15 years.
That 19% may seem high, but has been in place for a long time and the money earned from it is used for many government projects, including healthcare, public schools, etc.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
I think the problem here is we already have taxes in place that cover those things, well other than public healcare but other stuff ya :P. They're reasoning this to support public healthcare and like someone else pointed out already, Social Security is a great example of why we don't trust the politicians with broad taxes like that. They end up just funneling that money for their own purposes (Golden Fleece anyone?) and the original reason for the tax ends up broken and full of holes.
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Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Oh, many social security features are already supplied by other taxes here too, you seem to forget that the taxation levels in the EU are generally a good deal higher than in the US.
(atleast on a national level, no idea how state taxation works, local taxes are farely minimal here)
But most of the EU has a much broader social security system to maintain aswell as an excellent public education system. Fleecing such as you mention for the US is considerably more rare here I believe, since all the financial data is open to the public. Scrutiny is probably considerably tighter.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
whwre I live city/state sales tax is already 10% Azhrarn and we're getting SHIT for it. Not to mentions property tax,fuel tax,taxes on services like water,power,phone,sewer,garbage collection etc etc ad nauseum.
Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
I see, well that changes matters, if the state can already create a sales tax, then a national one would just conflict with it, which is certainly not a desired effect.
US states and cities are much more free to do as they please in terms of taxation it seems, while most of that is controlled on a national level over here.
I can see how an additional tax would really mess things up. (because I doubt a state or city would drop their sales tax if a national one was introduced unless they were forced to do so)
"Service charges" for the services you describe exist here too, and especially on fuel they're a good deal higher. (converting from euros to dollar, we're at about $7,70 per gallon here. Most of it tax.)
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
I've heard of some state/county taxes that work nicely. In Florida there is a state sales tax, but some counties have a sales tax also that just adds the percentage prior to the sale. So if the state tax is 6% and the county tax is 1%, it'd just be 7% sales tax.
Same could be done with national level taxes. Add a 8% sales tax to that, and any purchases in this county in Florida would be 6+1+8 = 15% sales tax total. In other words, tax on the original sales price, not on the other taxes.
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
Were the taxes actually going to fund a national healthcare, I'd say fine. In reality,
"Bullsh**!" This would go right back into Congress's VAT-ass pockets. Don't even try it.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
That is my basic take. If a new tax is used for something that has a wide ranging federal benfit then I am for it... if it is just being funneled back out into earmarks for various districts then I'm against it.
Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...
If VAT Tax is is started, we riot...