Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on Amazon

May 29, 2009 -

Is this the next RapeLay controversy?

Although interactive DVDs aren't traditionally thought of as video games, they would appear to fall into something of a gray area between movies and games.

That may be an academic argument, but, in lodging a new protest against online retailer Amazon.com, woman-centric website Feministing treats Stockholm: An Exploration of True Love as a video game:

it looks like another game involving violence against women seems to have"slipped" past [Amazon's] radar. "Stockholm: An Exploration of True Love" is a game that allows the user to experience,

    "...a terrifyingly vivid exploration of Stockholm Syndrome, a psychological condition in which a captive falls in love with her kidnapper. And you play the part of the kidnapper. With a limited number of options, you must figure out how to make her fall in love with you."

This includes using poison gas on the victim, sexually assaulting her and using psychological abuse against her in efforts to make her "love" you. Unbelievable.

While RapeLay was offered by a third-party reseller on Amazon, Stockholm appears to shipping direct from the online retailer's inventory.


Comments

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

The main angle I can see criticism of Fat Princess coming from is fatphobia - it seems like it's essentially using a harmful stereotype of fat people as helpless to sell their game. I can see how that would upset some people, and I'm not sure how the game being constructed differently to avoid that would harm anyone.

IIRC, there was also some feminist criticism about force-feeding at the time. There was discussion going on about torture in the media and one of the stupider things I remember being said by a public figure was something about being "force-fed chocolate cake." I think someone criticised it from that angle, that force-feeding someone anything is pretty repulsive and horrible (and it is - read about it) and that the game is portraying it as something silly and fun instead.

Anyway, tangent aside, it's possible to make really cool and fun games without actively alienating or perpetuating harmful stereotypes, and that's where the criticism of Fat Princess was probably coming from.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I think it was meant to be a jab at the helpless princess stereotype.

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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

This is correct.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

This.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

 Yes, exactly. Don't like their critique? Don't read it.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

The argument they're standing by, I'm sure, is that exposure to the game normalizes the depicted behavior and increases the likelihood of a user/viewer imitating such behavior.

Which, of course, is a different invalid argument.  But I'm sure the stance they're taking is not the one refuted by "don't like it?  don't buy it", but by "there is NO actual evidence that exposure to this material increases the likelihood of actual rape/abuse".

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

It's more an issue of normalization, I think. I don't believe anyone, outside of nutbars, believe that someone who plays a violent or sexually violent video game will be turned into a sociopath or what have you. But the normalization effect is something that's tangible, measurable, and confirmable.

A person is sort of a reaction to a mass of influences, and their opinions are informed by those influences. There are ways to make an idea more influential, through all sorts of psychological tricks and forces--Sort of like salesman do. Normalization and stereotyping are a few of those ways, and this has been confirmed--expose a person to some racist, sexist, homophobic material, even on a small scale, and over time, they'll start to think less of the group targeted. Showing them with similar traits will build up ideas in people's minds that are quite sticky and entrenched. Think of the opinion center as a sort of pliable membrane, and repeated, low-level prodding will build up a resistance.

A culture as a whole also has this membrane. That's where we get our cultural values from. And the values change over time in reaction from certain pressures on that membrane, and all of those pressures stem from ideas. A few people thought poorly of women, designed a system that reinforced and reflected that belief, and after a while of everyone living in that system, that idea gets spread around to everyone. Everyone's opinions are, in many ways, reflections based off of the culture they live in. This is not to say that everyone in a specific culture has the same opinions--indeed, people have quite different outlooks on certain things, because of the way they specifically were brought to frame those ideas. But the cultural construct of, say, gender, is there.

Normalization is a repeated buffetting on the cultural membrane to build up a resistance to it. Low-level communications that forced sex, or unconsensual sex, or date rape, or that men deserve sex even if the woman doesn't want to, that stuff adds up. Look at films and books and comics in the 40's to the...gosh, right to the 80's. The bad guys were communists, or veiled representations of communists. Now, in the 21st century, we think of communism as just a political philosophy, but it was a MORAL thing back then. People were scared of that philosophy--not just the bomb, but the idea that one day the US would wake up and be a communist state. Anyways, as that stereotype in media went away, so did the fear.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Well put.

Although, I do feel that the methods of this particulr feminist group are counter productive.  Raising attention to these type of products through protest has, in the past, generally increased their sales by raising awareness of the game.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

According to their actual post, their argument seems to be is, "profiting off of sexual and psychological abuse is completely unacceptable."

 

 

 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Well, in that case the counter is "why is profiting off of murder and terrorism (two EXTREMELY popular subjects in movies, books, and television) totally acceptable?"

For that matter, where do they draw the line?  What kind of conflict is okay to profit off of?

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

If you were in a debate competition with this response out on the table, I think you'd have stunned the opposing view into silence.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

the opposing view would probably counter with saying that those things are ALSO bad, and then accuse you of making strawman arguments

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

And what about the children?  For heaven's sake!  Don't forget about the children!

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I don't think anything more needs to be said but unfortunately they'll never learn.

They think they're helping to stand for decency by calling attention to some real indecent stuff that they can find.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
 
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TechnogeekIf the developer were male there wouldn't have been a "conversation" in the first place.10/19/2014 - 2:27am
Montetrolls are just at their absolute worst when it comes to women and feminist. You could bet good money that if the developer were male the trolls would be silent and the conversation would actually focus on the journalism.10/18/2014 - 9:18pm
MontePapa: Not the first time we've had a journalism scandals before, but the harassment never got close to this level; the difference with this scandal is that feminists are involved. Without the feminist angle, their would be A LOT less harrassment10/18/2014 - 9:15pm
Papa MidnightMonte: That's honestly rather short-sighted. As has been proven with other persons who have been targeted, if it wasn't Quinn, it would be someone else.10/18/2014 - 6:26pm
AvalongodI think that's part of what gives an esoteric news story like this real life...it taps into a larger narrative about misogyny in society outside of games.10/18/2014 - 3:29pm
Avalongod@Monte, well the trolls made death threats that came to police (and media attention). I think this is tapping into a larger issue outside of games about how women are treated in society (like all the "real rape" stuff during the last election)10/18/2014 - 3:28pm
WonderkarpZippy : Havent tried the PS4 controller. might later.10/18/2014 - 2:37pm
MonteSeirously, If Quinn was not involved and GG was instead about something like the Mordor Marketing contracts, the trolling would have never grown so vile and disgusting. There have been plenty of movements in the past that never sufferred from behavior..10/18/2014 - 1:57pm
MonteWe have seen scandel's before but the trolling has never been as vile as what we see with GG. Trolls usually have such a tiny voice you can barely notice them, but its like moths to a flame whenever femistist are involved.10/18/2014 - 1:53pm
ZippyDSMleeWonderkarp: You might be able to if you had a PS4 controller.10/18/2014 - 1:00pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://store.steampowered.com/app/327940/ Night Dive starts charging for freeware.10/18/2014 - 12:21pm
Matthew Wilsonthe sad thing is there are trolls on both sides of this. people need to stop acting like their side is so pure.10/18/2014 - 12:19pm
MechaTama31So, only speak out on a scandal that hasn't attracted trolls? I wouldn't hold my breath...10/18/2014 - 10:49am
MonteI feel like GG just needs to die. The movement is FAR to tainted by hatred and BS for it to be useful for any conversation. Let GG die, and then rally behind the NEXT gaming journalism scandal, and start the conversation fresh.10/18/2014 - 10:33am
quiknkoldand we dont have a Dovakin to call a cease fire10/17/2014 - 7:37pm
quiknkoldThe whole thing is Futile. Both sides are so buried deep in their trenchs that there isnt a conversation. Its just Finger Pointing, Name Calling, Doxxing, Threats. there needs to be a serious conversation, and GG isnt it.10/17/2014 - 7:37pm
quiknkoldI thought it was a good article. Jeff is right. I feel like GamerGate did destroy its message. I am for Ethics in game journalism, but man. so much hate. and its on both sides. I've seen some awful stuff spewed on twitter. Its a big reason why I exited..10/17/2014 - 7:34pm
Matthew Wilsonwhile he focused on gg, he did call out both sides crap.10/17/2014 - 7:18pm
Papa MidnightThat was a damn good read offered by Jeff Gertsmann.10/17/2014 - 7:17pm
Matthew Wilsonhttp://www.giantbomb.com/articles/letter-from-the-editor-10-17-2014/1100-5049/ deferentially a nice write up.10/17/2014 - 6:44pm
 

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