While American kids love to play video games, the former head of the United States Air Force Cyber Command frets that a lack of interest in learning to write the code underlying those games is a threat to national security.
In a report for The Daily Beast author Douglas Rushkoff writes:
[General Elder] has no problem attracting recruits ready to operate robots or fly drones... Hell, they love playing videogames already. His problem is finding high-school graduates with any experience or interest in actually programming all this stuff. Unless something changes radically, Elder told me, the United States will be surpassed in cyberskills within a single generation. The best of our kids design videogames; the Indians, Chinese, and Russians' kids write the code on which those games run.
How could this be? It's because in America we don't value programming. We think of it like bricklaying, farming, or any other seemingly menial skill. We ship our networking jobs to India, China, and other formerly Third World nations...
Rushkoff indirectly points the finger of blame at America's IP enforcement, which discourages tinkering - and thus learning about - digital technology:
In a computing marketplace where altering one's iPhone will "brick" its functionality and where user improvement to programs is treated as an intellectual-property violation, it's no wonder we have adopted the attitude that our technology is finished and inviolable from the minute it has been purchased. Just clicking on "agree" during installation says as much.
Via: GameCulture
Comments
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I'd say a bigger part of this national security is that most people from age 25 down whether skilled or not have little or no patriotism in them. It's like one of the posters said, he doesn't care if he works for America, Japan, or India. Wherever the money is best is where his loyalty will lie.
Frankly, due to a more globally-minded economy, and a more international mindset of people in general, national security for any nation is headed on out. And that is what I think the General is really seeing.
Do we have talented young techs out there? Of course! But they can care less about the invisible lines and wire mesh that create countries.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Perchance all the kids who are into programming just *gasp* don't care to join the military?
I went to a small college (1500 or so students) but pretty much all anybody did there was game or movie related. Programming, art, design, special effects, etc.
I would say that yes some kids had been in the military, but there was a SERIOUS anti-military atmosphere there. Not in the vein of "military is bad" or anything, just in the vein of "I don't want to be in the military". Geeks and nerds, who would have thought we DON'T like getting ourselves into violent traumatic situations like war?
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
How could this be? It's because in America we don't value programming. We think of it like bricklaying, farming, or any other seemingly menial skill.
That's pretty interesting because in the web development field, Americans take pride in their website work more than Russians and Indians. Over in those countries, THEY are the ones that treat writing code like any other blue collar skill. Their coding boils down to drill-and-kill techniques that have gotten long in the tooth, with little regards to researching new technology or happenings in web development. Americans (and Western Europeans) still have them beat in design patterns and adapting new programming technology.
An understanding of some high level work is needed to be good at your low-level work. Project managers in Western countries deal with communication disjoints in these aspects when talking to the people they manage halfway across the world. Hands-on cooperative work will always be better than phone conversations or screen-casting. Unfortunately it's harder to come across companies that have a full in-house development team locally onboard. Unless you're one of the large companies.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Overblown hogwash. As a Programmer (primarily interested due to video games)who took highschool classes, majored in Software Engineering in College and is currently employed in a programming job, I call B.S.
He's attacking the wrong aspects. The problem are the students, the system doesn't help I'll definately give him that, but it comes down to the problem of trying to recruit programmers out of highschool. You could also complain we have a shortage of plumbers out of highschool. Yet we all love to use plumbing.
Seriously, how many kids who decide they want to get into programming anything, and actually do it, include joining the military in their plans?
I didn't, and I've met none in my paltry career, so I'm gonna go ahead and agree with the General that there is probably a shortage.
Screw hoping they come to you, seek out the ones that are out there and entice them to join you. Make it worth it to them, I've met plenty of crushed game programming hopes who are now writing boring buisness software wishing for something more.
Another example of someone not understanding something and attempting to blame random broken aspects of our society. And all the haters nodding their heads in unison.
Oh yea, that whole IP thing stopping game programmers? Ever here of the free engines out there, or the ability to make free modifications to a large portion of the most popular PC games? Someone brought up legal/social ramifications of CS:S map. Fine you were worried about your school causing issues, that's fine, unfair but understandable. So why didn't you do something else? Maybe one of your houses? That's not the IP's fault.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I hate to disagree with you, because you obviously put a lot of thought into your argument, but you are oversimplifying things AND distracting people from the specifics of the point the general was making.
Did you actually read the original article? When should we start trying to recruit programmers to develop secure algorithms to defend against hackers in other countries? According to your argument it seems like the best time would be when they are writing boring web screens or business apps for some nondescript company out there.
This goes precisely against the general's point and,in my IMHO, he is right. We don't want just some guy writing this stuff... We want someone who WANTS this job, who likes this job. We should rather want someone going to them, or at least they find each other, because otherwise we end up with a hired gun who will sell us out to the next guy he works for and our security is up for sale.
Unfortunately, we are most likely at a time when that is the most likely case anyway.
Christopher White cwhite@profoundgames.com
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
All of you who don't think that this is a problem are really who this guy is talking to. Everything is connected. I was a believer in IP laws for a long time and I never thought of this. I realized a few years ago that I never would have been able to learn to program if it weren't for open platforms.
I never went to college. I learned from books because I loved playing game, was interested in computers and wanted to make something like what I was playing. These days, with IP laws and closed platforms, it's harder to do that on consoles (XBox and Wii excepted, see Wiiware and XNA) but way easier to do it on PC's and Mac's.
The real problem is in the schools. I took 3 programming classes in grade school and 5 in high school. I went back to my high school several years ago and there weren't any classes on programming available anymore. They now leave that up to the grade schools. Even if the grade schools do teach kids how to program, how are they supposed to go 4 YEARS with no reinforcement classes?
If we don't foster curiosity in our children, allow them to take the computer apart and put it back together or whatever to try to make it run better, we are going to be the first generation of old people that know more about how technology works than the kids ;)
Christopher White cwhite@profoundgames.com
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
How I like to interpret his quote: Our copyright laws are a threat to national security.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
He is right.
Christopher White cwhite@profoundgames.com
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Explosive diarrhea is a threat to national security
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
You know what else is a security hazard? Discharging translators and other troops just because they are gay.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Hey, finally, someone in the military recognizes it. Now what are you going to do about it?
It used to be, up until about five years ago, that modding games of all types was encouraged. I'm not talking about firing up 3ds max and making models (which is difficult), I'm talking about hardcore engine modifications.
However, with the meteoric popularity of MMORPGs, and the prosecution of any U.S. or EU citizen that looks under the hood or makes changes, it's only a matter of years before the majority of games are imports. Already the 'free' MMORPG market growing from China and other asian countries are bleeding gamers from the U.S.'s tied down high cost low innovation MMOs.
Coupled with consoles practically obliterating the homebrew hacker community by using the DMCA to ban modchips, and you have a generation of drooling idiots unable to distinguish from Halo's copy-paste level design and uniquely designed FPSes, such as Crysis.
I personally look at games like far cry 2 with an amount of contempt. They have no AI programming, their difficulty is based off of damage scaling and how close to you they drop ridiculously stupid bots, et cetera. If you watch your rear view mirror and blaze through a camp with the pedal to the metal in a jeep, jeeps with guys will VISIBLY SPAWN moving faster than you, and FC2 is considered 'ground breaking'. American games are quite bluntly starting to suck in a major, negative way.
Unless this 'intellectual property protection' BS is loosened up, we'll see major brain drain of the U.S. geeks that are left and growing into countries that don't threaten to charge them with a felony for exploring their tech.
I, for one, will get the highest CS or CE degree(s) I can achieve, and work for whoever pays me the best. I don't give a damn if I end up working in Japan, Russia, India, the UAE, whichever, if they shaft me less than the U.S. does.
Free trade is what keeps us better than China, and what allowed us to get ahead technologically. The IP protection we have now allows for the absolute restriction of free trade, and the per/pro-secution of those that dare strive to learn.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I like your opening sentence. Now that the issue is more or less out there, what can we as a nation do to further the introduction of programming in our schools?
"HEY! LISTEN!"
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
i think you almost got off-topic there, but I agree.
I'm happy they have a shortage of programmers, it means I'll have a job when I graduate!
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
The next thing you know they'll call a fly landing on obama's head a security threat.
http://www.magicinkgaming.com/
http://www.killatia.com/
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I've been saying for a while kids should be taught to count in base 2 at the same time as decimal. They can handle it.
I must have been 6 when my dad was teaching me binary and command line BASIC.
------ Ago. Perceptum. Teneo.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I remember in High School that a bunch of guys and myself intended to do some major tinkering with teh Source Engine. Our first project was going to be to model the school we all went to. Here's the list of concerns we ran into.
1) What is the legality of using students likenesses in a bit of work like this?
2) What would stop anyone from spawning weapons, and going on a rampage inside the "school" map and system we put together?
3) What would happen if it were ported to Counter-Strike: Source or any other combat-based game involving weapons?
These were all brought up when we were in our junior year. We had just gotten a report about some kid getting expelled from his school, all his scholarships lost, and his 4.0GPA in effect trashed because he made a CS:S: map of what he was familiar with. We all in the end decided it wasn't worth the risk of ruining our educational goals for a project like what we wanted to do, and scrapped it.
Congratulations. Generic school-based paranoia caused a group of seven or so people that were interested in programming to take a step away from it relatively permanantly.
Does US IP law prevent expansion in the coding field? Oh, you bet your ass it does. With the USDMCA, any company can snipe you after five years of work for virtually anything if you use any of their assets. Couple that with general paranoia regarding public places like schools, libraries, churches, hell even on surface streets it's hard to get away with.
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Just keep on psuhing a absolute IP rule with no gray aera our society will collapse because gov/corp can tell you everything to do and we forgot how to have fun...
I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Take it from me, I'd classify this under the topic of, yeah, this is gonna be a problem.
Just looking around at our "Cyber" units, it's like you walked into a retirement home, (not that bad) there isn't anyone young there, just old, and probably about to retire.
That and I agree that our IP laws are causing some harm.
-------------
-Idiots, the lot of them - SSGT -Yeah, but they're our idiots - ME On the topic of congress
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Its not that they lose interest its that they never experienced it. Schools take away programs like computers/programming out cause they need to make sure the students can pass a stupid test, cause if they don't they don't receive as much money next year. I learned programming in High School and it actually made me want to continue learning. I learned later that my school dropped the computer classes due to money. I shudder to think what type of computers they even have in their lab and I hope its still not the 386s they had when I went there. (Note the 386s where top of the line when I went there)
--- Jay Clark President of the Washington D.C. Area ECA Chapter http://dc.ecachapter.com
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Hell, if they want to hire me as a civilian contractor, I'll do it in a second, but no way in hell I'm signing up for the military. And I'm not too far past their "best if signed up by" date I don't think.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
You hear that, Securom? You're helping the terrorists win.
"That's not ironic. That's justice."
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
You can have an interest in programming and not break any laws. I write, and have written, millions of lines of code out of personal interest and never broke a single law.
If they need programmers, then they should add that to their recruitment material. "We will give you a computer science degree if you join the Air Force!" Good skill to have, especially if someone else pays for it.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Problem is that by the time you're at the end of high school and looking for a college/branch to join, you don't even want to deal with computers and computer programming anymore. I used to want to be a developer/programmer in elementary and middle school, but I never got any introductions to it in school.
My interest fell after I started high school and got my first look at it (not through the school, either, I looked at it myself). I was thouroughly intimidated by how complicated it was. Like another user said, programming and the like should be taught early and taught like a second language (I mean, hell, it's easier to learn than english and easier to use because of its preciseness) in order to foster interest in it. But first we have to drop these stupid IP-laws and the DMCA.
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Perfect point. Introductions to computer programming should begin VERY early. I started learning in 6th grade. There can be a lot of math involved so if a student doesn't focus on math in their studies or if they don't enjoy math then they can think that they will hate programming if they are exposed to it later. One thing I have experienced (at least with my kids) is that if they don't like math they will not like programming, and that no amount of discussion will convince them they are not the same.
Christopher White cwhite@profoundgames.com
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Agreed. My own elementary/middle school only went over typing speed and the use of Microsoft Word/Excel/Powerpoint. We never even TOUCHED HTML, much less any other rudimentary language.
"HEY! LISTEN!"
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Heh you were lucky. My high school was using still using apple IIe's until the year before I graduated,('93) so I entered the workforce never hearing of Word/Excell/Powerpoint.
Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Agreed. My own elementary/middle school only went over typing speed and the use of Microsoft Word/Excell/Powerpoint. We never even TOUCHED HTML, much less any other rudimentary language.
"HEY! LISTEN!"
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I heartily agree. I know Java, C++, HTML, and JavaScript, but I don't feel like taking the time to recode even the most basic programs these days. I also agree with the statement that copyright violation plays a big role in our reluctance to alter code.
"HEY! LISTEN!"
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
In other news most people drive cars but aren't interested in doing automobile engineering from their garage.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Which is why GM and Ford and Chrysler are almost out of business...
Christopher White cwhite@profoundgames.com
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I remember the days of "logo" and other "programming games" from back in elementary school. I would have loved to keep tinkering with that stuff as a child, but schools put more emphasis on stupid things like reading and writing... What a load...
In all seriousness though, we were only given forty five minutes every day in the "computer lab" in elemetary school (or was that forty five minutes a week?) With more time with programming as a child like a "second language" we could easily have a generation of kids who can program almost as second nature. If that was the case, the logical expectation would be a larger amount of kids who are exceptional at it and would wish to persue it later in life.
Too bad public schools are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator in the US. Mediocrity is the way of the future it woud seem.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Honestly America's public school system has become little more than a propaganda and indoctrination system.
If you want your children to get a real education, be prepared with the time and money to home school them.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Some combination might be a good alternative... Public schools can indoctrinate and socialize our kids for a few years, then we home school them to teach them some truthiness until they don't listen to us anymore, then we send them to a private school ;)
Christopher White cwhite@profoundgames.com
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Why not send them to private schools instead of home schooling them. Personally, I don't like the idea of home schooling for a wide variety of reasons.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
There are problems with home schooling, yes, but there are problems with private schools as well. Not the least of which, as another poster pointed out, is often the cost.
I find home schooling to be the better alternative, particularly for parents who are patient and intelligent enough to provide a solid education for their children.
Your opinion, of course, is just as valid - though I respectfully disagree.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Good luck finding a good one that you can afford, heh. I'm still iffy about private schools...they're a little too "private" and fancy for my liking. Then again, I just might when I'm a parent, simply because of my dislike for the American public school system...
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
This is pure fearmongering plain and simple. If Rushkoff thinks there's isn't an interest in game programming from kids then he clearly shouldn't hold any position at a school since he obviously lacks even the most rudimentary research skills.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I'm not so sure. There is certainly a lot of interest in games. If you actually make a game though everyone think's your a genius. I think that most kids are intimidated by the task.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Maybe it's just the "kids" I'm around, but most of the ones who moved with me from highschool to college lost all interest in games when they found out that "game programming" wasn't just playing games, and that programing isn't exactly an easy thing.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Well there you have it. DMCA and the current draconian IP laws are a threat to national security.
Any chance we can get EA put on the list of terrorist organizations?
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Tinkering with tech put to US in the lead for computing for the begining of the digital era. Jobs and Gates started by building stuff in their garage.
There is no equivalent of the garage tinkering for programming, because of IP law being what it is. The US will lose our tech edge without an up-and-coming programmer base.
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I'm an unemployable game developer so I'm really getting a kick outta these replies.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Unemployable? Meaning either you want to get paid more that someone wants to pay you? Or there is no programming jobs out there? I'm betting the former.
And I suspect that you already know this: Game Developer=|=Programmer.
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Way to totally make a massive leap in logic there, Jeffy. Who knows why he's unemployable? Maybe he doesn't have the experience that most game developers are looking for at the moment? Perhaps the job market isn't quite good enough? Who are you to say its because he wants too much money?
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Also, DMCA sucks.
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned his surprisingly forward-thinking view on IP enforcement yet. :p
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
This sounds like fear mongering to me. I've never met anyone with a genuine interest in programming who let IP get in the way of decompiling things to see how they worked. If it came down to it they would just change to a piece of software they could adapt or a game they actually were allowed or encouraged to customize.
-P
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I agree- however, how many school kids aren't being exposed to programming through school, because the school are letting IP get in the way, and thus aren't able to introduce them to the idea?
Epic or Crytek need to make an E-rated game in their respective engines that they can make available to schools. Something to put the seed of tinkering with software into kids' minds.
/b
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
I'm torn between liking this guy for bashing draconian IP laws, and hating him for using the words national security on something as far off as video game programming. If the number of kids who aren't interested in programming aren't picking up, is it really a national security issue, or an economic issue?
I can understand how oil prices or removing your shoes in a domestic airport for an x-ray is a concern for national security, but lack of interest in the world of video game programming? There has got to be a book somewhere that says "National security can only be used for the following topics:"!
Now I'm no expert on this topic, but does modding count as an incredibly basic form of tinkering with the game's engine?
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
Grifter_tim, I'm there with you. I'm not a big fan of IP laws, as they usually slow progress and create monopolys. But national security is a stretch to say the least.
I don't think IP is where all the blame should go. Maybe he means there is a lack of open access to programming knowledge, not enough programming classes for students in middle/high school or maybe the fact that we are shipping so many jobs overseas is a problem as it takes away from programming jobs here(though my unemployed programming buddies aren't in the game industry field). Point is there are other things to blame rather than IP. Besides, sometimes learning how to program your own simple games is the best first step anyway.
Re: U.S. Kids' Lack of Interest in Game Programming is a ...
"National Security" only recently has meant "OMG TERRORISTS!"- its more 'proper' usage is about how secure the US is as a nation, how long The USA can remain a legitimate country without collapsing- large chunks of it declaring itself independent, everyone emigrating, the public revolting against the government, that sort of thing.
Part of keeping a nation secure is maintaining an economy, and the best way to do that is with the foundations of commerce- construction, manufacturing, and if the guy in the story is to be believed, software development. (Games, obviously, only being an example of popular software)
And yes, modding does count. Especially in something like Unreal which has many ways of modifiying the core game.
/b