Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total Ban on Violent Games

June 5, 2009 -

It appears that Germany's 16 Interior Ministers have banded together to ask the Bundestag (Germany's equivalent of Parliament) to ban the production and distribution of violent video games. Moreover, the ministers hope to see this accomplished before Germany's new elections take place on September 27th.

Although we're hampered a bit the language barrier, GamePolitics has received this information today from three German readers. Their accounts appear to coincide with this Google translation of a Spiegel Online report.

The move comes during a scheduled conference of interior ministers. School shootings, in particular the March 11th rampage committed by a 17-year-old in Winnenden, were prominently mentioned in relation to the group's demand for a ban on violent games.

If passed, such a move would affect not only German game consumers, but German game developers such as Crytek (Far Cry, Crysis). Under the proposed law, Crytek would apparently need to outsource development of violent games or even relocate its operations to another country.


Comments

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Couldn't this just be fought through the EU? If I'm not mistaken, the EU has forced my country to accept products that people here wish to ban but that are legal in the EU. It's part of the free trade deal.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

maybe they are gauranteed through the EU and the fuss is really just campaign rhetoric.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Gamers in Germany are bored of this endless discussion. We got censored games for adults, games like Gears of War were never official released here.

You think Thompson is a fool? We got Prof. Pfeiffer, Mr. Herrmann, Mr. Schünemann and Ms. Ursula (called Zensursula) von der Leyen. Mr. Herrmann compared violent games whith child pornography and blamed thousands of gamers.

Our democracy is based on fear and lies. It's not interesting for politicians what people want, it's only interesting for them to keep their status, no matter how.

Yesterday I vote the PIRATEPARTY. I hope in September they will move in the Bundestag (but I also think this will never happen).

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

There are no shortage of scapegoats these days. The price of freedom...someone gets to point a finger at you for taking advantage of those freedoms.

There is definitely a problem with the psychology of the more conservative elements in the world. It goes both ways surely. If we are going to ban violent videogames, I guess this would be a good time to start censoring history books. During slavery, blacks works tirelessly and were greeted by their white masters. The Civil War was civil. World War 2 was the only time we all worked together and Jeffery Domer was a good cook. 

 

 

 

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

I have another comment. Take a look at this wikipedia page:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

 

Now look at this pyschopath. He may have decided to brutually murder his wife, mother and 14 other people because of the dysfunction he suffered as a child, his troubled personal life as an adult, or hell, maybe even the big ol' tumor that was growing in his brain. There were no video games that had any degree of accuracy back then, no "murder simulators". He certainly did play any.

 

What is it going to take for people to realize that a media does not cause otherwise rational people to commit violent crime?

 

Here is a reverse example. I play Fallout 3. My character is one who was unprepared to be thrust out into the wastes at 19, without a father, without a home, and in the kill or be killed environment he decided he'd rather be the one to do the killing. He is an evil character (though after finding his dad he is going to turn good again) and has killed many innocent people. Now, while I've done such horrible things in a game the thought of actually doing such things makes me feel physicall ill.

 

Don't make decisions based off of FEAR people.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Sorry to break this to you, but you only proved two things:

-There's violence, that isn't caused by video games.
-There are people, that don't become violent because of video games.

And that isn't very much. In fact, you just proved what is probably the only part of the video game controversy that noone disputes, because it's so blatantly obvious.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Astounding Ambivalence, Batman!

The German government is super paranoid about devolving back to the violence that resulted from fascism, but is simultaneously completely oblivious to the fact that the fascism was born out of ignorance and prostration; which they still use and demand from their subjects, to this day.

Long live irony!

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

If only we ban the video games, than people will stop killling other people! If only we had thought of this centuries ago in human development, we could have avoided SOOO much killing.

 

Wait, what? What are you talking about, "We've had murder, war, killings, psychopaths, etc. before we had even harnessed the power of the electron"? Surely you are mistaken. Surely the video games caused it all.

 

Whenever I think that I've seen just how stupid people can be, they go and do something even stupider.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

What? Germany is susceptible to fascism? There can't be any symbolism or event that happened in the past foreshadowing that this could possibly happen!

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

If we ban violent video games (or rape games, lol), then we should ban the Bible and Koran too.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Germany has youth violence problems.. yes. There is a reason for it and it's not from voilent media. It's from a recent voilent history they had.

When you have a million adults with children being killed during a war just over 60 years ago, those children do not have a stable household after the war is over. They are not taught how to cope and live. Those children have children, and those children have children. Many of them are not taught how to be an adult. They are not taught life skills by their drunken parents. It's a terrible cycle that will not get fixed by videogame ban's.

Unfortunetly for Germany, a ban on violent games will probably make the violence worse as there is one less outlet for the primal man to vent.

Good job not understanding your history and it's impact on it's families Germany... Good job.

 

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

There is some very fascinating reasoning behind your post. But, unfortunately, it's also very wrong.

> Germany has youth violence problems.. yes. There is a reason for it and it's not from

> voilent media. It's from a recent voilent history they had."

Back in the late 1960s, when many of our young people rebelled against the former Nazis in politics, administration and government, you *may* have had a point with your argument in some of the sociological aspects. Since the older generation kept the lid on the truth (basically, them being either Nazis or to a certain extent participating in/ignoring the crimes of the Nazis) there was a strong response (including violence) from some young people. But there is also a far more stronger *political* aspect to that whole story!

Fact is, the truth was (and still is) highly unpopular (especially to the German right). Thus, it was far easier for those (older) people to call anyone who wanted to talk about it as "communist", "hippie" or "long-haired slob". The  so called "revolution" of the "(19)68 generation" was systematically counteracted from the beginning and now even they themselves call their idealism a "mistake". What happened after 1968 was a liberalisation of society (although in many aspects only on the surface), whereas the social problems of our society remained.

The one and most important aspect of our society that really had changed was the German attitude towards war. No longer glorified by our culture, war had become a bitter pill to swallow for everyone. Strong antiwar-resentiments within the population had began to grow since Germany was very much the FIRST battlefield in a (very potential) war between East and West.

Although the conservative clientel had no problem with a war against "communism", they very much had a problem with such a war taking place on our soil and killing our people. The rise of peace movements - and finally our Green party - was the response to that mostly because the established parties had failed to address this properly. Even our last social-democratic chancellor Helmut Schmidt was a very strong rearmament-proponent! (Whereas conservative Helmut Kohl, following him, was rather against any German involvement in war and his government actually *helped* the Eastern German government with an enormous bank credit not to go bankrupt.)

But those peace movements and the Green party had not risen because Germany had become "more left"! But rather, because there was actual TALK about these issues in the public.

In the 1980s, our conservatives decided to finish off the last of the "wrong" liberalism of the 1970s and go the way of Ms. Thatcher and Mr. Reagan, calling for a "intellectual and moral reversal" ("geistig-moralische Wende") - what they meant by that was a conservative backlash. Big words at least.

Aping the British "video nasties"-censorship campaign they then started their own "battle" against "violent videos and filth" and raised the level of censorship. Not because Germany actually had *more* youth violence than other countries (rather the contrary), but because this was the ONLY way they could SHOW the public, how much they wanted to change society for the "better". And, especially, since this strategy would not hurt anyone of their own lobby.

Using such propaganda against young people, their interests and behaviour for political gain is as old as human society.

The silly game continued into the 1990s, when some of the more stricter (and idiotic) rules were finally relaxed or even abandoned. Oh, and btw, PORNOGRAPHY had NEVER been an issue! Tolerated in its own "corner" of the market and "adults only", not even the conservatives had a (big) problem with it. Bread and circuses.

But now the "electronic media" became more of an issue. There had been eager censorship and banning against video games in the 80s, but since this market was booming, "something had to be done about it". Well, that's what the new boss of the German censorship board claimed back then. So they changed their name from "BPjS" (the "S" stands for "Writings") to "BPjM" ("M" for "Media").

"Violent games" never really were an issue until very, very recently, since they were ALWAYS submitted to rating and would always end censored or banned - if any complaints were raised and the "BPjM" would agree.

But around 2000 the yellow press began to shift its attention. Since they need a new sensation every week they began to concentrate on every violent crime, every case of child molestation, rampage, killing spree etc.

Very soon everybody was speaking about the dangers of MORE crime, MORE violence and MORE child abuse - although the statistics WERE/ARE saying the exact OPPOSITE! And if you find a scapegoat that works, some politician will try to cash in on that. And that's exactly what's happened/happening over here.

Thanks to 9/11 and the "carte blanche" to call any measure of censorship, surveillance and repression "anti-terror", politics have found the perfect way to BLAME IT ALL ON US.

Every killing spree by a nutcase, who had access to guns and ammo is - clearly - "the fault of free available killer games". Every (potential) picture found on an hard drive proves - "that the internet is promoting child pornography, obviously a million dollar business". And many (especially older) people even believe those stupid lies!

No wonder, our politicians now think that they can ban paintball, ban video games, filter the internet, block webpages and even claim that everyone who argues against their plans is "promoting" terror, copyright infringement and child pornography. Our family minister - a useless aristocrat with 6 children and enough money not to give a damn - actually called those people capable of counteracting their (planned) inefficient web blockades "pedo-criminals". Yep, you're a criminal because you call the emperor naked.

> It's a terrible cycle that will not get fixed by videogame ban's.

That we can agree on.

> Unfortunetly for Germany, a ban on violent games will probably make the violence worse as

> there is one less outlet for the primal man to vent.

No. Fix the social issues and help those who need help, education and a perspective for the future and the violence will go away! Compared to many other countries, Germany has not that much of a problem with youth violence.

> Good job not understanding your history and it's impact on it's families Germany... Good job.

Our conservatives live in their own world (at least, if they give a damn about us at all). History or social issues - the reality - do not interest them. They don't WANT to listen, they don't WANT to reason. They want it THEIR WAY - and no other way.

Tomorrow is an election day for the European parliament. Let's hope that some Germans have understood what is going on and vote accordingly.

ZAR.

 

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

ZAR, that was a great and interesting read.

Here in Canada, the cries for censorship against media have been largely ignored, but some middle-eastern immigrants have been attacking our established traditions and beliefs so we have our own battle to face. Still, it's not that bad.

America hasn't been so lucky, and their story is much the same as Germany's. Cries for non-effective censorship while the music/television/film industries move to kill the internet are becoming a major problem, and usually any problem afflicting America comes to us next, so the Canadians who are aware are doing what they can and spreading the word.

America, Germany, Austrailia, and any other country having trouble with these censorship retards.... DON'T GIVE IN, EVER. Freedom is our right, and unless they can prove with 100% certainty that video games are negatively affecting everyone (good luck ), we have to fight this.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Even though I'm not from where you are, I must say that was quite a piece there.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

As a German Reader which will vote tomorrow i can only say thanks Zar, you told EVERYTHING and there is nothing to add from my side.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

What worries me is apparently all 16 of these guys are dumb enough to "Follow the herd" and go along with the idea of this ban. You'd think at least 1 would actually do some research...

Peer pressure extends past high school, I suppose...

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

*sigh* Just to repeat myself: 2009 is an ELECTION year in this country.

Our political parties are very desperate this time to find topics (and scapegoats to blame). Since they are mostly responsible for most of the social/economical/ecological disasters of recent years, they rather try to blame young people and their interests instead.

This is not a new trick and has been tried again and again BEFORE.

(1950s - Rock'n'Roll music & comics, 1960s - drugs, music and literature, 1980s - "violent videos", music and comics, 2009 - "violent games" etc. etc.)

ZAR.

 

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

LOL. This is the first time I hear that government wants to force us to pirate games by banning us from getting them legally.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Getting games legally is SO year 2000! /jk

 

http://www.vgshuffle.com

Games aren't evil, but evil people play games.

http://www.vgshuffle.com Games aren't evil, but evil people play games.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

It is very doubtful that this will actually become law some day, as it has been discussed and called for a LOT already in recent years. However, IF it should actually pass, there is still the question how it would look like.

There are already different measures that can be taken against violent video games, like give them an USK 18 rating (may no be sold to minors) , set them on the "index" (may not be advertised, sold openly or by mail) or confiscate them ("beschlagnahmen", trade is competely forbidden). The kind of games that are described on SPIEGEL ONLINE ("Spiele, in denen wirklichkeitsnahes Töten wesentlicher Teil der Handlung ist - oder auch "andere grausame Gewalttätigkeiten gegen Menschen oder menschenähnliche Wesen" - roughly: "Games that include realistic killing or other gruesome acts against humans or human-like creatures") can already be targets of all three of these acts. So what is there more to ban???

Also, there is free trade within the EU, so it is quiete easy to import games from the UK or other countries. And since i HATE those gigantic "USK"-labels they put on the games boxes now, i do that already. In the end, nothing would actually change. (Except i would know who NOT to vote for on the next elections.)

Artikel 5 GG: "Eine Zensur findet nicht statt."

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

So what is there more to ban???

If certain politicians had their way, both USK18 and the Index would be removed and the criminal law expanded to include games of either rating as well as certain games (*cough* Counterstrike *cough*) that are currently rated 16+ by the USK. That is there more to ban.

Quiz: What game was banned in Germany in 1984 based on these reasons (quote from the actual report by the commitee in charge of banning stuff):

Teenagers are supposed to take the role of an uncompromising fighter and destroyer.[...] Here a paramilitary training happens during childhood. [...] In older teenagers playing leads to [...] physical tenseness, anger, aggressiveness, fidgetiness of thinking [...] and headaches.

It was River Raid for the Atari 2600, Wikipedia has a screenshot of the gameplay. "Eine Zensur findet nicht statt" my ass.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

I'm often wondering whether those calling for a "ban" even know that the USK/BPjM exists. If it really should come to that i'm hoping that there will be an outcry by gamers, publishers and developers and that the politicians will be suprised by how many of them there are, and how many of them are actually old to enough to vote.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

I fear that won't happen. "There is no censorship." has become "There is no censorship, even if there is." a long time ago, there's a long history of ignoring objections of a tiny minority. There are many gamers, but there are many more non-gamers, and they are gullible.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

If the law happens to pass, would the Bundestag be exclusively in charge of deciding what games pass their "non-violent test"? In other words, would game publishers be required to funnel their work through them for review? 

This looks like it aims to waste money on developers' budgets. Not only do they have to do rigorous testing to meet up to the law's standards, but if the government says the game is too violent, they will have to go back to the drawing board and undo many months' worth of work. Or even if it's a review of the game in prototyping stages- those artists and designers will keep sucking out the developers' budget for every storyboard revision until they "get it right". GP is right- this just calls for developers to outsource their work elsewhere.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

It would be sort of interesting if this thing passes.

 

The public reaction, that is.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Well there goes the neighbourhood. I'm so glad I never heard from dutch law activity against games, it would make me want to wrap up my studies and go live in Canada. I don't want to live in Canada.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

While we may not have heard of any plans in that direction until now, I wouldn't be surprised if our rather sheepish government wouldn't start considering the same thing if Germany does it.

You forget, the "polder model" approach, compromise, compromise and never use your brain.

 

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

The polder-model is actually why I assume any attempt of game legislation will fail. =P

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Why would it fail? There's nobody in the bloody government young enough to actually give a damn about games. No need to compromise on anything in that regard.
They'd ban them in a heartbeat if they thought they'd get a political advantage out of it, and when Germany approves such a ban, that's exactly what I expect to happen.

The trouble is, banning the games in Germany doesn't change a thing, the EU has open borders and no internal border controls, German consumers can just purchase the games online and never have any issues aquiring them, as long as they order them from within the EU. They might have issues getting a German dubbed version of the game, but I doubt many would find that a bad thing.
 

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Hey now...it isn't so bad up here.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

C-C-C-C-COLD!!!

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

 At least germany doesn't clamp down so hard on sexual content on TV, in games, or whatever. But hey .. I hate to see the violent games under fire like that. I am furious about it. And I'm also wearing a shirt that reads "I don't vote game killers" (game killers is a word play on killer games, because "killer games" is all the politician nutheads ever talk about these days... they have no rational word for those games).

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

AS long as they ban violent TV,film and the intrenet...that should the public into a reviolt to toss im out.

 


I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

do be in mind Germany is a socialist state

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Just three questions:

1. Do you also believe that Germany is a country probably somewhere in the Far East?

2. HOW could you acquire such vital information?

And most important: 3. Is there a cure against it?

ZAR.

 

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Depends on what definition of socialism you use - the correct one or the one for American paranoid idiots.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

I'm defining it around the Correct version of the term(21st century ver)

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

"I'm defining it around the Correct version of the term(21st century ver)"

Nope, you're not. Or can you prove it?

Ask any political scientist (or economist, for that matter) and he'll (or she'll) tell you that what you're saying is BS.

You are definitely and with 100% certainty using, I quote, "the [definition] for American paranoid idiots".

 

By the way I'm saying this as a German studying political science and having spent considerable time studying socialism.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Sure, Germany is a socialist state.

 

Like Cuba those evil liberalists.

 

criadordejogos.wordpress.com

--- Maurício Gomes twitter.com/agfgames

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

paraphrasing bash quote #884329:

"Why is it that guns are legal in America but a school shooter will miss most of his targets, whereas guns are illegal in Germany and the fuckers hit everything they aim at?
The American would-be-victims learned how to strafe from the videogames that are banned from Germany."

also this:

岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Everybody knows Germans are non-violent to a fault, and only have ever engaged in violent acts after the advent of video games.  Its not like they tried to conquer Europe twice in one century before Pong was even invented....

Know your history people....sheesh!!

"You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

"You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Well, look at it this way. Lots of games like Grand Theft Auto IV have actions in them that are against the law, such as shooting police officers. These things would be illegal in real life as well, and therefore the game should be banned. You would support banning a game that has other illegal actions such as rape, therefore I can understand you throwing your complete support behind the banning of these games.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

I think it's about time for a revolution and an ousting of the whole nanny-state government in Germany. Their views on Freedom of Speech and Expression are the equivilent of a third-world authoritarian dictatorship. I can't see how this country can be called a democracy.

 "No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment

"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Wow, GP wiped out all the comments made by the fake JT and the responses.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Do you blame Dennis on that? One fake Thompson seems to summon the real one, and that gets just loud and annoying....

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Damn, I missed the JT faux-b-q!

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Apparently the foolish cretin came back for seconds. And just got deleted again.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

and again and again

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Germany's Interior Ministers Ask Bundestag For Total ...

Hey Jack it's our not "are", learn some proper grammar retard. And wow your calling us losers when your the one who's out of a job now and all you can do is spew out your hate filled bile on the internet. Germany is run by a bunch of wannabe fascists and I'm glad I don't live there. I'm just gonna laugh when there is another school shooting after this, what will they blame next? I'm glad I don't live in Germany all I can say is God Bless America and it's constitution which prevents shit like this from happening in our country. And Crytek, your welcome to come here we need the jobs.

 
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IanCErm so they shouldn't sell edutainment at all? Why?04/17/2014 - 4:42pm
MaskedPixelanteNot that linkable, go onto Steam and there's stuff like Pajama Sam on the front-page, courtesy of Night Dive.04/17/2014 - 4:13pm
Andrew EisenOkay, again, please, please, PLEASE get in a habit of linking to whatever you're talking about.04/17/2014 - 4:05pm
MaskedPixelanteAnother round of Night Dive teasing and promising turns out to be stupid edutainment games. Thanks for wasting all our time, guys. See you never.04/17/2014 - 3:44pm
Matthew WilsonAgain the consequences were not only foreseeable, but very likely. anyone who understood supply demand curvs knew that was going to happen. SF has been a econ/trade hub for the last hundred years.04/17/2014 - 2:45pm
Andrew EisenMixedPixelante - Would you like to expand on that?04/17/2014 - 2:43pm
MaskedPixelanteWell, I am officially done with Night Dive Studios. Unless they can bring something worthwhile back, I'm never buying another game from them.04/17/2014 - 2:29pm
PHX Corphttp://www.msnbc.com/ronan-farrow/watch/video-games-continue-to-break-the-mold-229561923638 Ronan Farrow Daily on Video games breaking the mold04/17/2014 - 2:13pm
NeenekoAh yes, because by building something nice they were just asking for people to come push them out. Consequences are protested all the time when other people are implementing them.04/17/2014 - 2:06pm
Matthew Wilsonok than they should not protest when the consequences of that choice occur.04/17/2014 - 1:06pm
NeenekoIf people want tall buildings, plenty of other cities with them. Part of freedom and markets is communities deciding what they do and do not want built in their collective space.04/17/2014 - 12:55pm
Sora-ChanI realize that they have ways getting around it, but one reason might be due to earthquakes.04/17/2014 - 4:42am
Matthew WilsonSF is a tech/ economic/ trade center it should be mostly tail building. this whole problem is because of the lack of tail buildings. How would having tail apartment buildings destroy SF? having tail buildings has not runed other cities around the US/world04/16/2014 - 10:51pm
Matthew WilsonAgain the issue is you can not build upwards anywhere in SF at the moment, and no you would not. You would bring prices to where they should have been before the market distortion. those prices are not economic or socially healthy.04/16/2014 - 10:46pm
ZippyDSMleeYou still wind up pushing people out of the non high rise aeras but tis least damage you can do all things considered.04/16/2014 - 10:26pm
ZippyDSMleeANd by mindlessly building upward you make it like every place else hurting property prices,ect,ect. You'll have to slowly segment the region into aeras where you will never build upward then alow some aeras to build upward.04/16/2014 - 10:25pm
Matthew WilsonSF have to build upwards they have natural growth limits. they can not grow outwards. ps growing outwards is terable just look at Orlando or Austin for that.04/16/2014 - 4:15pm
ZippyDSMleeIf they built upward then it would becoem like every other place making it worthless, if they don't build upward they will price people out making it worthless, what they need to do is a mix of things not just one exstreme or another.04/16/2014 - 4:00pm
Matthew Wilsonyou know the problem in SF was not the free market going wrong right? it was government distortion. by not allowing tall buildings to be build they limited supply. that is not free market.04/16/2014 - 3:48pm
ZippyDSMleeOh gaaa the free market is a lie as its currently leading them to no one living there becuse they can not afford it makign it worthless.04/16/2014 - 3:24pm
 

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