Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

June 8, 2009 -

There is, apparently, a consumer protest of sorts bubbling up around Valve's E3 announcement of Left 4 Dead 2.

A user group which opened within the last few days on Valve's Steam Community is actively calling for a boycott of the game and has nearly 17,000 members as I write this.

So, what are the protesters griping about? Via Videogames Republic, here's the list:

  • Significant content for L4D1 was promised, and never delivered
  • Valve put little faith in L4D1 since they almost certainly started working on L4D2 right after release
  • The fact that L4D2 is nearly identical to L4D1 will decimate the community for both games
  • The announced date is not nearly enough time to polish content or make significant gameplay changes
  • The new character designs seem bland and unappealing so far
  • L4D2 is too bright to fit in with L4D1’s visual aesthetic
  • The fiddle-based horde music is extremely disliked, though the differently orchestrated music is otherwise welcome
  • L4D2’s release will result in a drop in quality and frequency for L4D1 content, even compared to before
  • The community has lost faith in Valve’s former reputation for commitment to their games post-release

The group also has requests:

  • That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.
  • That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.
  • That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.
     

GP: To be honest, after EA's phony Dante's Inferno protest last week, I'm a but gunshy about declaring this one genuine and not another case of viral marketing. I'd like to hear more...


Comments

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

Just because Team Fortress 2 keeps getting new content for free, that doesn't mean Left4Dead should too. Why the hell should you get a sequel for free or at a reduced price just because you own the first one?

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

 Actually it was said before the game came out that there would be additional content, even a new campaign. 

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

"A lot of the value of a game like Left 4 Dead or a game like Team Fortress 2 is the community around it, since those are the people that you get to play with, and that’s where you’re deriving a lot of your enjoyment. So we’re taking the same approach that we’ve taken with Team Fortress 2, and doing that for Left 4 Dead."

I don't remember who said this, but it's a clip from an interview featured in this video, Lie 4 Money:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWylFmqnwM&feature=player_embedded

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

The outrage is because L4D never felt like a complete game.  It was small, and 2 VS campaigns were left out, only to be released later as free downloads.  It never should have shipped when it did, but they had to make the holidays.  Valve fans gave Valve the benefit of the doubt that they would release free expansions to make the game worth the $60 we paid for it, but that never happened.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

Really?  I thought releasing the other single player campaigns as 'versus mode' maps made the game 'complete'.  Yeah, they released it early to make the holidays, but by giving out a free update I think they fulfilled whatever promise fans thought they made.  

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

I agree with everything you just said.

Seriously, the game is complete.  And even before it was 'complete', I couldn't check my friends list (or turn on my Xbox) without getting a dozen requests to join a versus game.  If you don't feel you got your money out of L4D, then you weren't playing it right or something.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

Even outside that, I feel the game is complete.  I don't really get to play versus much (wireless internet, not going to try), but I get a friend to bring his 360 over and we do 4 player campaign and enjoy the ride.

 

The only problem I actually have with this is that  I know Valve could have done A LOT more with the game.  I later thought that maybe they can just make the first maps and characters as DLC to shut everyone up.  Of course they would need to remap things, but in the end it would quell the pitchforks and torches.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

People want to bitch and moan about a sequal coming out, fine.  That's their prerogative.  But are people seriously complaining that the music is different, the game is brighter and, the crowning piece of lunacy, that "the new character designs seem bland and unappealing so far?"  That's priceless!

Designers need a little bit of space to actually, you know, design their products.  When they go on to design new things, it must be understood that those things are, in fact, going to be NEW.  So the people are complaining that L4D2 coming out so soon after L4D is just Valve rehashing the same content to make some extra money while at the same time they're complaining that L4D2 is in any way different from the original.  If there was any justice in the world these people would be destroying in a puff of logic.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

I absolutely hate purists, which is the type of person I see half these complaints coming from.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

 Dude... to the guy saying "...deal with it...Valve is a company. They are here to make money."

That's not the point. The point is that Valve promised L4D content to their buyers. They promised those who PAID $$$ for L4D that the game would continually receive updates and it would be worth the purchase to the buyer. The point is that Valve is not staying true to their word... they lied.

That means they won't be making near as much money, because they pissed off their fans. If they were serious about making tons of real money, they wouldn't betray their fans.

 

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

Playing only the first 2 campaigns of versus (No Mercy and Blood Harvest), along with all the other stuff, it was well worth the 60 dollars I paid for it.  I must have gotten a thousand hours of play out of L4D.

We got the free content, whether you like it or not is your problem.  Besides, you have NO IDEA if they'll release more or not. 

If you knew how to make money, chances are this wouldn't be a problem to you, so I don't think Valve needs your take on how to make the $$$ they crave.  A lot of these 'fans' seem like whiny bitches to me.  If you feel that the thousand hours most people seem to have played L4D wasn't worth your 60 or 50 bucks, that sucks for you.  Don't buy the 2nd one so I don't have to deal with another jackass getting killed in the first minutes of a round.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

There it was. Can't believe it took two "paragraphs" for the elitism to come out.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

Tell you what, if you don't feel like you got your money's worth, turn your old copy in and don't buy L4D2.  The only people I know of who 'don't feel it was worth the money' are people who suck at the game or don't own a fuckin microphone.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

What a surprise - more elitism.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

So, you're saying that without the promised DLC, the game wasn't worth the $60?

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

I certainly am. Even with the current DLC released, it isn't even worth TWENTY bucks.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

Irrelevant really, if they promised DLC and didn't deliver the fans have a good reason to be pissed.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

  Damn buisness guys trying to make us spend money on dem!

---

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

L4D2 shound have been dcl for the first as far as im concered.

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

Valve is a company. They are here to make money. They're not here to be nice, give you tons of content for free. Deal with it.

Steam ID: canadakiller

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

Yes, Valve is a company.  But companies don't make money by pissing off 30,000 (as of today's count) of their loyal fans.  The fact is, Valve is releasing a package of 1, stuff that was planned to be free material to bring the original L4D to a fully finished state, and 2, stuff that was intended to be a DLC update for L4D.  These two additions which should have cost all of $20 tops, are being sold at full game price ($50 - $60), and you wonder why L4D players are dealing with it with a boycott?

You need to stop brown-nosing the folks at Valve and realise that there are issues that go beyond Valve's need to make short-term profits.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

They are dealing with it. By calling for a boycott and by making a list of grievances. You act as though they are calling for legislation against Valve or wanting to sure Valve, when they are simply doing the adult thing by voicing their (completely understandable) views.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

Ok, I havent play the 1st lfd,i will soon enough, but i dont see much wrong with the second one as long as is doesnt get to bland.

Magic Taco

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

The game is built for replayability, if you hate arcade style games w/o story, then I don't recommend it.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

Is this serious?  I guess knowing the gaming community it probably is.  Quick, somebody call the Waaaambulance! 

Valve caters to their customers moreso than any developer out there.  They give *free* updates to their games.  How many other major game companies do that?  They're list of complaints sounds about as dumb as all the Diablo 3 complaints people listed off when the trailer for that game came out.  These people need to just STFU and go back and play L4D in their parents' basement some more. 

Was  I pleased I got free L4D additional content?  Sure.  Did I expect it?  No, not really.  Especially with the economy the way it is, why would I expect a business to give out free products?  The fact that they did was awesome, but seriously, if they didn't I wasn't going to complain about it and get all my virtual friends to join some protest about it. 

 

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

<p>Heh.  I was just thinking that some of those complaints sounded an awful lot like the Diablo 3 rants.</p>

<p>Still, it is an aggregate list of what a multitude of people are complaining about. So it lumps the stupid in with the legit concerns.

Though this also highlights the danger of having such a good reputation of catering to your customers. If you stop, there will be backlash... and if you promise things that you do not deliver then the backlash is worse because people actually believe the company (rather then the jaded take people would have against most others).

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

I thought the EXACT same thing.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

You have to admit though

 

"L4D2 is too bright to fit in with L4D1’s visual aesthetic"

sounds EXACTLY like the D3 complaint.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

More brown damnit!

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

I can see you clearly understand the argument people are trying to make

Read the whole post or gtfo, seriously.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

Or maybe I'm not arguing and just having a little fun. With a statement like "L4D2 is too bright to fit in With L4D1’s visual aesthetic" I just couldn't resist hehehe. My apologies for forgetting the emoticon, however.

Oh, and thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'll be staying, I like this page. But anyways, I've had my fun, I've explained my post, so I don't see a need for any further replies. If you feel the need to have the last word then by all means, reply to this with all the fire and flame you can muster. I'll let you have them, enjoy.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

I love how people stop reading as soon as they see that complaint. I could tell that point would be the Achilles heel of this whole argument. Some people...

Well if you'd played the developer commentary you'd know that the darkness was a HUGE factor to the L4D feel.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

The Diablo 3 complaint was legitimate anyways...Diablo 2 was dark and had a great atmosphere, and then Diablo 3 starts to look like World of Warcraft and colorful and cartoony. Quite a legitimate complaint, and a reason for me not to purchase it.

Left 4 Dead 2, however, is far too similar to Left 4 Dead for me to purchase it.

-It is during the day (creating a worse atmosphere)

-Its characters are bland and unimaginitive

-It's been only a few months since Left 4 Dead was released and I do not feel that it is worth it to shell another $60 for a cheap expansion

This is the worst kind of activity that EA does, and I am thoroughly surprised to see such immature business activity from a company that prides itself in releasing good content at a fair price. Especially when we (the L4D community) was told that there was free content to be had, not a $60 repeat of the first game.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

Sorry, but you saying that the Diablo 3 complaint was legitimate makes any of your other complaints highly suspect. I'm always surprised when people somehow think that Diablo 2 was devoid of colour. How about you play it again? There's all kinds of colour all over the place.

Also, check this out: http://www.digitalbattle.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/diablo3.jpg

Wow, it's like sunshine and lollipops in that screenshot isn't it? So no, you don't have a legitimate complaint. But at least you're not buying it, I won't have to worry about bumping into you on battlenet.

O, and seriously, your complaints about L4D2 are laughable at best. During the day creates a worse atmosphere eh...how can you have any clue about the atmosphere? Unless you've somehow got a copy of it, you have no idea how it will feel to play through a daylit campaign. The bland and unimaginative characters bit. Wow. I don't see how they're any worse than the L4D characters. Are you even thinking about what you're typing?

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

The Diablo complaint was indeed mostly bullshit spewed forth by rabid fanboys stuck in a time period. The darkness of L4D isn't about color, it's about visibility. Listen to the dev commentary.

I can safely say I'm not a rabid L4D fanboy as I never even felt they ever offered it for the right price. It's a 20 dollar game that they tricked morons to pay 50+ for. I didn't buy it at $20 on steam that one weekend because it was supposed to be a SALE for LESS than it should be for retail.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

"-It is during the day (creating a worse atmosphere)"

You haven't played Dead Rising, or watched any of the Living Dead series, have you. Daytime =/= moodkiller.


"-Its characters are bland and unimaginitive"

The second game hasn't even come out yet, and you think you have a good idea of who or what the characters are?


"-It's been only a few months since Left 4 Dead was released and I do not feel that it is worth it to shell another $60 for a cheap expansion"

It will have been a year since the release of the first game that the second will be released. We still don't even know how full the game is going to be compared to the first when it's released, or if it'll make use of a new gameplay system that demands a second game instead of an expansion of the first.

This is what happens when a game becomes popular enough that the money garnered from it comes in fast enough and in such quantities that making an expansion is trivial at best, supplying a demand for a new game. Too often, people get to bitching about "DAMMIT, THIS IS JUST AN EXPANSION" and subsequently forgo the entire package out of raeg because they "have to" pay more for the "full game".

So which is it that you people want? Bitching for not being supplied the "full game" even though all an expansion would do is piss people off with interesting add-ons for "an unreasonable price", or bitching at them for making another game potentially from the ground up, and criticizing them for things the public doesn't have a goddamn clue about to begin with?

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

 " or if it'll make use of a new gameplay system that demands a second game instead of an expansion of the first. "

There does seem to be some reason to doubt that... from what it seems, it sounds like they did not plan to make a sequel and this is more of an after thought. From what was said it sounds like they make a shit load of content that they WERE going to make downloadable, but then they realized they had so much content that they decided to make the new content into a new game in and of itself...

Knowing that and the fact the game is only coming out a year later(new gameplay elements take a long time to implement and test) it's doubtful they could have added gameplay elements that would actually warrant a sequel as opposed to just an expansion.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

"There does seem to be some reason to doubt that... from what it seems, it sounds like they did not plan to make a sequel and this is more of an after thought. From what was said it sounds like they make a shit load of content that they WERE going to make downloadable, but then they realized they had so much content that they decided to make the new content into a new game in and of itself..."

2 counts of "seems like" and "sounds like" each, and the rest of it conjecture. As I said- we don't know. None of us are developing, most of us aren't even going to see the game until it's released. You can't make a whiney "not thinkin' about us consumers" argument based purely on conjecture.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

 The "sounds like" comes from some of the things said by valve about the game

"DL: One of the biggest pieces of feedback we got after the game came out, and even after the Survival Pack, was: this is all really great, I loved it, but I want a bunch more campaigns, I want more content. In a sense, L4D2 is a response to what players were asking for after the first one shipped. That’s really how it came about. I think if folks spot us a bit more time, they may see where we’re going with all this. The more they learn about how much there is in L4D2… I mean, twenty new weapons isn’t DLC! Three new Specials, and twenty weapons, and five new campaigns: that starts to feel like a sequel. I think as more gets unveiled as we go from E3 to Comic Con and PAX, and show the game in places where the public can play, and then when the demo comes out a couple of weeks before launch, I think people will get where we’re going, and hopefully don’t think that we’ve turned into some sort of opportunist cow milkers."

All they talk about is new weapons, enemies and campaigns(developed in under a year); ALL of which, could have been added to the first game (via downloads or expansion pack) and not need a second game... there is not a single word about significant gameplay changes that would make it warrant a true sequel... i mean those kind of additions is exactly WHY developers make expansion packs in the first place instead releasing a whole new game...

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

The Diablo 3 dungeon level was also dark and had a great atmosphere. I for one am looking forward to a Diablo game where outdoors it's not permanently night.
---
I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.


---
I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

On the surface, how did the L4D1 characters not appear bland and unimagintive before you were in game with them? The token black office guy, the token gollege co-ed, the grizzled war vet and the biker dude. Not terribly impressive.

Yes its during the day. Zombies are not the boogeyman and only come out at night. Personally while zombies at nightime is 'creepy', zombies at daytime is 'unnerving and eerie'. A horde of zombies charging at you while wiping boomer bile from eyes is is an 'aw fuck' moment regardless of time of day.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

 Not to mention that going outside during the day actually makes sense!

Seriously... being able to see clearly; not needing to watch every shadow; not having to deal with witches... ya i got no idea why anyone would go out to face zombies during the night... aside from "plot says so"

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

 Have you seen the videos of the NO level? It's during the day. Its not that it's "too bright" like d3, it's insanely bright. There's no reason for flashlights.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

Yeah, 'cause when the zombie apocalypse comes, the sun goes out and daytime never happens.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

 Just saying the film grain aesthetic has been a staple of the look of l4d, just like having zombie hordes made up of minorities has been a staple of the last 2 RE games.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

I don't believe that you can call it a staple when there's been only one game in the continuity....feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that one game thing.
 

---

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

I'm more concerned about when we're going to get Half-Life Episode 3.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

Considering it's Turtle Rock Studios that handles L4D (which was bought up by Valve but you can bet the whole team and a select few Valve team members handle the project), I'm willing to bet HL2ep3 is still on the slow train.  But I know valve always comes through.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

Same here, I've been wanting a chance to see the Borealis

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest... Apparently

This is why I don't call myself a "gamer".  A group of nerds are upset that a company isn't making games the way they like and are throwing a fit.  Don't like it= don't buy it.  End of story.

 
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