The unexpected gamer protest against Valve's E3 announcement of Left 4 Dead 2 has left more than a few obervers perplexed.
Add the name of G4's Adam Sessler to the list of those who don't get what the whining is about. On his latest Soapbox segment Sessler takes the L4D2 protesters to task:
We're going down that path again - this shocking, amazing sense of entitlement that always manifests itself in the gaming community... Valve does not have a habit of screwing people and if there was ever a developer out there I would just kind of give them the benefit of the doubt...
They don't owe you anything. It's a business... Where were you brought up and in what environment where you hugged so overwhelmingly that you feel that you need to be served as the only person that needs to be considered when other people are making commercial properties? It really is a little bit on the naive side and slightly embarrassing... It's kind of juvenile... The Internet, when it comes to games, can be such a nation of whiners...
Via: Gaming Today
Comments
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Wow, this is fun. My favorite part is the bit where people are dumb. It's classic internet.
To the people complaining that Valve must have started working on L4D2 before L4D was completed - you're almost right but still oh so wrong. L4D2 features stuff that they wanted in L4D but chose not to implement for whatever reason. When the developers were given, as is customary at Valve, the option to choose their next project they said, "hey, we want to make L4D2 and use all those cool ideas we didn't put in L4D! And let's get started right away!" The image of the whip-cracking uber-capitalist towering over developers and pissing on cowering consumers isn't exactly correct in this case. It's more like a scenario where creators decided to, you know, make something and *gasp!* sell it.
To paraphrase: IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY TO SCREW YOU.
The people bitching about the art direction in the game are just morons.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
As long as VALVe fulfills their promise of continuing to add downloadable content to L4D1 there is no reason for the consumer base to complain about L4D2. Even the "split community" argument won't hold up at that point. Just like any other game with a fanbase and sequels we'll see plenty of players playing both games, debating about what's better/worse in each and creating their own content using the various mod tools that will be available.
VALVe has a history of NOT screwing their customers. They say they'll continue with L4D1 content, so we should give them the benefit of the doubt and see what happens there. They say that L4D2 contains significant enough changes and improvements that it deserves to be a sequel and not free content or an expansion; until the game is released and reviewed no one can really make an informed judgement otherwise. If you're concerned about continued support for L4D1, fine - that's a valid concern and you should be heard. If you're looking at L4D2's promised content and think you deserve it as a free expansion for L4D1 then you have an undeserved sense of entitlement and need to realize that sometimes you just don't get everything you want without either working or paying for it.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Perhaps more to the point, who cares about L4D2. WHERE THE F**K IS EPISODE 3?
--------------------------------------------------
I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
I hear they hired 3D Realms to help make it.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Vaporware for the win?
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Then you KNOW it'll be awesome!
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
And we'll see it in 2020.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
I'm still towards the middle of this debate - I can't stand the protestors who have organised some surreal 'manifesto', citing their complaints as if they're a political group of some sort. Too many come off as nerd-rage-fuelled whiney kids.
However, on the other hand, Valve did promise further DLC for L4D, so I'm not surprised the fans are outraged when that does not appear to be surfacing and instead there's news of L4D2. Valve should have done something (Even if it was not a huge amount to detract from L4D2 development) for L4D1 to keep fans happy, rather than apparently ignoring the previous game and appearing to move on.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Ah Sessler your idiocy never ceases to amaze me. You're whinning about whiners..... That's the kettle calling the pot black.
Althou I believe that Valve is partialy "screwing" the fanbase by pulling this stunt and could backfire and affect sales. But I also believe that some of the arguments and requests from those who are mad at Valve are ridiculous.... I guess I am in the middle here.
The comment "Valve doesn't owe you anything" is also ridiculous if you put it into perspective. They don't owe consumers any money that's a fact but at least they owe those fans a certain degree of respect. When something becomes successful you just can't get up on the high horse forget about those brought you that good fortune. That's how good products have gone down the tubes and this is not the exception to the rule.
I am starting to thing that those comments from Sessler are comments from a pissed off fanboy who is mad at the angry mob who wants to boycott the game rather than a game journalist. (If it's possible to even say he is one)
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
I'm still on the fence on buying it. Leaning toward no, but we'll see how it does when it's reviewed.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
The "entitement" issue is a fucking strawman. This isn't about consumers whining about what they "deserve." This is about Valve doing something for pure profit without caring about the impact on the L4D community. Releasing a sequel to a multiplayer game so quickly will basically pillage the original game of players. Many will move on to L4D2, leaving L4D barren. The ones that stay with L4D (and why not, it's barely a year old) will have a hard time finding quality people to play with at any given time of the day. Valve promised to support L4D for several years, but they're already planning on denying the game its most valuable resource: players. It's one thing if another company and game stole players away from L4D, its quite another with Valve does it themselves with a direct sequel (setting and gameplay match).
Oh yeah, and how dare consumers join together and voice thier opinion. All we need now is for Adam to don a Security Forces uniform and a baton, and beat them for daring to stand up for themselves. (yeah, I think I just compared all this to the situation in Iran...)
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
The horror! The horror! Those people... trying to find other quality people to play a game with in a barren L4D landscape and always failing because everyone's playing L4D2! It's... it's too terrible to contemplate! I weep for those poor lost souls...
Yeah, but seriously, go outside.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Its one thing to voice your displeasure, and let Valve know you aren't going to stand for it. That is the right of any consumer.
It is an entirely other thing to seek out others and try to convince them to join your boycott, and form what amounts to an advocacy group so that you can try force the Developer to comply to your wishes just so you can have your way. Not every business is run like Burger King...
Seriously, if this is the sort of thing young people feel the need to spend needless time and energy on instead of more important matters where such advocacy could be justified...then I fear for our future.
"You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
If it's taken them three years and counting to produce one third of an expansion pack (HL2: Episode 3) then what makes people think this game is going to come out this side of 2012?
--------------------------------------------------
I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
L4D2 was given the release date of Nov 17, 2009.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
That suggests they've been stockpiling stuff that was originally intended to be for L4D1.
--------------------------------------------------
I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Because you work for Valve, and know exactly how they run their company, right?
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
"Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings."
No, it most certainly does not. Do they even teach civics in schools anymore?
The definition of Freedom of Speech has expanded over the years, but it isn't a free ride to say anything you want without consequences.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Alright then. Based on your obviously Ivy-League understanding of the United States Constitution, what is Freedom of Speech?
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Just a heads up, that's his signature.
Also, it doesn't say that you can say anything you want without consequences.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
"suggests" =/= "know exactly"
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Again, who are you to make that claim? You don't know anything as to how they run their company, so stop making baseless accusations about stuff you know nothing about, just because someone hurt your feelings.
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
It isn't baseless. We're reading the company's behavior. Right now they're telling us that they want to pull an EA because they haven't released any details contrary to this, just 'trust us.' Yes the game still has support, but we're talking about making a game that was going just fine as one into two for no clear reason. This is unprecented for Valve and it has a lot of the fans worried.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Well, maybe you should stop getting your panties in a bunch. You don't have a clue as to what will be happenning, outside of the release of L4D2. Therefore, you don't have enough information to make any claims whatsoever. That's why it is baseless.
You're comparing Valve to EA, a complete falacy. EA earned their reputation by doing what Valve is accused of doing for over 20 years. Valve MAY (it hasn't even happened) do something akin to what EA has done for over 20 years and you all turn on them. You're holding them guilty for something they haven't even done.
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Bingo.
And THATS what the anger is about. Sessler is way missing the point on this one.
Valve promised new content, weapons, infected, campaigns etc for L4D1. Then, 12 months after the release of L4D1 they are releasing L4D2 with...new content, weapons, infected, campaigns.. Yet nothing for L4D1...(yess there is the 'yet' argument.. but why continue to support L4D1 after L4D2 release if L4D2 is allegedly such a great improvement...)
The fact is games take 18 months + typically to develop. Therefore they started working on L4D2 before L4D1 was even released. People feel as though they should (12 months on from purchase) see at least SOME of the new weapons / campaigns / maps etc that where promised for L4D1 , before valve go on to making their next game. It just feels a bit like people have been promised something they were never really going to get (knowing that L4D2 was in development when the promises were made...).
The fact is that L4D2 uses the existing source engine. Heck most of the underlying game looks like it was taken from the existing L4D codebase (branching projects like this is not uncommon in the game development industry), and a few tweaks/mods thrown on top. People dont FEEL like this is a true sequel, and feel like the level of improvement from L4D1 -> 2 seems to be more akin to that found in an expansion rather than a sequel.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
You do know that Valve still supports the original Counter Strike, right? So your argument about "Why would they still support it?" is totaly unsupported.
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
You're still dividing the fan base. They've confirmed that the map editor will be for both games, but nothing on the weapons, new locations, etc.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
What's your point? There are more than enough fans to get away with it.
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
You know what would fix all this? Them announcing L4D2 will feature all the content from L4D1 and people who own the first game can upgrade for almost nothing.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Or more simply put... making L4D2 an expansion pack for L4D1... cause really, lots of new weapons, enemies, and campaigns for a game that's only been out for like a year is pretty much the exact reason why people make expansion packs instead of releasing whole new games.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
yeah agreed.
I actually posted on the forums saying itd be great if they did some fiurst week preorder bonus, where if you already own L4D 1 you get L4D2 50% off.
I mean financially its 100000 % do-able, they make so much profit off digital sales its crazy
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Exactly.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Correction: Not as long as three years, but still a ridiculously long time for a third of an expansion pack.
--------------------------------------------------
I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Its makign more money.......
I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Meh I have been out of the LD4 loop..... so they are relaseing the other half this soon? I guess thats a good thing......
I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
---
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
What the hell ever happened to: The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Seriously, they spoke up and Valve heard, and they might be wary of producing another sequel so soon (Really my only gripe about l4d2 and it's not enough to boycott IMHO). Weather or not all 30000 (last i heard) people ACTUALLY speak with their dollar and follow through with their threat is still to be seen though. Personally, I could care less, Valve produces good games i've gotten countless hours of fun out of l4d and am eagerly anticipating thee sequel.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
I am actually thinking of another current contrast to this debate.
The US auto industry. One of the key things that is hurting it is customer belief that the automakers will not be able to follow through on promises of replacement parts and such. Essentially people are unwilling to spend money on a product that they do not believe assurances that it will be supported through it's lifespan.
Naturally a game and a car are on two very differnt scales, but the pattern is similiar.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Your point about the US auto industry is based on a lie told by foreign car companies, that American cars can't do what they can. As far as reliability is concerned, no foreign car company can compete here in America with American reliability, mostly due to the fact that replacement parts are hard to find and expensive. Also, a lot of American car parts are interchangeable (within particular auto companies), whereas foreign cars don't have that luxury. If anyone is actually worried about not being able to find parts for their car, it's only because they have never heard of a salvage yard.
And if anyone is worried about Valve not supporting a game they made, they don't know Valve from crap. Even if Valve decides not to support L4D, it would be the first game they ever released that they didn't support. I mean, they still support the original Counter Strike. Therefore, I would have to assume that either a) the whiners don't know about Valve's reputation, or b) they don't care about Valve's reputation, and feel like whining for whining's sake. I do understand where they're coming from, but if any game company deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's Valve.
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Good comparisson; I actually purchase Hondas because I know they last a long time and Honda comes through on taking care of me down the road.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Agreed, 2 out of the 3 vehicles my family owns are Hondas, one that is older than me and still kicking.
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Wow just Wow; I'm amazed at some of the responses to this post and to the douchebag being quoted up top in this post.
Its very simple as a consumer I have expectation and if my expectations are not met reasonably I am in my right to bitch and protest and boycott the company who is not meeting my expectations especially if I have already forked over money to said company.
Here's a question to above douchebag (the guy being quoted in the post); what world do you live in where you believe everyone should just fork over their money for something and when they get screwed should just suck it up and go oh well at least in 6 months I can give them some more moeny and get screwed again. Frankly if you truly believe that is how a consumer should act then may I introduce you to Comcast for all your internet needs they would love you.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Nobody said that they had to buy the sequel. If you don't want the sequel, don't buy it. It's as simple as that. Complaining about the sequel, or anyone chastising people who complain, won't do anything.
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Amusing coincidence: Adam Sessler is employed *by* Comcast.
/b
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
OMG no shit 0.o that is awesome. Just so you know I really didnt know that; I had never heard of this guy before today.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Why does Sessler even have a soapbox? The guy has terrible taste in games (he literally gave a game that's a horrible Devil May Cry clone a 4/5). But I digress...
The real issue here is they haven't announced things they should have by this point. L4D1's community is massive and all of a sudden, long before the original is out of date, they're making a sequel, effectively splitting their market. This is very unlike Valve to say the least, this is more like EA territory. Now if there were an inkling that L4D1 and 2 would be able to merge, even including the classic L4D maps in L4D2 and such, then it would be okay. Well, still not great due to the rapid upgrade, but yeah. This is like if Starcraft 2 came out one year after Starcraft 1, new units and all but with equal graphics. Yeah there is cool new stuff in 2, but some of the great stuff from 1 will have been phased out in favor of new stuff and its the same thing here with maps if nothing else.
What I really don't get about Sessler's rant is he apparently thinks its dumb that the target audience would get upset about their community getting divided due to the requirement to get a whole new game to continue the experience in full. Oh yeah, and saying we should give them the benefit of the doubt and then calling other people naive? I think he's officially behind the curve here.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
1000% agreed. I like your idea to, of merging the L4D1 maps and stuff...
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
::CLAP:: Awesome response a lot better than mine and sums it up very well.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Although I agree with the people saying that if consumers don't complain things don't get better, I have to side with Sessler on this one.
I'm getting a little sick and tired of consumers complaining about EVERYTHING. Voting with your dollars is far more effective than whining about it on internet message boards. If everyone who CLAIMED they weren't going to buy a product actually DIDN'T buy said product, it would send a much louder message.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
"Voting with your dollars is far more effective than whining about it on internet message boards."
Voting with your dollars shows more conviction but provides less information to the publisher. If people refused to buy L4D2 because of the reasons given in the complaint, but they kept quiet about why they were refusing to buy it, Valve would be left guessing about the cause. They might end up misattributing the lost sales to the state of the economy, for example.
The best option is to follow through on both fronts: Don't buy the game, and make sure to tell the publisher why you aren't buying the game.
Re: G4's Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners
Here here.
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.