Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, Conservative Group Argues in Supreme Court Brief

June 26, 2009 -

The conservative Eagle Forum has filed an amicus (friend of the Court) brief with the United States Supreme Court in support of California's 2005 violent video game law.

As GamePolitics reported last month, California Attorney General Jerry Brown petitioned the High Court to review a U.S. District Court ruling that the state's 2005 law blocking the sale of violent games to minors is unconstitutional. A three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit Court upheld the District Court decision in a February ruling.

The family values group, founded by conservative Phyllis Schlafly (left) in 1967, filed the brief on Monday. The document was authored by Andrew Schlafly, son of Phyllis and founder of Conservapedia (sort of the anti-Wikipedia). In the amicus brief, the Eagle Forum lays an array of societal problems at the feet of violent video games: bad grades, violent behavior, poor graduation rates, school shootings, game addiction and even sudden death.

We'll let the Eagle Forum's laundry list speak for itself (with a little help from GP's trusty red pen):

The First Amendment does not render our nation’s youth defenseless against the predatory, billion-dollar video game industry that churns out increasingly graphic blood and gore for impressionable minds to imbibe...

 

The corruption of our nation’s youth with increasingly deviant video games is a matter of national importance. Our nation’s youth is in crisis, by any measure. A calamitous 30% of our nation’s youth fail to graduate from public high school, and only 32% of those who attend public high school are ever qualified to attend a four-year college...

 

A substantial percentage of teenagers are hooked on these disturbing video games, and spend many hours each week playing them. Moreover, mass killings perpetrated by youngsters are frequently linked to addiction to violent video games...

 

The First Amendment does not forbid state legislatures from keeping this harmful material from children. The California legislature, not known to be conservative, protected its youth against the predatory video game industry. It was an error with national implications for the Ninth Circuit to invalidate the California statute...

Violent video games hurt children in two ways. Their increasingly realistic and disturbing images burn into children’s impressionable minds much as pornography does, and the role-playing inherent in a video game causes the child to buy into the rampages of murder and other heinous crimes that he is acting out...

 

The early market leader in video games was Nintendo, which adopted a policy against “excessive blood and violence,” but it was trounced in sales by a 3 to 1 margin by more gory material produced by Sega, and Nintendo learned the message that “violence sells video games to children...”

 

Numerous studies confirm the obvious: violent video games do cause addiction and harm... There has never been a full First Amendment right to flash highly objectionable and disturbing images specifically at children, or to entice them to participate in destructive role-playing behavior...

Displaying a shocking image to a child is conceptually identical to the utterance of “fighting words” to an adult, which this Court famously held to be out-side of First Amendment protection...

The stress attributed to violent video games can even be physically harmful. Eighteen-year-old Peter Burkowski, an avid video gamer, collapsed and died of a heart attack while playing games in an arcade...

 

Children who play violent video games have difficulty obeying authorities, treating peers properly, and succeeding in school...

DOCUMENT DUMP: Grab a copy of the Eagle Forum's amicus brief here.


Comments

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

The corruption of our nation’s youth with increasingly deviant video games is a matter of national importance. Our nation’s youth is in crisis, by any measure. A calamitous 30% of our nation’s youth fail to graduate from public high school, and only 32% of those who attend public high school are ever qualified to attend a four-year college...

Couldn't be our shitty schools, could it?

A substantial percentage of teenagers are hooked on these disturbing video games, and spend many hours each week playing them. Moreover, mass killings perpetrated by youngsters are frequently linked to addiction to violent video games...

I won't debate the existence of addiction to games; hell people get addicted to food, but FREQUENT? Any basis for this claim? And no, "many hours each week" is not clear enough no claim addiction, you could just be over reacting (likely) or it could just be a lack of discipline and proper priorities. On the mass killing note, that's just garbage, and it's been dissmissed by federal investigations into such incedents(see the book 'Grand Theft Childhood'). Good lord, learn the difference between correlation and causation...

Violent video games hurt children in two ways. Their increasingly realistic and disturbing images burn into children’s impressionable minds much as pornography does, and the role-playing inherent in a video game causes the child to buy into the rampages of murder and other heinous crimes that he is acting out...

That's why games have ratings and content discriptors. And please explain what all this "buy into the rampages of murder" nonsense is about.

The early market leader in video games was Nintendo, which adopted a policy against “excessive blood and violence,” but it was trounced in sales by a 3 to 1 margin by more gory material produced by Sega, and Nintendo learned the message that “violence sells video games to children...”

Chamale already listed sales and nintendo's at the top with one of there non violent Wii games. And once again, I must remind you of the ESRB ratings and content discriptors. Violent games are not intended for children. That's what the big ol' M17+ is all about.

Numerous studies confirm the obvious: violent video games do cause addiction and harm... There has never been a full First Amendment right to flash highly objectionable and disturbing images specifically at children, or to entice them to participate in destructive role-playing behavior...

Please be more specific. AND AGAIN, ESRB RATINGS. COME ON.

Displaying a shocking image to a child is conceptually identical to the utterance of “fighting words” to an adult, which this Court famously held to be out-side of First Amendment protection...

No it isn't. This has already been established by folks like E. Zacheary Knight.

The stress attributed to violent video games can even be physically harmful. Eighteen-year-old Peter Burkowski, an avid video gamer, collapsed and died of a heart attack while playing games in an arcade...

 Source please? And two things can happen at the same time and not be related. I could be typing this and then have to use the bathroom. That doesn't mean typing makes me need to pee.

Children who play violent video games have difficulty obeying authorities, treating peers properly, and succeeding in school...

Again, source?

 

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Children who play violent video games have difficulty obeying authorities

 

Or it could be THEY ARE TEENAGERS... Goddess knows I didn't have the greatest respect for authority when I was in my teens. Still don't when the authorites in question are like these assholes.

 

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Indeed. It's also important to note that not obeying authorities isn't always a bad thing; if the founding fathers hadn't been rebelious this country wouldn't exist. Even in modern times plenty of authority figures abuse that authority and don't deserve respect or obedience.

That's one thing that I find especially disturbing about crazy ass super conservatives, they always seem to mistake obedience with ethics and morality.

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Don't forget that crazy-assed super liberals do the exact same thing, just on the other side of the spectrum.  "You didn't vote for the black presidential candidate?  You must be racist!  You didn't vote for the woman presidential candidate?  You must be sexist!"  These things were uttered so much during the 08 campaigns that a political cartoonist made a cartoon where this guy asked Dem voters whether they were a sexist voter or racist one.

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Voting for Obama just because he's black is just as racist as not voting for him for the same reason. Why do some people have such a hard time seeing that?

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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Fighting words.... fighting words...... thats their reason..... wow.

Aparently these people never heard "sticks and stones..." before. Ah well, they are extremist nut jobs who are out of touch with reality. Though on a seperate line of thought, has anyone thought a fighting game where you fight with and As words; Literally! Two words duking it out with each other to determine which is better. I'd play that.

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Responsibility: Its time that the next generation takes up the reigns of power in our government, before the old fools who hold them steer this country of ours closer to capsizing. We must act before its to late to repair the damage.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

- "Quick... think of a form of speech that is legal to suppress."

- "Um... libel?"

- "Games are libel? No, no. That won't do. Give me something that deals with violence."

- "Um... fighting words?"

- "Fight-ing words. Brilliant! Violent video games are like fighting words. It's so obvious! How did I not see it before? Fighting words."

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Hahahaha, I betchya that's how it went down too.

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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Wow. That bit from the Eagle forum was like a forced abortion to my fucking brain. Seriously, "numerous studies"? Gah, I'll come back to this when I heal a bit...


Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

I really take issue with their claims that gory and violent video games tend to be bestsellers. Let's look at the 20 best-selling games of all time:

1. Wii Sports [E]

2. Super Mario Bros. [E]

3. Tetris [E]

4. Wii Play [E]

5. Nintendogs [E]

6. Pokémon Red, Blue, and Green [E]

7. Super Mario World [E]

8. New Super Mario Bros. [E]

9. Wii Fit [E]

10. Super Mario Bros. 3 [E]

11. Brain Age [E]

12. Pokémon Diamond and Pearl [E]

13. The Sims [T]

14. Mario Kart Wii [E]

15. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec [E]

16. Mario Kart DS [E]

17. Pokémon Gold and Silver [E]

18. Super Mario Land [E]

19. Brain Age 2 [E]

20 (tie). Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire [E] and The Sims 2 [T].

 

In the top 10, all of the best-selling games are rated E for Everyone, and there are only 2 games rated T for Teen in the top 20. The only games rated T for Teen have that rating for "sexual themes, comic mischief, mild violence" or "crude humour, sexual themes, violence". Not exactly GTA.

This is a signature virus. Please copy and paste into your signature to help it propagate.

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Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Ugh.. Dont make me look at that list anymore.. There shouldn't be so many poorly made wii games on a top 20 list..

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Do we really need a forum level console war debate on here?

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

It's pretty ironic considering that they compared video games to fighting words and we ended up using them "Fightin Woids" over a Best Selling Video Games list.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

The funny thing is most gamers spend more time fighting among themselves they really against those that critize XD

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

"poorly made"? Actually those are some of the best made games on the Wii.

Unless you are talking "poorly made" as in they use motion controls, do not have the same graphics as games found on the PS3 and/or the 360, and are made for the Wii, then yes, they are "poorly made".

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

I think it refers to poorly made as in shovelware.  But one can hardly fault Nintendo for doing what they are doing.  If they can make more money with less effort by selling garbage to the masses than by selling quality to those who were formerly their customers then it would be insane for them to take a course of action that would make them less money.

Nintendo is to the gaming world what corporate assembled boy bands are to the musical world.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

@Erik

The 3rd parties are responsible for the shovelware.  They're the ones trying to make a quick buck off of the Wii.  I suppose games like SSBB and SMG don't exist then.

I thought GP only attracts Jack Thompson as a troll, not console trolls

 

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Console Trolls?

Well, I apologize for lamenting the current state of the Gaming Industry and the Quality of the software they are currently throwing out at us.. I'll be sure to keep my opinions to myself from now on..

/sarcasm

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Wii sports == Lame pack in with broken controls in all but 2 of the games..

Nintendogs == Do I even need to expand on that? Nintendogs?! Come on.. Its a game made for children and teenage girls. All you need is some cute animal and BAM! best seller. Not exactly a good game by any means.

Brain Age == Thats hardly a game. At least in the sense of what generally attracts the serious fans of video games. Those things being a compelling story, emotional attachment, well developed characters.. This is nothing but a series of brain puzzlers packeged in such a way as to fool people into thinking they are getting smarter..

Hardly ANY of the games on that list (Note that I didn't say ALL of them) really deserve to be up there. GTA4 was a great game.. The Final Fantasies were Great Games (well, most of them..), Call of Duty was a great game, The entire Black Isle Forgotten Coast games were great games.

Those games in that list, with a few exceptions, are nothing but trivial entertainment for throngs of people who don't actually appreciate what true gaming is. At risk of sparking a casuals vs hardcore's debate, those games were designed with maximum sales in mind, not for advancing the artform. I find it hard to respect games designed soley to take money from a moronic casual populace who think it is awesome that they can Totally pet thier dogs!!!1! on thier DS or Wii.

It is truly depressing to know that so very few companies exist to advance the art of gaming and to progress games to the point where they are even more cinemactic and awe inspiring than even the best movies of our time. 

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

They sold more copies than any other game.  That makes them "deserve" to be on a list of the top-selling games of all time.  Now if the list was titled "Games Valdearg doesn't think are crap because he doesn't understand that immature teenagers and young adult males aren't the only people who deserve to play video games because he's a tool who thinks that gaming is only cool when it isn't mainstream," then you'd be right.

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

"Games Valdearg doesn't think are crap because he doesn't understand that immature teenagers and young adult males aren't the only people who deserve to play video games because he's a tool who thinks that gaming is only cool when it isn't mainstream,"'

Yup, you keep telling that to your Nintendog...

I'm fine with more and more people enjoying games as time goes on. What upsets me is how far companies, especially nintendo, have dumbed down thier games in order to make money and bring more people to buy games.

It annoys me that people buy those games, with thier rushed development, poor controls, and very poor concepts, rather than the games that truly stand above the rest in the artform. Games shouldn't be treated as a giant money grab. They should be treated as what they are, an artform..

Note: Im not against casual games or the Wii in general. In fact, some of the best fun I've had playing a game in the past few months was playing Boom Blox with my Girlfriend and some friends.. Casual games can be fun games, its just that most of the games that Nintendo makes for the Wii and the DS, especially when they are targeted towards the casual audience, are just SO BAD. What makes it worse, is that these people gobble it up, which just encourages the gaming companies to take more funds from quality games and direct them towards these pathetic excuses for games, just so they can increase thier bottom lines.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

If you don't like the games, don't buy them and don't play them.  However, just because YOU don't like the game, that doesn't mean that companies don't have a right to make them, knowing they'll sell and they'd make a fuck-ton of money.  That's what a company is supposed to do, make money.  Maybe you need a history lesson.  The N64 and the GC were both technologically superior to their rivals and homes for hardcore gaming.  However, they both were outsold by inferior technology because people weren't making games for them.  Now, Nintendo is back on top because of the commercial successes they've garnered with the Wii.

You don't run the gaming industry, and you can't change sales data, so you're just going to have to deal with the fact that games you don't like sold better than the games you do.

The point that was trying to be made, that you missed completely because of how retarded you are, is that 18 of the top 20 selling games of all time are rated E for Everyone.  The other 2 were rated T for Teen, due to some content that is similar to what you'd see on an episode of Batman: The Animated Series.  This was brought up to point out that the most popular games in history are not viloent at all, or are less violent than what would be found on mature cartoons, therefore can't be the scourge of society that extremists on both sides of the political spectrum try to make it out to be.

Get your head out of Halo and MGS long enough to actually think about stuff that concerns more than just you, okay?

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Hahahahahahahaha...

"Get your head out of Halo and MGS long enough to actually think about stuff that concerns more than just you, okay?"

This comment right here shows exactly how ignorant you are. I never played MGS, never had a thing for stealth action games. And while I played Halo, I don't really like people who play it hardcore, considering a lot of them have never played anything else.

Also, I caught the point that the games were all E or T rated, it still doesn't change the fact that like 17 of them are just awful games, and they were rushed out the doors and onto the shelves becuase the gaming companies don't have any respect for thier consumers' intelligence and know that if you put a cute little puppy on it, it will sell like mad.

Also, cut the whole "Free market RULES!" bullshit. Free Market Capitialism is what causes this whole issue in the first place. When money becomes the sole goal of a company, instead of recognition, praise, and admiration, games become less like an artform, like they should be, and become something different.  Those games on that list, while having the same protections as true, quality, artistic games, are nothing like them. They are pathetic and successful attempts at making games that appeal to the uninformed masses, with no respect given to gameplay or entertainment value. This is what the industry will become in 15 years. Who needs to spend thousands of man hours and millions of dollars on a ground breaking, genre defining, beautifully done game, when you can have your team chug out 20 of these craptacular "best sellers" in the same amount of time?

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

If companies don't make money, they don't stay companies, you idiot.  It definitely isn't the sole driving force of any company that wants to exist in the long term, but no company can survive without turning a profit.  Once again, these companies don't answer to you.  It's probably a good thing, too, because you obviously don't know good games when you see them.  Wii Sports does have some control issues, but it's still a very fun game.  Wii Play is probably only on that list because of the free controller, but Brain Age is actually statistically proven to make people smarter.  As for the rest, these were all great games.  If Super Mario Brothers and it's sequels weren't made, we never would have the industry as big as it is.  The Pokemon games are RPG's aimed at kids, getting them ready for more advanced material, and that's always a good thing.  With these exceptions, there aren't any real casual games on that list.

So, again, seeing as how you disapproving of this list makes you CLEARLY in the minority (if not the only one there), stop pretending to be some sort of a gaming badass and actually do something worthwhile.  If you don't like the state of this list, how about you make the game you would want to see on this list, and see how it compares?

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

"If companies don't make money, they don't stay companies, you idiot."

And if they're not making anything worthwhile, as a game, who cares?  I'd rather work for a company that has a tight budget and is making something new and original, than work for EA and pump out Madden 20XX.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Nobody cares where you'd rather work.  That also has absolutely no bearing on the 20 best-selling games list.  My point is nobody has a right to say that certain games have no business being on that list, unless they didn't actually sell as many copies necessary to be on that list.  The reason the list was printed here is because of the fact that this list is a crude but effective means of measuring popularity.  Most of these games were critically acclaimed, and were extremely popular on their own merits.  Others were helped onto this list, and MAYBE shouldn't be because of such, but the fact of the matter is they did sell that many copies.  However, since Valdearg has no influence on the gaming industry other than his personal purchases, making claims that the games he likes should be on this list instead of what is already on there is very self-absorbed, as is claiming that gaming companies should only make games he'd approve of, in order to appeal only to a hardcore audience.

The fact of the matter is, thanks to Nintendo's choices over the last few years, we are at a precipice in our industry.  There are a whole lot of people that, until recently, would never have considered purchasing a console.  As such, they will most likely eventually experiment with something a bit more advanced than the party games, just to validate the initial expense of a game console.  Making claims that casual games don't deserve to be made is a very archaic thought process that makes no sense.  No corporation could survive worldwide concentrating on only their hardcore fanbase.  Why do you think GM and Chrysler are in trouble?  They didn't expand, and they are dying.  Ford may be on the verge of collapse, but they are putting a big gamble on the table, and if they succeed, I don't think anything could stop them (except Obama, because I'm pretty sure he'd find a way to gum up Ford, even though they didn't take a dime of taxpayer money).

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

I never once said the games I liked should be on the list. It just frustrates me to no end to see shit games on the list. I can't change the fact that they are best sellers, but I can certainly lament the attitude that Nintendo, among others, is taking with regard to making tons of shitty games that appeal to the ignorant masses, rather than several quality games that appeal to people who truly enjoy gaming as an art form.

You must really enjoy failing at reading my mind and putting words in my mouth with regards to how I feel about this subject, like most morons like you seem to do. The bottom line is that most of the games on that list are trash. Yes, they deserve to be there strictly based on thier sales figures, but to debate the quality of the games is a debate you will lose.

Just remember what your "Corporations SHOULD make shitty games for more profit" thinking is going to get you.. A whole generation of "games" like Nintendogs and broken, unfinished games like most of the shit that EA pumps out. Say goodbye to innovative, entertaining and intelligent games, and hello to new generations of shovelware.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

It's talking to a wall, Valdearg, don't bother.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

I know.. But at least it gives me something to do while my code is compiling at work..

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Well, Nintendo ARE on a concerted effort to phase out the whole 'gameplay' part of their games so that more people will buy their products. "Games that play themselves? Wow, just like a movie!"

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

@DarkSaber

"Games that play themselves? Wow, just like a movie!"

Even though that feature is going to be entirely optional and (in the best case scenario) would allow developers to make a game hard enough for us Gamers to enjoy (not using the "H word"), but at the same time not scaring them off as well.

...Anyway, I thought we're talking about Right Wing Elitists, not being Gaming Elitists that give us a bad name.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Them's fightin' woidz. See you in court.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

I agree. Life is stupid. And so is the Wii.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Yeah, but to these people Pokemon is an example of grotesque violence peddled to children with cute critters and pretty colors...


Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

OR a plot by the japanese to brainwash the children of the US.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Chinpokumon FTW!

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

I Think The free speech collition and the US supreme court slammed Ashcroft over violent media and said that obsenity only applys to sexually explicit media(and pretty much Yee is screwed)

Taken from media colition website(via PDF file) http://www.mediacoalition.org/mediaimages/finalcomment.pdf

As the Supreme Court stated in Free Speech Coalition v. Ashcroft: “As a general principle,
the First Amendment bars the government from dictating what we see or read or speak or hear. The
freedom of speech has its limits; it does not embrace certain categories of speech, including defamation,
incitement, obscenity and pornography produced with children.” 535 U.S.1382, 1389 (2002). The
Court has never approved the restriction of speech based solely on violent content. Indeed, as shown
below, federal courts consistently have rejected government attempts to do so.

I think we have a chance here(for SCOTUS to deny it altogether)

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

ah conservipedia

set up by a guy who felt that the reality centered wikipedia was being unfair to him trying to change reality by changing our documentation of it

"I don't like reality, I don't like wikipedia because it is reality centric so I will set up my own site and hope that if I say reality is like this enough and get enough people around me that agree maybe it will become true"

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

The guy thought wikipedia had a liberal bias, so what's an academic man to do, set up a wikipedia knock-off that is neutral? No no no no no that would make far too much sense and be far too honest, instead he sets up a wikipedia knock-off with a tremendous bias towards conservatives.

Also your post and conservapedia reminds me of a quote from Adam Savage

"I reject your reality and substitute my own".

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Somebody should explain to this chick that the whole point of the ESRB is to make violent games less likely to get into the hands of kids.  If kids are playing violent games, it's the fault of their parents or legal guardians for not making informed choices about their childrens' entertainment.

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

"If kids are playing violent games, it's the fault of their parents or legal guardians for not making informed choices about their childrens' entertainment."

 

No, because that concept relies on accepting personal responsibility for ones own actions.

Personal responsibility is something we just won't tolerate in this day and age.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Sarcasm, much?

"We are not at fault! It's them damn vidjagames! Halb-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-blb!"

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Game on, brothers and sisters.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." -- Ben Franklin Game on, brothers and sisters.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

"Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings."

No, freedom of speech protects lying.  It does not protect fraud or libel, however.

I am completely allowed to come up to you, shake your hand, and introduce myself by the name of Bob Smith.  A lie, but not illegal.  It becomes illegal when I follow up with "..and I represent charity X, would you like to make a donation?" because then it is fraud.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

While there are several exceptions to freedom of speech that encompass even the truth, I'm afraid you've fallen into a logical fallacy.

Saying that "Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth." is not the same as saying "freedom of speech doesn't protect any lies".

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

No, intentional self-misrepresentation is illegal by federal law, as it is a precursor to terrorist activities.  Nice try.

Little tip, though, how about you not comment on my sig and actually comment on the story?

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Pro tip: A little seperator between your message and your sig (like everyone else has) will prevent people making the mistake they always make. Any idiot would have worked that out by now.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

I strongly suggest reading every message before you hit "Post comment", and if it's not something you'd say to a person's face, either edit it or don't post it.

And if you see no problem with this kind of hostility, even in person, then consider taking steps to improve yourself.

That could go for many of the other readers here, as well.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

Uh-huh..

I strongly suggest reading every message before you hit "Post comment", and if it's something that would make you seem like a holier than thou dipshit, either edit it or don't post it.

And if you see no problem with this kind of hypocracy then consider taking steps to improve yourself.

 

There you go, I fixed it so it applies to you now.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

It's amazing what anonymity and a perceived lack of consequences can do to a person.

And I do mean perceived, because the consequences can be very real. A little over two weeks ago, a person I know - mostly in passing - committed suicide over a post by a troll in an online forum. That poster will probably never even realize he/she caused someone's death, and can continue trolling with an unblemished conscience.

From the little bit of information I've been able to find, while these kinds of suicides are infrequent, they are rising.  Even when the damage is not so dramatic, unleashing this kind of bile against someone can cause damage. Not to everyone, perhaps, but you never know who you're talking to on the internet - and it's really not necessary to be so rude, is it?

So have I begun to reevaluate how I behave online? Yes, absolutely. Do I expect to change the world? No, not really.

But you can bet when I run across someone harassing somebody online, I'm going to call them out on it. I am sorry if you cannot understand that - but there is no need to retaliate over it.

Re: Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, ...

I can tell you with 100% certainty that I am no troll. I just happen to hate it when people attempt to act like thier shit doesn't stink.

To chastise someone, on an internet forum, no less, for being a dick is, well, being a dick. You don't know this person, and you sure as hell don't have any influence in thier lives whatsoever. Like JDKJ said, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire.

To me, if I wasn't trying to be a dick before, and someone happens to pull the amazingly egotistical, "I'm going to lecture you on the internet about being nice to people", holier than thou attitude. I will make it a point to be a bigger dick to them in the future.

And, even better, I happen to have no concience when it comes to people I don't know. If my words happen to cause someone I don't know to kill themselves, I can honestly say, I wouldn't feel a damn bit of remorse. In fact, considering my words aren't exactly that harsh, I might actually be slightly amused at the fact that someone was so fucked up mentally that my snide comment about something pushed them over the edge.

Yes, I am that callous. Ask JDKJ, I have no respect for people I don't know, and delight in the suffering of people I don't like.  I laughed at the way David Carradine died (I had nothing against him, but the circumstances were hilarious), and I was gleeful when I heard the news that Michael Jackson died (I hated that 'accused' child molester).

Yes, I am an unapologetic dick. And, while I don't go out of my way to piss people off like a pathetic internet troll who has nothing better to do, but I certainly have no qualms about offending people who happen to have caught my ire.

So, I will ask: What have we learned here? I hope that we have learned that attempting to put out the flames will just cause them to rise, and be redirected towards you.

 

 
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PHX CorpI'm going to do a test stream later today, if anyone is intrested07/31/2014 - 2:40pm
Andrew EisenYes, I'm such a big Nintendo dork that I read Nintendo's quarterly financial reports.07/31/2014 - 2:09pm
Andrew EisenCool tidbit - Mario Kart 8 sales account for more than half of total Wii U software sales for the last quarter even though it was only available for the last third.07/31/2014 - 2:09pm
Andrew EisenStill a pretty cool promotion. Unfortunately for me, I'm not interested in purchasing Mario Kart 8 and I already owned or didn't want any of the free games on offer.07/31/2014 - 1:43pm
Andrew EisenInteresting that EU had 10 games to choose from while North America only had four.07/31/2014 - 1:41pm
MaskedPixelanteIt certainly worked, I probably would never have bought Mario Kart 8 if it didn't come with a free copy of Wind Waker HD.07/31/2014 - 1:14pm
Andrew EisenI imagine will see similar promotions like "Buy Mario Kart 8 get a download code for one of these specific games" but almost certainly not for all of its (however you would define) biggest releases.07/31/2014 - 11:24am
MaskedPixelanteI wonder if Nintendo is going to be doing "buy one get one free" promos for all their biggest releases going forward.07/31/2014 - 10:48am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/special-report-retail-revolt-over-pc-code-strippers/013614007/31/2014 - 8:27am
ZippyDSMleeWouldn't they be able to afford and get done in a timely manner a general gba emluator for the 3DS? It seems to me if they want to make money off sales they need to do it.07/31/2014 - 7:25am
Sora-ChanAmbassador program, that's what I was looking for. Anyway the other games that have been made no longer exclusive to the early adopters got updates in their software. It'll only be a matter of time more than likely for the GBA to get the same treatment.07/31/2014 - 5:35am
Sora-ChanI might be naming it incorrectly when I say "founder" i mean the program for earlier adopters.07/31/2014 - 5:34am
Sora-Chanthe 3DS's GBA emulator was a rush job due to the founder program. No other GBA titles have been released on the 3DS yet. If/When they do get around to it, they'll more than likely update the emulation software.07/31/2014 - 5:32am
Zenemulator...it's not just a slap job that makes "some" work..they do it for each which is why they work so well. I would rather have the quality over just a slap job.07/30/2014 - 5:48pm
ZenMatthew there is a difference between "worked" and "accurate". You play the Nintendo VC titles they play as damn close to the original as possible. The PSP would just run them as best they could, issues and all. And Masked...EACH VC title has their own07/30/2014 - 5:48pm
MaskedPixelanteOnce again, the 3DS already HAS a GBA emulator, it just can't run at the same time as the 3DS OS.07/30/2014 - 4:54pm
Matthew Wilsonyou cant street pass in ds mode ether, and if moders can make a gba emulator that runs very well on the psp as I understand it. you are telling me that Nintendo devs are not as good as moders?07/30/2014 - 4:49pm
Zenperformance. Halo 1 and 2 worked great because they actually did custom work on each of them...just like Nintendo does now lol07/30/2014 - 4:08pm
Zenexisting hardware while the GBA has to be emulated completely. Same reason the 360 couldn't run most Original Xbox games correctly, or had issues because they just did "blanket approach" for their emulation which led to game killing bugs or horrible07/30/2014 - 4:07pm
ZenSora/Matthew: It's not just Miiverse, but the whole idea of streetpass and things like that would be affected if the OS is not running. And just because a 3DS game can be downloaded and run does not mean that GBA can as easily. Those 3DS games use the07/30/2014 - 4:06pm
 

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