Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

July 6, 2009 -

By all accounts, the Independence Day debate between Jack Thompson and gamer/lawyer Mark Methenitis was a froth-free success. Thompson, who can be a charmer when he cares to, appears to have impressed the SGC09 audience with a respectful demeanor and self-effacing humor.

Of course, expo attendees sampled but a small slice of the disbarred attorney's act. Naturally, he didn't compare any of them to Saddam Hussein and didn't report them to various law enforcement agencies. Tactfully, Thompson also avoided dredging up any of the various negative generalizations he has made about gamers over the years, such as our personal favorite, "Nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you're a hit man or a video gamer."

We are still hoping to see full-length video of the debate and a subsequent Q&A session, but have been tracking some of the early reactions by attendees. Destructoid's Jim Sterling live-blogged the debate:

After seeing JT's unvetted Q&A earlier, I don't think this'll be the trainwreck people are expecting. Thompson was level-headed and well-behaved earlier...

JT... calls GamePolitics his favorite videogame site. [GP: LOL]

"We are getting to the point where we will understand that adult-rated games are just as harmful as seeing two naked people have intercourse"... "I'm the pro liberty, pro personal choice guy here..."

[JT said] that he got disbarred because he went on 60 Minutes but he'd do it all again.

The normally cynical Sterling, who appears to have sipped liberally from Thompson's Kool Aid, was even more complimentary toward the disbarred attorney in his coverage of the SGC09 Q&A session:

I think Jack Thompson did an amazing job yesterday. I don't agree with all his views, and I certainly disagree with the way he's put them across over the years. I think everyone who watched him yesterday will agree, however, that if he continues the rest of his crusade in the polite and intelligent manner with which he carried himself at SGC, he really wouldn't be such a bad guy to have around.

Overly Positive offers its impressions of the debate:

It seems the audience left the presentation and Q&A with at least a small amount of respect for Jack Thompson, not just for making his points in a rational manner, but for showing up at all. It seems that even if this is to some cynics a desperate grab for relevance, that Thompson honestly believes that presenting his side of the video games violence debate is worthwhile.

SCG09 attendee Sean Hinz also live-blogged the debate.

GP: I caught Thompson's debate performance at VGXPO 07. He is, as described by various SGC09 attendees, an engaging speaker. If he behaved that way all of the time he would almost certainly still have his law license and might still be an effective advocate for his cause.

UPDATE: More in the vein of the Miami Jack we remember here at GP, Thompson e-mailed his reaction to our coverage:

Dennis, pay attention, you might learn something:
 
1.  The comment about GP being my favorite game site was a joke, and everyone knew it.  That's why the laughter.  Not a lot of folks there care for you or GP.  
 
2.  I got about a 60-second standing ovation after the Q & A.  Did you talk to Craig, who is the head of ScrewAttack, about his impression of me? [GP: we did send Craig an e-mail inquiry this morning; no response so far]
 
3.  I don't need advice from you about how to be effective. I'm the guy making a difference not you, and it bugs the Hell out of you.


Comments

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Well, I've written up a few comments regarding the debate.  My original source was at Examiner.com, who got a few points out of order.  I looked at the Destructoid live blogging and it looks like Examiner made a bit of a copy, but missed a few lines that would have made the two problems make sense.

1.  Examiner implied that it was Mark who talked to the APA and they said the results proved causation not correllation.  Which was confusing.  But Destructoid had it correct that it was John Bruce who made the claim.  Not that I would believe him, mind you.  Even if they HAD told him that.

2.  Examiner implied it was Mark that said he was warned not to go to the debate, but Destructoid got it correct that it was John Bruce who said it.

So, ignore those two mentions in the comments below (I was able to cut the second one because it was at the end anyway).

 

4:11 - He says that America is the only nation in the world that continues to sell games to kids despite having age ratings, which is basically an admission of wrongdoing.

[Rebuttal: A false claim. The age ratings are NOT restriction policy settings. They are informational recommendations. Many products have age rating recommendations. They are not always grouped as the ESRB, MPAA, or TV ratings are, but they are still there for suggestions. Many toys, for example, have a "For ages xx & up" rating.]

4:11 - He believes that if video games are not dealt with properly, we'll see a "significant retraction of liberty" like what has happened with Germany and its game bannings.

[Rebuttal: This "retraction of libery" is caused by fearmongering, misinformation, lies, and deceit in the name of "Protecting the children!" as well as in the name of dictating to others what is or is not appropriate for other individuals or their children. Only those who wish to create a Dictatorship in this or any other country would use such tactics and threats fo "retraction of liberty".]

4:12 - Destin opens the debate with question 1: "Does violence in games directly affect an individual's behavior?"

4:12 - Thompson states: "It can. It depends on the individual."

4:13 - He concedes that games don't affect everyone the same way, but that psychological tests prove that there is causation when it comes to violent games and aggressive behavior in teens

[Rebuttal: Do a search for John Bruce "Jack" Thompson and read many of his public comments, interviews, and "Press Releases/letters" and you'll find he's actually contradicting himself here. In fact, this isn't anything new. For him to say one thing in one venue then another thing in another venue, most often to try to gain points with an uninformed audience, in part or whole.]

4:14 - He mentions Daniel Petric, the Halo teen who shot his mom and dad, killing the former.

4:14 - Thompson brings up the judge's comments about Petric's Halo addiction: "If you hadn't played these violent games I don't think I'd have ever met you."

[Rebuttal: Do research on this case. You'll find that the judge admitted that (1) The "experts" introduced in the actual case did not prove that exposure to the game was to blame. He also admitted that it was his personal opinion, not an expert opinion, that the games were to blame. In fact, it could have easily been exposure to any number of things that might have set Petric off. Not just exposure to a video game.]

4:15 - Apparently, games stimulate the mid-portion of the brain in the kids, and the frontal lobes in adults. This means kids are less able to process video game violence properly

[Rebuttal: So much for the "It depends on the individual." previous claim.]

4:15 - "All I'm saying is the industry should be preventing the sale and marketing of these games to kids."

[Rebuttal: If we truly examine the exposure of ANYTHING to any group of individuals, SOMEONE is going to find SOMETHING wrong with EVERYTHING> If exposure can be blamed as causing harm to one person, and we say NO ONE should be exposed to it, then we should all be sitting in soundproof boxes, being fed by robots, pooping and peeing through slots in the chairs we're sitting on, not even being allowed to sleep because of the harm our own dreams could bring us. Excessive and extreme? Sounds like it, but the truth is that any one individual could have a negative experience to ANYTHING for ANY reason. And to prevent that, we must not allow ANYONE to be exposed to ANYTHING. It's the safe thing to do.]

4:16 - Mark admits that perhaps yes, games can affect those already mentally unstable

4:18 - He brings up the fact that other things that can trigger a kid's violent outbursts -- substance abuse, upbringing. He says that law is not governed by what could happen to the minority. We don't make rules about alcohol based purely on what alcoholics do, for example.

4:19 - Mark also mentions that crime is down since video games were introduced. The peak of crime was in 1993, the same year as Doom was released. After Doom, not so much crime.

4:19 - "The sharpest declines of crime in the history of the United States."

4:20 - He argues the correlation argument. He says he spoke to the APA who did the study and that they personally told him the results showed causation and not correlation.

[Rebuttal: That reads reversed. Is it? If he's arguing in opposition to what Thompson is saying, then the APA should have told him that the results showed correlation, not causation.]

4:20 - Thompson uses another of his favorites, that the military used "video games" to train its soldiers

4:21 - "The Military was using Halo to get new recruits to train to be snipers"

[Rebuttal: First off, many experts will tell you that video games do a piss poor job of "training" when it comes to the use of real weapons. Video games are no substitute for live action simulations, which still fail because of the knowledge that they ARE simulations. Secondly, Military organizations have, since the beginning of military organizations, used MANY tactics to encourage voluntary recruitment. Video games are hardly anything new. Even in recent decades, proclaiming to 'see the world" (and shoot the natives), offering financial rewards (from college aid to outright "bribes"), and many other recruitment tactics have been used. Getting them young isn't anything new either. Several branches of the military use classes in high school to encourage recruits. Even though I'm legally blind and have been since conception (inherited condition), I still signed up for driver's ed during my brief stint with public school. I now wish I had chosen the Air Force ROTC instead. Even though I would have probably been kicked out as I was from driver's ed, I think I would have liked it.]

4:21 - Mark makes the rebuttal

4:22 - He says games are used for team building, to help people rapidly identify and remove noise from their field of vision.

[Rebuttal: Many of the games still lack realism. Let's face it, flicking a joystick just isn't the same as merely turning your head side to side. And from what I've heard about a lot of the players on, for example, XBox Live, good team building is far from existing. But who knows.]

4:23 - Destin: "All games have ratings provided by the ESRB. Do you believe parents need more
information provided on the labels?"

4:24 - Destin thinks the government should perhaps use public information services to better educate parents about parental control settings on consoles and the like.

[Rebuttal: Actually, there is a great deal of resources out there already. What individuals and Parents need are more people informing them of where those resources are. They don't need larger labels or more information on them. They just need to actually work to look for the information. Individuals and Parents already take the time to investigate what is or is not appropriate for themselves and their children. From food, neighborhoods where they might live, the vehicles they want to buy or rent, the toys they buy, the safest electronics, good health and life insurances, good doctors and hospitals, and many other things. They have all the resources they need and they work to look that information up. And the same is true of the media that is available to them and their children. It exists. But many claim it doesn't. From industry rated to privately rated. From professional reviews to consumer reviews. It's out there and available. The tin-pot-dictator-wannabes need to stop lying about it not being out there and show people that it is. And not onlly the resources they prefer, but other resources as well
because not everyone will follow the same system.]

4:25 - Thompson's turn. He takes "some of the credit" for the ESRB'S success because "out of fear" they have improved their system.

[Rebuttal: So he openly admits to fearmongering? Actually, rating systems change over time. It's hardly because of him that there may have been changes. Look up the MPAA on Wikipedia and you'll see that even they have changed over the years.]

4:25 - He calls Columbine the "9/11 moment in the culture wars" and mentions how this event helped the game industry get into shape.

4:27 - He brings up the possibility of criminal sanctions for those who sell games to minors, and that Obama has tied games increasingly to obesity. He believes a video game tax is likely due to health concerns, mentions how soda tax is already in the works.

4:29 - He says, regardless of age, you can get a credit card and go to Bestbuy.com to buy any game
you want.

4:29 - He says the industry does not want to do anything about underage sales.

[Rebuttal: Actually, retailers HAVE voluntarily chosen to set up policies regarding selling particular media. Unfortunately, it is quite inconsistant. Some have chosen to set policies only on video games. Some have chosen to including movies and TV shows on DVDs. Some have included books, magazines, and newspapers. But it is inconsistant, even within the media itself. But, see my previous rebuttal regarding protecting people form EVERYTHING as exposure to ANYTHING can be harmful to ANYONE.]

4:31 - Mark addresses Columbine: "Was it really the games that caused Columbine, or was it the other factors?" He brings up the isolation, the school's lack of involvement, the oblivious parents. Can't easily be tied to one particular cause.

4:31 - Thompson: "look, nobody thinks video games turned Kleebold and Harris from good little angels into demons. Life's more complicated than that."

[Rebuttal: There's that contradiction again. He'd just blamed video games for what happened, and suddenly, it's not the video games? The man can't make up his mind.]

4:32 - He says, however, that every incident like this nearly always involves some form of violent entertainment.

[Rebuttal: Except the ones you ignore and/or can't make up a video game or other media excuse for. For example, a shooting at E. O. Green school in Oxnard, CA back in February of 2008 seems to have slipped by his repeated "video games made him do it" tirades on national TV, such as on FOX News. Perhaps because the victim was homosexual and John Bruce has made public repeatedly his religious bigotry against homosexuals. So, he remained oddly silent this one time. (This case, as many others, can be found on Wikipedia as well as many other Googled resources.) Or, how about Cody Posey, who John Bruce claimed was influenced by a video game to kill his father, step mother, and step sister. Of course, we should forget the fact that Cody's father was granted custody of Cody after Cody's mother died, even though Cody's father had previously been charged with abusing him and had given up Parental Rights previously. And the fact that Cody had, after having gone to live with his father and step family, suffered a great deal of verbal, mental, physical, and near sexual abuse by his father and step family. Nah, video games made him do it, according to John Bruce. Or how about the 2007 YWAM and New Life Ministries shootings by Matthew J. Murray. Though he was 24, John Bruce never held an age limit when it suited him, such as a couple of college shootings such as VTech or the NIU shootings. But, in the case of Murray, he remained silent. Perhaps it was because many in the religious community blamed his "Anti-Christian" beliefs, though research would show that Murray believed HE had been abused for at least a decade and a half as a child by his very religious Parents and that the abuse was justified by those religious beliefs. I guess facing the possibility that he'd come under fire for advocating abuse in the name of religion was a bit dangerous to blame video games or other media for in this case.]

4:33 - Destin: "Do you believe stiffer penalties should be given to retailers who sell games to minors?"

4:34 - Thompson: "Sure, for there are no penalties right now. Absolutely none." He says the US is the only country not to punish retailers.

[Rebuttal: Actually, that's a lie for those retailers who are members of certain Merchant Associations who require their members to have certain policies. But then, see the preivous rebuttal regarding policies and their inconsistancies.]

4:34 - He says how he'd sting Best Buy by sending his son in to buy M-rated games. Apparently his son was called "The Stinger."

[Rebuttal: On the day of the release of GTA IV, a Tuesday, John Bruce sent out an email to a variety of sources claiming he had evidence. Which implies that he'd performed one of those stings. Oddly enough, in a following "Press Release", he changed the date of this so-called "sting" to a Saturday. Could it be that John Bruce, in fact, in his zeal pulled his son out of school, using a false excuse, to perform this "sting" on the release date? Does that mean his crusade is more important than his son's education? After all, it isn't the first "sting" he's done. In addition, rest assured that john Bruce will ONLY speak about the "success". He won't mention failures. Of course, it's not likely he's even telling the truth as he's been known to lie and deceive on MANY occasssions.]

4:35 - He criticizes the Boston Mayor for joining the ESRB without making it work

[Rebuttal: The ESRB works as it's supposed to, as mentioned previously. Politicians need to get behind informing individuals and Parents of the resources that ARE available to them so they can make informed decisions, rather than being dictated to.]

4:36 - He seems to be hinting here that the ESRB is luring parents into a false sense of security, just looking like the problem is solved when it it is not.

[Rebuttal: No, the ESRB is one of MANY resources available to individuals and Parents to make informed decisions. They do not pretend to be the end-all-be-all solution that you FALSELY claim them to be.]

4:37 - Mark brings up personal responsibility, says it got America where it is and that parents are not paying nearly enough attention to kids like they did before.

4:37 - "You need to keep parents accountable for the kids."

[Rebuttal: We also need people who really are in-the-know to actually inform those individuals and Parents who aren't in-the-know about the resources that ARE available to them. As mentioned before, individuals and Parents use various resources to make decisions in other areas of their lives, and they have the resources to make decisions as to what is or is not appropriate for them and their children in regards to various media as well.]

4:38 - Thompson says responsibility extends to CEOs like Take-Two chairman, Strauss Zelnik. That he should not be marketing games to kids.

4:39 - He stresses the point that punishment is not in place for M-rated games sold to minors, but there is such punishment for R-rated movies. He busts out the "murder simulation games" tag here, too.

[Rebuttal: What I find hilarious here is that he routinely falls back on Take-Two, one of MANY companies that make computer/video games. Perhaps that's because some companies specialize in certain types of games. Some tend to be lower ratings for a larger audience. Others focus on more complex games that were designed for older people. Moreover, he points the finger at the Parent company of Take-Two, yet examination of Take-Two shows that they own a number of other companies who focus on games that AREN'T limited to the older crowd. Or aren't limited to the more complex games. Some are sports based. Some are strategy based games. And so on. His implication that Take-Two ONLY sells games like GTA is false and misleading because they offer a wide selection to many tastes. In addition, there are, in fact, little to no punishments for selling rated R movies, let alone unrated movies, to minors. His claim, as many of his claims are, is yet again false. In fact, many retailers don't even have policies regarding the sale of rated R or unrated movies to minors. And that's across the board from general retailers to specialty stores that sell only media products like movies.]

4:39 - "We are getting to the point where we will understand that adult-rated games are just as harmful as seeing two naked people have intercourse."

[Rebuttal: Truth be told, it's only "harmful" if you've raised your children in an atmosphere of viewing it as harmful. The nudist lifestyle isn't for everyone, for example. But they have been rasied with a different view of life and have not been "harmed" in the manner that those who have been raised with far different views might believe. The "harm" may be brought about more from the way the individual was nurtured, rather than from their very nature.]

4:40 - Mark says that parents are allowed to give kids beer, or let them see R-rated movies if they give permission, and that enforcing games in such an oppressive way takes the decision away from kids.

4:40 - Thompson cuts in, saying kids buying games when parents are nowhere in sight is nothing like letting a kid have a beer at home. It's behind the parent's back.

4:41 - "If the kid's are left unsupervised, why are they being left unsupervised? And why don't they have parental controls?"

[Rebuttal: And yet, whether through policy or legislation, there will STILL be loopholes. Minors will find a way to obtain that which they seek and which is prohibited. The same as with tobacco, alcohol, even drugs. Having an adult, relative or friend, with them is one way. Even talking a stranger who is of age is also another. Borrowing from a friend or relative or using something at the home of another relative or friend is also a way around the policy or legislation. The truth is, you solve nothing with such supposed restrictions. Knowledge is far more powerful. Informing Parents of what controls they really do have. Informing them of the resources available to make informed decisions. Encouraging them to talk with their other relatives and friends about what they do or don't want their children to have access to (and encouraging others to abide by the wishes of the child's Parents, even if they don't agree with them). And so forth.]

4:41 - Destin: "Do you feel government legislation is necessary to protect children."

4:42 - "Worrying about, as a government, what game's being brought home and whether the parent's put parental controls on? The government has better things to be concerned with." Mentions there are better things to spend our tax dollars on than a further bloated system.

[Rebuttal: Exactly. And see the prior rebuttal about protecting everyone from everything. As well as those who wish to create a Dictatorship in this country.]

4:44 - Thompson: "Here's what's gonna happen. It's happened in Germany. Germany has had so many school shootings linked to games, that they are having a total ban on these games. I may be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, I'm portrayed as someone who delights in V-Tech. Believe me, I wish these things never happened ... but there is going to be an event in this country that's worse than Columbine, it's gonna be by a young person (who imitates games), and when that happens, Congress is gonna pass a law banning these games altogether if it's bad enough."
[Rebuttal: Once again, the contradiction of "games are to blame for everything". The boy can't make up his mind. BTW, he stopped short. He should have said "... so many school shootings linked to games by fearmongering, misinformation, lies, and deceit..." And, of course, he rants on about video games being to blame just so he can, in fact, support legally banning the things HE doesn't like.]

4:44 - "And the industry will say 'How did this happen?' It's because they didn't listen to me, or others, who warned them."

[Rebuttal: No, everyone will know how it happened. Because Anti-American, Anti-US Cosntitutionalists, believing that lies, deceit, fraud, misinformation, and Theological Dictatorships are moral and should be the way this, and other countries, should be run. We'll know that traitors to the US, the US Constitution, and the citizens of the US will have subverted the US Constitution for the purpose of creating a Theological Dictatorship in this country. And not just because video games were banned. But because of the overall efforts to subvert the First Amendment by actually violating the establishment of respect for one religion's beleifs over all others. Because THAT is the foundation of the argument. Not "violent video games are bad" or even "Protect the children!", but that "OUR morals are superior to everyone else's and should be what this country should be run on. Whether it's what books, music, games, movies, TV, discussions, religious beliefs, education systems, or whatever the citizens are exposed to, it must ONLY be approved by OUR version of morality. Everything else is immoral and harmful." Video games are just ONE battleground. And with the loss of each and every battle for Freedom, more and more risk being lost. This is why it is so important to fight each and every battle. Because the loss of even ONE specific battle for the Rights of each and every citizen is the strengthening of the opposition. Deny a Right here, and another has a greater chance to falling. Protecting the Right here, even if loosing it doesn't immediately affect you, means that future challenges to the Rights of citizens will be better.]

4:45 - He brings up how tobacco companies lied about how harmful their products were, even though they knew otherwise. Says the industry is engaged in "fraudulent" activity.

[Rebuttal: Look who's talking. There are MANY cases where John Bruce has lied and deceived, thereby committing fraud. Take one example: Look up the video game Bully. John Bruce openly and publically admitted he contacted Federal agencies that the game contained "gay sex". What intimate contact does the game have that might be construed as sex of any kind? Kissing. The character, a male, kisses a boy. Of course, he also kisses a girl and part of the story is to establish a relationship with that girl. The game also requires you to make friends with other males (the location of the story is an all-male school for troubled youths). Each mission brings you from being an enemy or hated to a more friendly status with those you are exposed to. Though you aren't required to reach the level of kissing the male classmates, it is possible. But that's it. If kissing is sex, then why isn't there a complaint that kissing the girl is "straight sex"? Of course, as the song goes, "A kiss is just a kiss". And, perhaps with a few tiny exceptions, there are NO laws in the US that make consentually kissing a sexual offense.]

4:46 - Mark says that in America, you couldn't ban a form of media.

4:47 - Brings up rock music, D&D, comics, all of which "ruined America" and none of which were banned.

4:47 - "Our freedom of speech rights are such that, just because somebody does something stupid with what you put out there, doesn't mean you don't have the right to put it out there."

4:48 - Thompson: "Liberty is not unlimited, it is constrained by virtue," he quotes.

[Rebuttal: I prefer: Liberty is not unlimited, it is constrained by consent. Liberty of the whole constrained by the preceived virtue of one individual is a Dictatorship.

4:48 - "The fact is, we've gotta be concerned about a corrosion of the public square and public morays because they lead to all sorts of untoward events, including the retraction of liberty."

[Rebuttal: See the previous rebuttal. You've just admitted that you support a Dictatorship in this country based on the personal, religious, and/or political beliefs of one person. If you actively set that into motion, that should be considered treason.]

4:49 - Destin: Do you believe games are an easy scapegoat.

4:49 - Thompson: "Apparently they aren't so easy. I think it's something people take seriously, as evidenced by you people being here today."

[Rebuttal: Actually, the fact that they ARE scapegoats and have been used as scapegoats, especially by John Bruce (which is why HE is there), is why the debate even exists.]

4:50 - He states, "We're a strange nation. We celebrate individual freedom probably more than any other country, yet we are an intensely religious people. We recognize there is such a thing as right and wrong. In Europe, you have more of an existential view. In America you celebrate free enterprise. Some of the people in the game industry are incredibly bright, intelligent people who I couldn't hope to hold a candle to.

[Rebuttal: The argument that we are a religious people is, of course, false. But it proves that the type of Dictatorship that John Bruce wants in place should be a Theological Dictatorship with a specific religious (his own) foundation. In addition, right and wrong are NOT exclusively religious ideals. One can, in fact, reach right or wrong without a religious foundation. In fact, one can even have faith without religion. Faith in one's self. Faith in others around you. Faith in the things around you as well. One does not need to worship a supreme being to have faith.]

4:52 - He says it's not an easy scapegoat, that he got disbarred because he went on 60 Minutes but he'd do it all again.

[Rebuttal: :/ Oh, puleaze! I'll let you folks do the research. There's plenty, including the actuall court documents regarding his disbarment. Not to mention a great detail about his pretty pathetic career. He ruined his own career and didn't need help from anyone to get where he is. Also, there have been people who have obtained the publically available transcripts from his various TV appearances, including the 60 Mintues transcripts, and they weren't as powerful as he has repeatedly falsely claimed. While those transcripts can't be generally published, it shouldn't take too much effort for those seeking them to obtain them from their sources. So it wouldn't benefit me to lie regarding them. I suggest you research along these lines yourself.]

4:52 - He regrets he'd never done enough. "It's a fight worth fighting."

4:52 - "There are people of goodwill who disagree with me, like Mark. But it's not for he and I to decided. it's up to you to decide if my arguments have any merit."

[Rebuttal: Nice butt kissing. But the FACT is that you DON'T want it limited to individuals and Parents making up their own minds. You want to have your beliefs forced on others through dictated policy and legislation. That's the point where you cross the line from merely expressing your opinion to attempting to subvert the US Constitution to create a Theological Dictatorship in this country.]

4:53 - Mark says this issue can be resolved by the free market system. That if we don't like certain media, we can just stop buying it.

4:53 - "The quality of pop culture is ultimately decided by the people who consume the pop culture, not who make it."

4:54 - Thompson: "I reject the motion that the market determines what society's morays will be."

[Rebuttal: So do I. Society's morays decide what the market makes available. Whether it's a direct reflection of the preception of some individuals of what is happening in reality (such as some music genres like gangsta rap), or the preception of some individuals to fictionalize what is or what could be in reality. The latter takes place in a great many ways, as it is, in fact, fictional based. Some individuals decide that what is portrayed in fiction or non-fiction is what should actually be in reality. Others work to fight against it or work to prevent it from being. Both open our eyes to what is and what could be. They open our eyes, as well, to what SHOULD be and what SHOULDN'T be. And each individual makes those decisions for themselves, rather than being dictated to regarding either. It's the differnece between indivdiual Freedom and a Dictatorship.]

4:55 - He says there needs to be someone to hold a mirror to society and say they are headed the wrong way. He says in biblical times we had prophets, but we don't have them now.

[Rebuttal: The problem is that the mirror YOU want to force people to look into is one of the warped funhouse mirrors that make people see the world YOUR way and YOUR way alone. And if they DON'T see it YOUR way, then they are headed the wrong way. The prophets that were recorded were "right", while the prophets who were not recorded were "wrong". But only based on the writer's preception. Moreover, the prophecies were always interpreted to be whatever the prophet or even the receiver of the prophecy wanted to preceive. Much in the same way that "God" seems to magically believe what the follower believes, even though there are many followers who have differing, even contradictory beliefs. Oddly enough, "God" seems to believe and want ALL those beliefs, even the ones that contradict. Isn't preception and interpretation a wonderful thing?]

4:55 - He says it's hypocrisy for the industry to say video games have no effect on people, while spending millions of dollars to influence consumers to buy their products

[Rebuttal: The argument is misleading. The media itself does not uniquely affect individuals. As mentioned before, EVERYTHING can affect individuals. Depending on the individual, any one thing may have a positive, negative, or neutral effect. And it may be to varying degrees. But the money spent on marketing influences sales, not the effect of the product on the individual. The marketing affects desire to obtain, not the other factors which are being claimed the product affects.]

4:56 - Mark says "I don't think there's anything so unique about the video game media that it influences anybody more than any other medium."

4:56 - Destin: "What is an acceptable level of violence in games?"

4:57 - Mark doesn't think there is a game out there that even rivals certain movies like Saw.

4:57 - He then defends Saw from the crowd, says the plot was pretty good.

4:57 - "You can't even say that violence has gotten out of control in the game industry by itself."

4:58 - He says there are classic books that include all sorts of violence, like Dante's Inferno or the Bible. Mark's argument is pretty much that games are not that violent.

4:58 - Thompson: "Does anybody in this room have a problem with a 14-year-old being allowed to buy a copy of Grand Theft Auto and being able to have sex with a prostitute?" A lot of hands raise.

[Rebuttal: Again, the use of misinformation to obtain a false response, much like the so-called studies he repeatedly rambles on about. GTA is a product of fictional content. The activities that take place in it are fictional. "Sex with a prostitute" within the game requires the player to cause their fictional character to interact with another fictional character. It does not involve the interaction of the real player with another real indviidual. This is the core of being able to tell the difference between reality and fantasy. Let's ask this: Does anyone think a 14 year old should have the Right to fantasize about having sex with ANYONE? It's as "real" as doing it in GTA. In fact, it's more real than doing it in GTA because the 14 year old having the fantasy has placed themselves in the fantasy, as opposed to the fictional character in GTA. Does that mean that, then, mean that it should be ok for a 14 year old to go out and have sex with just anyone, prostitute or not? If we follow the idea of the Rights of minors and their Right to consent (the overall argument on this should be saved for a seperate discussion), then no. Yet, in fictional settings, how can we, or should we, legislate such?]

4:59 - He believes the sex and violence in Grand Theft Auto is a problem for 14-year-olds, but not for adults.

[Rebuttal: Adult happily and heartily puffing away on a couple of cigarettes, chain smoking away, looks at kid and says "Don't smoke kid, it's bad for ya." Uh huh.]

5:00 - "The sex and violence control parts of the brain, brain mappers tell us, are interconnected. If you stimulate one, you are stimulating the other. That's why rape is a sexual act and also an act of violence. Japanese soldiers in WWII were told to commit incredible acts of violence and then given Geisha girls to connect the act of sex and violence."

[Rebuttal: That comment about rape being a sexual act and also an act of violence should be sent to
one of those groups, like the one that spoke out against the computer game RapeLay. I seem to recall a great many victim's Rights groups arguing that rape had nothing to do with sex and was all about control. Be that as it may, he's continuing the misinformation tactic by attempting to confuse reality and fantasy (fiction). Perhaps he has a problem telling the difference. Wonder if the so-called expert who did the mental evaluation on him, Dr. Wunderman, knows this. Of course, Dr. Wunderman also commented that John Bruce's dishonorable, unethical, and even bigotted attitudes and actions were those of a well-balanced religious individual. Makes you wonder why people aren't demanding legislation to "Protect the children!" from the religious community. Of course, the First Amendment prevents it, and rightly so. The government cannot, according to the First amendment, establish respect for one religion over another. Of course, to "Protect the children!", we'd have to create legislation against ALL religious beliefs and organizations. Even the ones any one of us might consider honorable, ethical, and truly moral.]

5:01 - He also says that Ted Bundy called pornography a "training manual" for how to inflict pain on victims

5:02 - Mark wants a show of hands: "How many people have a problem with a 14-year-old playing a GTA given to them by a knowing parent?"

[Rebuttal: I don't have a problem with it. If the Parent is knowledgeable, has examined all the resources, then why shouldn't they be allowed? They know themselves and their own children far better than anyone else. Nor do I ahve a problem with those who DON'T let their children play such games. Or who don't play the games themselves. Why should I? That's their choice. And I don't condemn them for it either way.]

 

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Proving the Metropolitian Moron of Miami wrong never gets old even if he's been saying the same old crap.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

I liked seeing "Rebuttal:" in your posts, it reminds me of HK-47 and the other HK droids in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2.

"Query: What do you mean, Master?"

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate


4:57 - Mark doesn't think there is a game out there that even rivals certain movies like Saw.

There will be, once "Saw: The Game" is released.  (And yeah, it's been announced.)

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

EEEEEKKKKK!!!!!!   NOVEL! 

:: Hides in bunker for safety. ::

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Damn. You just went clear of all other contenders for the Longest Post of the Year Award (worth 250 ECA Gift Shop points towards the purchase of a GP bobblehead).

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

JT would have had it with the 35-page court document he posted last week if I hadn't deleted it and the rest of his posts.


Andrew Eisen

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

The award only goes to relevant on topic posts.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

I'm continually amazed that Thompson is not called on more of his lies.  (Of course, the below comes from a live blog and not a transcript so it's possible Thompson was misquoted or his statements were taken out of context.)

"He says that America is the only nation in the world that continues to sell games to kids despite having age ratings, which is basically an admission of wrongdoing."

So, not having a law that everyone else has (which I'm certainly not taking Thompson's word on) automatically puts the US in the wrong?  Absurd.  Besides, while it's not law, almost every retailer has it as policy and according to the FTC is doing a darn good job of enforcing it (better then other comparable industries, in fact).

"He says he spoke to the APA who did the study and that they personally told him the results showed causation and not correlation."

Doesn't matter.  The APA study does not say "direct causal link."  It says "studies suggest an increase."

"He says, however, that every incident like this nearly always involves some form of violent entertainment."

Actually, no. According to the US Secret Service, 59% have an interest in violence but there was no common type of interest.  27% liked violent movies, 24% liked violent books, 12% liked violent video games, and 37% liked violence in their own writings (poems, journal entries, etc.).

"JT says responsibility extends to CEOs like Strauss Zelnik. That he should not be marketing games to kids"

He's not and despite repeated requests, Thompson has yet to come up with one example.

"He stresses the point that punishment is not in place for M-rated games sold to minors, but there is such punishment for R-rated movies."

Hope he's not talking law because it's not illegal to sell a ticket to an R-rated movie to a minor.

"psychological tests prove that there is causation when it comes to violent games and aggressive behavior in teens"

Nope.  There is no proof.  The nearly dozen failed game laws may have been successful if there were.

"...adult-rated games are just as harmful as seeing two naked people have intercourse..."

As stated by someone else, that's not harmful.

"If some parent is dumb enough to buy an inappropriate game for their kid, that's their lookout, but it cuts out the liability of the industry."

It's okay for parents to let their kids play games that harm them?  Sounds pro child abuse to me.

"[JT said] that he got disbarred because he went on 60 Minutes..."

Nope, he was disbarred for 27 counts of professional misconduct including lying and harassment.

"He says it's hypocrisy for the industry to say videogames have no affects on people, while spending millions of dollars to influence consumers to buy their product"

Big difference between causing people to act violently and influence their purchasing decisions.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

There are a lot of countries where sex with little boys is perfectly legal, so comparing the United States to other nations as it relates to child welfare is not apt in any way.  As far as his claim of psychological tests proving causation between violent games and aggressive behavior, I want a link to his studies.  I want to see these studies, see how big the sample was (to determine if there was even a large enough random sample (which I doubt; for the US alone, you'd need about a half million teenagers at least)), if there was an accurate control group, find out who funded the study (as biased groups will almost always end up affecting results (looking at you, tobacco industry)) and find out how long the study was done for.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Don't bother asking him for them, he'll just tell you to look them up yourself.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Lithuania, Prague, Iran, Uzbekistan.  Those are just off the top of my head.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

I meant asking Jack for those studies. Every time someone has asked, he told them to look it up themselves.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Thompson was only so calm, because he thought the gamers there could snap at any moment and kill him, so he didn't want to say anything to set them off.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Thank god the Angry Video Game Nerd wasen't at the debate then :P

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Lol.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

"GP: I caught Thompson's debate performance at VGXPO 07. He is, as described by various SGC09 attendees, an engaging speaker. If he behaved that way all of the time he would almost certainly still have his law license and might still be an effective advocate for his cause."

Pretty much this, but I'm sure once he's not debating anybody and not in full view of a bunch of people, he'll go back to his old ways.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

BRB, I just saw a pig fly past my window.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Exactly how harmful is seeing the act of sex, something that WE ALL OWE OUR VERY EXISTIENCE TO, so harmful to anyone?  I doubt a child will go on a killing spree if they happen to see sex- something they probably don't understand anyway. Christians are so irrational.

This entire Jack thing is crap and the fact ScrewAttack actually paid this piece of garbage for anything is sad.  Jack behaving himself for one day (of course his usual drama welled up days before) DOES NOT absolve him of the horrible things he has said and done over a period of YEARS.

Jack's entire premise is irrational (that games turn normal people into mass murderers) and his constant desire to have Christian values dictate everyone's lives is idiotic and wrong.  I don't want my entertainment decisions to be dictated by the whims of people who think the universe is 6000 years old. 

By Jack's logic during this little "debate" (LOL), the government has a moral responsibility to regulate religion- God forbid another September 11th happen.  See what I did there?

Fuck Jack Thompson and to hell with ScrewAttack.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

It's quite common for young children witnessing sexual activities to come across a moral dilemma, not to mention that setting up a situation where a child would witness sexual activity is highly illegal.  However, as I have mentioned many times, it is the parents' responsibility to make certain that their children know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, and fantasy and reality.  If, as Hillary Clinton once said, it takes a village to raise a child, that village cannot replace the parents of that child.  It all starts with responsible parenting.

Which makes me wonder how good ole' Jacky-boy's parents were (by my own definition, and judging by his behavior, I'm guessing not so much).

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Putting a child in a situation where they would witness sex is illegal true, but you mean you haven't had you kid walk in to your bedroom after having a nightmare or something while your doing your impression of the two backed beast? It happens no matter what ya do.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Legality =/= morality though. If we weren't so obsessed with treating sex as if it didn't exist, it'd be perfectly normal and accepted in our society, like it basically is in Japan.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

And, again, that starts with parenting.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

"We are getting to the point where we will understand that adult-rated games are just as harmful as seeing two naked people have intercourse"

 

I agree, it causes no harm at all, when put into the proper context.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

That was my first thought, lol.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Hell, even out of context it's not that big an issue. Show me one 14 year old who thinks that the people in the porn video are in a commited relationship (all 4 of them) and I'll show you a kid who didn't get taught the difference between fantasy and reality.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

And who's responsibility is it to teach children the difference between fantasy and reality?  Their parents.  If he would be an advocate for parental education of the content of video games, telling people to take an active interest in the kinds of games their kids play, I wouldn't have so much of a problem with him.  Instead, he's trying to either make the industry create games in his image, or destroy the industry entirely.  Not the way to go, in my opinion.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

He's a petty little man with petty little issues and he wants to raise our children for us through the government.

I bet he was oh-so charming.. but then.. Mythbusters proved you CAN polish a turd.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

you can polish a turd but it's still a turd.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

I have my doubts about Thompson´s behavior. Yes, he can be "charming", but I can´t just forgot every thing he done in the past for just some minutes acting rational. Why he can be like this all the time? He even get some laughs from the audience.

Instead, he often acts like a schoolyard bully. This is a typical case of Dr. Jekill & Mr. Hyde kind of personality. Is like a convict waiting for his appeal on his sentence. "Look at me, I´m a good man. I won´t do harm again. I´ll even tell where I hide the bodies, lol".

 

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Jackhole's behavior is 100% consistent with his mental illness.

You have to realize that he suffers from narcissistic egomania or narcissistic personality disorder, whichever you want to call it.

Typical behavior is buttkissing and charming people who are "with you", and mercilessly attacking, bullying, backstabbing and lieing about everyone who are "against you". And by "against", I mean simply disagreeing with him.

Anyone who dares expose his lies, is a mortal enemy for life. Hence his ridiculous campaigns against Dennis.

-- http://pixelantes.blogspot.com/

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

If you so much as say "I do agree with most of your points, however..." You're suddenly his sworn enemy.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Silly Jack he should know of all people we don't have adult video games in the US. We have mature ones.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Jack's feeble mind can't comprehend the difference

岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

 Its amazing talk to people as intelligent human beings and they recieve you better than when you go on a tirade.  I agree if Jack keeps this type of demeanor he will be a better champion for his cause (I don't agree with that cause so im all for him going back to Wacky Jack mode).

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

He sounded pretty rational actually. I was impressed and humbled!

Plus I don't have a problem with preventing 8 year olds getting their hands on GTA 4.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

I don't think anyone does.  That's his problem.  He thinks that gamers don't think about stuff like that, and so he thinks that all gaming is evil.  As a parent, I am very concerned about what kind of entertainment my children take part in, but that is MY responsibility, not his or anyone elses.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Maybe he does know that we agree GTA is bad for kids, but where we are totally disagreeing with him are the tactics to make sure those kids don't get GTA. He just goes on about threatening to sue game companies and retailers. That's just a real life example of "If the only tool you have is a hammer, you treat the whole world as if it were a nail".

GameSnooper

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

He has had many tools at his disposal, and still does, but he continues to go for just the hammer.

Re: Jack Thompson Puts Best Foot Forward at SGC09 Debate

Not anymore, they took away his hammer.

 

Now all he has is hot air.

 

I was so hoping he had turned a new leaf.  But I suppose I shouldn't expect that from the mentally ill.

 

Makes me wonder if I'm the only gamer who pities him for being a bitter sad little man.

(Yes, I bleive thompson needs a psychologist stat.  He's obivoulsy derranged.  And plese, Mr Thopson if you read this make a nasty abrasive comment and prove my point.)

 
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Matthew Wilsonfirst, that crap is wrong. second, isnt this the 3rd time he has quit?08/22/2014 - 12:11pm
Zenhttp://levelsave.com/phil-fish-polytron-doxxed-phil-fish-quits-gaming-sells-fez-polytron/ , https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvnhvz5IIAAAVc5.png:large08/22/2014 - 12:03pm
ZenHere are some links to the story and images. http://playeressence.com/polytron-and-phil-fish-hacked-tons-of-personal-info-leaked/ , https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvnx8sQCIAAwumB.jpg:large , https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvnj_zmCUAAlYWm.jpg:large08/22/2014 - 12:02pm
ZenSo...Phil Fish was apparently hacked on both his Twitter and the Polytron site along with all of his personal information has been given out in a zip file. He has since closed his Twitter and stated that Polytron and the Fez IP are for sale. He wants out.08/22/2014 - 12:01pm
Papa MidnightThe Verge says the sequel to Flappy Bird is nearly impossible. http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/21/6053297/swing-copters-flappy-bird-sequel08/21/2014 - 12:22pm
SleakerPC-Gamer wrote an article on what's going on with the Minecraft stuff: http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/08/21/minecraft-bukkit-team-lead-tries-to-end-development-but-mojang-steps-in/08/21/2014 - 11:55am
SleakerEVE had a high-profile ban today: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/20/eve-online-lottery-site-somer-blink-shutting-down/#continued08/21/2014 - 10:26am
SleakerBut where have all the Ethics gone?08/21/2014 - 9:08am
Sleaker@EZK - one of the bigger things is that since Mojang has owned Bukkit for 2 years now, people contributing to the project have basically been doing work for them pro-bono. On top of never formalizing support. They hid the fact probably to prevent support08/21/2014 - 9:07am
SleakerIf you've played on a server with mods/plugins, you've almost for sure played on a Bukkit-based server.08/21/2014 - 8:56am
SleakerHere's Bukkit's explanation attempt at shutting down due to EULA changes: http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/bukkit-its-time-to-say.305106/08/21/2014 - 8:55am
SleakerEZK - it's the largest server mod for MC, in actuality without it minecraft for sure would not have been as popular (#1 game now).08/21/2014 - 8:54am
SleakerTo the point that it seems they have completely lost what it means to be for-community, and having transparency. Along with dumping restrictive EULA's onto people.08/21/2014 - 8:53am
E. Zachary KnightWhat is Bukkit and why should I care?08/21/2014 - 8:53am
SleakerMinecraft community exploded again today. Apparently Mojang owns all of Bukkit, and never put out a statement saying as such 2 years ago when they acquired them. I have to say, their transition from indie has been rough.08/21/2014 - 8:52am
james_fudgeThere aren't many left in America08/21/2014 - 1:50am
MechaTama31I sure have. Dorky's barcade in Tacoma, WA.08/20/2014 - 5:56pm
Matthew WilsonI have not been to a arcade in years. I know arcades are still big in japan.08/20/2014 - 5:38pm
Sleaker@AE - Ah no it's called GroundKontrol - I was just referring to it as a Bar-Arcade.08/20/2014 - 4:39pm
Andrew EisenStill looking for confirmation that High Moon Studios (dev behind the PS3/360 versions) isn't working on it.08/20/2014 - 4:38pm
 

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