German Gamers Stage Protest March Against Govt. Crackdown on Violent Games
German Gamers Stage Protest March Against Govt. Crackdown on Violent Games
July 8, 2009
We have read some reports of late that German officials have banned the public display of Counter-Strike, forcing the cancellation of gaming competitions.
While information to that effect is sketchy so far, such a ban would be consistent with our May report on the forced cancellation of a LAN event in Stuttgart which featured Counter-Strike and Warcraft III competitions.
German gamers aren't taking these repressive measures lying down, however. An estimated 400 gamers assembled for a June protest march in Karlsruhe. German gamer Matthias Dittmayer e-mailed GamePolitics to let us know that more gamer demonstrations are planned for later this month:
Because of this [censorship] there was the (as far as I know) first demonstration of gamers in Germany with up to 400 gamers. The next 3 demonstration in Cologne, Karlsruhe and Berlin are announced for the 25th of July.
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Posted 02/09/10 at 01:00pm
Valdearg: Story about a Male to Female TG who was expressly told she wouldn't be given a job because she was TG. Its not the main point of the story, but explicit, perfectly legal discrimination like this exists.
Valdearg: Story about a Male to Female TG who was expressly told she wouldn't be given a job because she was TG. Its not the main point of the story, but explicit, perfectly legal discrimination like this exists.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:53pm
Valdearg: Lol, I don't know. It may very well be legal to do so. Though that might able to fall under the "race" restriction, depending on how that point is argued.
Valdearg: Lol, I don't know. It may very well be legal to do so. Though that might able to fall under the "race" restriction, depending on how that point is argued.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:51pm
Valdearg: I don't think they do have any legal recourse. I'll have to dig around, but I seriously believe that if the law doesn't specifically mention Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity, they can still be discriminated against in those 29 states.
Valdearg: I don't think they do have any legal recourse. I'll have to dig around, but I seriously believe that if the law doesn't specifically mention Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity, they can still be discriminated against in those 29 states.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:51pm
Andrew Eisen: Eye color isn't covered either but I doubt it would be considered legal to refuse to hire people with green eyes.
Andrew Eisen: Eye color isn't covered either but I doubt it would be considered legal to refuse to hire people with green eyes.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:48pm
Andrew Eisen: My explanation is longer than the Shoutbox will allow. Suffice to say that while those who are discriminated against do have legal recourse, anti-discrimination law should specifically cite sexual orientation so that there’s no question about it.
Andrew Eisen: My explanation is longer than the Shoutbox will allow. Suffice to say that while those who are discriminated against do have legal recourse, anti-discrimination law should specifically cite sexual orientation so that there’s no question about it.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:42pm
Valdearg: "There is no federal law that consistently protects LGBT individuals from employment discrimination; it remains legal in 29 states, and in 38 states to do so based on gender identity or expression." From the Human Rights Campaign.
Valdearg: "There is no federal law that consistently protects LGBT individuals from employment discrimination; it remains legal in 29 states, and in 38 states to do so based on gender identity or expression." From the Human Rights Campaign.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:40pm
Valdearg: @AE: Why don't you think I'm correct? I know Wiki could be flawed, but as far as it says, its up to date as of June 2009.
Valdearg: @AE: Why don't you think I'm correct? I know Wiki could be flawed, but as far as it says, its up to date as of June 2009.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:39pm
Andrew Eisen: I don't think you're right but I really don't know and don't have the time to find out. However things actually are, it's very clear how they actually should be.
Andrew Eisen: I don't think you're right but I really don't know and don't have the time to find out. However things actually are, it's very clear how they actually should be.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:34pm
Valdearg: "just because there's no specific state level protection for it, doesn't make discrimination right or legal." I would disagree. If there's no laws against it, it makes it perfectly legal. It's definitely not right, but perfectly legal to do.
Valdearg: "just because there's no specific state level protection for it, doesn't make discrimination right or legal." I would disagree. If there's no laws against it, it makes it perfectly legal. It's definitely not right, but perfectly legal to do.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:33pm
Valdearg: Meaning in 29 states, private sector discrimination against gays is perfectly legal.. Sickening.
Valdearg: Meaning in 29 states, private sector discrimination against gays is perfectly legal.. Sickening.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:33pm
Valdearg: 19 states have no protections, and another 10 only have protections for public sector jobs.
Valdearg: 19 states have no protections, and another 10 only have protections for public sector jobs.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:32pm
Andrew Eisen: Well, most businesses have equal rights policies in place and just because there's no specific state level protection for it, doesn't make discrimination right or legal. Still, no argument against adding such protections.
Andrew Eisen: Well, most businesses have equal rights policies in place and just because there's no specific state level protection for it, doesn't make discrimination right or legal. Still, no argument against adding such protections.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:28pm
Valdearg: More information. Apparently, it's worse than I actually thought.
Valdearg: More information. Apparently, it's worse than I actually thought.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:28pm
Valdearg: Check the link. Apparently, its more like 20 states that have no protections.
Valdearg: Check the link. Apparently, its more like 20 states that have no protections.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:26pm
Andrew Eisen: In the US? Not that I'm aware of. Sad if true.
Andrew Eisen: In the US? Not that I'm aware of. Sad if true.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:25pm
Valdearg: @AE: Actually, I think, at least for now, businesses can still discriminate against gays in a few states.. Something like 5 or 8. Its part of why Gay Rights Advocates are in support of the Employee Nondiscrimination Act, or ENDA.
Valdearg: @AE: Actually, I think, at least for now, businesses can still discriminate against gays in a few states.. Something like 5 or 8. Its part of why Gay Rights Advocates are in support of the Employee Nondiscrimination Act, or ENDA.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:22pm
Valdearg: @AE: And that's fine. Official "Church" functions are fine, despite the fact that it's discrimination, it's what I guess I would consider "acceptable" discrimination, despite the fact that I hate to use "acceptable" to define it.
Valdearg: @AE: And that's fine. Official "Church" functions are fine, despite the fact that it's discrimination, it's what I guess I would consider "acceptable" discrimination, despite the fact that I hate to use "acceptable" to define it.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:21pm
Valdearg: What's stopping someone from working with the church to declare a Catholic Corporation, that would retain it's "right" to discriminate against non-Catholics?
Valdearg: What's stopping someone from working with the church to declare a Catholic Corporation, that would retain it's "right" to discriminate against non-Catholics?
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:20pm
Valdearg: Let me ask you this. What defines something as "catholic"? There are Catholic Schools, Churchs, Charities, and even law firms.
Valdearg: Let me ask you this. What defines something as "catholic"? There are Catholic Schools, Churchs, Charities, and even law firms.
Posted 02/09/10 at 12:20pm
Andrew Eisen: Indeed. You can restrict the membership of your private club however you see fit. However, a business can't refuse to hire someone based on sexual orientation.
Andrew Eisen: Indeed. You can restrict the membership of your private club however you see fit. However, a business can't refuse to hire someone based on sexual orientation.
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Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Comments
400 people is not a significant amount. Certainly no-where near enough to convince the vote-chasers to give a damn.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
IT is certainly enough to get people's attention, especially if they are all in one area that is viewable by the public.
Now if they were petitioning, that would be a different story and 400 woukd not be enough.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
Then they also have to convince the public to give a damn about 'mere' gamers, making their objective that much harder.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
One step at a time.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
Actually, Destructoid has a link to an online petition board-thingie. They need 50,000 signatures. I would've signed, but I don't understand enough German to navigate around the page.
Good luck, German gamers! Fight the power!
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Game on, brothers and sisters.
At least some people are showing they are not going to put up with a federal ban. Oh did anyone notices a sign or something with what looks like adam sessler on it at around 1:07 seconds.
I guess i na day or so their prisons will have 400 new residents.
Oh please. They haven't reached that point.
Yet.
Of course they do. This is Germany, everyone has to joke around and compare them to Hitler and Nazis. If any other government or USA state does such stuff, they don't, but this is Germany so it's mandatory at GP.
Well half do...the other half immediately get defensive and start raising the "They're bringing up the specter of Hitler!" whenever anyone criticizes Germany in any way.
Come on, this is getting ridiculous.
I would have gone if i had known about it beforehand. Perhaps they'll manage to get more gamers (say 1000) next time, now that there is at least some publicity.
Every person protesting represents many more who are angry with the government. You'd have to be a fool to think only 400 people are going to be voting against you.
Good for Germany- I wish there was something I could do to help them, but then again it's not my government. Go get 'em!
Now all we need is for this type of counter-activism to take root in Austrailia and I may start feeling better about the future of the civilized world...
Only 400 gamers? They need OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!! To be taken seriously.
http://www.magicinkgaming.com/
Damn, I was going to say that.
Hopefully next time there's a lot more people, as the more you have, the harder they are to ignore, even if they are gamers.
Hopefully these protests can lift some of the bans instead of Germany having to wait for games to stop being the new scapegoat at which point the laws will seem stupid and probably won't be enforced.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
That's if germany ever bothers to;I guess since the country is still going under some minor deals of stress since the aftermath of a school shooting that happened there.
There was only a handful of people at the Boston Massace(spelling?). And again when the British Red Coats met up with militia at Concard, MA.
While gamers are alot less violent, they are making a point. There is much misinformation in each country, but those that see computer games as a rival for their company's future profits. The citizenry of these countries are also pretty ignorant, and seem to by in to causes that have huge and sweeping consequences. In the USA, many laws by Mr. Jack Thompson have been overturned on constiutional grounds. The same may happen for those in Germany, but I do not know enough about the German political or laws to say with confidence.
Maybe in the future, gamers will become a group that politians would want to cater to to get the votes, and maybe increase their election chests.
Hopefully, they'll get more and more protestors by July 25th.
Destructoid has some additional info about the protests:
http://www.destructoid.com/german-gamers-protest-government-s-war-on-videogames-139044.phtml
Apparently, there is now a petition up at the Bundestag's official forum and if 50,000 German citizens sign, authorities are required by law to review and discuss with the people.
Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.
Surely they get can some sympathy in the Reichstag.
Oooo, yay, another Germany story. I'm looking forward to see what part of it GP got wrong.
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Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck
What stands out the most in all of this (to me) is the fact that Germany is so anti-Nazi/Hilter after WW2, doing whatever they can to move on & forget etc. yet by banning things without proof it's actually causing problems, they just creating a whole new fascist culture and ultimately doing exactly what Hitler did?
Don't German politicians realize the degree of hypocrisy in all of this? Besides, what first world government legislates based on conjecture? What a load of crap.
That's what I've been saying all this time. Germany's overcompensating for a violent past that has been imprinted deeply into history books everywhere (well maybe not Iran's or other Holocaust deniers but that's a different topic). I take it as a nation's version of being "born again" zealot...they want to do good after living a life of sin, but take it too far in the other direction so their new life is as extereme as their old one.
GameSnooper