Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game Violence

July 9, 2009 -

Tonight's Penn & Teller: Bullshit! is the much-anticipated episode on video game violence.

The program airs at 10:00 p.m. Eastern/Pacific on Showtime. From the P&T:BS! website:

In episode 703, the duo debunks the theory of politicians and other alarmists that playing video games leads to teen violence by handing over a real semiautomatic weapon to a nine-year-old video game player to see if he becomes a human killing machine.

The promo video at left features a guy who is apparently an anti-game violence campaigner named Chris Cooney. I'll 'fess up that - in nearly five years of editing GamePolitics - I can't remember hearing of the guy, so I'm curious to see what he's all about. This is also the episode in which disbarred attorney Jack Thompson makes an appearance.

If you miss tonight's show, the program will be repeated several times over the next few days.


Comments

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

The last two episodes of season 7 were up within days, so this one will probably be there too.

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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

My money is on JT flipping out and releasing vitrolic emails over this episode, claiming he was mislead about the adenda of the show. 

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

And then they can show the contracts he was likely asked to sign and his case will be screwed, liek like EVERY court case he ever "started" or latched onto.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

I don't have Showtime either. I will have to wait for someeone to post it on You Tube, and I'm sure someone will.

 - Warren

Consumer responsibility is just as important as Corporate responsibility.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

mikedo2007

I wish I had showtime but wait, The PS video store has Showtime shows, I hope they can put up Penn & Teller on there, that would be intresting if I had some money for my PSN I would like to download this. 

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

New episode of Burn Notice at 9, Bullshit at 10.

Sounds like a good night for TV.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Ufortunately I don't have Showtime.  Is there another way to see this?  Between this show and True Blood, I wish I had this channel. 

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Well the last two episodes of the season were up on youtube within days, this one will probably be too, although I'd hurry if I were you, they sometimes have nudity on the show and youtube doesn't allow nudity in their videos.

Oh and showtime put up the last episode (Astrology) for free on the site, although they do censor it there.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Well..you do have the internet.  I'm sure some quick searching will give you want you want.

 

Trevor Gray ganjookie@yahoo.com

Trevor Gray
ganjookie@yahoo.com

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Unless it shows up on YouTube or Hulu(Hulu has the obesity episode), it will be hard to find.

Oh, and True Blood is on HBO, not Showtime.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Hey I have an example for a person running around hitting people with a stick to make them healthy. Its called the medic in Team Fortress for Quake guess he never played that game.  Last time I check they run around and hit their team mates with an axe(stick) to heal them; granted they also can own you with a nail gun and give you a disease with the stick if you are a bad guy(damn blue team). 

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

The only problem with Penn & Teller's Bullshit is that it doesn't ever rise to the level of rational argument.  Many times they are right, but what's the profit for the viewer if there's no convincing argument made for the hosts' point of view?  This show basically just calls people names.  As such, Penn and Teller are no less foolish than the people who they often choose to insult.

If you liked watching bullies beat up defenceless kids on the school playground, Bullshit is probably your cup of tea.  Personally, I'd prefer to see people who ascribe to foolish notions have their ideas challenged rationally.  Calling them names just makes them into victims - and such folks should not be made to look sympathetic.

Penn and Teller's Bullshit wastes everyone's time.  What could be an edifying show instead ends up being just another mindless rant.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Dear Bennett Beeny,

Pretty much your entire post is wrong.

Thank you. ^^

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Just the sort of post I'd expect from a fan of such a vacuous show.  'Short on rational argument' is an understatement.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

I've seen lots of rational arguments made on the show, and for the most part they usually only bring out the heavy insults after they've shown them to be fools, or liars, etc.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

My point is that they undermine any arguments they make by their frequent resort to ad hominem attack.  When they use sophistry to make their point, then they're basically admitting to a weak argument or a lack of intellect.  This is tragic when they're on the right side of an argument, because it makes their whole argument seem frivolous.

I watched the videogame episode, but it suffered from the same problems that made me quit watching.  I'd prefer to see them mount a devastating argument, something which they fail to do EVERY SINGLE SHOW.  Heck, the videogame episode was a perfect opportunity - and for a change they did mount a coherent (though not devastating) argument.  Maybe they've become a little more serious in the couple of seasons since I stopped watching their show.

But the whole 'kid with a gun' thing was just lame - it didn't prove anything other than that the kid is a sensitive child - which you could tell in his first minute on air.  How the kid was allowed to fire a weapon with the butt next to his cheek and not held into his shoulder is a mystery to me - the safety officer simply did not do his job.  Heck, no wonder the kid was crying - he probably either bruised his shoulder or tore open the inside of his mouth.  He's lucky he didn't lose a tooth or break his collarbone.

Many times in the show they simply ridiculed their opponents - that is not a way to convince anyone of anything, and like I said, it's more likely to generate sympathy for the victims of their bullying tactics.

They have a show, which means they have all the power.  They can edit clips any way they like to make people seem more or less sympathetic.  But a good show avoids such self-debasing trickery.  I just wish Penn and Teller would quit turning their show into a deceptive TV magic act and instead focus on the merits of the issues they cover.

I'm not asking Penn and Teller to stop being humorous.  I'm just asking that they quit being assholes who spout bullshit.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Ad hominem is not simply insulting someone it's saying that their argument lacks credibility (or is in some way wrong) due to some flaw in their person.

Calling you an asshole is not ad hominem, saying that you're an asshole therefore your argument loses some (or all) credibility IS ad hominem (by the way I don't think you're an asshole that's just an example).

Also those experiments have been a part of the show since season 1 and they've pointed out they're unscientific at least a dozen times.

I know what you mean though, I wish they would dwelve into more science or general arguments (I'm really disappointed that they didn't freaking mention that circuit courts have rejected the laws Thompson was talking about every time due to lack of evidence of harm caused by video games) and do less ridiculing no matter how funny I think it is. This is why I like the episodes that dwelve into subject matter that more people seriously belivie other than nuts, like recycling, in those they tend to rely less on insults and more genral bashing (which is why I'm looking forward to lie detectors).

Oh and about that gun, the kid didn't wince or grab his face in pain after shooting it, which I think lends credence to the idea that it was emotional shock.

On a related note when did you stop watching and what episodes do you like?

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

"Ad hominem is not simply insulting someone it's saying that their argument lacks credibility (or is in some way wrong) due to some flaw in their person."

But that IS what they're saying.

As for the kid not wincing or grabbing his face, didn't you notice how he's tonguing his cheek right after he takes the shot?  That's exactly what people do when they get hit hard in the mouth, which is what seemed to happen to him.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

"When they use sophistry to make their point, then they're basically admitting to a weak argument or a lack of intellect."

Except they don't do that.  They point out through logical means why the person is wrong, then they lay on the heavy insults.  I again question if you've ever even bothered to watch the show.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...


1. Because part of the show is devoted to comedy

2. Because they only have about 27 minutes to actually show their stuff, not leaving enough time for rational debate.

3. Because if they were to call people swindlers, liars and the like without fully explaining the details behind their position, they could be in a prime position for being sued- the first episode devoted 2 minutes to explaining that calling using words like "bullshit" or "motherfucker", while offensive, is also legally safe as a means for avoiding slander lawsuits.

4. Because they have experts talk for them to enlighten people to the other side of the issue, who are more eloquent and have the research to back up their claims.

5. Because there are many people who can take a joke, laugh, and think afterwards on the issue at length.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

It doesn't matter whether they call people swindlers, liars or motherfuckers - it's still an ad hominem attack, and it is NOT CONVINCING to anyone with more than half a brain.  Actually that's an insult to anyone with only half a brain, as even people with half a brain can see an ad hominem attack for what it is.

If Penn and Teller have insight, then they should use techniques that illustrate the rightness of their argument, rather than undermining it.

As someone else said, John Stewart is much better at combining humour with convincing arguments - and he doesn't have to resort to underhand methods to do it.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Have you ever actually bothered to watch the show?  They have experts from both sides of the subject on each show.  That's what they're there for, to provide the rational support for their overall claim (that the topic of the day is bullshit).

Also, it's hilarious that anyone would point to the Daily Show (which is AWESOME, I'm not saying it's anything but) as being somehow better than P&T BS at providing rationale to support its position.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Actually watch the episode on videogames (youtube has it right now in 3 parts) and make sure to watch the VERY END where they show the 9 year old gamer's reaction to firing a real gun.

What was that about techniques and convincing logical arguements?

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

"Because part of the show is devoted to comedy"

The Daily Show is devoted to comedy, but it manages to present a logical argument in simple, ironic way.

Being a comedian is no excuse for incompetence.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Watch the Gun Control episode, or Food. And laugh. The human race USUALLY has a sense of humor.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

I've seen an episode of bullshit (the one over PETA) and it was pretty informing, and it helped solidify why I hated PETA so much.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

I've never heard of this Cooney person either, but he proved himself to be a moron and he didn't need Penn & Teller's help for that.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

They may have made him up; they do that from time to time. I'll Google him to see if I can find anything on this Cooney guy, but chances are he's a character created for the show.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

This is the first I heard of them inventing opponents, where have they done that?

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

There are a couple of people who believe that the program plants a couple of actors for some sort of comedy relief. I personaly don't believe this since they have never put any disclaimer reguarding this.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Seems unlikely. Not impossible (I'm not saying Penn Jillette would necessarily be above it), but it just seems like the issues they cover do lend themselves to having enough crazies that making up extra ones wouldn't really be necessary. :)

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

I found something but the information is iffy at best. Apparently there is a webpage "created by him" but it looks like it was made with a cheap web editor and there is a picture of a guy with an alien suit that kinda ressembles him physically. Either P&T BS created him or this guy is a bigger whack job that JT.

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

"THE VIDEO YOU ARE TRYING TO WATCH CANNOT BE VIEWED FROM YOUR CURRENT COUNTRY OR LOCATION."

Ahh the impending death of youtube (and others but I'm mostly annoyed with youtube) as a site worth visiting

 

Anyone know a reliable way to circumvent crap like this?

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Proxies.

When I used them correctly, I was able to watch content on the BBC Doctor Who website.  Without them, I get a similar message.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

Hehe, I just tried one to look at this story page, now I get "THE VIDEO YOU ARE TRYING TO WATCH IS CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE. PLEASE CHECK BACK SOON."

Oh well, they don't want me to see it legally...

Re: Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game ...

So it begins...

Personally I can't wait :)  I hope Jack gets a surprise when he watches this as well. I have no doubt that he is going to get picked apart by Penn. I wonder though if Penn is going to address that half of what Jack says are outright fabrications....

 
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Matthew WilsonIf you have not read http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/introducing-steam-gauge-ars-reveals-steams-most-popular-games/ you should. It is a bit stats heavy, but worth the read.04/16/2014 - 2:04pm
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ZippyDSMleehttp://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/04/15/riaa_files_civil_suit_against_megaupload04/16/2014 - 8:48am
ZippyDSMleeEither way you get stagnation as people can not afford the prices they set.04/16/2014 - 8:47am
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james_fudgeUnwinnable Weekly Telethon playing Metal Gear http://www.twitch.tv/rainydayletsplay04/16/2014 - 8:06am
ConsterTo be fair, there's so little left of the middle class that those numbers are skewing.04/16/2014 - 7:42am
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TheSmokeyOnline gamer accused of murdering son to keep playing - http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2014/04/15/21604921.html04/15/2014 - 11:50am
Matthew Wilsonyup, but curent city rules do not allow for that.04/15/2014 - 11:00am
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