ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

July 20, 2009 -

Entertainment Consumers Association president Hal Halpin debuts a new column for Industry Gamers with a look at negative stereotypes of gamers and how such prejudice can be addressed.

Halpin writes:

Combating the negative stereotypes the gaming industry and gamers themselves face is becoming a daunting task. We’ve allowed people to equate gaming with everything from laziness to isolationism and antisocial behavior, when so clearly it’s the opposite.

 

Because we’ve permitted everyone from anti-games advocates (disbarred attorneys included) to the President of the United States of America to perpetuate those fallacies and said and done nothing, we need to take ownership of at least part of that blame; until and unless we speak up and do something about it. It’s time.

FULL DISCLOSURE DEPT: The ECA is the parent company of GamePolitics.


Comments

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

I have always been irked that "video gamers" have been portrayed negatively while "sports gamers" are lauded and emulated endlessly. WTF? I guess Caesar truly figured it all out.

 

Sports - especially team sports, are lame on several levels and sadly enough most if not nearly all the players are not intellectual giants to say the least. However on the other hand most video gamers are top performers in school and likely Mensa member types. It seems to me that society needs to do some serious soul searching and determine what is better for young people as well as adults to emulate in their actions.   

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"The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

I see you guys are keeping EZK and Brett Schenker busy.  Though I must say most of the critism you're throwing at them is unjust.  In fact, its currently pissing me off quite well. They're mature and kept their cool through all these comments.  We'll I'm not totally mature and I'm not going to keep my cool.

I'm a ECA member, (just about to renew my membership now actually), and I'd lie if I said I agreed with everything within the organization.  I'm not a fan of Universal Broadband or Net Neutrality but I didn't let that ruin my relationship with the organization.  I even talked it through with some messages in a respectful manner and received respectful responses.  Sure we disagree on like two things but we both are going towards the same goal and that is to protect video games and gamers.

Now I hear people trying to call Halpin out on not being involved?  That is ignorance at its finest.  I have no respect for anyone who is going to sit there and try to say Hal Halpin isn't there when there comes a need.  First I laughed a bit, then I scrolled down and realized someone was being serious...

Nightwng2000:"Well ECA: WHERE WERE YOU?"  No... no no no... Where were YOU?  Not where is the ECA, where are you within the ECA?  You said it yourself you didn't join because you wanted to see where it went first.  Well, guess what.  If you want it to go somewhere you got to get involved and if you want to be responsible for progress you get involved on some level.  So you were "out there are TRYING to dispute the false claims and misleading information spread by liars and deceivers"?  Out where?  On this blog's comment section?  Busy not being an ECA member?  Where is the ECA's backup?  Or in other words WHERE WERE YOU?  You list all those events... WHERE WERE YOU?  Tell me where YOU were and if you infact were working harder than ANYONE within the ECA I'll kindly shut my mouth.  The ECA isn't some kind of magic machine that works off "I think you're cool so good luck" empty words.  They need members.  They even make it to where THE MEMBERSHIP ACTUALLY PAYS FOR ITSELF.  What is your excuse?  Were you too busy out there in internet land making comments that don't make a fucking difference in society?  Join the ECA and start a fucking chapter if you want something to change.  Or join, take advantage of all the benefits you get from the ECA and let them do the work, because I guarentee you they do a ton of it.  I get e-mails EVERY DAY from the ECA.  I get facebook messages from Brett asking me to push a fucking button to send my congressional representative a letter and/or e-mail.  I put my own comments in there but I technically don't have to.  What the hell?  Where is the ECA?  The ECA is working their ass off, wtf are you doing?

I didn't read through all the comments because honestly I didn't care for a few of them.  First off I got my Amazon codes to work.  ECA isn't involved in fraud and they aren't out to steal your money.  They're out to support gamers and support games.  This isn't exactly the place to air your frustrations about a technical problem that I'm quite certain the ECA would be more than happy to help you out with.  If you want to air frustrations about policy or support of said issue that is fine, but lets not try to call the ECA out and accuse them of fraud.  That is some fucking weakness.

So I've been plenty pissed at Obama lately for talking so much trash about video games ever since he hit the lime light.  He has and there is no denying it.  Why don't we take his advice.  Lets put down the Xbox, pick up our handhelds and show him we're pissed and don't appreciate him putting down video games and gamers the way he has.  At least PROVE to him that gamers aren't lazy and gamers arn't dumb.  Lets not do it with the anger I express here but lets do it in a more responsible manner.  The reason I express my anger here is because I'm not in the public light and I'm irritated as hell at some of the things I've read in this thread.

Sorry for being an asshole, but sometimes its irritating.  And at least I can admit that I'm being one.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

"Nightwng2000:"Well ECA: WHERE WERE YOU?"  No... no no no... Where were YOU?"

Your argument completely flopped over and died here. Rather than address his argument, you call into question the legitimacy of his character... which has nothing to do with his argument. On a philosophical level, this is the equivalent of shooting at the darkness.

I think if people are going to invest their money into something they have every right to know what it's going to be used for, and so far I haven't been impressed. A specific problem for me is that there is no Canadian representation. I get it, the ECA is for Americans, cool... but we could really use the help right now considering the Net Neutrality hearings with the CRTC, our regulating body for television, phone, and internet (though apparently not cell phones... apparently, no one regulates that because the CRTC has said they don't, and I can't find another group that COULD possess that power, let alone actually possessing it).

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

I'm not sure that nightywind2K was calling Hal Halpin or the ECA out for not being involved - at least not in a generalized, undifferentiated sort of way. Rather, nightywind2K pointed to some quite specific instances and areas - I guess they could be called "fronts" - in which a visible presence of the ECA lobbying of behalf of the interests of its constituents was clearly called for but was just as clearly lacking. And, at least from my perspective, some of the points are not entirely baseless. And flipping it back on nightywind2K by calling his own involvement into question does nothing to make his points any more baseless. And deflects what could be well-intended and informative criticism.

For example, the criticism that the ECA was not deeply involved in the efforts to oppose passage of Morley's legislation out in Utah does seem to hold some water. By its own admission, those efforts amounted to not much more than a write-your-elected-officials campaign (which, in my experience, is about one of the most ineffective lobbying tools in a lobbyist's arsenal -- unless you can generate the sorts of numbers of letters which can bring the staff of an elected official's office to their knees under the sheer weight and volume of those letters). Compare that to the efforts of other similarly interested groups who actually sent representatives before the Utah Legislature to offer testimony in opposition to passage (e.g., the retailers and movie theater owners) and that doesn't, in my opinion, say an awful lot on behalf of the ECA. Certainly the response wasn't anywhere near proportionate to the efforts being expended by the proponents of the legislation, who were dragging toothy Alan Osmond up and down the corridors of the State House to meet with Lieutenant Governors and the like and before the Legislature to offer testimony.

I guess I say all of this to say that perhaps nightywind2K wasn't just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole (and if he was, then he's muscling in on my territory and I'll take that trespass up with him separately and at another time) and, perhaps, had legitmate and useful criticsm for Hal and the ECA. And even if illegitimate and useless, I don't think anything he said was born of an ill or mean spirit.  

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Hal is right and this is why I just about want to slap anyone who says we should ignore Jack Thompson and he'll go away. No he won't go away, people like him have an agenda and by staying silent others won't hear the other side. We have partly ourselves to blame for this and may not be in the position we are and may not have had to deal with this kind of bullshit if we had been as aggressive 10 years ago when Columbine happened as we are now. Also we should place the blame on that spineless coward Doug Lowenstein who sat around and did nothing after Columbine while people like Jack Thompson continued to spread lies and misinformation about gamers. Had we had someone more willing to fight running our industry we wouldn't have had to put up with 10 years of politicians and parent groups condemning us and and legislators trying to regulate us.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

We don't really have to worry about JT.  We have bigger fish in the pond.  Obama, the President of the United States of America, has repeatedly been grouping gamers with underacheivers, idiots and worthless members to society.

JT lives ot fail. Let him fail in peace.  We need to worry about the United States Government right about now.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

No matter how much "good work" the rest of us put in, all it takes is one nut with a gun or one fat kid who's parents take him on the news to say he's obese because he's addicted to games.

You can see that in the way the game laws are structured in Australia.  No 18+ rating even though the average age of gamers in Aus is mid 30's.  No matter how employed, married, with well adjusted kids etc you are, one freak will pull down the house on top of you...

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Many more people have done worse to discriminate Videogamers.

Jack Thompson

The people from Common Sence Media

The people from the Parents Television Council

The people from Creating a Commerical Free Childhood.

Some of the US Politicians and Senators. (Yee, Liberman, Clinton among others)

Some Politicians from Germany.

Some politicians from the UK, (Kieth Vass most often from that area)

Some politicians from Tiland.

Some politicians from Australia (Michael Atkinson among others)

Many other people from the news media and Current Affairs shows for blaming Videogames for school shootings, addiction, obesity and other things.

 

Face it, until those people get older and lose their jobs, that is when we gamers can be old enough to take over those jobs and make the world a better place.

 

 

TBoneTony

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

It dose feel the ECA is sitting on the fence and ignores most issues that crop up be it from EA forcing online only for single player games or blizzard abandoning lan play,  silence often speaks loader than words.


If you want my opinion on what you can do its simple when at least 2 issues crop up put out a 1-3 page article bashing the industries movement towards moronic repression of accessibility, after all you guys are rather chummy with the industry and it would be in their best interest if they stopped this foolishness which only proliferates games being cracked and hacked.

 

The occasional sound bites are nice...but sometimes I expect more for the ECA....

 

You open up gaming to more potential consumers by making it open and easily to accesses this means more control; options to bring in PC gamers and people who require to remap a pad out in order to play a game and more options for sound/voice/subtitle and music for those hard of hearing and it means it means you leave behind DRM and offer a service(online account where you keys can be stored, points and stuff traded in for goodies like background pics mp3s,ect).  1 account 1 key this would do more along with key flood blacklisting(IE more than 5 activations a week,30 a month) to handle illicit distribution.

 In the end the more difficult(or costly) you make owning something the less profit you'll make from it.

 


I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

I was thinking about buying a membership into the ECA, but I've been waiting for them to do something useful. So the lobby group passes the buck down... UMM WTF!? Some decent representation going on there... forget this chump. I'm glad I never bought into the lie.

As for the stereotype of immature, childish gamers, I think you need to look at the games. Join an Arma 2 clan for example, and you'll see that typically the maturity is generally better than in a Halo 3 clan. It's just the nature of the games themselves; games that require patience and/or deep thought will attract a more mature audience. Games that require leet skillz and bunny jumping will draw the Halo 3/Counter-Strike audience.

In truth, there is no single cause or solution. There have always been casual games, and they drew in a wide variety of audiences. But somewhere along the line, gaming starting being marketed to younger people. It became a childish act, even though there were more mature games available. Gaming has lived under this stigma because of the industry itself. They cut themselves off from a huge section of the market, and that's ground they're fighting damn hard to try to get back. But more than that... games are suffering the same fate as most forms of media: a very general sense of simplification. A lot of games don't even come packed with instruction manuals anymore to appeal to the widest range of people, but this has caused them to reach a lowest common denominator feel... just like movies and novels.

If the industry digs the games out of the gutter, the more mature gamers will come... and maybe they'll be able to force the people in the gutter to climb out and enjoy a new level of gaming. Honestly, we can't have Gears and Halo clones forever, or I might just go on a rampage.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Flak,

See above for an example of what the ECA and it's supporters have been doing.

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Gamers deserve the negative stereotype because, like it or not, many are indeed immature, idiotic losers. 

Just go into any Gamestop and listen in to some of the conversations that take place there.  Also, just peruse anywhere IRL or on the internet where the console wars are discussed, and you will see nothing but immature stupidity and namecalling.  And that is nothing to say about the homophobes and racist 13-year olds on XBL.  All the cosplayers and obsessive Otaku-level fans aren't doing gamers any favors either- especially if these are supposedly "grown" adults partaking in these things.  These are often the same people who look upon the new "casual" approach to gaming with disdain because they think it means the end of "Mature" games- a concept which is sadly hilarious given how these man-children don't understand how truly immature they are.

And the critical outlets, enthusiast press, and "game journalists" are hardly helping either.  The #1 gaming mag is Game Informer, a fart-joke laden publication written for an assumingly immature audience.  Most gaming websites are also geared for a seemingly sex-starved teenage boy audience chock full of "gamingz hottest girlz" and yet more fart jokes.  And why are gaming podcasts largely just more of the same sex-innuendo puns and man-childish bullshit?

A big reason gamers and the videogame medium itself is stifled is because a big portion of the audience really is comprised of immature losers.  Why is it that when we talk about mature games, it seems to stop and start with naked breasts and decapitated bodies?  Real adult themes have no meaning to those who are not truly adults who even understand that concept.

The videogame audience needs to get out of the Frathouse and into the office before the stigma associated with gamers is gone.  We have a very long way to go until the conversations held at the GameFAQs forums are the exception and not the norm.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

I think people have the right to be immature sometimes because a videogame doesn´t really needs you to be all polite all the time. You are right, because there are many 13 year old in th bodies of grown-up adults who have too much free time and spit curses or insults every 6 seconds.

But many other activities have their own immature crowd, like sports, movies, TV shows, even religion. Not just gamers and otakus.

Ane they are not being prosecuted. We have the right to stay in the frathouse when gaming. The rest of time, we should just behave the better we can.

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

So, cosplaying makes someone immature by default?

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

A grown man/woman dressing up as pretend characters and acting like them in public (and its not Halloween) isn't exactly the most mature activity.  If I were a betting man, my money is on any given cosplayer falling on the immature spectrum.  Are there exceptions?  Maybe.  But my money is on them being a minority. 

I'm not intending any offense.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

My bad. Despite this being an old article, I will say that peopel od need to go let their inner child out.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Thing is, the last generation didn't have the Internet to have arguments on so openly, but you only have to look back in the past as 'Mods vs Rockers' or 'Punks vs Skinheads' to see an excellent example of the fact that the 'modern media' has always caused fracturing and confrontation among those who listen to it. Same with 'PC vs Console' or 'RPG vs RTS' etc.

Same with casual racist/homophobic/sexist stereotyping, I think you'll find that's more a realm of 'people' than 'gamers' in particular, you hear it a lot in game stores because you are in game stores a lot, if you spent a lot of time in a Carpet warehouse, you'd hear the same amount.

As for immature behaviour, well, we've never had such a wide-ranging forum for either exposing people's idiocy, or for being anonymously idiotic, and the same generation that plays games is the generation that posts these comments, I don't actually think the two are connected in any way.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Was it one of those immature losers I saw being interviewed recently on P&T's Bullsh**? The thirty-something year-old guy with the bald-on-top, long-in-the-back mullet? And the Metallica patches sewn all over his vest? Because, as I watched him being interviewed, the first thing that came to my mind was "immature loser."

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

By your argument, the inherent fact that immature losers can be opposed to gamers means that gamers are not immature losers.

These are not mutually exclusive traits.  Its like how the christian zealots are opposed to islamic zealots- they need not be polar opposites to be opposed to one another.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Dear Haplin,

Look no further than http://www.childsplaycharity.org/ which is set up by the excellent chaps over at Penny Arcade to see what kind of people REAL GAMERS are.

Sure there are douchebags all over XBL or any online network ruining things for the gamers. But I submit those are DOUCHEBAGS that just happen to own PC's or Consoles... but not GAMERS. They are definately not GAMERS.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Childs Play Charity is a great example of an excellent positive thing gamers are doing.  We've been showing off their charity on Facebook since we launched our Fan Page.  Some of our chapters have taken to holding fundraisers for charity as well.

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

"Because we’ve permitted everyone from anti-games advocates (disbarred attorneys included) to the President of the United States of America to perpetuate those fallacies and said and done nothing, we need to take ownership of at least part of that blame"

Speak for yourself Halpin.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Hal was addressing the INDUSTRY when it comes to this column.  He's spoken earlier about how the industry has been often silent against it's detractors. You can see how he's said this before, http://www.gamepolitics.com/2007/12/17/ecas-halpin-dont-let-jack-thompso....

 

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

How does who Hal Halpin's addressing relate to the criticism that the ECA hasn't ever, to the best of my knowledge, sought to file an amicus brief in any of the numerous court cases concerning the constitutionality of anti-videogame legislation? Or appeared before any of the legislative bodies considering passage of anti-videogame legislation? Or mounted any serious and sustained anti-videogame legislation lobbying efforts? Nightywind2K makes, I think, a good point. How does pointing to the fact that Hal Halpin is addressing the INDUSTRY in his column begin to speak to the apparent validity of Nightywind2K's point? Regardless of whether we use all-caps or not? 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

See above for examples from myself and EZK as to just some of the things the ECA and it's supporters/members have achieved or spoken out on.

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

As I already said to EZK, all that's great. But none of it speaks to the very case-specific points which Nightywind2K's raises. To use but one of his examples, why no concerted public opposition to Morely's bill before the Utah Legislature or Governor? Interest groups representing manufacturers and retailers lobbyed the Legislature and the Governor while the consumers, who the ECA are supposed to be representing, were left without an organized voice. 

Thank God for Jack Thompson's involvement in that one. If not, the outcome could well have been unfavorable to the interests of the ECA's constituents.      

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

We had our members write to elected officials in both states about both those issues.

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

If that's so, then I'd respectfully suggest that the ECA could stand to step its PR game up a notch or two because I get the distinct feeling that much of its membership is ignorant of those efforts. Not to say that those efforts weren't valuable. Just to say that if your membership isn't fully aware of those efforts, then lack of confidence among the membership is a potential result.

Perhaps you all should borrow a play from Pat Vance's book? Her "open letter" regarding Morely's legislation got the ESRB plenty page space in an assortment of media. Including GamePolitics. I doubt her constituency's grumbling that she ain't did nothing for 'em. 

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Fair enough suggestion and criticism.  And just so I know where we might of missed promoting it, are you on the email list?  Taken part in a past action?  Part of the facebook Fan Page or Group?  Or MySpace friend?  Might, help me narrow down where I dropped the ball in promotion.

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

None of the above. Just a no-life-having loser who spends all his time on GamePolitics so, if nothing else, you can conclude that the ECA's lobbying efforts in opposition to Morley's legislation weren't well-covered within the pages of its own publication. If they were, it certainly wouldn't have missed my attention.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

K, thanks for the feedback.  Dennis chooses what he wants to cover here.  The ECA does not have any editorial control over GamePolitics.  But GP is another good example of something the ECA provides.

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

If the ECA so much as pays their electricity bill, GP covers it.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

That journalistic independence may well be the case - as perhaps it well should be - but I'd still find it difficult to believe that if the ECA had made the same size splash in the pond as Vance's letter did, GamePolitics wouldn't have shown its parent organization the same amount of love it showed Vance and the ESRB. Moreover, if the ECA can't rely on parental influence to ensure coverage of its lobbying efforts in GamePolitics, then that's all the more reason to make sure that those efforts are somehow undeniably "newsworthy." I'm not entirely sure that "ECA Urges Membership to Write Legislators" is the stuff of which attention-grabbing headlines are made. But "Open Letter from ESRB Threatens to Pull Plug on Ratings System in Utah if Legislation Passes" certainly is. Nor does it stack up well against testimony from one of the Osmond Brothers, either. That's a lot of blinding pearly whites.  

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Sadly, I must agree.

I like Hal.  Really, I do.  And Dennis too.

But let's be honest, while we, the individuals out there are TRYING to dispute the false claims and misleading information spread by liars and deceivers... where's our back up?

Yeah, there are a few articles.  A few press releases.

And I don't doubt that there are state branches of the ECA trying to get involved.  But where's the support from the heavyweights?

I'll admit, I didn't sign up for the ECA.  I wanted to wait to see what was turning up with them.

And I'm disappointed.

Where are they in regards to the public eye with the various legislations?

Where are they in regards to the legal arena with legislation?

Where are they in countering the false claims by various news agencies?

The Eagle Forum filed a Brief with the US Supreme Court.  Where's the ECA's? 

The Eagle Forum got to have its say in Utah.  Where was the ECA?

Leland Yee had plenty to say publically.  Where was the ECA?

What about activism?  It was stated in the Forums that we couldn't try to organize some form of activism.  Well, gee, look what happened.  How do you fight the lies and deceit?  YOU GET ACTIVE!

Really, this is falling under the "too little, too late". 

Remember my condemnation about another organization and their failure to respond to the lies and deceit about the Mass Effect story on FOX News?

Well, ECA:

WHERE

WERE

YOU??!!

(In regards to all these other situations, that is.  Heck, where were they during the Mass Effect issue?)

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

In regards to Mass Effect:

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/01/28/ecas-hal-halpin-calls-on-fox-news...

Hal Halpin was a Panelist at the FTC's Townhall meeting on DRM:

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/03/31/eca039s-hal-halpin-dishes-drm-eul...

The ECA has been actively fighting Download Taxes:

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/02/25/eca-mobilizing-protests-against-d...

The ECA is fighting the Video Game Warning Label bill:

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/01/19/eca-launches-fight-against-video-...

The ECA is out there doing the work. Just because you don't read about every thing they do, that does not mean they are not doing it. I am a chapter president and I know what they are doing and they are doing a lot.

So they haven't filed a brief with the SCotUS. The case is a slam dunk for the games industry as is. Will they file one? Perhaps. But that is no indication of inactivity as a whole for the organization.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

All that's well and good, EZK, and more power to the people but to miss or forego opportunities, just to cite most recent examples, to appear before the Utah and Lousiana Legislatures in opposition to, respectively, Morley's and Crowe's legislation is kinda weird. If for no other reason than those were high profile cases.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

The ECA and it's SUPPORTERS have been fighting those issues by making their voices heard.  You can see just some of the issues currently being fought at http://action.theeca.com/t/2858/content.jsp?content_KEY=2159.

In fact because of our voices legislation to prevent ISP's from introducing bandwidth caps has been introduced in the House.  The ECA and gamers have been out in front of this issue for close to a year and have been fighting it non-stop.  Name another gamer org that's advocacy has lead to legislation being introduced in the House of Representatives that benefits the consumer?

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

An impressive list.

EXCEPT...

It doesn't deal with the issue at hand.  Fighting the stereotype of individuals who play video/computer games.

These stereotypes pop up in general society, on mainstream news outlets, in various legal and political battles, and beyond.

Where was the ECA when the issue came up in Utah and louisiana?

Where was the ECA when certain disbarred attornies (and it was HAL who mentioned them, so why not be active against them in the public square) popped up in various letters to politicians and organizations.  When said individual made various comments regarding various criminal cases to a mainstream public audience but if any response is given, it's to a limited audience.

And EZK mentions that the case in the Supreme Court is a gauranteed fail.  Doesn't matter.  The ECA, and others, should still be heard.  After all, when someone goes back to research the case, what will they see?  California's claims and the Eagle Forum.  What about the opposing view?  If we are supposed to speak out against the stereotypes and misinformation, then why isn't it being DONE?

Really, I don't know if just anyone can respond to this case, and I don't know how much it costs to file a response in a similar manner to the Eagle Forum, but believe me when I say I'm absolutely ITCHING to respond.  But I would think it would carry more weight coming from an organization like the ECA rather than a single individual.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

The Media Coalition has been leading the fight with the California case.  The ESA, EMA, and ECA have all been supporting them and are members, http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/05/21/media-coalition-slams-california-... We do take a position on these cases, a very strong one in fact, but we do it in a coordinated fashion with the Media Coalition doing the Amici.

Also, the Supreme Court hasn't decided to take up the case.  It won't be until the fall for that decision to be made.  At which point the Media Coalition, which the ECA is a board member, would do the Amicus.

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

"Name another gamer org that's advocacy has lead to legislation being introduced in the House of Representatives that benefits the consumer?"

Name another gamer org full stop. Being the best in a field of one isn't much of a victory.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

I agree, "Where is the ECA, and Hal Halpin" has been asked by myself in many comments sections on this site.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Seriously.

 

 

And we don't have to take to the streets en masse. There are always going to be idiots who presume that all gamers fit the 'stereotype' (or that the stereotype is in any way, shape or form close to reality for a large section of gamers) but the rest of us generally prove that we aren't what morons would lead others to believe.

 

If a person is going to think we're apathetic basement dwellers, well, sadly there may not be much we can do to convince them otherwise. If they're going to think we're hard-wiring ourselves to become spree killers, well... we already know how that turns out- one lulz-producing factory. The most that the majority of us can do- since we already lead full lives- is prove the theory wrong. Let the nay-sayers think what they will. Just because they think it, does not make it so.

 

 

 

---- hc svnt dracones

---- hc svnt dracones

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

And we don't have to take to the streets en masse. There are always going to be idiots who presume that all gamers fit the 'stereotype' (or that the stereotype is in any way, shape or form close to reality for a large section of gamers) but the rest of us generally prove that we aren't what morons would lead others to believe.

 

Which idiots are you talking about?, The ones that lie in the name of jesus,Oohhh..How 'bout the ones who have college degrees but still are lying jackasses cuz the dont do the research?

Cuz,im willing to do my best to fight against the negative stereotype us gamers are probably going to be stuck with till some new generation comes.

______________________

El "magnifico" Taco

ha ha ha

Magic Taco

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

I'm talking about idiots in general. There is no hard and fast law that they're bound to a religion or social class. My father is a politically conservative, geninuely religious man with a Masters who mows down zombies in l4d like it'll save baby Jesus and has sat with me whilst I traverse the Capital Wasteland or wander around in littleBigplanet.

 

Common sense and research skills aren't attached to any one group. It comes from having a level head and the ability to think for one's self.  There are idiots who would say my dad's more likely to snap and go beserk just because he enjoys video games; I say he's a good man with a big heart and he's got absolutely nothing to prove to some motor-mouthed moron who hasn't figured out that eating foot isn't a good idea.

 

 

---- hc svnt dracones

---- hc svnt dracones

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Ok ok, so i might be right or wrong. (Care to fix that?,I'll accept it)

But i agree with you that they're be always morons (no matter the background), That will think different views than other people.

 

I get it.

 

Magic Taco

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Exactly.  A lot of us here (and elsewhere) were saying and doing stuff to try to counteract the bad press gaming was getting a long time before Hal and his cronies showed up.

Remember folks, Hal Halpin is currently the president of the Crest Group, a consulting company serving the video game industry.  Crest Group is the association management company that previously managed IEMA and now manages the Entertainment Consumers Association (ECA).  Given that, it seems to me the ECA exists to serve the industry, not the players.

Besides, I don't remember Hal or the ECA doing much except promising that an ECA membership would give me an ongoing discount at Amazon.com that would more than make up for the ECA membership fee.  Then they took my money and told me the Amazon.com discount was a one-time discount.  Well, first they told me it didn't exist at all, and 6 months later (presumably after a lot more people complained) they said it was a one-time discount.

Yes Hal, I'm still upset about that.  You shouldn't promise stuff you can't deliver - especially when you're taking money based on those promises.  That's fraud, you arsehole!

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Hmm, not sure what issues you're having with the Amazon code, because I've used it numerous times. I've easily saved my membership cost (yes, I pay for my membership every year). Each code produced is a one time use item and you must regenerate a code for each game.  It says in the text area that each code is per game.  We're working on multi-game  codes to make it easier.

If you're having trouble please let us know as there have been some reported issues, http://www.gamepolitics.com/contact-us.

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

When I joined (November '08) the much-touted Amazon discount didn't exist.  The ECA was using a false discount to get people to join the ECA .  Last I checked (I believe it was May or June), it still wasn't instituted and you guys were saying it was never intended to be an ongoing discount, and that it was to be a one-time-use thing.  I would be glad to see that ECA finally caved in to the pressure and figured out a way to give us members what the organization had been promising for months, but it hasn't.  The discount is still listed on the ECA site as one-time-use:

"Multi-time use individually-assigned codes are coming soon."

And it's bad form to try to make out that your victims (ECA members like me who signed up hoping to get the discount) are the bad guys when you basically ran a fraudulent sign-up scheme for at least six months.

And just in case you're going to roll out the notion that I should join anyway because the ECA does good work, my response is this: I don't care what good work ECA does.  I joined for the discount.  If the ECA starts to do good work, I may stay a member for that reason, but so far I've seen very little of substance beyond a few press releases.  Talk is cheap.

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Sorry you feel this way, and I'll make sure to pass around your thoughts to the rest of the staff.  As far as good work, we've got many examples listed below.

Brett Schenker

Online Advocacy Manager

the ECA

www.theeca.com

Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Director
the ECA
www.theeca.com

 

Re: ECA's Halpin: Gamers Must Fight Negative Stereotypes

Sorry I feel this way?  According to what the ECA site says, you just lied to me about the discount!  I mean all you have to do to check this is go to the member benefits page.  It says there in black and white that the discount is one-time-only.  Maybe it's out of date.  If so, you need to change it.

 
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NeenekoAh, that old straw man. That is one of the ironies about the discussion, the whole point is showing how good people can still have problems with sexism and not realize it.09/17/2014 - 9:11pm
Andrew EisenYes, there have been a handful of op-eds suggesting that the term “gamer” has become tainted (two that I know of) but that’s the opinion of only a few. I've seen an equal number from those who disagree.09/17/2014 - 8:55pm
Andrew EisenExcept, you haven't provided a single example of a site that’s actually calling gamers a "collective of Sexist White Bigoted Basement Dwelling Manchildren."09/17/2014 - 8:55pm
TechnogeekIf you want to make the stereotype of gamers less painful, try calling people out when they do bad shit rather than handwave it away as "not all gamers". Even if it is a few bad apples, that'll still more than enough to spoil the barrel.09/17/2014 - 8:53pm
quiknkoldI'm not going to Sell Gamergate anymore. It can sell itself. But I will sell the integrity of the Gamer. That we are still good people, who create and donate to charitys, Who engage with those around us and just want to have a good time.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldpeople should not be harrassed and punished for the actions of a few. I've always welcomed and accepted everybody who wanted to join in. Who wanted to make them, or play them. I love good strong female protagonists, and want more.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldOne of the tennants of Gamergate is to stand up against Harrassment. That Gamers arent like those assholes. We can argue for days if the Sexism or Antifeminism or corruption is there or not, But the one thing I believe in and wear on my sleave is that09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldBut there were these websites, attacking me and people like me, for the actions of a few. and then others joined in on Twitter and other places. there was a hashtag that said "explain in 4 words a gamer" and it made me sick.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldManchildren who are awful people and that the Identity of the Gamer should die. This hurt me personally. I've always identified as a Gamer. Even in my childhood years, I was a Gamer. All my friends are Gamers. Its one of the core parts of my identity.09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
quiknkoldUltimately, With the whole Gamergate thing, I jumped on it due to the harassment. A small number of assholes harrass Anita and Zoe, and then all the publications lumped together Gamers as this collective of Sexist White Bigoted Basement Dwelling09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
quiknkoldEZacharyKnight : Lemme ask you a question. We have people who cling to walls, people who fire lasers from their eyes, people who can shapeshift....and yet fabric needs to be upheld to RL physics?09/17/2014 - 6:54pm
james_fudgebody paint?09/17/2014 - 5:33pm
E. Zachary Knightquiknkold, I stand corrected on the buttcrack thing. Still, I know of no fabric that actually does that.09/17/2014 - 5:05pm
Andrew EisenSo... it's unethical to discuss the ethics surrounding public interest vs. personal privacy?09/17/2014 - 4:45pm
prh99The source for the game was just released not long ago, it's at https://github.com/keendreams/keen09/17/2014 - 4:43pm
prh99An Indiegogo champagin bought the rights to the early 90's game Keen Dreams to make it open source and release it on GOG etc. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-get-keen-dreams-re-released-legally09/17/2014 - 4:42pm
james_fudgeAlso http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite09/17/2014 - 4:29pm
Andrew EisenI read the Kotaku story. Nowhere does it say anything close to "Gamers are white bigoted sexist losers." It's commenting specifically on the crap being slung at people discussing gender issues in games. So, what's the problem?09/17/2014 - 4:06pm
Andrew EisenYeah, I can imagine Spiderwoman posed like in your second link.09/17/2014 - 4:00pm
Andrew EisenThat's not the same pose. Spiderman (who is wearing an actual outfit rather than body paint) is crouched low to the ground. Kinda like a spider! Spiderwoman has her butt up in the air like she's waiting to be mounted.09/17/2014 - 3:59pm
 

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