U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States its Case in California Violent Video Game Law Appeal

July 23, 2009

Sometime this fall, the U.S. Supreme Court is expected to review California's appeal of lower court rulings striking down its 2005 violent video game law as unconstitutional. Yesterday, the video game industry submitted its position to the Court.

In a 41-page brief compiled by attorney Paul Smith of Jenner & Block, the game industry relies heavily on precedents set by a history of failed attempts by state and local governments to impose age-based restrictions on video games. Indeed, the game biz has never lost such a case and Smith has been their successful point man for many years. From the brief:

Despite [California's] efforts to conjure up some argument for review of the Ninth Circuit’s decision, in reality the decision is a routine application of established First Amendment principles to a content-based ban on protected expression.

Petitioners offer no persuasive reason for the Court to review this ruling. There is no split of
[past decisions] on the questions presented. To the contrary, the lower courts are unanimous as to the constitutionality of bans on distribution of violent video games. That is unsurprising...

California was not the first state to try to restrict distribution of video games it considered too violent for minors. Such laws have proved politically popular, but every one has been struck down under the First Amendment...

Smith and his fellow attorney also dig into California's assertion that children should be legally shielded from violent video games as they are from obscenity. California's causation arguments, which attempt to link violent video games to violent behavior, are also taken to task.

DOCUMENT DUMP: Grab a copy of the game industry brief here (41-page PDF)...


Comments

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States its Case in ...

Personally, I'm hoping they do take the case, and slap the **** out of it. Maybe then we won't have to go through every state wanting to pass their own anti-video game law.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States its Case in ...

There was a previous court case that delt with violence and media,in fact it was the very first case dealing with violence. this case was ruled that violent media is protected speech

In Winters v. New York (1948), Justice Stanley Reed, writing for the majority, protected entertainment from infringement by ruling that "[t]he line between … informing and … entertaining is too elusive … . Everyone is familiar with instances of propaganda as fiction. What is one man's amusement, teaches another's doctrine” (see also Cohen v. California, 1971). That was an important ruling because Winters is one of the few Supreme Court cases that deal with the question of the effect of violence in the media. The state of New York had arrested New York City bookseller Winters under a statute that prohibited the sale of stories of bloodshed. After three arguments before the Supreme Court, the law was deemed unconstitutional on the grounds that it was too vague.

 

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States its Case in ...

Its about time the gaming industry said something to the supreme court. I was getting sick hearing from the anti-gaming group all the time about this stupid law.

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States its Case in ...

It would be nice if they chose to take this bill just so they could rip the shit out of it. But really, they do have more important things to be looking at then one state's insane quest to ban entertainment.

Huh, when it's phrased like that it does seem kind of important :P

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States its Case in ...

I'd really like to know what's going on through their heads. Your state is broke but your going to waste even more time and money fighting to pass a law which has been consistantly struck down as unconstitutional? What are they thinking?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

As I stated before, I almost hope the Supreme Court chooses to review this petition (remember, they can choose to do nothing).  As this brief notes, the lower courts have been unanimous in their assertion of First Amendment rights over video games, particularly since no one has successfully argued that games targeted by those laws are (legal defined as) "obscene."  So it is incredibly unlikely that the Supreme Court would go against precidence, and they would uphold the lower courts' decisions.

If that happened, it would pretty much stick a pin in any other politicians' plans to try and pass video game legislation in order to garner support from family organizatons.  It would also mean that our ol' buddy JT would have a much harder time selling his bullshit in the form of State bills that waste everyone's time.  Hell, even the Eagle Forum wouldn't be able to bully any Representatives into sponsoring video game legislation.

Unfortunately, the Court is most likely to pass on this petition, having much more important issues to deal with.  But at least that would kill the California bill for good.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

If SCOTUS passes on it will that really kill it for good? Is there anything that says California can't try again, other than common sense? Maybe JDKJ can chime in on this one.

 

Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They've got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however...

Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They've got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however...

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

Oh, of course they could try again.  But it would kill THIS bill, if nothing else.  They've been fighting to get this bill passed for 4 years now.

Now, could they start all over with a differently worded bill?  Yes.  But quite honestly California has way bigger issues on their plate at the moment.  Things are a lot worse now than they were in 2005.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

I think that if the Supremes granted certiorari, heard the State fully on the merits, then bitch-slapped them all into next week while screaming, "Why are you wasting everyone's time and money with this nonsense?!," those idiots up in Sacramento would be huddling together the very next week, plotting the introduction of their next piece of anti-videogame legislation.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

The only thing that would kill it permanently would be if SCOTUS took the case and ruled that the law was unconstitutional.  Deciding not to hear it does not mean they couldn't come back later.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

I guess technically there's nothing stopping the State from refiling another Petition for Certiorari on the same matter but doing so, with the Court having already declined to hear the matter, is much akin to the job-seeker who's been told, "Hell'll freeze over before we hire your dumb ass" and keeps on sending in his resume.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

You're right, but if SCOTUS justices were to change again, they'd have no choice but to review the cert petition again.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

Provided you satisfy all the technical filing requirements, all Petitions for Certorari are reviewed, regardless of whether the composition of the bench has changed and whether it's the 100th time the same Petition is being filed. Keep it up, thought, and the Court may order you to show cause why they shouldn't hold you in contempt for frivolous filings. But that doesn't mean they don't have to review and rule on frivolous filings.  

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

I think it's time to raise some $$ and mail a copy of the Bill of Rights to Yee and all the other politicians who are trying to circumvent it.  They need a reminder to stop wasting everyone's time and tax $$.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

Don't bother sending one to a certain ex-and-never-to-be-again lawyer, he'll think you sent him toilet paper.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

Then again, Pee-Pee Yee and the rest of those brain-dead idiots will also think that you sent them toilet paper.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

This is not going to get cert. As the ESA brief says, there is no Circuit Split, in fact there is unanimity on this issue. If the Court takes this it will only be so that they can blanket say "no more, we're coming down"

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

If this passes then polititions will soon try to have games banned from adults, then owning a violent game will be illegal. Give them an inch and they take a mile.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

While I have no doubt that some of them would like to do that, I highly doubt that they could.

Look at porn, banning the sale of porn to minors has been ruled constitutional in 1968. It's been over 40 years and despite the best efforts by the morality police it's still legal for an adult to purchase porn.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

The trouble is that if games are classified as porn, as is one avenue of attack these people use, then the medium will only cater to the sleaze factor. 

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

It's over. We're screwed.

As a gamer and a Californian, this can't end good. If it passes, the gaming industry takes a hit. Or more likely, it won't pass, and California goes into even greater debt due to wasted millions in legal fees.

Whoever wins, we lose.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

Look at the bright side. Jenner & Block get to collect some hefty legal fees at a time when law firms are laying off associates and partners by the thousands. Maybe the positive impact to their bottom line will forestall them having to send some of their employees out to join the swelling ranks of the unemployed. Or, hopefully, Mr. Smith will spend some of that newly-acquired wealth in California. Every dark cloud has some sort of silver lining . . . if you look hard enough.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

I seriously hope you're right. If Jenner & Block are stationed in CA, then it might offer some jobs in the legal careers, and somehow pass that onto CA's citizens. With any luck, the gaming industry will get a hefty sum as well, most of which are here in CA as well. Yes, I can see how this might come back to us. But that is best case senario.

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court: Video Game Biz States it Case in ...

If you were using hyperbole, I apologize, but the legal fees won't be anywhere near the "millions" mark, and they probably won't even approach a million dollars.  Most of the legal reimbursements have been around $150,000 average, IIRC.

Of course, every little bit hurts when you're flat broke...

"De minimus non curat lex"

"De minimus non curat lex"
 
Forgot your password?
Username :
Password :

Poll

Will there be any female presenters at the unveiling of Microsoft’s new console?:

Shout box

You're not permitted to post shouts.
E. Zachary KnightIf the videos are of sufficient quality that people subscribe and watch regularly, then those let's players are providing a service that people want. That is the heart of capitalism. That is not something that should be shamed.05/17/2013 - 8:06am
E. Zachary KnightI have no idea who either of those people are. However, I still don't see why making a business out of creating let's play videos is somehow evil or wrong.05/17/2013 - 8:04am
MaskedPixelanteIt sure is if you're just doing it for the money. See Tobuscus and/or Pewdiepie for what happens when people get into it just for the money.05/17/2013 - 7:30am
E. Zachary KnightWhy is it wrong to make money doing LPs? Why should that be something that should be shamed?05/17/2013 - 6:20am
MaskedPixelantehttps://twitter.com/PsychedelicSA/status/335183893214924801 Now here's an interesting, glass half full thought about the Nintendo LP thing. It outs the people who are just doing LPs to make money.05/17/2013 - 5:56am
E. Zachary KnightI responded in writing to all this "let's play" stuff Nintendo Started. No need for my permission, I won't give it. It's not mine to give. http://divineknightgaming.com/?p=29205/16/2013 - 2:21pm
E. Zachary KnightLars Doucet of Levelup Labs has a Reddit going on game companies that allow monetization of Let's Play videos. http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1egayn/lets_build_a_list_of_game_studios_that_allow/05/16/2013 - 1:04pm
Sleaker@Imautobot - yah I wouldn't use an emulator as a good first run test of how stable the console is, haha.05/16/2013 - 11:47am
E. Zachary KnightThe 50th person to jump off a bridge is just as dumb if not dumber than the 1st.05/16/2013 - 10:03am
MaskedPixelanteYeah, let's all jump on Nintendo for doing this, even though they're hardly the first company to do this...05/16/2013 - 9:47am
E. Zachary KnightWow Nintendo, this is wrong. http://kotaku.com/nintendo-forcing-ads-on-some-youtube-lets-play-video-50709238305/16/2013 - 8:44am
Imautobot@Sleaker, further gameplay has revealed that the controller button do stick under the faceplate. Also, The NES emulator (Emuya)keeps crashing on me, though I think a bad ROM is causing it.05/16/2013 - 7:10am
Papa MidnightAE: I wonder if any other publishers will follow suit.05/15/2013 - 8:12pm
Andrew EisenEA is ditching Online Pass. http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/15/ea-kills-its-controversial-online-pass-program/05/15/2013 - 7:20pm
Avalongod@Zach and quicnkold...I've read the bill and the intent of it is to fear-monger. It's not a balanced message. I don't recall the ESRB being mentioned at all. It's more "keeps your kids away from these movies/games or they'll become violent"05/15/2013 - 4:35pm
E. Zachary Knightquiknkold, The big problem with that legislation is the amount of misinformation out there. Who is going to ensure that the information in the pamphlet is accurate?05/15/2013 - 3:25pm
quiknkoldREBeardogg : I'm on the fence about this. on one side, I want parents to be aware of the ESRB, and even Movie Ratings. On the other hand, I feel this will be used for nothing but Propaganda. The ESRB does a good job.05/15/2013 - 3:07pm
IanCFrostbite is coming out on iOS devices. Yet the Wii U cant handle it? *coughbullshitcough*05/15/2013 - 2:31pm
BearDogg-Xhttp://www.politickernj.com/65515/lesniak-ruiz-bill-limit-children-s-exposure-media-violence-clears-senate - Bill requiring schools to publish pamphlets with anti-fake media "violence" propaganda clears NJ Senate05/15/2013 - 2:03pm
quiknkoldI am thinking of writing a musical about videogames, violence, and the first amendment. Would need a collaborator though and would kickstart it after the script is written. was thinking off broadway.05/15/2013 - 2:00pm
 

Be Heard - Contact Your Politician