DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

August 6, 2009 -

Given the recent history of consumer-unfriendly DRM fiascos surrounding Spore and other high-profile PC titles, it's refreshing to hear from a vendor of copy protection software who is actively seeking gamer input.

While we will confess to knowing very little about a DRM product called Byteshield, we note that CEO Jan Samzelius posted in the GamePolitics/ECA forums last night:

We pride ourselves on listening to gamers and try to configure our solution accordingly... We are trying to convince game publishers and developers to put gamers first and organize everything else around it. I want to hear from everybody about what you do not like and then see if you like what our solution does.

Byteshield appears to have received positive reviews from the anti-DRM crowd at The Prism.

GP: This is certainly not an endorsement of Byteshield as I haven't tested it myself. But as a game consumer, I'm always pleased when company execs keep gamers in mind.


Comments

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

*CD key at install.

*Feel free to store a key when I try to patch my game.

THAT'S IT.

 

-Do not ping a server during a single player game unless you tell me you are getting game content.

-No install limits.

-No hardware disables.

 

Blizzard only cares about unique CD keys during multiplayer. Honestly, just force 'em to buy a key if you detect a pirated disc. Right off the bat, no fuss no muss, in game.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

The onl;y solution to drm? No drm what so ever.

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Unfortunety that is probably an unrealistic expectation in today's world.  Companies are more and more insecure in there own properties and making it go away it probably not possible now.   It's a better idea to figure out how to improve the situation rather then just demanding it disappear.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Not necessarily. Look at what has happened in the music industry. After years of panic and trying to apply DRM to everything, they have loosened up and even iTunes is selling DRM-free music now.

Give it a few more years and the games industry may calm down. Music piracy went through more than 10 years of p2p before major labels agreed to DRM-free. Game piracy is old too, but not at the levels the industry currently sees (take the Demigod example), which is sort of similar to what happened with music once more and more people figured out they could do it. (Music files obviously cost much, much less than a new game, but bear with me.)

Already there's healthy debate over DRM and various companies of all sizes are trying different methods. At least they seem to be past a uniform approach.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Almost every other PC game(every 2 or 4) dose not have alot or any DRM on it, thigns are changing and thats a good sign.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Source please.

No DRM means no disk check, no CD key.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

O cmon, a disk check and CD key are perfectly reasonable. A disk check can be annoying, so I'll give you that, but no, there's no reason to be against cd keys.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

I didn't say they weren't. I said they were DRM.

 

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Install limits are a no no instead flood control where you have heavy(5 a week 30 a month) activations is what should be looked at. Also that means its a no no lock it to one PC as well,3 "active" installs for one key should be the norm.

Not online you need a disc(if you really must use such a cheap easily bypassed method of protection in the first place) online the online DRM kicks in and you can play without a disc.

The DRM is part of the game,that runs with the game process only and is removed with it upon uninstall.

It should not degrade the performance of the game or computer.

It should not damage data or the computer.

 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

I dont game on pc but Id like to see drm gone before someone has the bright idea to bring it into console gaming

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

umm, consoles are DRMed to hell and back

 

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Get rid of drm.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

The chances of DRM suddenly dropping off the map unexpectedly are pretty slim, so, I think in this instance, it's all about picking the lesser evil. And this is what I'd like my lesser evil to include.

1. It should uninstall with the game.

2. It should not clash with any other software, like anti-virus.

3. It should not have an install limit.

4. It should not munch up processing power while installed.

5. It should let you know if it's being installed.

On the assumption he's reading this thread

* Will install and run as non-admin (e.g. no device drivers, no services, no BHO, no direct access to hardware, goes in %USERPROFILE%\games with no problems)

* Doesn't require network connection for single player install or use. (indirect network connection, an e-mail that has a key and can be archived for an unlimited time is acceptable if you escrow a universal unlock)

* If the game isn't running, it's not running

* Doesn't break based on installed / running things (I'm a dev. I have plenty of stuff that can be used to break things, but that's not what I use them for. I use Process Explorer as my task manager, so its driver is almost always resident)

* Doesn't use undocumented functions. Ability to run under WINE or virtualized environments a plus.

* Disk not needed in drive is a huge plus (my only pure Windows comp is a laptop, and battery life from not using the drive and not having to carry the disks around for multiple games is useful)

Re: On the assumption he's reading this thread

How reasonable is flood control for keys? bascily more than 5 activations in a week or 30 in a month and its black lsited?

 

Over 5 in a week and it merely wont let you activate more than 30 in  a month and its nuked,the key that is.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: On the assumption he's reading this thread

If you can do that without a network connection, fine.

Re: On the assumption he's reading this thread

Well its doubled layered the disc is needed for install, the disc is needed for offline play,non  activation handicaps online features of the game.

If tis a steam,ect version its non functional until its activated and then one could ahve it update the validation of it weekly, bascily a passive key check that can be proformed through email. If it can not re validate it handicaps it to offline mode.

 

I am just throwing some ideas around, I always thought the best happy balance with DRM is that you get full offline play without activation but if you want extras,updates,ect you need to have it activated. And activation needs to be more open, IE you can do it from the game or from email or from the site, you give the magic number the game spits out based on its unique ID of some kind and you can activate it offline no fuss no muss and if you have a flood system installed even offline activation will fail.

Keygens and cracks will never be stamped out so I am not even concerned about them, you can stamp them out through patches but no publisher seems that hot and bothered to work on a game for too long anymore....

 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: On the assumption he's reading this thread

I agree with most of

DRM should be unobtrusive to the purchaser/owner of the game and ONLY annoy the potential Pirate.

If you damage the PC operating system or hamper it in any way, you have failed.

And enough with the screwing up of DVD burning or Blu-ray burning... what the fuck was up with that bullshit?

Basically DRM needs to DO NO HARM. Especially to the person who paid money for the product.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

You want to listen to gamers?. Easy answer. Roll over and die (as a company), and don't infect any software with your DRM.

 

And if you could take ShittyROM with you, we would be extra grateful.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

If you'd bothered to read the article beyond the headline you'd have seen this isn't the company responsible for SecuROM.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

I would still be happy if ByteShield could take SecuROM with them. Somehow. I can hope, right?

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Well the fundamental problem is that they're trying to do the impossible.

Un-crackable software is just as unlikely as 100% effective security/safety/reliability.

The main difference though is just one person cracking the software + internet = widespread piracy.
Doesn't matter how insane you set the security level, the same thing will happen. However, the security level *does* effect your paying customers badly, so bumping up the security level just makes it worse for them and therefore the company as well.

All they need to be doing is just enough to stop casual piracy (mild things like CD keys) but not too much to annoy your paying customers.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Here's a suggestion for them:  Get rid of DRM!  It doesn't stop the pirates from cracking the software and it hurts legitimate customers.  Just use a cd key for online play and don't worry about the single player.


Sortableturnip's Law: As an online discussion of video game violence grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Jack Thompson approaches 1

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

DRM isn't meant to stop piracy. These people are not idiots, they know it doesn't work. It's meant to stop customer resale to friends (or just giving it to someone else).

That's one of the reasons. One of the other reasons is only applicable to publically traded companies. The stockholders are almost guaranteed to not understand that DRM doesn't work. And they want to see that the company is doing something to try and stop piracy.

So there you go, the 2 main reasons why DRM is used. Piracy is not one of them (at least directly).

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

This is totally correct. WE all know that games are available for download on theprivateerbay from day 1, if not day -11, so the companies surely know it themselves. This is about second sale and other secondary reasons, i.e. shareholder confidence, as stated above.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Despite the fact that Ubisoft seems to be blind to it, that method actually works amazingly well. Just ask Blizzard, it's been working for them since 1998.

----
Papa Midnight
http://www.thesupersoldiers.com

----
Papa Midnight

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Tell them to my pirated copy of Starcraft. And its popularity. Without piracy, it would never, ever become popular in Asian.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Extremely doubtful.  Gaming over in Asia has always been a big deal.  Piracy would not be needed over there to make a good game popular.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

I suppose that's one way to get some free publicity for a product you're trying to sell.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: DRM Company CEO Asks for Gamer Feedback

Do I really need to reiterate my biggest problems with DRM? I hate the install limit, and I hate the fact that most DRM installs intrusive programs that actually hurt the computer, and are technically illegal to uninstall.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
 
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NeenekoAh, that old straw man. That is one of the ironies about the discussion, the whole point is showing how good people can still have problems with sexism and not realize it.09/17/2014 - 9:11pm
Andrew EisenYes, there have been a handful of op-eds suggesting that the term “gamer” has become tainted (two that I know of) but that’s the opinion of only a few. I've seen an equal number from those who disagree.09/17/2014 - 8:55pm
Andrew EisenExcept, you haven't provided a single example of a site that’s actually calling gamers a "collective of Sexist White Bigoted Basement Dwelling Manchildren."09/17/2014 - 8:55pm
TechnogeekIf you want to make the stereotype of gamers less painful, try calling people out when they do bad shit rather than handwave it away as "not all gamers". Even if it is a few bad apples, that'll still more than enough to spoil the barrel.09/17/2014 - 8:53pm
quiknkoldI'm not going to Sell Gamergate anymore. It can sell itself. But I will sell the integrity of the Gamer. That we are still good people, who create and donate to charitys, Who engage with those around us and just want to have a good time.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldpeople should not be harrassed and punished for the actions of a few. I've always welcomed and accepted everybody who wanted to join in. Who wanted to make them, or play them. I love good strong female protagonists, and want more.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldOne of the tennants of Gamergate is to stand up against Harrassment. That Gamers arent like those assholes. We can argue for days if the Sexism or Antifeminism or corruption is there or not, But the one thing I believe in and wear on my sleave is that09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldBut there were these websites, attacking me and people like me, for the actions of a few. and then others joined in on Twitter and other places. there was a hashtag that said "explain in 4 words a gamer" and it made me sick.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldManchildren who are awful people and that the Identity of the Gamer should die. This hurt me personally. I've always identified as a Gamer. Even in my childhood years, I was a Gamer. All my friends are Gamers. Its one of the core parts of my identity.09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
quiknkoldUltimately, With the whole Gamergate thing, I jumped on it due to the harassment. A small number of assholes harrass Anita and Zoe, and then all the publications lumped together Gamers as this collective of Sexist White Bigoted Basement Dwelling09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
quiknkoldEZacharyKnight : Lemme ask you a question. We have people who cling to walls, people who fire lasers from their eyes, people who can shapeshift....and yet fabric needs to be upheld to RL physics?09/17/2014 - 6:54pm
james_fudgebody paint?09/17/2014 - 5:33pm
E. Zachary Knightquiknkold, I stand corrected on the buttcrack thing. Still, I know of no fabric that actually does that.09/17/2014 - 5:05pm
Andrew EisenSo... it's unethical to discuss the ethics surrounding public interest vs. personal privacy?09/17/2014 - 4:45pm
prh99The source for the game was just released not long ago, it's at https://github.com/keendreams/keen09/17/2014 - 4:43pm
prh99An Indiegogo champagin bought the rights to the early 90's game Keen Dreams to make it open source and release it on GOG etc. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-get-keen-dreams-re-released-legally09/17/2014 - 4:42pm
james_fudgeAlso http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite09/17/2014 - 4:29pm
Andrew EisenI read the Kotaku story. Nowhere does it say anything close to "Gamers are white bigoted sexist losers." It's commenting specifically on the crap being slung at people discussing gender issues in games. So, what's the problem?09/17/2014 - 4:06pm
Andrew EisenYeah, I can imagine Spiderwoman posed like in your second link.09/17/2014 - 4:00pm
Andrew EisenThat's not the same pose. Spiderman (who is wearing an actual outfit rather than body paint) is crouched low to the ground. Kinda like a spider! Spiderwoman has her butt up in the air like she's waiting to be mounted.09/17/2014 - 3:59pm
 

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