Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

August 9, 2009 -

Activision Blizzard, the world's largest video game publisher, has been raising the ire of many gamers of late. So much so, in fact, that there is at least preliminary talk of a boycott of Activision products.

So what has the publisher done to create so much ill will?

A few things, actually.

UK gamers are incensed over Activision's plan to price the upcoming Modern Warfare 2 at £54.99 (roughly US$90). Wedbush-Morgan analyst Michael Pachter ominously described the move as a trial run for Activision:

Activision knows it has a 'hot' game, knows that the market will pay an additional 10 per cent, and has decided to increase price accordingly.

Game consumers are also concerned about Activision's pricing plans for specialty controllers for the upcoming Tony Hawk: Ride and DJ Hero.

Adding gasoline to the fire was a recent comment by Activision Blizzard CEO. During an earnings call last week, Kotick said:

You know if it was left to me, I would raise the prices even further.

PS3 News reports that some gamers are planning a boycott and links to an online petition which has garnered nearly 5,000 signatures to date. From the petition:

You're increasingly making your fanbase more angry. Your recent moves on the business side are head scratching and completely apauling [sic]. Tony Hawk peripherals to start, PC and UK price hikes and ridiculously overpriced collectors editions for MW2... Than [sic] your CEO decided to further anger your customers... I believe we are in what we call a "recession." What the consumer needs is not more expensive items, but less expensive...

UPDATE: Activision boss Kotick made $15 million last year, reports gamesindustry.biz. You keep raising those prices, Bobby...


Comments

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

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Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

I can't stop buying Activision games altogether and still remain a gamer. They simply publish too many titles. Avoiding plastic instruments is easy; avoiding the BLACKLIGHT virus, on the other hand...

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Shame on GamePolitics for knowingly and wilfully omitting the context of Bobby Kotick's statement, which was clearly a joke, and here is being presented as if it were a crude suggestion at future or desired price hikes.

Not that any of you - or even GamePolitics - would understand, but big budget games (and games with hardware peripherals attached, like Tony Hawk) are hugely expensive to develop and manufacture and represent a substancial financial risk.  Often a company like Activision banks more than just future Call of Duty or Tony Hawk titles on these bets, but much of the overhead and operational cost of business for large parts of its company, including the profitability necessary to take risks and try new and different kinds of things.

In short, you don't have all the information, you're looking for a fight where there really isn't one to be had, and you just need to stop whining.  Nerd Rage/Gamer Indignation is just kind of silly and tired at this point...

If you don't like the price tag, than please, by all means, don't pay it, more power to you in your so-called boycot (while the rest of us enjoy the game) - but lets not pretend that this is greed.

This is economics.

Until ANY of you are willing to risk $50+ million of your own money on the world-wide launch of another Call of Duty game, I suggest you step down off of your high horse.  You haven't got a clue.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Yeah a joke... more like a freudian slip. Also, and I know you know this, all jokes have some fragment of truth in them.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

The insipid neo-capitalist "shut up and spend your money peasants.  Companies aren't here to supply your needs" is growing seriously tedious.  Seriously, this is our fucking money.  For some people that extra $10 might make the difference between a month or two as far as making that game purchase.  When it comes to US givem them OUR money we have every right to be as selfish and demanding as we fucking well please.

Anyone who thinks that we should be silent when it comes to our money, fuck off.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

I believe the canned bullshit response to this argument is "Can't afford it? Then find a new hobby other than gaming."

I know I've heard that one well over a dozen times.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

^Made of win

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Haven't got a clue? In which case, why is it just in the UK that CoD:MW2 will be priced at a premium over and above all other territories? If this were truly about economics and economies of scale, then this higher price would be reflectcd globally, not just in the one market Kotick's Activison thinks it can price gouge and get away with it.

-- teh moominz --

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Again, pricing is not about greed.  It's about economics.

In case you haven't been paying attention, gaming companies are going out of business and consolidating at an alarming rate.  It's hard to make money right now.  Good games - even great games, like Killzone 2 for example - aren't even breaking a million units.

Even -IF- this UK price hike is a testbed for higher price points, that doesn't mean its being done to line Bobby's pockets, as GamePolitics so... dickish-bloggery-ingly... suggests.  It's done to support a business.  It's done so that if Wolfenstein (for example) utterly fails, Raven won't dissapear, and can instead have the financial backing to try again at something else.

Or would you prefer that all of those incredibly talented and hard working people just get laid off?  The $20+ million it takes to make even a "just okay" game, has to come from somewhere.

But by all means... gather your torches and pitchforks and storm the Activision castle.  If you don't have your noggin jammed firmly up your pooper, you may actually notice some of their really kind, sincere, and normal employees (people just like you), working really hard to build a successful business in a hit-driven climate that's destroying a lot of their peers.  Then again, we wouldn't want that $10 difference and all of your unmitigated rage to be quelled by reason, would we?

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Bollocks. they're doing it in the UK because they know they can get away with it here whereas consumers in other territories would balk at the price hike.

I don't appreciate this cavalier attitude and will instead spend my entertainment cash on products from other publishers. If MW2 does indeed turn out to be unmissable, I'll pick it up second hand.

I do feel sorry for Infinity Ward, especially as it's not them that sets the price, but £55 for a game is too expensive any way you slice it and I don't wish to be part of any precedent that ends up getting signed off by Kotick.

-- teh moominz --

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

They should keep selling at regulkar price, then offer the MP as a downloadable option for around half price. Many people would buy the disc version (SP and MP), as well as the downloadable MP version for the sake of not having to walk to the console and put the disc in the drive. Massive BF1943 sales proved convenience is a factor.

Of course PC users are used to being able to play without the disc, AND PC games tend to be cheaper than their console counterparts, so that aspect would kinda be a double slap to Kotick's face. Did they say anything about the PC version raising proportionately, or will it actually match the console vers. price this time?

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

When it comes to online petitions like these, I'm skeptical about the participants' resolve. Regardless, I hope enough people stick to this boycott. It will be a message to Activision and other publishers that they can't just screw gamers like this and get away with it.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

this may not effect me as an american but i think i'll join in anyways.

mostly as they aren't patching Prototype on the PC despite a desperate need for fixes, especially a game murdering sound glitch on  many players systems.

its an awesome game, a great one all round, but that issue among others, and NO patch in sight makes it sickening to have spent money on this.

even Ubi caved and gave a good stable patch for R6V on the PC before letting it die (though i think the multiple lawsuits helped that one)

 

but avoiding a CoD game? thats easy for me, haven't liked that much since CoD1 TBH.

they've become boring, unrealistic and just bland and repetitive in story and design.

its like Halo, the same thing repeated over and over again with minimal change, yet people eat it up like theres this massive differance that actually makes it worth more than expansion pack price.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Is Prototype that broken for some users? I haven't had a single issue with it, which rarely ever happens with any PC game. What are your sound issues exactly? I've read of some seperate unrelated ones.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Uh guys, this price is only for UK. It won't be $90 in the US. Although they might try to bump it up to $70.

Good business decision for them, there will still be a huge amount of people who buy it, and any boycott will be far too small to make a difference.

Obviously it's going to make some consumers angry, and a boycott is really the only thing they can do.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

I'll just wait and buy used if I want it bad enough ,that way they get denied my money.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Big fan of this game, but I too refuse to pay US $90 for it. I'll just rent it from Gamefly, wait 60 days and buy it for $35 with multiple Gamefly discount coupons.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

I've been boycotting Activision for a few years now.

Mainly they haven't put out a game that appealed to me.

Sierra was going to put out games that were a maybe but now those sales went to other publishers.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Well damn, I was really looking forward to this game, but if they're gonna slap me with a $90 price tag, then I guess I'll just do what the smart people do and wait for the price to go down/wait for a store sale to lower the price.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Video Games is a business like everything else.

I'm not going to take sides on this, I'm just going to state that 5,000 out of....what's the pre-order list at? 14 million? Sounds about right.

5,000 out of 14 Million is nothing more than a single piece of hay amongst a warehouse full of hay, with the warehouse being made of hay as well.

(The 14 million might be exaggerated, but my point still stands.)

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Activision may actually be on to something here.

I'm guessing that a good percentage of the people who buy games are the ones who don't mind spending a little cash, while the people who pirate are normally the ones who can't afford the games, penny pinch, etc.

In the end, while one or two might drop off, the people who buy will not mind meeting the price increase, even if grudgingly, and in so doing Activision might be hoping to make up for any pirating by milking the honest consumers.

Just a theory, mind you.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

I can understand people being angry about the pricing, but just because this is what Activision wants you to buy it for, doesn't mean you have to buy it at that price.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Cue Monty Python's The Galaxy Song

"If you really want to enslave people, tell them you are going to give them Total Freedom." - L. Ron Hubbard

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

 Activision and EA need to learn there lesson. Honestly I trust Blizzard more but lately ever since the merger they really haven’t made the best of moves. Especially putting World of Warcraft in the hands of Team 2 Ghostcrawler. Almost everything he wants to do is focus on a small minority of players like Everquest and games like it did.

 
When his team got their hands on WoW they wanted to changed Dual Speccing from Leveling and helping lower level toons from having to focus on one speak to appease a guild he wanted it to be level 80 only and you needed to buy an expensive item and then you needed to summon a summon stone and have 7 people there just to change you specc. 
 
People were pissed.
 
Thankfully the team overrides him often and most of the current patch does help lower level toons but even at 80 the 400 MEGS content addition is still exclusive to a select view who rep grinded

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Reel in the EA hate a bit. They seem to actually be trying to please gamers across the board in the past year or so. If you were to make this comment about 3 years ago, then I would agree, but I can't be angry at EA because it seems that they have learned and are trying to adapt.

"

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

 Well boycotting them will be easy for me, I don't play Guitar Hero and that's all they seem to make anymore.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

They raped lan gaming out of it possibly making it online only threw the new Bnet and now they are price gouging?....well played sir...well played......

 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Meh, I wasn't going to buy any of this stuff anyway, and I certainly wasn't going to buy it new. If I discover that I actually want any of these games, I'll wait til the PS4 comes out and pick up them up from the $14.99 or less bin at Gamestop. I'll break their system regardless of how much they think I should be paying; I'm too patient and too cheap to get taken in by crap like this.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

People won't boycott Activision in enough numbers for this little stunt to matter. Even if they did, people are not going to abandon Blizzard, so Activision will just view this as what it is: Noise.

I am down for people standing together in support of a cause they believe in. I just know that my fellow gamers are utlimately going to lap up pretty much anything thrown their way that is a good game even if they hate the company that makes it. Since gamers will do this and Activision is partnered with Blizzard and has them and Inifinty Ward cranking out 'must own' titles, this little farce will accomplish nothing. 

I don't like Activision and will avoid their products personally, but I am not foolish enough to think that enough other people will actually stand their ground on this issue for it to make a bit of difference.

"

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

IMO collectors editions are just a plot for developers to squease more cash out of their game with the bonus stuff added as an excuse. I'm also concerned that Blizzard may be becoming tainted by Activision's influence, That's not to say I dislike Blizz. It's almost as if Activision is taking EA's place as the industry A-holes.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

What Wormdundee said, plus the developers have nothing to do with pricing. That is entirely the publisher's thing. Developers make games because they enjoy them, publishers sell games because they enjoy money.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

My god, it all makes sense now! The companies...they want people to pay more. Thanks for enlightening me as to the purpose of collector's editions :P

But seriously, cmon now. It's not some sort of fiendish 'plot', it's called business. They put out a version of the game with some stuff added in and charge more. It's pretty straightforward, it's not like people are forced to buy it.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

I don't get why EA is still being ridiculed by gamers. Look at what they are doing lately. They got Dead Space, Mirror's Edge, Skate, Dragon Age, The Old Republic, Mass Effect. These are all games that gamers want to be milked a little more. Even look at their sports games since Peter Moore came in. Madden 10 is the biggest update to Madden in the longest time.

Now look at Activision. We been getting a new Call of Duty ever year since release with two developers working on every other one (only the Infinity Ward ones are the good ones). There has been 10 Tony Hawk games in the past 10 year, with the latest one having a peripheral. Speaking of peripherals, not only they have Guitar Hero, but the guitar has been replaced in World Tour with the slider, new drums (even though Rock band is around), and now we have DJ hero coming in. This is especially annoying for Wii owners who have the Wii Balance Board, and Wii Motion Plus in the mix. Going back the the Guitar Hero Issue, there has been disputes on peripheral compatibility.

So who are the milkers now? EA has cleaned up over the pass couple of years, but Activision is going to clasp if they don't get new IPs.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Dear 'gamers' considering a boycott:
Grow the hell up.

Seriously.  When did we get all this bullshit entitlement ideology?  Activision doesn't need to give you games at prices YOU can afford.  As long as people will buy it at that price, that's where they're going to sell it.  If you don't like the price, don't buy it until it drops.  If you don't like the price of the collector's edition, don't buy it.  But don't assume that because you don't like the price, it's too high.  I'm not excited about the 80 dollar price of the edition I'm buying, but I'm not whining like a little fucking brat.

This is just as obnoxious as those people who say they're going to protest Left 4 Dead 2.  Grow up you self-entitled children, and learn to go without. 

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

At what point did boycotts become taboo?  I'm also curious to when companies became such sacred cows that they are excluded from anyone saying anything negative about them.  The people flippantly throwing around the word "entitlement" really need to grow up themselves.  All it is is trying to be a wannabe Sessler who himself is a wannabe bad ass.  By calling people spoiled children is just a petty attempt to drive a wedge between them and yourself so you come across as looking "tough".  Saying things like "companies aren't here because you want a product or service" is really missing the complete central fucking point of a company. 

Customers should not just sit on their thumbs.  Customer feedback to a company, be it positive or negative, is something that many companies seek out in order to critique and better themselves. 

I can only surmise that you also think that a few years back when Coca-Cola put out New Coke that the customer complaints were just spoiled children then right?  Perhaps they should have never brought back Coke Classic because of these unhappy consumers right?

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

The problem isn't the boycott but how it is handled, which is the biggest problem... they're aren't going to take a group like this seriously.


Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

I would agree, somewhat. But just because the initial boycott petition was poorly executed (and they ALWAYS are) doesn't mean somebody who knows how to spell and write a paragraph or two can't also. Then again one risks splitting the signature base and end up ruining any form of progress made... so maybe petitioners need to be more sophisticated with their means instead of stamping their seal on anything that gets a general idea across.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

And what would you suggest they do if they're angry about being charged what they perceive as rediculous amounts of money? All they're doing is telling Activision the price is too high and refusing to buy, seems the more mature thing to do.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

And if you don't like gamers petitions, feel free not to contribute to them or read them.  Strange that you tell gamers to just ignore Activision if they don't like how they're being treated but you seem unable to do the same, instead posting your usual snark ridden, holier-than-thou brand of response, attacking anyone who dares to disagree with you.  I'd say those considering a boycott aren't the ones who need to grow up.

Parallax Abstraction
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
blog.digital-lifeline.ca

Parallax Abstraction
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Collector's Editions of cames, I can see them pricing any way they really want to.  It doesn't bother me at all.

Raising the pricing of other games is a bit much.  I play the crap out of all my games.  Left 4 Dead was completely worth the 60 bucks I paid for as I've played the hell out of it (Getting so close to hitting that 65k kills).  The thing I'm not happy as with us being charged for content when the PC gamers get it for free.  I've read up on L4D2 and I'm content with what they have in store.  It's early to release, but I think we'll be in for a whole suprise with the work they've done.
I haven't really bought an Activision game in a long time.  Last one?  Maybe GH3?  Activision really lost me when they completely milked the GH franchise to the point where there really is 10 GH's a year.  I was pretty PO'd with the whole law suit situation with Double Fine over Brutal Legend (that game better come out!).  The last Tony Hawk game in ther series I bought was THUG, and to this day I consider it the best of all Tony Hawk games.

I've mostly been against their content for awhile now.  There is the occasion where I will pick up a game WHEN IT IS GOOD.  I've been tempted to pick up on Prototype and X-Men Wolverine but I just haven't gotten around to it.

 

I'd be bashing EA but they pump out a lot more interesting games, though I wish Madden would stop, or at least turn into a DLC service.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

"Grow up you self-entitled children, and learn to go without."

Boycotting is going without.  Do you not understand what a boycott is? :\

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

^This^

-- teh moominz --

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

So,  your idea is that gamers should boycott and not announce it?

Since not buying something that you actually want, is boycott...

 

criadordejogos.wordpress.com

--- Maurício Gomes twitter.com/agfgames

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

That seems to be precisely the case. Appearantly I'm "retarded" for thinking L4D was not worth my 60 bucks.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

I'll make you a deal: Activision starts giving a damn about PC gamers and I'll start considering to buy an Activision title.

Considering this:

The last time PC Gamers saw a THPS title was 4

PC Gamers will not be entitled to any of the special versions of CoD:MW2 (Great way to give customers incentive to buy!)

Ridiculous pricing on peripherals and media such as $200 for DJ Hero - not that it matters since I wouldn't buy it if I could (No PC version = No Go)

Guitar Hero is already at 5 and Metallica, Smash Hits, nor World tour are even on the PC yet.

PC Gamers had to settle for the sub-par X-Plorer Guitar for GH:3 and (unfortunately, GH:Aerosmith as well).

A Terrible Port of Prototype

An absolute massacre of an already poor game in Spider-Man 3 and a massacre of a great game in Spider-Man 2

This is just my personal opinion but I thought Call of Duty: World At War to be something of a bad joke.

Truthfully, the only highlight for Activision I can find over the past 5 years are Call of Duty 4 and X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

Outside of that, I'm not seeing much of any highlight for Activision. Now let me get an EA article so I can have some more fun :)

----
Papa Midnight
http://www.thesupersoldiers.com

 

----
Papa Midnight

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

The last THPS for PC was number 7 (American Wasteland).

PC gamers spend so much on "real hardware" that they should know they have to spend "real money" on real NGVs instead of the overpriced toy with an MW2 sticker on it Acti's selling. And a super light "metal" case (the medium edition) will only get dented. I learned my lesson with faux metal cases back when Halo 2 came out.

Prototype is perfect on PC except for lack of achievements via GFWL and the PS3's superior debris shadowing. Are you upset it doesn't have a thousand extra graphical effects settings?

EDIT: As far as Guitar Hero peripherals go, I'm pretty sure you can just get a wireless receiver for about $20 USD or so and pick up the 360 versions of the guitars. Said receiver is practically manditory to enjoy games like Prototype the way they were intended to be.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

My erorr, wasn't aware American Wasteland was on PC.

Also, not all PC gamers spend ridiculous amounts on hardware. I myself use a laptop.

Prototype's failure to correctly use the Unreal Engine, lack of support for common resolutions, and other issues including frame rate problems, etc. That's my problem with it.

Yes, you can get a get a receiver, though it's for the most part impractical. I personally prefer wired components and also use a wired 360 Controller.

----
Papa Midnight
http://www.thesupersoldiers.com

----
Papa Midnight

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Yep, all primary THPS except 8 9 and 10 are on PC.

A self proclaimed PC gamer solely playing on a laptop sounds oxymoronic. You can't expect to get full modern game performance on a non-desktop machine. Such a type of gaming lifestyle isn't on Actiblizzard's radar. But in reality, you're saving yourself some dissapointment unless you just really REALLY want a small, computer sculpted render of Soap McTavish's head.

I can't find a single article claiming Prototype uses UE3. The resolution issue is based on video RAM, and the frame rate issue is bound to be because you're using a laptop. I've never gotten a drop below 30 unless I use 4xMSAA on 1920x1080.

And the practicality of the reciever is entirely subjective. I've found it to be one of the most practical pieces of PC hardware I've ever bought, especially at a sub 20 dollar price. But this is probably because I also own a 360 and have devices to share between the two. However I agree wired controllers are slightly better than the wireless counterparts.

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

Well, I've been boycotting Activision/Blizzard for a while now. Not that I started any online petition about it but Activision and Blizzard's action have resulted in me refusing to buy any of their games.

1- I had a really bad customer service experience with Blizzard in regards to World of Warcraft. I got suspended 3 days for a stupid typing mistake and a rep basically said "too bad for you".

2- Harmonix wanted to make the Guitar Hero Les Paul compatible with Rock Band on the PS3 and Activision basically said "pay us or screw you". Even though the Les Paul was compatible on the Xbox 360 and the Rock Band Fender Stratocaster was compatible with Guitar Hero.

3- Activision dropping IPs because they can't be exploited.

4- Activision getting upset and then suing when those IPs are getting picked by other publishers. Brutal Legends by Double Fine when it was picked up by EA.

5- Activsion overexploiting certain of their franchises (the 10 Guitar Hero games a year).

6- Bobby Kotick's general attitude toward the consumers (the exploiting thing, asking Sony to lower the price of their console when they plan on sell $200 games, etc.)

Re: Angry Gamers Considering Activision Boycott

For all Star Trek fans out there, don't forget Activision's role in that franchise... "Activision alleges that "through its actions and inactions, Viacom has let the once proud Star Trek franchise stagnate and decay,""

Activision certainly didn't abuse the franchise with shitty games and refuse to support the few good ones. Oh, certainly not.

 
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Matthew WilsonSF is a tech/ economic/ trade center it should be mostly tail building. this whole problem is because of the lack of tail buildings. How would having tail apartment buildings destroy SF? having tail buildings has not runed other cities around the US/world04/16/2014 - 10:51pm
Matthew WilsonAgain the issue is you can not build upwards anywhere in SF at the moment, and no you would not. You would bring prices to where they should have been before the market distortion. those prices are not economic or socially healthy.04/16/2014 - 10:46pm
ZippyDSMleeYou still wind up pushing people out of the non high rise aeras but tis least damage you can do all things considered.04/16/2014 - 10:26pm
ZippyDSMleeANd by mindlessly building upward you make it like every place else hurting property prices,ect,ect. You'll have to slowly segment the region into aeras where you will never build upward then alow some aeras to build upward.04/16/2014 - 10:25pm
Matthew WilsonSF have to build upwards they have natural growth limits. they can not grow outwards. ps growing outwards is terable just look at Orlando or Austin for that.04/16/2014 - 4:15pm
ZippyDSMleeIf they built upward then it would becoem like every other place making it worthless, if they don't build upward they will price people out making it worthless, what they need to do is a mix of things not just one exstreme or another.04/16/2014 - 4:00pm
Matthew Wilsonyou know the problem in SF was not the free market going wrong right? it was government distortion. by not allowing tall buildings to be build they limited supply. that is not free market.04/16/2014 - 3:48pm
ZippyDSMleeOh gaaa the free market is a lie as its currently leading them to no one living there becuse they can not afford it makign it worthless.04/16/2014 - 3:24pm
Matthew WilsonIf you have not read http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/introducing-steam-gauge-ars-reveals-steams-most-popular-games/ you should. It is a bit stats heavy, but worth the read.04/16/2014 - 2:04pm
Matthew Wilsonthe issue is when is doesn't work it can screw over millions in new york city's case. more often than not it is better to let the free market run its course without market distortion.04/16/2014 - 9:36am
NeenekoTrue, and overdone stagnation is a problem. It is a tricky balance. It does not help that when it does work, no one notices. Most people here have benifited from rent controls and not even realized it.04/16/2014 - 9:23am
ZippyDSMleehttp://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/04/15/riaa_files_civil_suit_against_megaupload04/16/2014 - 8:48am
ZippyDSMleeEither way you get stagnation as people can not afford the prices they set.04/16/2014 - 8:47am
Neenekowell, specifically it helps people already living there and hurts people who want to live there instead. As for 'way more hurt', majorities generally need less legal protection. yes it hurt more people then it helped, it was written for a minority04/16/2014 - 8:30am
MaskedPixelantehttp://torrentfreak.com/square-enix-drm-boosts-profits-and-its-here-to-stay-140415/ Square proves how incredibly out of touch they are by saying that DRM is the way of the future, and is here to stay.04/16/2014 - 8:29am
james_fudgeUnwinnable Weekly Telethon playing Metal Gear http://www.twitch.tv/rainydayletsplay04/16/2014 - 8:06am
ConsterTo be fair, there's so little left of the middle class that those numbers are skewing.04/16/2014 - 7:42am
Matthew Wilsonyes it help a sub section of the poor, but hurt both the middle and upper class. in the end way more people were hurt than helped. also, it hurt most poor people as well.04/16/2014 - 12:13am
SeanBJust goes to show what I have said for years. Your ability to have sex does not qualify you for parenthood.04/15/2014 - 9:21pm
NeenekoSo "worked" vs "failed" really comes down to who you think is more important and deserving04/15/2014 - 7:04pm
 

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