Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

August 26, 2009 -

Calls to boycott Xbox Live Arcade offering Shadow Complex because it is based on the works of anti-gay rights author Orson Scott Card may be falling on deaf ears, reports gamezine.co.uk.

Card is part of the National Organisation for Marriage: founded in 2007 to act as an organised opposion against same-sex marriage. Card has personally campaigned against gay marriage, which he believes would mark an end to democracy. He further argues that homosexuality is a dysfunction...

Whatever the case, it looks like the boycott didn't work. Following rave reviews, Shadow Complex has romped to the top of the most played Xbox LIVE Arcade titles, even entering the top ten of all Xbox 360 games played online.


Comments

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

So the boycott was nothing more than a group of peoples premature ejaculation of the mouth?

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Isn't that the description of most boycotts?

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

It is the description for most internet "outrages".

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Hope you don't mind if I use that.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

As a gay dude who purchased Shadow Complex (and who was more than a little disappointed with how terrible the story was, but who enjoyed playing it nonetheless. Is that just me? It was stupid bordering on farcical), I did so, even knowing about the boycott, because, frankly, Card just isn't close enough to the project for me not to. He's not getting enough of my money for my boycott to feel like it was actually taking money away from an anti-gay rights group. Also I did take GayGamer's advice and donated an equal amount to a gay charity. Which mitigated my guilt, and still got me my fun (if ridiculously written) game.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Having looked into this a little bit, the Chair entertainment guys are also the guys behind Advent Rising -- which also brought Card in to write the story. And they are based in Utah and one of them directed some Mormon-themed movie. So it seems a safe bet that they are pretty tight with Card who is a Mormon.  I haven't heard them talk about their personal beliefs though so they might not share Card's opinions.

 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I've read a lot of his books but until I read the last article had no idea he was anti-gay...

I find it interesting though that this same type of outrage occurs in several of his books to several different characters. That says something of his writing skills I think because it's pretty accurate (If you've read Ender's Game and the sequels you know what I'm talking about). People do seem to have an unpleasant habit of getting into a "mob" frenzy and stringing someone simply because their beliefs don't agree with yours or because of misunderstandings in what they actually believe. The same thing happened to Jesus, Martin Luther King, JFK, etc. You've seen it in movies like Horton Hears a Who and it happened during the Salem Witch Trials. I'm NOT saying that Card actually is or isn't like them (that's not the issue), but the situations are the same albeit on a smaller scale. Most people look back on those situations and think how amazing it is that people actually did that...But it's so much harder to recognize when you're the one doing the attacking, when you're part of the mob... 

If you have a problem with his anti-gay articles or whatever, then counter them in the same arena, write a counter article. If you don't like the fact that he's an anti-gay activist or whatever, become a gay activist or attack his anti-gay proposals or whatever.

Just because he has personal beliefs does not mean that his work reflects them. I've used this example before, turn the situation around. Should people boycott all the Lord of the Rings Movies or X-Men 1,2 & 3 just becaue Ian Mckellan (the guy who plays Gandalf and Magneto) is a gay rights activist? Those movies have no pro-gay messages in them, do they? Did Mckellan get lots of money out of it? No doubt and likely a portion of it went into supporting gay rights and all that.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Mmmmm I still think tis silly since he didn't have much to do with the game in question. But the main point in anything like this is the sensationalism that comes up to drive home a message.

 

Personally I feel you can't have guns without abortion and individual rights, because marriage and law is no longer directly handled by the church/religion gay marrige is a non issue IE its the right of theindividual and if individuals can not have that right then they should have no freedoms at all because we need that kind of draconian order to balance society.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

 The theoretical boycott didn't work because there wasn't an actual bloody boycott.

How many times must this be pointed out? The boycott didn't happen, it was an attempt to generate outrage from those who don't know the story in any way.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Card is in fact a anti-gay douchebag. You need look no further than his Wikipedia entry for confirmation of this. Even with him being the asshole he is it is no reason to punish the developers of this game. They worked hard and I seriously doubt they made the game to side with Cards homophobia. The game developers were obviously inspiried by Cards Sci-Fi works. While I also respect what this boycott is trying to acheive as well, this is not the way to address it.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

"You need look no further than his Wikipedia entry" - are you for real?! Where did you learn how to research, Sheep-person?

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

And calling him a douchebag for being opinionated is? Just saying...

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Hurray for Chair!  Shadow Complex was a magnificent upgrade to the Metroid formula, and it deserves every scrap of its praise and success.  Now if only Nintendo would get off their ass and make us an actual Metroid game in this vein...

Not gonna address the boycott issue here, I did enough of that in the other story.  Just wanted to congratulate Chair, and be happy for their success.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

One is coming called Metroid: Other M. Team Ninja is helping with it

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

No, Other M is pretty much the exact opposite of what I want Nintendo to do with Metroid.  I have never sat there playing Metroid, and thought to myself "Gee, this is fun, but it would be so much better if it was more like Ninja Gaiden."

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Of course it was a non-starter.  It was based on factual inaccuracies, but hey we can't let that stand in the way of "outrage" after all.

It just irritates me that there are so many, who despite being told differently numerous times in numerous ways, choose to remain ignorant and hold on to their "outrage".

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

People enjoy being outraged.  Sad, but true.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

And other people enjoy watching the first set of people...*raises hand*

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

*Raises hand waving bigass flag*

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I've never heard of Card before this period. Based on what I've learned about him I won't be buying the game and won't be reading his books. I support anyone who does because from what I've learned most of his work doesn't include his opinion on gay marriage, and the game doesn't. But

I'm making a decision to avoid supporting anything connected with this author. It's not a huge influence on him but it's the only influence I have. I don't personally stand to lose anything by avoiding works connected to him, and I highly doubt any companies like Chair will go bankrupt becauseof my and other people's decisions to do this. It's simply for my own personal reasons and feelings of distaste for his opinions that I choose to avoid him, and frankly I see nothing wrong with either avoiding him and works connected to him or not, regardless of if you agree with him or not. We all make decisions about what we buy based on different factors, personal politics happens to be an important factor to me about who I support.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Well good for you I guess. But your selective morals are pretty silly. I guarantee that you have played at least one game, or read one book that was produced by someone who is very strongly in favor of something that you are very strongly against.

Plus, I could say you technically do have something to lose by avoiding works connected to him. Namely, the Ender's Game series is one of the best sci-fi series ever written. It's basically required reading for any sci-fi fan. 

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I'm sure I have played a game made or with content that was related to someone who was anti-gay. And had I known before playing it or buying it that it was I might have decided not to. My point is that there are a LOT of options in the industry, and none of them are so amazing to me that I am willing to compromise my morals or my principals to experience them. Entertainment isn't something that I feel I need to have/see/do everything in, I pick and choose and am happy with the selections I make.

To be fair I probably would never have read his books anyway since I'm not a big Sci-fi fan.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Ender's Game is my favorite book of all time and that is saying a lot as I'm a very avid reader. I was surprised that he is anti-gay, as if you actually read some of his books, they contain gay overtones in some, and a gay sex scene in another (song master or something?) I've found that I'm not a big fan of his work outside of the Ender's Game series.

Most chrsitian people are going to be anti-gay since the bible is anti-gay. Some have figured that editing the bible to remove the parts they don't like fixes that. Quite frankly, I'm not in the conversation at all, being non-religious. But are you going to swear off ALL media that might employ a christian, or anyone that doesn't share your exact ideals? If not, then shove the boycott up your game hating butt. If the game is good, it should be enjoyed on it's own merits.

It used to be that someone could voice their religious beliefs and flaming them for it was considered rude. Now, if you aren't pro-gay, you better not mention it! You'd be better off sending a youtube video bashing baby seals to PETA.

Personally, I don't have any problems with the GLBT populace, and I have some friends that are prominent members. But what really starts to chafe is when they treat it like a religion. I DON'T have to choose a side. I WILL continue to say "Go strait" when giving directions and coming to an intersection at which you don't turn (yes, that was an issue I've come across).

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I have no problem with anyone voicing their beliefs or having those beliefs for any reason. That doesn't mean I have to agree or support their work however. I don't try to force others into behaving or making decisions the way I do, I leave it up to individuals to do that. I find it odd you are all so concerned over me missing the experience of one or even several games over something that is important to me. Sadly I doubt there would be this much defense for it if the views he expressed were based on race instead of sexual orientation, but I've accepted the fact that while it's the same thing people choose not to see it that way.

As for the "treat it like a religion" comment. My sexuality is much more central to my being than ANYONE'S religion is to them. Religion is something that is taught, that is learned and that you choose. Your sexual orientation is a part of you that you do not decide and that once cemented does not change. You can repress it, which will often lead to a lot of self loathing and depression, or you can embrace it and try to live a happy life as who you really are inside. I hate to say it but it's really very ignorant to compare the two.

As for the "go straight" thing, I really don't have any comment on it. I don't see that as a problem unless you're directing someone who isn't straight to be straight.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Yeah, is it really considered living if you purposefully void out potentional encounters? Maybe it's just not a 'full life'.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Do you see every movie, tv show, play, ballet, etc. that is released? Have you read every book in the world? Have you played every game? Of course not, we make decisions based on a variety of factors. People shun movies because of racial or stereotypical undertones, gamers lambast movies and TV shows for their stereotypical representations all the time. We've ALL insulted Jack Thompson because of his views on gaming. And yet somehow it's wrong for me to choose to not support something connected to a man who has disdain for the very fact that I live my life the way I feel happiest doing so.

I lead a very full life, a full life does nto require that I let in all the crap that exists in the world.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Woah Nelly! Before I dissolve into a fit giggles: I never said what you were doing was wrong. Amusing definitely, but not wrong. Stop assuming anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint is automaticly against you. We live in a world of hues, not just black and white. I found your arogance at assuming yuou have complete control over what you will and will not encounter in your life to be funny. And I think there is a distinction between not experiencing something and actively throwing a black curtain over it.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I won't buy it.  I won't buy anything that will give Card one cent.  His fiction may be the best thing ever but I won't read it.  There are so many English language books out there that it is impossible to read them all.  So if I can knock an author's works off my list of things to read it will just make room for something else.  Life is finite.  I would rather read something by someone who doesn't feel the need to be so outspoken about his or her personal opinions than read Card's stuff and try to forget that I find his politics to be repulsive.  

The same can be said of videogames.  Shadow Complex may be the game of the year but I've got a pile of games sitting here that I haven't played yet. I think I"ll play one of those instead of that.

 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

So then...any book by any Republican or Democrat or Green party I shouldn't read or even give a chance just because I vehemotely disagree with the author's political views? Any game or movie involving someone that I disagree with politically should just be avoided by me? (By the way, that would include every single game and movie ever created unless they happened to be completely designed and made by Libertarians).

Almost everyone has at least one ideological difference that you or I would strongly disagree with, whether it be gay marriage (or homosexuality in general), abortion, torture, war/military, privacy rights, government spending, government control, affirmative action, political correctness, everything. To just avoid anything that is made by someone with a different opinion shows a large amount of immaturity.

Just because Card dislikes gay marraige (or even thinks that homosexuality is wrong) doesn't mean that he is actively trying to hurt gays or doing any more than the average person with a strong political feeling. I'd buy a book written by Obama if it was a compelling fiction book that didn't inject too many of his political feelings into the writing, and even enjoy webcomics/websites like XKCD and Cracked, even though I disagree with some of the more liberal articles/comics.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I'm not saying what you should do. I'm just saying what I do. You can do whatever you want.

 

 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

"I won't buy it.  I won't buy anything that will give Card one cent."

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you've only come across articles in the past day that choose to leave out the fact that Card was not involved with the game nor did he create the Empire Universe.  So, you know, you can buy the game.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I didn't know that Card didn't come up with it but still they paid him and even if i did want to play it I have at least 5 games to play before i get to Shadow Complex.

 

 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Tell me how it is when you get to it! The video I saw for it looked pretty cool.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Until all that boycott stuff I did not knew either...

 

I think that it is backfiring, because possible supports of anti-gay marraige are now knowing of a important person for their cause...

 

criadordejogos.wordpress.com

--- MaurĂ­cio Gomes twitter.com/agfgames

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I'd say it's worse than that. I'd never even heard of this game, and now I want to play it just to see what it's like. Forget the politics, this is just free advertising for the game. As they say, all publicity is good publicity...

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I've read a few of his books, and until yesterday, I had no idea what his views were.  So you're basically making a huge assumption that he's 'outspoken', when many people who've read his books had NO IDEA he was anti-gay marriage. 

That's some good detective work there, Batman.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

 Just because his books do not reference his anti-gay stance does not mean he is not outspoken. Furthermore, "outspoken" does not only include the people who speak so much that they have national recognition (i doubt anyone could name every outspoken critic on any subject). Frankly, if you take a very active stance and work towards those ends, i'd say you are indeed "outspoken" about those stances... as oppose to someone who is more passive, keeps their opinions to themselves, but won't lie about having those feelings if asked and would not hesitate to vote accordingly...

In this instance, Card not only written a few articles about his stance but he is also a member of the board of directors for the national organization of marriage, which works against same-sex marriage... Frankly, i think that's enough to say his outspoken... the idea that you did not know just means you did not do much research on what he does when he's not writing books. 

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

And why should we again? I didn't know reading up on the personal lives and ideals of our favorite authors was a requirement of living. All this noise is ridiculous, the proposed boycott doesn't seem to be having an effect. There's even the possibility that, *gasp* these outspoken individuals are helping the game sales. That'd be a real kick in the teeth wouldn't it?

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

My only point was that he is indeed an outspoken critic on the subject, and that is incorrect to say otherwise... Go ahead and say you don't care, or that you think it should not matter as that's your opinion and choice... but don't deny it and say he isn't outspoken about the subject... that was my point

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Ahah! How involved was he in this whole again? I'm just not understanding how avoiding something he was involved, whether greatly or not, makes any sense. If the game doesn't project his wordly views or trys shoving them down your throat then whats the damn problem? The mere fact he was in 'contact' somehow taints it? It seems intolerance really can go both ways. Sure, 'he started it' first but what kind of response is that for someone trying to rep their group or life style as responsible and okay. All they'd be doing is feeding the fucking fire.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

For me the point is not that the game or his books do or do not contain his political views.  For me the point is I'm not going to give my money to someone I know has those views. 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I don't mean that his books are all about how gay is wrong.  I mean that he doesn't keep his opinions to himself and that he feels so strongly about homosexuality being wrong that he has written at least 2 (I think at least 3 actually) op-ed columns about it.  That's outspoken to me.

 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Really?  Because I found ONE article he wrote about Homosexual MARRIAGE (not homosexuality) being a failed social experiment. 

Also, funny story; he's a Democrat.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

So he hasn't written an article (except maybe that Mormon Times one), he just blogs about it?  

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I find the distinction between "writting an article" and blogging about it irrelevant.

However, the first "thing" I linked to says at the top, "First appeared in print in The Rhinoceros Times, Greensboro, NC" which at least indicated that it appeared in a printed newspaper of some kind or other. The second one says "from Sunstone magazine" which does appear to be an actual print magazine.

 

http://www.popularculturegaming.com

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

I figured that the sunstone magazine was a religious magazine, something LDS related.

But there's a big difference.  No one gives much of a fuck what people write on their blog. It's a place for opinions, a place that isn't readily visible (you have to be looking for the topic to find his take on it).  It's not held in the same regard as something printed in a newspaper (or magazine), nor does it recieve the same circulation.

EDIT*******

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone_Magazine

So, yeah, sunstone magazine is a LDS related magazine, meaning that he was A) preaching to a group that's already on board with his Idea and B) not being published in anything near reputable.

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

So you mean that if a public figure goes out and speaks to the KKK and says "Brown people! Amirite?" his comments shouldn't be considered racist because he didn't think anyone outside of that audience would hear them?

 

BTW, read those links, he isn't just anti-gay marriage he also wants gays to be jailed, fined and put on the sex crime watchlist. 

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

Funny. I read through all three (kind of fast mind you) and found now such comments. I also went back and did a word search for jail and prison and found no instance of either of those words.

Mind posting some quotes?

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Shadow Complex Boycott a Non-Starter?

He uses the word "jail" in his piece for Sunstone magazine. He says "the goal of the polity is not to put homosexuals in jail" while simultaneously making an argument in favor of laws that criminalize homosexual behavior in order to "discourage people from engaging in homosexual practices in the first place". He seems to be saying homosexuals shouldn't be jailed simply for the sake of putting them in jail, but that they should be jailed to serve as an example to would-be homosexuals:

"Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those whoflagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society.

The goal of the polity is not to put homosexuals in jail. The goal is to discourage people from engaging in homosexual practices in the first place, and, when they nevertheless proceed in their homosexual behavior, to encourage them to do so discreetly, so as not to shake the confidence of the community in the polity's ability to provide rules for safe, stable, dependable marriage and family relationships."

It strikes me as the sort of self-contradicting position that can only be supported by blind faith.

 
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