Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

September 28, 2009 -

A few weeks ago, UPS announced that it was pulling its advertising from Fox News because it disagreed with the inflammatory views of talk show host Glenn Beck. For those that missed the flap, Beck called President Obama a racist "with a deep-seeded hatred for white people." At least 33 companies have said they do not want their ads appearing on Beck's show.

In return, it looks like Stardock CEO Brad Wardell has taken the boycott a step further. According to the Angry Bear blog, Wardell has announced on his Facebook page that he is now boycotting UPS because they pulled their ads from Fox. He said Stardock does "a non-trivial amount of shipping with UPS" and if they did not change their position, he was taking Stardock's business to FedEx. 

The amount of business that UPS would lose should amount to a minor blip on their bottom line, but Wardell's stand of boycotting the boycotter makes for an interesting debate on supporting products you like, even though the executives may disagree with their political views. The Angry Bear points to his own views of Orson Scott Card and the upcoming Shadow Complex game.

Is this much ado about nothing, or can one voice become a collective roar? How far down the line will boycotts go? Will gamers who agree with UPS now boycott Stardock? Where do you stand?

Update: Wardell emailed GamePolitics with the following:

My Facebook comment was taken considerably out of context. I could care less about Glenn Beck or whether someone advertises on their show or not. But UPS is boycotting the entire channel which annoyed me enough to ask my publishing director to look into whether it was true (it was) and have them look into Fed Ex which provided competitive pricing and make use of them for our uses.
 

 


Comments

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

So Stardock wants to boycott UPS and wants to change to FedEx. Hmmm my last three shipments with FedEx resulted in seriously beat-up boxes with one of them having it's goods damaged. I guess Stardock's customer service department being driven mad becuase their goods came damaged due to poor handling. Google "FedEx damaged my package" and see for yourself. I'm not saying that UPS doesn't do it (trust me they do) but these guys made this an artform... Seriously have you seen FedEx drivers on their routes? They drive like maniacs.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Glen Beck= Fail

Fox 5= Epic Fail

UPS pulling its ads= Epic Win

 

Did I get it right? >.<

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

" have them look into Fed Ex which provided competitive pricing and make use of them for our uses."

In other words, you're going to Fed-Ex because it's cheaper, but decided to grab for some free publicity at the same time. Ah well, I pirated my copy of GalCiv 2 anyway.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

 

UPS's boycotting of Glenn Beck is a move calculated to show their strong disagreement/disapproval of such unapologetic vitriolic rhetoric, or simply the decision to have no appearance of association with a person making such statements.

Boycotting UPS for pulling their advertising is anyone's given right, but what statement exactly is being made by such an act? Agreement with Glenn Beck that the president is a racist and despite having a white mother and white grandmother who raised him, that he has a hatred of white people? 

 

I love watching the current generation of extreme conservatives as they walk themselves off the cliff like the insane lemmings that they are.  (Someone better tell them that having a 99% white party in a country with a rapidly shrinking white majority is not a good plan for long term viability.)

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Oh Jesus, it's "couldn't"!!!!

You "COULDN'T CARE LESS"!!!!

Why are the yanks totally incapable of grasping this, you sound like idiots when you get it wrong!!!!

Think about it, you "could care less", meaning you care about it in the first place! "Couldn't care less" means that it's so unimportant you already care about it so little you couldn't possibly care in any lesser amount.

Blimey, to think you control so many guns...the mind boggles.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Maybe Brad Wardell could care less about Glenn Beck, but there were quite a few companies that cared enough about their images to pull their funding for his show. I'm all for free speech, but speaking on a national cable network to millions of people every night is not free. It costs a lot of money, and someone has to take responisbility for that money.

I could care less, as they say, about UPS or whether someone patronizes their service or not. But the boss of Stardock is now boasting publically about basing business decisions based on his support for Fox News which annoys me enough to look into the games from competing indie publishers and make use of them for my uses.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Glenn Beck is both a symtom and an instigator of what is wrong with American politics these days.  We no longer accept that people have different views and beliefs, and that there's room for compromise or even temporarily trying something different.  No, people who pursue a different path are villanized, treated as the enemy, and we must shout them down and show them no level of respect.  Both sides are guilty of this, but the Conservative movement seems to be a little extra raucous these days.  The Right would have you believe that Obama is some evil mastermind bent on our destuction, who spends his days twirling his moustache and laughing manically, then retiring to a night of clubbing baby seals just before he takes a bath in the blood of virgins.  Beck is particularly good at making people mad and blaming everything on the other side.  He's so good, that every couple months or so he has to caution his viewers to not actually commit violence, lest he get sued for instigating it. 

"Hate them, blame them, drive them out!!!  They're racists, they're nazis, they're not the America you remember, infact they hate America and everything they do is a deliberate attempt to destroy us from within!  There is no middle ground, this is a revolution, this is war!!!  (Disclaimer: this isn't actually a war, so we will not be held responsible if you commit violent crimes based on things you hear on this show)."

As for boycotts, I don't care what either company does.  It's their free right to send their dollars where they want.  I'm not going to get upset for that.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

1) I personally don't know if Obama is racist or not. Just because that pastor he knew said some crazy stuff doesn't necessarily mean Obama agrees with those opinions.

2) Even if he is racist/sexist/whatever, he's certainly no more so than anyone else at the various news networks or any other politician.

3) Glenn Beck is crazy. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. And I know I wouldn't want to be associated with that loon.

4) Even though I agree with UPS I'm not going to boycott Stardock. If they want to switch to FedEx that's their business.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

I find it ridiculous that Stardock is boycotting UPS for boycotting Fox news. Is the CEO of Starduck saying that they believe that Obama is a racist?

How exactly is Obama racist? Is it becuase he's black? No.

 

More likely , white people are calling him racist for calling out the obvious socioeconmic situation where in black,white and any other skin color has its poor. Of course, the black and hispanic minorities have a statistically larger share of poverty than white people.

90 percent of black voters voted for Obama? What the fuck do you daft people think would have happened? Are you all living your lives with thumbs in your ears to not hear the widespread DISCONTENT amongst black people against the majority white anglo-saxon protestant majority of the House and Senate?

What the hell is happening when people sidestep obvious socioeconomic defects in the US system of governance and instead blame it on a "racist" president?

I swear, all you fucking proles will be the end of this country. Serious discourse is dead, long live rumour and hate mongering.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Xzibit: "Yo Dawg, I herd you like boycotts, so I put a boycott on your boycott, so you can boycott while you boycott!

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

I disagree strongly with Glenn Beck, and his fear-mongering rhetoric, aimed not only at the president of the United States, but the US goverment in general. I support UPS in their boycott of Beck and Fox News, and I do not support Stardock in their boycott of UPS.

Therefore, I'm not going to be purchasing any further Stardock products, and I'm encouraging others to do so.

(For the record, though, I kind of wish that this had been the Stardock who put out the nasty DRM, because I wouldn't need to boycott them, because I'm already not using any products who use their DRM anyway.)

Oh, and by the way, if voting with my dollars and choosing not to support a company which either engages in business practices which I find unethical, or who supports other companies/organizations which do engage in such practices (because they engage in such practices) is wrong, then I don't want to be right.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

I think you mean "Starforce" as in the .co who makes DRM that kills your optical disk burner. 

-

GAMEPOLITICS!

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

There are no more balls.

And everyone has gone home.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

To be honest I have no problem not buying from Stardock from here one. Steam does a much better job of handling updates anyways (as in, it actually updates the products). 

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

The only reason people think boycotts will work is because one worked ONCE.  Bus boycott, back in the days of the civil rights movement.  So now everybody thinks their own little boycott will bend the world to their cause.  I say go ahead and do it, both UPS and Stardock, if it means that much to you.

And yes, American politics are retarded, and my whole country is ridiculous.  That's why I spend so much time in game worlds.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

I'm a conservative.  I don't keep this a secret to anyone and I'm actually proud to call myself a conservative.

There was a point where I didn't think Fox News was all that bad (those years have past), but they have been progressively getting more and more ridiculous.  O'Reilly has turned into a rabid madman.  And Glen Beck has just taken everything and gone full retard.

I'll also qualify this:  I think BOTH political parties, those acting as our senators and congressional representatives in Washington, have been so utterly detached from the American public and are nothing more than bought-and-paid-for shills who have sold their souls to various lobbying groups.  There is rampant corruption on BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE and the trash needs to be removed while we still have a country worth saving.

I also believe that Obama WAS born as an American citizen, nor do I believe he has been outed as a racist, nor do I believe he is the reincarnation of Hitler (as some conservative moonbats would have you think).  I also don't believe Bush was the reincarnation of Hitler (as some liberal moonbats would have you think).  Political discourse in America has turned into nothing but the slinging of mud and the spewing of raw sewage.

I am in firm favor of term limits for all federal offices and this really needs to be enacted sooner rather than later.

Where do I stand on the boycotts?

1) Glen Beck is a pompous, hot-winded gasbag who is acting as nothing more than an agitator.  He's just a famous version of an internet troll.  He is not helping the debate in any way, shape or form.  Of course, this is America and he has the right to spew his idiocy.  (Likewise, I have the right to change the channel, and there's nothing that says Fox News has to give him an outlet.)

2) UPS can do whatever the hell they want with their advertising dollars.  It's their money, after all.  I'll still use them as long as they represent the most competitive and cost effective choice for shipping something.  (They aren't.)

3) Stardock can do whatever the hell they want with their shipping choice knowing that Fed Ex is more expensive than UPS.  It's THEIR choice to become less competitive if they decide they need to make some sort of political statement.  If they make a game that looks fun to play, I'll still buy it.

4) This whole issue is just pants on head retarded.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

There is a possible mistake in this article.

Most of those companies are still advertising on FOX.  They simply requested their adds not to be aired during Glenn Beck's show.  I am not sure if UPS is one of them, or one of the few that quit FOX all together.

I honestly do not know how I will react.  Had the Stardock CEO just kept it to himself and switched shipping companies, I would not see it as a problem.  However, he has made buying his games a statement in support for Beck.  Something I find disgusting.  Personally, I would buy from any comapny who advertised on Beck's show.  That is simply business.  Nor do I really care what the CEO's political beliefs are (at least concerning their products).  But for Stardock, it is not simply a business thing.  Personally, I think this is a poor choice.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

UPS stopped buying ads on Fox on the whole, according to the original article. It appears you are correct on the other companies. I'll update the post.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

American politics is absolutely retarded, and I'm ashamed of my country for it.

They treat everything like its a goddamn football game!!!  My side no matter what!  And pray the other side fails, even if it means our country fails.

Instead, they should be arguing the issues based on the merits....not their parties talking points. 

 

I hate both parties with equal venom.

 

 

 

 

"You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

"You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

It's such a shame it's like that. I used to be a hardline liberal with us v. them mentality but then I was convinced that one of the liberal positions was wrong, and so I've grown skeptic and my opinion has changed to be a mix of the two.

Sad thing is if the guy who convinced me had talked in an us vs. them mentality I would've ignored him enitrely, so it really doesn't help much.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Makes me wonder then if Brad Wardell is a supporter of Glenn Beck?  If so, maybe I should boycott Stardock now?  They've certainly lost my business if they support a douchebag like Beck.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Right there with you.

I have generally thought well of Stardock. But if they are going to align themselves with the likes of Glen Beck and the Faux News network then maybe I need to stop buying their products.

Not that I'm actually liberal. I consider myself moderate. I have equal disdain for both US political parties as of late. But Beck is in fact a looney, and Fox is truly practicing yellow journalism so I guess I'm on the outs with Stardock.

Too bad too, Demigod looked interesting.

Good luck mixing politics with business Stardock. I'm sure you wont be around much longer now that you have discovered your soapbox.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

"Good luck mixing politics with business Stardock. I'm sure you wont be around much longer now that you have discovered your soapbox."

I don;t see you saying the same thing to UPS...

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

The difference is... I'm not selling anything while they are.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Who, UPS or Stardock? They both are, so the statement applies to both equally. Or is it simply because one is seemingly against Beck and the other seems to be supporting him which makes one companies actions fine and the others condemnable?

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

No, UPS made a statement that they don't want to be associated with a network that promotes racism (In case you missed it, Beck, and O'Reilly are racists), while Stardock says "your anti-racist boycott is stupid, let's boycott the boycotters.

They are not equal, and I for the life of me can't understand why people think it is. UPS has every reason to pull ads from Fox. Being associated with scum like Beck gives horrid publicity, especially seeing as Beck melts down slightly more every night on TV. Stardock, however, has no other reason other than the owner's nerdrageing. It is a supposed self-contradictory anti-boycott boycott is either the result of their own latant racism and furious backpedaling on the subject, or Brad Wardell is the dumbest motherfucker on the planet.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

UPS has every right to pull ads from Fox, Stardock has every right to take their business elsewhere if they disagree with this. To see it any other way is down to personal bias.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

*sigh* Of course, they have a right to do that. You completely missed the point. The decision by UPS to pull their ads has jack shit to do with politics, and everything to do with business.

IT IS BAD FOR BUSINESS TO BE SEEN AS ASSOCIATED WITH RACISM. 

Stardock, on the other hand, comes across as a bunch of whiners.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

All this boycotting stuff usually comes off as childish.  There are very few cases in which boycotting anything is warranted, ESPECIALLY in the case of political opinion. 

Just having opposing views as someone else does not mean you have to boycott, ignore, or even dislike anyone or anything.  Its little more than the petty crap you expect from adolescent children and not adults.

 

The real issue I take with all this is how ANY criticism of the President or his policy AUTOMATICALLY means you are a racist.  I have rarely seen such a disgusting state of affairs, and this time the blame falls on American leftists.  Shame on you. 

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Cry me a fucking river. Remember when saying that Bush may not have been entirely truthful in the leadup to Iraq got you branded an America-hating terrorist sympahtizer?

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

So...because it happened to liberals it makes it okay for them to do the same thing?  Thats the ideology thats been keeping the Israel/Palestein nonsense going for so long. 

Enjoy calling anyone who disagrees with you a "racist"- you have certainly earned that right after bearing a cross for 8 years.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

It's more a case of "reap what you sow, you fucking thin-skinned pussies."

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Thank you for proving that Liberals are just as useless as Conservatives.  So much for "enlightnment" and "love & peace" you people pretend to stand for?  You people and Conservatives deserve each other.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Yeah, what's wrong with me, calling bullshit on obvious bullshit. It <i>totally</i> isn't racist when people demand to see Obama's birth certificate (but not John McCain's, who was born in Panama), it wasn't racist when people made "Obamacare" posters of him as a witch doctor, it wasn't racist when that "the easter egg hunt is cancelled" thing got leaked that showed the White House with a melon patch, it wasn't racist when people called him a secret Muslim. Clearly, all of that is because of the issues, and to call these things racially inspired? Why, it's time to clutch your pearls and get a terrible case of the vapors! Why, you'd never stoop to claiming that anybody who doesn't heap praise on Bush hates America or anything of the sort!

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Yay straw men. No one ever said people don't make racist attacks at Obama, we're saying you dismiss every criticism as racism. Oh and conservative hardlines acting like idiots does not excuse you using dumb logic like "you don't like the president, the president's black, therefore you don't like black people.

The 'if you disagree you're evil' reasoning was BS when the conservatives did it and equally BS when the libs are doing it now too.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

To start with, being born on a Panamian military base still means one is an American, much like being born on an American Military base in Japan or on an American Military base in Germany.  It's still technically American Soil.

A big question that you seem to not care to notice is whether or not his indonesian citizenship makes him eligible for the presidency.  It's a question that we don't really have an answer to yet, especially since the courts don't seem to care to think about it.

And people didn't call him a secret muslim without reason; he talks about the time he spent in Indonesia and his time as a muslim.  Even when he came to America, he spent years attending  a church run by a known racist.  Would you believe he never heard a word of what Wright said?  That's as plausible as saying someone who spent years going to a Westboro Baptist Church never heard a word they said. 

How is it racist to suggest that Obamacare is as useful as witch medicine?  Would it still be useful if we used Native American Shamans?  How about spiritual healers?  Oh, but because it's someone black, that's racist.  Huh.  Damnedest thing.  Of course, we can look the other way while Obama drops our standing, ignores our troops, spends more time campaigning than fighting a war, and basically lies every time he opens our mouth.  OH, and when he wastes government money flying himself up to Copenhagen to try to convince the Olympic Committee to hold the Olympics in a shitty town.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Conservatives: Trying to justify their hatred at every opportunity.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Your fingers are moving, words are being typed. That's never a good thing.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

In a perfect world, there'd be ping-pong balls glued to the tips of all his fingers.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

It makes even less sense than the right's claim of anti-American.

If Joe Biden was president and doing the same things, you could disagree just as strongly and not be a racist.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Again, exactly the same as when the shoe was on the other foot. Blinkered much?

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Are you really trying to say the vitriol heaped on liberals from conseratives is actually the same, in quantity or quality, as that going the other way?


Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

It's the outside observer that sees the most.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

In that case the blame was on the right-wing, in this case the blame is with the "left"-wing. Your point?

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

It's ok, this is how American politics work. It's all Us vs Them. It's not about making sure your party has a good platform to run on that people agree with, it's about shitting on the other party enough to make people want to vote for you instead.

For a while now it hasn't been 'vote for the party that you want in power', it's been 'don't vote for the party that you don't like' while completely disregarding what the actual political platform that they're running on is. It's a pretty crappy setup.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

I love being american. Take a position and disagree its what we do :) However I could do with out the "Oh "insert name here" is racist" or the use of nazi. Strong terms that get more attention then the actual issue you were trying to debate. It is just circular and we end up where we start. Doing absolutly nothing to come to any type of solution or comment on the real problems.

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

American politics has become little more than two closed-minded judgemental groups who believe they have some kind of Moral Monopoly.

Conservatives think they are the only ones capable of being spritually moral.

Liberals think they are the only people capable of societal harmony- every non-liberal is considered to be a racist or sexist.

 

We need a third (or more) "side" to break this bullshit here.  But people have such an idea of "one must fail for one to succeed" mindset that it may never happen.  I blame, to an extent, the "Football Culture" of America...which I could write several pages ranting about so I'll stop here :)

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

Libertarians, that's the way to go ^^

At the very least, I support smaller government and more social rights. None of this "family values" bullshit that creates an illegal and immoral war on drugs, and none of the politically correct bullshit that has invaded from the left side.

Treat people equal under the law. If someone makes fun of you, don't sue them, make fun of them back or just ignore them. If someone is doing something that you think is "wrong," stop and think. Are they harming you in any way? If not, then there isn't any point in making that action a crime. Prostitution, marijuana use, butt sex for Christ's sake. All of these involve consenting adults and harm no outside parties. Fuck, if two clowns want to have a full-on, real duel-to-the-death, they should be able to! (After signing all sorts of papers to show that they truly wish to fight to the death over something, with witnesses and all that). The government is interjecting in everyone else's lives.

Here's another example: Hate crimes. What the fuck are those anyways? If I shoot a man because he slept with my wife, that is "hate" just like hating them for being gay, so why treat the latter differently? Hate is hate, no matter the reason, and violent crime is violent crime. Don't treat different motives as better or worse, unless they involve things akin to "this man raped my daughter so I tortured him," which is far more understandable and deserves a lesser punishment.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

I think the idea behind hate crimes is that most hate crimes (according to the logic of the law) are done to intimidate a group, basically a guy kills someone from [insert group here] to try to make a message telling everyone in the area that's [same group] that they are unwelcome/should be afraid/whatever.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
 
Forgot your password?
Username :
Password :

Shout box

You're not permitted to post shouts.
ZippyDSMleehttp://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/04/15/riaa_files_civil_suit_against_megaupload04/16/2014 - 8:48am
ZippyDSMleeEither way you get stagnation as people can not afford the prices they set.04/16/2014 - 8:47am
Neenekowell, specifically it helps people already living there and hurts people who want to live there instead. As for 'way more hurt', majorities generally need less legal protection. yes it hurt more people then it helped, it was written for a minority04/16/2014 - 8:30am
MaskedPixelantehttp://torrentfreak.com/square-enix-drm-boosts-profits-and-its-here-to-stay-140415/ Square proves how incredibly out of touch they are by saying that DRM is the way of the future, and is here to stay.04/16/2014 - 8:29am
james_fudgeUnwinnable Weekly Telethon playing Metal Gear http://www.twitch.tv/rainydayletsplay04/16/2014 - 8:06am
ConsterTo be fair, there's so little left of the middle class that those numbers are skewing.04/16/2014 - 7:42am
Matthew Wilsonyes it help a sub section of the poor, but hurt both the middle and upper class. in the end way more people were hurt than helped. also, it hurt most poor people as well.04/16/2014 - 12:13am
SeanBJust goes to show what I have said for years. Your ability to have sex does not qualify you for parenthood.04/15/2014 - 9:21pm
NeenekoSo "worked" vs "failed" really comes down to who you think is more important and deserving04/15/2014 - 7:04pm
NeenekoThough I am also not sure we can say NYC failed. Rent control helped the people it was intended for and is considered a failure by the people it was designed to protect them from.04/15/2014 - 7:04pm
NeenekoIf they change the rules, demand will plummet. Though yeah, rent control probably would not help much in the SF case. I doubt anything will.04/15/2014 - 1:35pm
TheSmokeyOnline gamer accused of murdering son to keep playing - http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2014/04/15/21604921.html04/15/2014 - 11:50am
Matthew Wilsonyup, but curent city rules do not allow for that.04/15/2014 - 11:00am
ZippyDSMleeIf SF dose not start building upwards then they will price people out of the aera.04/15/2014 - 10:59am
Matthew Wilsonthe issue rent control has it reduces supply, and in SF case they already has a supply problem. rent control ofen puts rent below cost, or below profit of selling it. rent control would not fix this issue.04/15/2014 - 10:56am
NeenekoRent control is useful in moderation, NYC took it way to far and tends to be held up as an example of them not working, but in most cases they are more subtle and positive.04/15/2014 - 10:24am
PHX CorpBeating Cancer with Video Games http://mashable.com/2014/04/14/steven-gonzalez-survivor-games/04/15/2014 - 9:21am
Matthew Wilsonwhat are you saying SF should do rent control, that has never worked every time it has been tried. the issue here is a self inflicted supply problem imposed by stupid laws.04/15/2014 - 8:52am
E. Zachary KnightNeeneko, Government created price controls don't work though. They may keep prices down for the current inhabitants, but they are the primary cause of recently vacated residences having astronomical costs. Look at New York City as a prime example.04/15/2014 - 8:50am
NeenekoI think free markets are important, but believe in balance. Too much of any force and things get unstable.04/15/2014 - 7:25am
 

Be Heard - Contact Your Politician