XBL Update to Cripple Unauthorized Storage Devices
XBL Update to Cripple Unauthorized Storage Devices
October 19, 2009
As part of its next Xbox Live Update, Microsoft will cripple the use of any unauthorized, third-party 360 storage and memory devices.
The news was announced on Major Nelson’s blog and has more than a few 360 users upset, as third-party devices are less expensive than Microsoft’s first-party offerings and have worked fine with the 360 up until now. A 4GB Max Memory Card offered from Datel sells for about $49.99, while Microsoft’s official Xbox 360 Memory Unit has 512MB of storage and sells for $29.99.
Some comments on Major Nelson’s blog praise Sony for the open architecture of the PlayStation 3, as any hard drive or USB storage device can be utilized. Xbox Live user Southpaw asked if “Microsoft made cars we could only buy Microsoft gas and drive on Microsoft roads?”
Major Nelson weighed in this morning on the 15th page of comments, saying “It took some time, but I have read all the comments here. Some interesting points that I'll be sharing.”
While this could be a way to affect 360 modders and/or hackers, what are your thoughts? Buyer beware for using a third-party device or a bad move by Microsoft in alienating its fan base?
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Posted 11/20/09 at 05:42pm
ZippyDSMlee: oh may the cute stab out your eyes, http://www.youtube.com/user/simonscat
ZippyDSMlee: oh may the cute stab out your eyes, http://www.youtube.com/user/simonscat
Posted 11/20/09 at 05:17pm
JDKJ: O.K. Suit yourself. But when you're wearing Ray-Bans, sitting on a curb with a white cane and a cup of pencils, and doing Stevie Wonder impersonations, don't say I didn't warn you.
JDKJ: O.K. Suit yourself. But when you're wearing Ray-Bans, sitting on a curb with a white cane and a cup of pencils, and doing Stevie Wonder impersonations, don't say I didn't warn you.
Posted 11/20/09 at 05:10pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:No thank you I don;t want your cooties...or STDs...
ZippyDSMlee: JD:No thank you I don;t want your cooties...or STDs...
Posted 11/20/09 at 05:01pm
JDKJ: Me. I'm rehearsing the role just in case I do get dubbed Zippy The Soecnda.
JDKJ: Me. I'm rehearsing the role just in case I do get dubbed Zippy The Soecnda.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:59pm
DarkSaber: Wait, is that meant to be Zippy, me or you?
DarkSaber: Wait, is that meant to be Zippy, me or you?
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:49pm
JDKJ: I cud caer lez. =^^= *wakes up in mid-afternoon after staying up until 3:00AM soldering resistors on to circuit boards, stumbles around in formerly white but now grey underwear, while simultaneously scratching groin with vigor and making coffee*
JDKJ: I cud caer lez. =^^= *wakes up in mid-afternoon after staying up until 3:00AM soldering resistors on to circuit boards, stumbles around in formerly white but now grey underwear, while simultaneously scratching groin with vigor and making coffee*
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:46pm
DarkSaber: knell? Don't you mean Neil? Anymore of tht and I'll dub thee Zippy The Soecnda
DarkSaber: knell? Don't you mean Neil? Anymore of tht and I'll dub thee Zippy The Soecnda
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:44pm
JDKJ: Now, now, Saber. Don't be salty. You weren't the first one to knell and bob and you ain't gonna be the last one, either.
JDKJ: Now, now, Saber. Don't be salty. You weren't the first one to knell and bob and you ain't gonna be the last one, either.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:42pm
DarkSaber: JD's feeling rather desperate it seems.
DarkSaber: JD's feeling rather desperate it seems.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:33pm
JDKJ: C'mon, Zip. You already touch yourself way too much. Spread the love. Before you go blind.
JDKJ: C'mon, Zip. You already touch yourself way too much. Spread the love. Before you go blind.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:27pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:No and I ain't touching any part of you or your friends!! :P
ZippyDSMlee: JD:No and I ain't touching any part of you or your friends!! :P
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:25pm
JDKJ: @Zip: You know Lik Mitaint?
JDKJ: @Zip: You know Lik Mitaint?
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:18pm
ZippyDSMlee: neill and bob,oldest giveing head joke and most lamest...
ZippyDSMlee: neill and bob,oldest giveing head joke and most lamest...
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:18pm
JDKJ: But thanks for the memory. MIB's a classic. *sings* "Here come the Men in Black. Galaxy defenders. Here come the Men in Black. They won't let you remember."
JDKJ: But thanks for the memory. MIB's a classic. *sings* "Here come the Men in Black. Galaxy defenders. Here come the Men in Black. They won't let you remember."
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:18pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:for the record I told you you can suck your own dck.
ZippyDSMlee: JD:for the record I told you you can suck your own dck.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:07pm
JDKJ: Naw, man. That's Mueedeegiaap and Bob. And you can stop bobbing. I got Zippy bobbing now, too.
JDKJ: Naw, man. That's Mueedeegiaap and Bob. And you can stop bobbing. I got Zippy bobbing now, too.
Posted 11/20/09 at 03:56pm
DarkSaber: OH I get it now! It's Men In Black quote! The twins that run the comm centre in HQ.
DarkSaber: OH I get it now! It's Men In Black quote! The twins that run the comm centre in HQ.
Posted 11/20/09 at 03:49pm
JDKJ: I'd like to introduce you to them. First, Neil. Then, Bob.
JDKJ: I'd like to introduce you to them. First, Neil. Then, Bob.
Posted 11/20/09 at 03:47pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:I know they are intimate friends of yours...
ZippyDSMlee: JD:I know they are intimate friends of yours...
Posted 11/20/09 at 03:44pm
JDKJ: @Zip: You know Neil and Bob?
JDKJ: @Zip: You know Neil and Bob?
Copyright © 2007 ECA. All rights reserved.
Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Comments
In the case of the company, I'm not surprised, Microsoft have a reputation for pulling, or attempting to pull, stunts such as this.
Personally, I'd say it's another case of using too broad a brush, I think Microsoft have fallen into the trap of dividing 'Pirates' and 'Customers' into two distinct and different groups of people (despite the fact they must have bought the XBox at the very least) and don't realise that the Venn diagram is far more over-lapping.
Personally, this has now moved the XBox out of consideration as a console for me, Microsoft like their monopolies a little too much for me to believe this is motivated on behalf of the customers themselves in any way.
GRU
If you don't have a 360 by now you are not a customer they are interested in. I think over the next few years until the next box comes out they are going to ratchet up security messuers in a almost blind fashion to try and show developers they are a safe platform.
Like it matters when you sell milloins of software units regardless of piracy .
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
It's silly really, because people will buy what is cheap and available, they won't know that their console is locked against the new storage they have just bought, and you can be certain the company selling them won't care, there might be grounds for refunds in some countries, but the chances are that many will just need to keep an un-upgraded XBox in-store, and when the customer returns the goods just say 'Look, it works on ours, it must be a problem with your 360'.
ya it is silly but they are trying to lock the security holes down befor plug in mod devices hit, thats the only reason I can see for it. Then again it might be just another MS dim tactic to lance the boils off the bottom line.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Just to be totally clear.
This only effects un-approved third party memory devices.
This does not effect approved third party devices.
Every article I've seen on this has shifting language that makes that unclear.
Well, that makes a bit more sense, but, to my mind, it doesn't tie up with Microsofts ongoing spiel on compatability and user-centrism, quite the opposite in fact, I suppose it's kind of like Memory chips for cameras, whilst I'm sure that the company would prefer you to buy their own brand, I'm not sure setting out to make the camera in-compatible with anyone else's is a smart move from the perspective of the customer.
why even bother? loading old frimware will fix that problem, so if you keep a system offline it pretty much makes whatever they are trying to do moot.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
However, until you update you'll be unable to access Xbox Live. Unless MS plans to make this an optional update (which I have NEVER seen), before you can use any online services you'll need to update your console.
Thomas P.
and if you don't use live?
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Thing is, it isnt just Microsoft, if it only affects un-approved devices. Nintendo just released more DRM that shut down un-authorized modded Wiis (and some authorized UN-modded Wiis).
I can promise you, Sony will be following suit. So all you PS3 guys need to quit laughing!
Can we get a modded PS3 frist? And see what crazy thigns $ony with do?
Really tho the only way to prevent most modding is to make all new games only work on new firmware,peroid.
Then again it would only slow thigns down some as people will just tweak teh frimware that much more.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Closed<Open, I miss the days of code breaker and game genie and gladly trade them for meaningless trophies and redundant online play.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
To be fair, it's entirely within the designers right to have propitary systems in place, and replacing those systems for non-propitary hardware is not in itself illegal, but they can refuse support for things like technical support or in this case Xbox Live.
Not when I don't need a HDD jsut use acouple 4GB mem cards cheap as a better longer laster mem sulustion.
This is a step backwards, if they were targeting something more valid than compeition I could not call this BS chips.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I suppose to a degree this hinges on the architecture of the input slot, if Microsoft are using non-generic hardware for the connector, then there may be more grounds for concern about copyright theft and abuse, from that position, at least, there are understandable reasons for concern, it's not so much the problem that I'm worried about, it's the solution.
GRU
as far as I know they are sueing a modifed USB connector still,that or they are useing USB, they arte just pissy people dare to stick a flash drive on it and sale it for the going rate.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I agree, and storage solutions for Xbox 360's totally suck, but they still have the right to "If your going to be on Xbox Live you cannot use "x" memory."
They have the right to...and I have the right to find workarounds, so whats the point of it all again?
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
What's the basis for that right? Is there something proprietary about their memory? Or some other purpose that's furthered by blocking "x" memory from use? Other than the purpose that doing so increases MS' sales?
JDKJ
They own certain parts of the hardware design of this I am sure, I would assume its mostly the conector design. Also MS could technicly sell them the conector rights but still not apporve the device just ignore it untill they are ready to deal with it.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Support might actually be the behind the scenes push here.
I used to work for a company that made embedded gaming devices with a hard drive. 3rd party drives caused us nightmares since even if they supported the same standards they could have all sorts of differnt characteristics that would effect gameplay, like how much caching they were using, what kind of writethrough, or even how they implemented their sleep systems.
We ended up putting checks in our software for 'approved' drives not bcause of selling the disk, nor stoping pirates, but because of all the 'your software sucks!' complaints that were traced back to some 3rd party drive that behaved wrong. And unfortunatly, modders tend to look at a few numbers 'right size, right rpm, right interface, this should work!' and then blame the cosole manufactuer
Ah now there is a good explanation, tho why not take them to court as well I wonder and make a exsample out of them that they need to go through the approval process?
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
In our case at least, the 3rd party people were not doing anything wrong. In fact most of the time people just used off the shelf drives from best buy or something. We could not sue seagate or bestbuy, and we did not want to attack our actual customers... but the drive issues became a HUGE problem since it hurt our product's image every time something went wrong.
Microsoft might be able to do one of those things, but they are big enough to piss people off. Smaller companies need to be more careful.
A 4GB Max Memory Card offered from Datel sells for about $49.99, while Microsoft’s official Xbox 360 Memory Unit has 512MB of storage and sells for $29.99.
@GP: Did y'all lose something in the translation or am I losing something in the reading? As I read it, the above doesn't support the case that Mircosoft's memory is more expensive than third-party memory. Rather, it supports the opposite case.
4GB for 50.00 vs 512MB for 30.00
Look at what you are paying for.
Ahhh. *slaps open palm sharply against forehead and promises to spend some time figuring out the difference between a "GB" and a "MB"*
Bro you got zippy hoof and mouth woes!
^_~
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Didn't I already ask you to refrain from putting me in your boat? It really does give me a "cooties all over" feeling.
Thats zippy love brother, zippy love, just don;t mind the rash. :P
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
A quick check of Gamestop.com shows me a 60GB hard drive for $99.99.
Or a refurbished 20GB HDD for $49.99.
So HOW is a 4GB unlicensed 3rd party memory unit for $50 ACTUALLY good value for money?
It's a false economy, 3rd part accessories always have been. Ever since the original Playstation controllers and memory cards made by anyone other than the official manufacturer have been poor quality and unreliable. As a result every sinbgle accessory I bought for my 360 is an official MS one. Every single one is still working fine.... (just a pity about the console itself!).
Your comparison is flawed. The article is referring to memory cards, not hard drives. The 360 only has one hard drive slot, after all. Not much you can do if your drive is full aside from using memory cards. And a quick check of gamestop.com shows that a 512-MB official 360 memory card is indeed $30.
---
I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.
Not to mention hard drives might last 5 years or 10 years or 2 years.... in this isntant flash is more relaible...
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
This doesn't bother me. I refuse to use any off brand memory cards after a nyko card fucked up one of the slots in my PS2.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
I only have Nyko cards for my PS2. No reason to buy the PS2 brand cards. Never had a problem with it.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
The luck is strong with this one.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Erik
A bad card from any maker can fry soem fo the PS2 mem ports >>
Also sometimes the fuses will blow randomly...god the frist tiem I tried to repalce one of those fuses was the last time... >>
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Well the sad thing is the guy at the Gamestop I bought the Nyko card from told me not to buy the Nyko card. I pretty much told him that he was worrying too much and that I'll take my chances.
Oops.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
If the unauthorized third-party manufacturers aren't using any of Microsoft's proprietary methods, then shouldn't Microsoft rendering their devices nonfunctional (and therefore effectively unsaleable) constitute an unfair restraint of trade? Do they have any right to force these competitors from the market by crippling the functionality of their product? That the consumer now ends up paying more for less (as was kindly pointed out to me by Brokenscope) would seem to be an obvious anti-competitive effect.
I am sure MS owns the conector format they would ahve to buy that from them, the rest is really up to the manufaturer.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
The thing is, Microsoft DOES license out 3rd party hardware to companies like MadCatz who can make 3rd party memory cards. If companies like Datel are making unlicensed memory cards, then what purpose is there a license.
Like it or not, the 360's memory solutions are a part of Microsoft's technology. They do have the right to protect themselves against unlicensed hardware because, when the hardware fails, Microsoft will get the blame even those the hardware is "unauthorized."
Defenestrator
there is no need to ban the devices when you can sue them for various IP violations, soemthing else is going on here.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
For once, Zippy has a good point. If the unauthorized third-party manufacturers are ripping off Microsoft's proprietary hardware, why not take legal action against them for the rip-off? That way, they're not alienating their customer base who have already purchased an unauthorized flash and are now stuck with a $30 piece of unusable junk? In addition to now having to go out and purchase Microsoft's more expensive flash if they want to continue enjoying the benefits of a flash.
I have my good dayz 0-o
theya re jsut farer and fewer in between these days >>
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Few and far enough apart to stick out eh?
Gotta say Zip this is the most I have ever seen you post on one subject, be it personal or be thee bored?
As for the subject matter... They do have a right to protect themselves (amazingly while keeping the prices up but I digress). Mind you they Could reach some kind of agreement with these 3rd party vendors but such is not in their best interest is it? Nope they have to act the way of a schoolyard bully oe with the "our ball, our yard, our games, our rules" mentality.
Of course they have shown once again that their comsumer base is not exactly high on thier list of priorities. But this is not news.
You would think with all the problems and bad history the 360 has had to date they would be a bit more... forgiving, but alas such is not the way of big business.
It costs considerable money to sue one company, let alone ANYONE they didn't greenlight (which is very few). Add to it that Datel is UK, not American, which adds to the cost, and they aren't alone.
A code rewrite which blocks them is cheaper, more effective, and they can say it's the unauthorized manufacturer's fault for not getting permission.
(this is in no way defending them, just offering a potential reason)
Anyone who touts the glories of the free market should be outraged. Rather than compete against a superior value, microsoft has chosen to block it. This takes power away from the consumer and stifles the competition needed to push technology forward.
Where are da Republicans!?
Vinzent
US politicians side with monopolies...that said these days you need IP paper work in triplicate to ensure you are not offending any entity that can sue you, so if there are no IP violations then whats the real truth of the matter?
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Um, this is well within the boundaries of the free market.
The free market implies that the government has no influence, not that companies can't prevent others from interfacing their product.
In reality, forcing people to make their hardware physical and software compatible with someone else products would be a violation of the free market.
In a truly "free" market, one competitor wouldn't take unfair punitive action against another competitor. Rather, it would be left to the consumers to punish a truly offending competitor by withdrawing their support for the competitor's product. Isn't that the premise under the "build a better mousetrap" rule?
Nothing in the ideology of free market says I have to make my product compatible with your product.
Lets really look at what a true free market is.
No regulations
No patents
No trademarks
No regulation
No suing someone because they broke your copy protection scheme.
No suing someone because they figured out the signing key you used on your external memory modules and put it onto their memory modules thus allowing their memory modules to be used on your xbox.
I mean really, this isn't about the free market. This may at some point in the future morph into an issue about IP law.
True. In a free market, Microsoft is perfectly within bounds to alter their equipment to be incompatable with accessories they do not approve of. Just as it is within the bounds of the makers of said accessories to adjust their accessories to overcome the new walls in the equipment they want to connect to.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
Exactly.
However we don't have a free market. We have the DMCA.
So any attempt at making unauthorized third party mem units usuable will probably be considered a violation of Microsofts IP.
So, it would also be a perfectly acceptable business practice in your free market for sellers to collude and artificially fix the price of their common product?
In a true "free market"? Absolutely.
Well, I think it's bullshit on Microsoft's part, as my 20Gb HDD is almost as full as it can possibly be (having gotten rid of videos, unneeded demos, etc etc), and I sure as hell don't wanna buy a puny 512Mb memory card...However, it is their right, even if I don't like it. Bleh.
-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-
This seems to be, or is less about hardware compatibility issues and more about edging out competition.
Instead of adjusting prices ot match your competitior who IS offering a better product, or heaven forbid put R&D inot making ab etter product, shut your competition down and make sure they can't compete under any circumstances.
They don't need to make a better product. They just want to keep prices artificially high on things like the hard drives.
And give a 12 month warranty on a product that expires in 13 months.
Pretty certain that if they coudl get away with rigging their consoels ot break down JUST after the warranty expires, they would.
Yep. Microsoft knows they are making nothing on the console itself so they make the connections for the hard drive proprietary so they can sell hard drive space for 10 times the market value and make all their money there.
This is the same reason why nearly 10 years later, 8MB still costs $25 for the PS2.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
So, Bill Gates has decided to adopt Apple's Business Model....
Really not something I'm going to worry about..
Now the fact that my Elite is trying to kill itself by means of freezing and screen artifacts.. That is something I'm concearned with..
Feels like $475.00 down the drain soon...
It is really quite ridiculous as those memory units are overpriced and under-capacity. Where do you even get flash memory that is less than a gig (or GiB) nowadays anyway?
How does one become "authorized" in the first place? I haven't seen any "authorized" third party peripherals aside from a smattering of controllers for the 360. Do they even have such a program?
Probably not, and it doesn't seem like they'll want to create one.
All I have to say is that Microsoft must really enjoy being dragged into court for engaging in uncompetitive practices.
At least I finally understand that one Family Guy joke
"Bill, Peter is an anti-trust lawyer with the justice department" *Bill punched Peter in the face*
I seriously hope this is just memory cards and not HDDs. I ordered a "refurbished 120gb hdd" online two weeks ago and it turned out it wasn't first party like the site said it was. But it still worked so I kept and use it. I hope I can fit all my saves on this tiny 256mb card that came with my replacement pre-jasper arcade unit.
Also what about games running on the device? He just mentions profiles and saves.
Same here, after not one but two official microsoft hdds die on me within 4 months I bought a 3rd and used it to turn a good old western digital drive to copy the officialy hd onto it using "the Method"(not sure what GPs policy is about openly talking about what the indrusty considers a "pirating" method so we'll leave it at that) and haven't had a problem for almost 2 years now. Would hate to lose all of my data when microsoft inevitably force you to install it to play any game.
my vote: bad move by Microsoft in alienating its fan base
whatever malicious things you can do with an unauthorized storage device you can also do with the certified ms device.