Are you getting Modern Warfare’d out yet?
Spoilers below, so avoid reading if you are in a self-imposed Modern Warfare 2 blackout.
Outside of issuing a rather benign statement, since leaked video surfaced that showed gamers apparently playing a role in a terrorist attack Activision and developer Infinity Ward have been relatively quiet in regards to Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2.
Actually, quiet is a relative term, and fitting if you don’t include the ill-received F.A.G.S. video released, and then pulled, at the end of last week. Anyway, in response to a thread on the GetOffTheX website forums in which the leaked footage was being discussed, inside information on the title was shared from someone claiming to be a member of the Infinity Ward development team.
On the initial internal reaction to the action in the leaked level:
I work for IW. When I heard what they wanted to do I KNEW it would be a bad idea. They said that it needed to be done to get the right "feel" and that it was part of the story.
After some more give and take about the subject on the forums, the user came back and added:
I can't tell you how many people thought this level was a bad idea. The higher ups wanted to push it. Activision gave them the thumbs up and they went with it.
More on the player’s role in the terrorist scene in question, perhaps answering the question of what “skipping” means exactly:
You are under cover. You have joined a bad guy team and they are going to set up "the Russians" What you do is shoot stuff up but not the bad guys or people in the airport.
GP: This jibes with a higher-resolution video of the level in question that is currently on the MapModNews website. This version of the video actually shows a player shooting a civilian in the airport. The action immediately stops and a warning in German pops up on the screen, “Sie haben einen Zivilisten getroffen. Vorsicht beim Feuern!” Google translates this as “They have taken a civilian. Be careful when firing!” While certainly something is lost in the translation there, the fact that the level restarts when you shoot a civilian certainly implies that you are merely an observer in this mission.
Thanks Dan!




Comments
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
In response to all the above comments about people being "moved" in one manner or another (or not being moved at all in some cases), that's the entire point of the entire scene. I don't really call it a level honestly, as what takes place just rolls along irregardless of what you do. The point of it all is to feel revulsion, anger at what happened. The scenes of people trying desperately to save themselves or others, even if totally in vain (the one guy dragging himself with a chest wound, I personally think would not have long to live in any case) are meant to hit at these core bits of you.
It's meant for you to hate Makarov. Some news outlets say that because you can particpate, you 'remove' his part of it. Hardly. He is the one who orchestrated it, who led the attack and shows no hesitation in opening fire. The age of Villans simply twirling their mustache and tying Nell to the railroad tracks are far behind us. We demand as consumers villans who have reasons for what they are doing, and who are truly villans. A villan who tries and fails repeatedly is an incompetent boob to laugh at (see Thompson). A successful villan is a character we recognize who has the potential, the skill, and the ability to succeed at his acts and
For me, I'm of eastern european descent, so I can in a way see and hear myself on the other end. I know enough russian to understand what some of the civillians are screaming in between the gunfire.
As for the actual reality of this, something not unlike it happened only what, two years ago at most? Just replace Russia with India, and an airport with a railroad station. Just as bloody, just as merciless. We just never got to see it unfold right in front of us.
This isn't shakespeare by any stretch, but honestly, as much as I hate MW2 for gameplay and implementation reasons, I think at least this time they've worked to put together a compelling, and honestly much -better- story than anything else.
Best keep your wits about you: The gears of life are always spinning, and ignorance eventually means you'll get caught in them.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Bollocks to that, if I was playing the game (which I wont be because it looks boring) I'd be setting myself the goal of shooting more civilians than the other terrorists.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Well, at least you make no attempt to hide the fact you're an idiot. It makes it easier to ignore your posts.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Amen to that.
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Maybe someone has already pointed this out (I can't tell 'cos I just woke up and am having trouble reading - my eyes suck) "“Sie haben einen Zivilisten getroffen. Vorsicht beim Feuern!”" actually means "You have encountered a civilian. Watch your fire".
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
According to German sources, the international versions let you shoot civilians. Restarting the level was changed specifically for the German version.
In Germany, Activision actually managed to piss of both camps of this discussion. Those against this mission are still pissed of by its existence in the international versions, and those for it are pissed of because it was cut from the German version even though the game was announced to be released uncut in Germany.
I for one am most annoyed because Activion is still maintaining that nothing was cut from the German version.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Well... nothing was removed really. Just made it so you can't do certain things. So... yeah. Technically.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
You guys do realise that it's just a game right? I thought us gamers could tell the difference between reality and fiction?
Apparently you can't. Oh and this is the German version, clearly it's censored. There have been videos where the player shoots EVERYBODY.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
iceman654,
You do realize that people can be emotionally affected by fictional stories and characters even when they know it isn't reality, right? Were you somehow under the impression that you were the only person on the planet who realized that Othello and Old Yeller aren't real?
Check out my video game humor and commentary blog, Pointless Side Quest!
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
A film is just a film, doesn't mean it's incapable of causing an emotive response, even if it's just fiction. The argument isn't that anyone thinks it is reality, the argument is that the fantasy being depicted is quite powerful and emotional. I don't think anyone is saying it's a bad thing, but if someone watched a depiction like that and wasn't moved, then I'd be a bit concerned about them.
I'd love to know where on Earth you got the idea anyone thought this was reality, especially when your post doesn't tally in the slightest with most of the posts on this thread?
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Wasn't moved in the least, was actually quite bored. But then again, you can't expect me to be emotionally responsive to pixels I have yet to know.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
You don't know the photons being displayed on the screen in a movie either.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Hence why I don't really mind when the busty chick gets killed at the beginning of slasher flicks.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Exactly, as I said earlier, this is no different to scenes from some films, however, the purpose is, in general, to invoke an emotional response. Though, admittedly, Slasher movies are frequently so badly made that it's hard to empathise with someone who you are actually hoping will hurry up and die. So if it succeeds in creating such a response then it means the scene was well made, if it doesn't, then it means it wasn't, at least for you, which seems a bit strange, because it's invoked an emotional response in most people have viewed, be that response positive or negative.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
To me these people ARE that busty chick. Their only purpose is to be shot in a horrifying way to make a point. Hence why I don't feel a thing. I'm used to such story plots.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
That might happen over in the german version, but based on this version (English, XBOX so I presume american release) certianly no warning happens when you go full auto.. www.gameanyone.com/video/171701
Best keep your wits about you: The gears of life are always spinning, and ignorance eventually means you'll get caught in them.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Wow. I can't imagine why Activision wants this off the Internet, because it's made me want to play the game. It's one hell of a set piece.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
I have no doubt that they don't see the leak as anything but free marketing.
People are talking about it, which means more people will buy the game to see the sequence. It's a complete boon for Activision.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
I don't mind violence as much as the next Vogon, but I find this footage is considerably disturbing and unsettling. Especially the bit with the civilian dragging himself across the floor, leaving a blood trail behind. I'm all for video games trying to move beyond the perception of being a child's toy by implementing mature themes, but there has to be a better way to do it than this
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
I can understand this feeling, but I have to disagree. In particular, I thought the part you mention, the bleeding civilian trying to crawl away- as well as a similar moment, where a man was shot dead as he tried to pull a wounded victim to safety- were really effective. It drives home that the carnage we're witnessing isn't cool or fun, it's monstrously evil and cruel. It was stuff like that that stopped it from seeming juvenile or sadistic to me.
Check out my video game humor and commentary blog, Pointless Side Quest!
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
*sigh* This reminds me of when Mortal Kombat first came out. Personally I think the Microwave Scene is more emotionally stirring then this, but that's just me. If you truly think that this is the worst violence in a video game, then that's just sad. The only thing that makes this so much more is that it hits home for many people.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Never seen that scene, what happens in it?
I haven't played every game before, but this is the first game that I've heard of that has a disturbing scene like this that is also not there just for shits-and-giggles like some things you may/may not find in GTA-like games (or Manhunt, or The Punisher, or whatever).
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Sorry, I hate when I disappear for a day or two and get replies. Basically what I was talking about was a scene from Metal Gear Solid 4 and am trying not to spoil anything. The scene was very well done since you got a chance to know the characters in it. As for the other scene in this game, well, I can't be expected to feel sorry about something I know for a fact is fake in a game that I couldn't care less about. If it were real, or I was interested, then maybe something, but all I feel right now is disgust at the people who think there aren't worse things out there.
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Who really thinks that though?
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
The reason those games are different is because the reaction of the people is decidedly unrealistic, and the game never pretends to be real.
In this scene, they act like real people. It can be quite hard to stomach, even for those used to chopping off limbs while laughing manically (Die by the Sword), strangling targets with fibre wire (Hitman) or killing people for points (Carmageddon). This hits a completely different nerve.
Oh yes, the list of very violent games I've played is quite long. This game seems to hit some sort of "uncanny valley" like robots do when you try to make them too much like humans.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Oh god. Like, I honestly am almost to tears and almost about to throw up after watching that. That is one of the worst things I've ever seen before. It was one thing to just have all that death, but the player in the video fully participated, trying to hit every. single. one. Ugh.
I don't know what to think about this. On the one hand, holy fucking shit. That may have been the most extreme thing ever put into a game. On the other...oh my god. The thought of being one of the HUNDREDS of civilians during that...
I guess it's a good thing that the level gets a reaction out of you, it makes you angry and scared and upset, but I wasn't expecting it to be nearly as cringe-worthy as that. It got a reaction, something that most games don't have other than "fun."
And the ending! What the hell! All of that! For THAT! They could've done something a little better than that, something close to the shock and awe that the rest of the level had.
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
....You've got to be joking....
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I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
"Oh god. Like, I honestly am almost to tears and almost about to throw up after watching that."
Seriously?
Andrew Eisen
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
"Oh god. Like, I honestly am almost to tears and almost about to throw up after watching that."
Seriously?
I certainly hope you're not judging this person over their reaction, Mr. Eisen.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Nope, merely questioning whether his stated reaction was legitimate or hyperbole.
Andrew Eisen
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Well as reactions go, it IS a bloody stupid one.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Oh come on. Surely you've gotten emotional (as in upset/sad) from a movie before. In Titanic, when all of those innocent people are dying. In I Am Legend when his dog dies. Maybe even Zombieland when you find out the truth about Talahassee's "pup" (which was particularly emotional for me because my best friend's dad was sitting right next to me in the theater when we saw it together. My best friend had passed away in August, I can't imagine how his dad felt). I wasn't bawwing my eyes out or anything, it just seemed to hit home to me, something about innocent people dying. Try watching Flight 93, which is based off of the plane that crashed into a field in Pennslyvania in the 9-11 attacks without getting any emotional response. I think my response was fairly appropriate if we are looking for video games to be considered more as a serious art form instead of just "lolz fun killin ppl," being able to garner emotional responses from people, in the same way that depressing scenes from movies can make an emotional response.
Jeez, I say one sentence and everyone assumes that I'm a giant pussy or something. Different crimes/deaths/situations hit home a lot harder for different people, and this one hit hard for me. This is coming from a guy that LAUGHS at accidental death videos seen online and gore pictures that are posted on 4chan, yet still assisted the internet in tracking down that douchebag that was torturing his cat and posting vids of it online. Some things are just really emotional for me. A good example is a speech about dog grooming that a student gave a couple weeks after my dog who I had had since I was 5 died. That speech for whatever reason was just really depressing for me.
Also, I *do* have mild depression and/or bi-polar disorder (I stopped seeing the psychiatrist before he made a formal diagnosis), I might've just been sad that day.
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
You do not need to explain/rationalize/justify your feelings towards the content, chadachada321.
The level of reaction it got here (of all places) is a shame.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Thank you. It's fine if you don't get any emotional response from the game, I have laughed during "sad" scenes before, like in the movie "No One Would Tell," when they found the girl's body and her mom/friend were crying and whatnot. Sure, *I* might not find it emotional, but if someone else does, I don't call them a pussy, I don't make fun of them and whatnot. Emotion impacts everyone differently (except DarkSaber who claims to not have emotions), I'm not about to make fun of somebody that got an emotional response out of the deaths of hundreds of innocent on-screen pixelated humans (or even just one death), because the symbolism attached can hit hard for some people.
That is of course assuming that you were siding with me instead of the people making fun of me.
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
I'm not making fun and I find it ridiculous that people here are.
And you're excused, DarkSaber.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Well excuuuuuuuuse us for not being pussies.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Titanic gargles donkey balls, I Am Legend is a pile of wank and I've never seen Zombieland, and probably never will. I also couldn't give a toss about about some people on a plane who died. Everyone dies, why should I care?
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
...uh...it is kind of part of being human to care about other humans. I mean, you don't HAVE to care, if you just don't, but you're telling me that you've never cried before, even about death?
Also, if you're an atheist like me, the death of someone else means that if i'm right, i'll never speak to them ever again. That's kinda depressing. Especially if the death is far premature by people causing it just to cause people harm.
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Everyone dies boyo.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
I like how in previous posts, you have tried to talk about how the whole purpose of this scene is to provoke thought and emotion, and then when someone does feel something, he's an idiot and you downplay the whole scenerio with "HURF DURF EVERYONE DIEZ".
Pick a side already, tired of seeing you flop back and forth over the line like a dying fish whenever it is convenient for your opinion.
I personally think this scene could have been even more powerful had you been a civilian, without having you shooting people.
But hey, this is one hardcore gamer of 15+ years talking to other hardcore gamers. I've never seen anything in a game, ANYTHING, that made me cringe like this. Realistic actors, sounds, people running away screaming, dragging bodies in some desperate attempt to survive... why the fuck are we trivializing this content, and why are you idiots saying "OH MAN I TOTALLY WANT TO SHOOT THESE FUCKERS." What, are you 14 years old? Grow up. This scene crossed the line.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
"I like how in previous posts, you have tried to talk about how the whole purpose of this scene is to provoke thought and emotion,"
No I didn't. Not once. Mong.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
It wasn't just the civilians dying, it was that the player actually did it the entire time. Idk, I got put into the skin of a civilian during the video. It wasn't like I was on the verge of tears really, but like on the verge of dry-crying. I got that "can't breath as well" feeling, with the back of my throat starting to hurt and feel dry/clogged up. Imagine crying for a little bit, but without the tears, that's how I physically felt. It was incredibly "what the fuck," considering I've never seen "real" terrorist attacks like this before. I've seen people die, and I might cringe a little when I watch a person actually being beheaded, but I've never felt quite the way I did right there before, except for the one time when I saw the "Ukranian Screwdriver Murder" video, it was that bad to me. I know it sounds like I'm a wimp or something, but something about that video (particularly the way the player was playing it) hit me hard.
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Oh come on! It's a GAME. It's not real. No civilians die. They are machine code that always acts a certain way based on a game trigger. Their movements were determined months ago in a motion capture studio by ACTORS.
I mean, isn't this the whole tempest in a teacup right here - some people just can't accept that it's a game, while the rest of us don't see why there should be a fuss in the first place. Hell, the movie Elephant showed a thinly veiled version of the Columbine High School shootings, and that made some folks sick to their stomachs, but no one pulled the movie before it was screened - BECAUSE IT WAS A MOVIE - it wasn't real, and that particular movie was trying to elicit an uncomfortable response. Why do videogames get treated any differently? Why can't videogames make us THINK for a change?
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Uh...that's exactly what I'm saying. I got to THINKING because of this scene. This elevates this game to the status of any movie that has made me have a similar feeling (come on, surely you've cried during Titanic or something before, died at the depiction of hundreds of innocent deaths). Of course I know it's a game, just like Titanic is a movie. But the actions in the game (like the deaths in the movie) are based off of real life events that have cost hundreds/thousands of lives, and it got an emotional response out of me. That's a good thing. The feeling I got would be closely compared to when
*SPOILER ALERT FOR THE MOVIE "I AM LEGEND"*
his dog got infected, and Will Smith had to put him down the in the emotional way that he did. Not enough to bring me to tears, but enough to get a "oh wow... imagine if that were true, I couldn't handle losing my only companion that I've had for the past 3 years, etc," and make me get a little queasy inside.
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
I must admit, there was a point or two in there that certainly impacted me emotionally, but then, I suppose that is the point, I find myself wondering, though, whether the game reacts differently depending on whether you fire on civilians or not, I'd be a little bit leery of the suggestion that, even when under cover, there would be no comeback from your bosses for gunning down innocents in an airport.
It's one of those real ethic-testers in a way, like the 'do you harvest?' dilemma in Bioshock (never did), which is good in one way, but only serves to stress how important it is that people get their heads around the idea that games aren't just for kids.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
"...I find myself wondering, though, whether the game reacts differently depending on whether you fire on civilians or not..."
I've seen video of the stage where the player shoots everything that moves and one where the player doesn't fire a single shot. The result is the same in both playthroughs.
Andrew Eisen
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Yeah, I've just read further up the thread, where it's clarified what happens, kind of a pity in a way, because it might 'close the book' on the incident, but it doesn't really make it anything other than a gratuity from appearences.
That said, I haven't played the game, so I'm certainly not dealing in definites here.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
“Sie haben einen Zivilisten getroffen. Vorsicht beim Feuern!” Google translates this as “They have taken a civilian. Be careful when firing!”
You hit a civilian. Be careful when firing!
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
The lack of interactivity in the matter means that this is no worse than the scenes from some movies, and considerably less gruesome than the scenes from some other movies, but that said, watching the Video does leave you with an uneasy feeling that you should be taking action to prevent it.
That said, I can't help feeling the decision to include this was based more on Media attention value than actual story-telling.
Re: Poster Claiming to be IW Dev Weighs in on MW2 Furor
Perhaps that "uneasy feeling" is exactly what you're supposed to feel. You're supposed to feel helpless. You have to stand there and not blow your cover while you watch innocent civilians get massacred. That would be such a massive blow to your head, emotionally/mentally, akin to the first time watching/playing..."That one scene that I don't want to spoil in CoD 4 called Shock and Awe." It's probably close to that, a pointless (gameplay-wise) yet emotional "cutscene" of sorts, that shows a lot of "wtf!" It was Shock and Awe that sealed that game's campaign for me, that scene gave me goosebumps the first time I played it. It honestly scared me. For one of the first times in a game, I got put into his shoes. Hearing the little kid sounds when looking at that playground...It was like the big-nuke-playground-wtf-fence-fire-explosion-moment in Terminator, except times 1000.
That's just my theory, I hope that's the route they're going. Without moments that make you almost puke/cry/feel scared/feel like crap at the reality of terrorism and nuclear explosions and war, it literally becomes just a killing game. Infinity Ward has always been good at giving the moments that make it feel more real, more scary, getting closer to the reality of it than any other shooter.
-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-